Topic: TOS Constitution Version 3 Done! Uploaded

[TheStressPuppy]

After 3 months of work, relentless reference research, gallons of coffee, trashing, and rebuilding parts of the model, I finally got her close to where i want her. Not perfect, not 100% accurate, but the best i can pull off within its poly count which stands at 4016. with another 60, or so polys i can mesh in the bussard restraining clamps.

I still have yet to weather the textures, but all the basics are done. Ive made the templates for the blank textures so you can do your own registrys, which i will provide the proper font for. Im gonna do textures for the original 12 "canon" starships to be included with the initial release of the model. While the initial release model will be in its "clean fresh outta spacedock" format, The "Weathered hull" texture set will be released shortly afterward. then after a while the "Renaissance Project" texture set will follow.

For those that dont know what the Renaissance Project is. It is a reworking of the TOS,TAS, and Franz Joseph designs to add Visuals, and the FX of the Movies, TNG, and ENT bringing these designs in proper liniage with the rest of the Trek series. Aztecs, Thrusters, self illumination, Warp Glows, Deflector glows, visable torpedo tubes, and phaser emmiters are a part of it. There will be slight design enhancements done with the unofficial semi-canon works of franz joseph, and SFB. While some purist are against the idea of altering TOS ships, i think its time to bring these designs up to the 23rd century standards. Of course there will still be classic ships made.

Enough babbling, heres some screens





This should make a nice desktop
Desktop Render


Edit: 12/16/04

Shes all done, and uploaded. I didnt do registrys for all 12 ships. I did 6 of them. I dont have the time to do all 12.
Its a 9 meg file, It has the blank textures and Hull font along with templates and some nice long readmes.
This version only works in SFC 2, and Orion Pirates.

TOS Constitution v3 "Ludicrus" pack
Right click the link and save as. ftp is acting wierd.

[markyd]

Stunning 

That is one mighty fine piece of work.... very very nice dude 

[Khalee002]

Yes its very nice and it dont need weatherd just releace it now.

[Chris Johnson]

I think you should allow to do what TSP wants rather than object to it and express your impatience.  TSP is doing a wonderful job that had turned out from extreme patience, and I think we all should applaude him for what he's doing for the community.

[S33K100]

As long as he puts the torpedoe launchers where they actually are on TOS (i.e. underside of the saucer, near wherever the 2 phaser hardpoints go - LS's connie has the best weapon placement I've seen at the moment). Looks great TSP, when you do the other versions (TAS, FJ and whatever else) are you going to do the AMT version, it is technically more canon than the FJ version as it was actually seen as a ship onscreen (the USS Constellation) while the FJ version only got shown as a schematic in the background in Space Seed IIRC.

[dragoon]

Dragoon weeps...is that going into Nexus?

[TheStressPuppy]

Yup its going into the Nexus: Ages of War mod. That is the primary game im building this ship (and others) for. of course SFC/BC benefits cause the models can easily convert over with little change.

The "Renaissance Project" connie will have the main phasers and torpedo launcher at their canon locations. Iits non-canon hardpoint placement will be based on the TMP connie. It will have the standard SFB 6 phaser saucer layout. The left/right side phasers will be on the top saucer. 1 phaser bank (2 emmiters) will be on the dorsal area , and 1 aft bank above the shuttle bay

the initial release will be in its "Clean config" after i finish the 12 "official" registrys based on the FJ manual. There are contradictory sources for the ship reg's, and the only "Canon" reg we saw was the constellation. While we know the names of other ships we never saw the reg numbers. Im going by the FJ manual becuse its the only "semi-official" source flawed as it is.

Speaking of which here she is again as the "USS HOOD" The FJ manual list her as NCC-1707, while DITL, and Ex Scientia list her as 1703. The SFB cover art for the scenario "the mighty hood" list her as 1704. all 3 of the latter i dont consider reliable sources as my friends would say im a "reference nazi". I am going by FJ cause thats the closest to "official" as we can get. as i said earlier, we never saw, or heard of any canon sources for the original 12's reg numbers with the exception of the constellation. so your guess is as good as mine on what they really are.

[Rhaz]

These are simply awesome

 

I think the Renaissance Project sounds neat.  Will you bo doing other designs (destroyers, light cruisers, etc) or just heavy cruiser varients?

Rhaz

[Tus-XC]

can you attach the pics?  i can't access ur host site...

[TheStressPuppy]

can you attach the pics?  i can't access ur host site...

You cant see the pics?!

Anyways my site is www.trekmods.com  I dont have any pics of her up there yet, because she isnt finished. im showing this exclusivly on the forums as a WIP. Im gonna set up my own site for the "Ren-Project" as soon as i get time and re-learn html.

[FoaS_XC]

Actually, you might want to look at the episode "Court Martial" where kirk is in the spacedock room, there is a list of ships with reg numbers..i dont know if the Hood is listed, but it might...

[Chris Johnson]

Speaking of which here she is again as the "USS HOOD" The FJ manual list her as NCC-1707, while DITL, and Ex Scientia list her as 1703. The SFB cover art for the scenario "the mighty hood" list her as 1704. all 3 of the latter i dont consider reliable sources as my friends would say im a "reference nazi". I am going by FJ cause thats the closest to "official" as we can get.

Are you certain?  Haven't you ever browsed Ex-Astris Scientia ever?  That's as close as canon as anyone can get with that website, considering all the articles on all kinds of stuff... Besides, 1707 might not be the official registry number, and you might still get that wrong anyway.  You can't get everything right... *shrug* Oh well.  Maybe that "Court Martial" episode featuring aforementioned chart of Constitution-class Starships might settle it once and for all.  I forgot where to look... *shrug*

Edit: Here it is:


(Taken from Ex-Astris Scientia)

As you can tell from the pic, it only shows the registry numbers, so that's not reliable for comparing names and registry numbers, aside from identifying NCC 1701 with our beloved Enterprise.

[USS Mariner]

Chris, sorry to break it, but that wall chart is not made up of Connies (except for the 1701 ofcourse.) Jein only ass-u-med they were for the sake of appeasing some unknown "logic" he was using to attach names and registries. Those ships are probably anything you want them to be.

As for the canon "12" Constitutions, I think this could (in theory) alow a few more Connies than most people think, as not only was the USS Constellation an earlier (and much different AMT model) Mark IX Heavy Cruiser (probably Mk. IX/01 if you want to go into technicalities,) but our bevloved captain might have been reffering to only active service vessels, and not any of the destroyed or otherwise missing ships.

Take note of the fact that the USS Defiant is reported to have the registry NCC-1764, as per the "original" (and unseen) TOS Connie listing, which may indicate that someone had converted a Bismarck hull to Heavy Cruiser duty midway in the consturction process. For what ever reason, it's systems might be a bit different, as with other ships we don't know lots about. Also, if the USS Constellation was some kind of early model Connie, there must be a similar NX-1000 Constitution in the past too, because both ship types are considered "Constitution Class," after the lead ship.

These and other factors could potentially inflate the number of known Connies to almost 20 or more (which I actually prefer because 12 is simply rediculously small for a true starfleet.) Just consider this when you all go to make custom registries. Oh yeah, TSP, would you be kind enough to release the actual TOS font (the "true" model font, not Amarillo USAF as was used on Greg Jein's DS9 version and the 2000 restoration,) of both the First/Second and Series versions (the two pilots have different 1's,7's,E's,F's, and Z's than the series version.)

And as for weapons, I suggest you all look here.

http://atrahasis.proboards25.com/index.cgi?board=models&action=display&num=1101886521&start=0

[FoaS_XC]

as i have always said, Star Trek is like two things: american religion and a salad bar...take what you want and leave the rest.

[USS Mariner]

as i have always said, Star Trek is like two things: american religion and a salad bar...take what you want and leave the rest.

That's very true. But I just felt like posting.

[TheStressPuppy]

I have seen all of the list from Franz Joseph, Ex Astris Scientia,  DITL, Etc, Etc.  Im a Reference Nazi remember? All of these list are different with the exceptions of 1700 1701, and 1017. I wrote a nice little editorial about this in my readme.  I went with the Franz Joseph list for my series of 12. The reason i did was because his was the only souce endorced by gene at one point in time. end of story.

The ready room list only proves those registry numbers are canon. it would have helped if names were matched up with it.

We could debate over what registry goes with what ship till doomsday. The plain simple fact is we do not know what registry goes with what ship, because we never saw any associations other than the 3 previously mentioned. All of these list are conjecture. Its basicly up to you to decide which registry you like on what ship.

If you havnt read my previous post i did say i am providing Blank Textures, The Proper Hull Font, and Detailed Tutorials on how to use it.

The Torpedoes and Phasers will fire from the lower sensor dome area (the canon location).  I dont agree with that layout on the atra board for the rest of the weapons with the exception of the side phasers.  Here are my thoughts...  The standard 6 phasers on the saucer with the foward arc phasers firing from the canon spot. the 4 side firing banks (2 left 2 right) should be on the top saucer like how most of us done it.  A 360 bank firing from the dorsal area similar to where the TMP ships banks are located.  A rear arc  bank fring from the "dome area" of the shuttle bay similar to where the TMP ship has its shuttle area phasers.  These are just ideas of where to place the emmiters on the model itself. You can arm the ship with whatever weapons you like. Im just building the model.

Can someone refresh my memory of what SFC hardpoints are associated with what weapons? this will help me in placement of the HP's  Its been a long time since ive done anything for SFC. Is SFC 3 scaling the same as SFC1/2?

[Rogue]

Can someone refresh my memory of what SFC hardpoints are associated with what weapons? this will help me in placement of the HP's  Its been a long time since ive done anything for SFC. Is SFC 3 scaling the same as SFC1/2?

From what I can tell from ShipEdit...

Heavy Weapons hardpoints 1 & 2 account for the FA photons
Heavy Weapons hardpoint  7 is the placement for drone/missiles
Heavy Weapons hardpoint 3 is for ADD placement
Weapon hardpoint 11 for the the saucer FH phasers
Weapon hardpoint 12 for the saucer FRRX phasers
Weapon hardpoint 13 for the saucer FLLX phaser
Weapon hardpoint 16 has been used for RA,RH or 360 phasers arc
Weapon hardpoint 17 usually for 360 degree phaser arc but a couple of RH designations observed

Heavy Weapon points 4 & 8 are available to the interface but I've found no Fed heavy cruiser layout that uses them after a quick look-see.

As for model scales... I think they kept changing that from the original SFC to EAW/OP and again in SFCIII. I think that each of them increased the size of the models. I bet Wicked Zombie can quote the scales if I cannot.

[TheStressPuppy]

Thank you Rogue,

Until i get a better idea of what scale this is for SFC 3, or if Darkdrone wants to import this for me.  ill just release an SFC 2/OP model.

I didn't do a break model for her yet. I know how to do them now, I just didn't have the time to do it.  ill release a break, and an SFC 3 version in an update.  I re textured the Version 2 break model to use as a placeholder.

For just 1 ship this is turning into a Major project lol.

Speaking of the version 2 model..... I don't know who's in charge of uploading models here, but they have mistakingly labled one of my version 2 models as "Version 3"  (the "canon" Connie). It is still the same old version 2 model with a different texture. It wont matter once this version is released, because this version 3 will make the version 2 model obsolete. I just thought i would make you aware.

Edit,  The model font i have only has a different "R" for the Pilot, and Series version of the ship.  The Amirillo USAF font is close, but not close enough. The true name of the font is "Modified Vertical Block" Those of you that were in the military should be very familiar with this, especilally those in aircraft maintanace.

If you can be kind enough to find  reference for these pilot series letters i can update the font accordingly.

[Rogue]

Only too happy to help, SP. This is a mighty impressive Constitution you are crafting which I hope says a lot about how good it is. It's a tall order to set a new standard on this model but you might have just done it. Congratulations.

Please overlook my bringing this up at this stage of development but I thought it relevent. The recommended computer specs to run SFC, Orion Pirates is a Pentium II 350 with acceleration and 64 Meg of RAM and DirectX 7. So if you were pondering bumping your Polly limit by a modest amount this could be the reason to do it. Nowdays even the most modest of laptops far exceeds that. Only you would know if there were parts of the mesh that you would have liked to have spent a few more pollies on. 4016 pollies is a great achievement but you could go hog wild with a 10% bump on the limit. Of course, this is entirely at your pleasure. I, for one, am perfectly content to wait for you to be happy it. But above all other things... make sure you are having fun with making it. No fun equals no point.

[USS Mariner]

Thank you Rogue,

Until i get a better idea of what scale this is for SFC 3, or if Darkdrone wants to import this for me.  ill just release an SFC 2/OP model.

I didn't do a break model for her yet. I know how to do them now, I just didn't have the time to do it.  ill release a break, and an SFC 3 version in an update.  I re textured the Version 2 break model to use as a placeholder.

For just 1 ship this is turning into a Major project lol.

Speaking of the version 2 model..... I don't know who's in charge of uploading models here, but they have mistakingly labled one of my version 2 models as "Version 3"  (the "canon" Connie). It is still the same old version 2 model with a different texture. It wont matter once this version is released, because this version 3 will make the version 2 model obsolete. I just thought i would make you aware.

Edit,  The model font i have only has a different "R" for the Pilot, and Series version of the ship.  The Amirillo USAF font is close, but not close enough. The true name of the font is "Modified Vertical Block" Those of you that were in the military should be very familiar with this, especilally those in aircraft maintanace.

If you can be kind enough to find  reference for these pilot series letters i can update the font accordingly.

This forum has great references for the TOS Enterprise Variants.
http://www.starshipbuilder.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000001.html

[Rod ONeal]

You might consider putting HPs 3 and 4 also in the FA-photon location for us nutters that like to split the photons so we can overload/proximity/standard load our photons to our heart's content. 

[TheStressPuppy]

I am just placing the hardpoints on the model, Im not gonna arm the ship, or even give it any specs other than the default SFC FCA specs. Im gonna leave it up to you how it should be armed. I will also take a look at chris jones's TOS mod to see if anything is any different as far as hardpoint arrangment of the various TOS connies in that mod. Ether way she will have only default specs just to get her in game.

[TheStressPuppy]

Here are the 1st in game test shots of the U.S.S. "No-Name" This is in SFC: Orion Pirates. Sorry for the lack of FSAA. I cant seem to get it working right for SFC-OP, but it works for all my other games...strange.

The Original is Back!


Back View


Extreme close up.  the details came out nice, but they didnt render out as dark as i thought, ill remedy this later along with the smoothing error on the top impulse.


I caught this shot of her firing the ventral 360's. I spec'ed her as the CC+ to test the hardpoint arrangement.


No doubt these are the main phasers firing from the canon location. The torpedoes fire from the same spot, but i couldnt get a good shot. Its tough trying to catch the weapons fire.


Another shot of the main phaser firing.

[TheStressPuppy]

These will be the last in game shots i post of the "Clean" version before i release her. I still need to make a break model for her

Here she is in all her old glory, The Enterprise. doing what she did best...Kicking Klingon ass




I fixed most of the in game issues, mainly the smoothing errors, and darkend up some of the details to make it stand out better in game.
gimme a few weeks to do up a break for her, and shell be all yours.

[Don Karnage]

i was wondering what is the yellow spot under the hull of the constitution class and other fed tos ship?

[Chris Jones]

Stress!

When I update Universe At War, i'd like to use these variants.   May I please?   

 - Chris

[Rogue]

If you hear TOS music and sound effects playing in your head when looking at this model, is that a positive indication of a successful Constitution?

I think it is!

[TheStressPuppy]

Chris feel free to use her. Thats why im building her so people can enjoy it

I made a basic break mod for her, nothing  too fancy, but she looks good blowing up in game and thats what counts.

once i finish up my reg's ill find a way to upload her.

[Sandman3D]

DAMN!!!!!!!!!

[E_Look]

*goosebumps!*

[TheStressPuppy]

Shes done and uploaded. Link is on bottom of the 1st post in this thread. The file extracts to 80 plus megs, but i compressed her down to a 9 meg RAR file   Make sure you Right click the link, and save as, because it will try to open in your browser if you don't.
I don't know why it does that. I'm gonna get with the webmaster at trekmods to see if he can fix it.

I was gonna call it a "Mega"pack, but Mega is too small..call this the "Ludicrous" pack!

I wasn't able to do all the registry's i wanted to do. i got 6 of em done. I did include
1) Blanks for the USS No Name
2) The Enterprise, Constellation, Farragut, Exeter, Lexington, and Excalibur
3) the Hull Font, Template PSD's and quick n dirty instructions.
4) Most important the model itself

This will only work for SFC2/OP  I'm working on SFC1, and 3 versions ill post them later

Enjoy

[Rat Boy]

Neato!  When can we see some of the Renaissance stuff?


Edit: Just read all that documentation, yikes.  When do you find the time to write all that out?  One little addendum you should add, though, the Ex Astris list is derived from the various editions of the Star Trek Encyclopedias.  That list was compiled by senior illustrator Mike Okuda, matching up diagrams from TOS and Star Trek VI to names of starships mentioned in the episodes of the show.

[TheStressPuppy]

Ok, i have no evidence of that list, but ill double check the site. As far as anyone knows there is no audio, or visual reference in the show matching any names to any reg numbers, and the encyclopedias are more, or less fan fiction where non-canon stuff is involved. I just provided the list's for comparison. As i said in the doc's its basicly up to you what you want to use.

The Renaissaunce Project stuff will be in work very soon. I am studying ideas, and looking over both the TMP 1701, and the NX-01. for inspiration.

Before i start on that I still have to do the "Dirty" version of the connie 1st. The dirty texture set will be PSD's that you copy the "dirt"  layer over to the existing textures. Gimme a few weeks b4 they r done.

[Rod ONeal]

Thanks TSP. Great job. I love all of the extra work that you did supplying all of the extras. Well conceived for a beauty such as this. My hat's off to you, man.  Time to shower "The Stress Puppy" with some posi-karma.

Supplying the "weathering" as a seperate layer is a very cool idea, BTW.

[Dawntreader]

Just downloaded and viewed this model.  It is PERFECT!  The BEST model of this classic ship I have EVER SEEN.  I am almost afraid to use it it is so perfect.
 
 

[Don Karnage]

the best tos constitution i have see is made by: lordschtupp, it got the phaser on the saucer, under the hull and the read phase neer the shuttlebay.

[USS Mariner]

the best tos constitution i have see is made by: lordschtupp, it got the phaser on the saucer, under the hull and the read phase neer the shuttlebay.

But TSP is working on a version with similar "tweaks," and this is far more structurally accurate.

This is just the first run "classic series" model. For those old fogies who don't like no fancy contraptions of their hulls.

[Don Karnage]

also stp should make a old tos constitution, like a prototype for the know look of the constitution, and maybe some variant of the constitution since the ship did have more change during the use of the constitution class (not just the enterprise), one that shoot the torpedo from under the saucer insted of undr the bridge.

[TheStressPuppy]

Don, What u just said made absolutly no sense. Can u clarify? You mean like a 1st pilot version? If so, I already planned on making it. I have other prioritys at the moment.

Captain Kirk, Your ship is FILTHY!...Go wash it NOW!



1st test of the weathering psd's, i may tone it down some cause right now its looking more like the smithsonian model than the trial and tribbulation model.

Im gonna post a texture update soon, i just realized i left a marking off the ship (the marking in back of the bridge superstructure)

[IndyShark]

This is very cool. It looks like something you would see in a movie!

[TheStressPuppy]

No, The one u would see in a movie is in work

[Lord Schtupp]

wow Easily the most awesome connie model ever, thats looking pretty close to 100% accurate to me. Excellent work. It looks like you put 3 months into it Spup

[USS Mariner]

Holy crap. The weathering looks pretty good actually, since most of it would be blurred out by the film cameras of the sixties.

BTW, did you get my private message?

[Rod ONeal]

I agree that it's a bit much, too. It makes it look like it's got a "fabric" skin like what they used to put on airplanes before they went to metal.

[TheStressPuppy]

lol u got a point there, tho modern naval ships are built in a similar mannor to aircraft (metal is welded and/or rivited onto the framework insted of fabric) If you look at an aircraft carrier up close you can see the raised areas where the framework is. So i suspect there would be some raised areas where the skin of a starship meets the frame. tho who knows what construction techniques are used in the future.

[markyd]

Yep it doesnt get mutch better than this does it?? 

[Lord Schtupp]

The joints where two adjacent panels meet cause close-in boundary layer turbulence in that area resulting in exactly the weathering pattern that spup depicts on his Connie.

[Don Karnage]

Don, What u just said made absolutly no sense. Can u clarify? You mean like a 1st pilot version? If so, I already planned on making it. I have other prioritys at the moment.

Captain Kirk, Your ship is FILTHY!...Go wash it NOW!



1st test of the weathering psd's, i may tone it down some cause right now its looking more like the smithsonian model than the trial and tribbulation model.

Im gonna post a texture update soon, i just realized i left a marking off the ship (the marking in back of the bridge superstructure)

look at this page: http://www.starfleet-museum.org/pyotr-velikiy.htm, you can see 2 constitution class, the prototype and the one build, look the the bridge and you will see what i mean, or i can send you the model so you can see it closely, also one with the antena at the tipe of the warp engine, i know that atra have made ship like that, what i do mean is change the constitution class have received, visible one like the torpedo are fire from under the saucer insted of under the bridge, not like in the movie.

[TheStressPuppy]

Yes, Those are known as the 1st pilot versions as seen in "The Cage", and "Where no man has gone before".  I do plan on making ships in that configuration. Just not at the moment because i have alot on my plate as it is now.  dirty textures almost done, and the file at battle clinic will be reuploaded soon. The Renaissaunce version is started. Plus im working on a joint Trekmods/=DU= project for Nexus: The Jupiter Incident covering all the eras of trek.

Edit: the Weathering textures are finished. An add-on file has been uploaded at Battleclinic, and the Trekmods file has been updated.

[Don Karnage]

there no rush, just wondering if you knew of the other variant of the constitution class, so what is this Weathering textures and the dirty textures??

[TheStressPuppy]

Dirty/Weathering= same thing. An Add-on set i made to make it look more like the trials, and Tribbulations version.

[Lord Schtupp]

Allow me to sing a couple more verses of praise:

I wanted to point out how outstanding the brussard texture is, it really looks like a semi-transparent dome and the color is perfect. Mine look like cartoons by comparison.

Another is the bridge/b/c deck structure; a very difficult part to get the shape just right and SPup you nailed it.

Just a couple of fine points on a totally outstanding model.

[Don Karnage]

ls in your post you show a ship with the experimental tos engine, do you have it?

[Captain Pierce]

http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163349955.0.html 

[zerosnark]

Thanks for the link!

[Pestalence_XC]

Stress.. as a reference junkie myself.. here is what I found for Canon references in my TOS collection on DVD...

U.S.S. Constellation NCC-1017 TOS "The Doomsday Machine"

U.S.S. Constitution NCC-1700 (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial", Seen on Computer display TNG "DataLore", Seen on Computer display Star Trek III: The Search for Spock, TOS "Space Seed" (Medical Display panel in the infirmiry).

U.S.S. Defiant NCC-1764 TOS "The Tholian Web"

U.S.S. Enterprise NCC-1701 TOS All Episodes

U.S.S. Essex NCC-1697 (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial" Crossed with Paramount Studios

U.S.S. Excalibur NCC-1664 TOS "The Ultimate Computer", (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial"

U.S.S. Excelsior NCC-1718 (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial" Crossed with Paramount Studios

U.S.S. Exeter NCC-1672 TOS "The Omega Glory", (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial"

U.S.S. Farragut NCC-1647 TOS "Obsession"

U.S.S. Hood NCC-1703 TOS "The Ultimate Computer", (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial"

U.S.S. Intrepid NCC-1631 TOS "Court Martial", TOS "The Immunity Syndrome"

U.S.S. Kongo NCC-1710 Star Trek VI: The Undiscovered Country (Identified on a computer display panel and crossed with Paramount Studios).

U.S.S. Lexington NCC-1709 TOS "The Ultimate Computer", (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial", DS9 "Trials and Tribble-ations"

U.S.S. Potemkin NCC-1657 TOS "The Ultimate Computer", TOS "Turnabout Intruder"

U.S.S. Republic NCC-1731 (identified by wall status display) TOS "Court Martial" Crossed with Paramount Studios

U.S.S. Yorktown NCC-1717 TOS "Obsession"

[Captain Pierce]

This is pretty much the same list that Ex Astris has, presumably from the Encylopedia...  it has the (IMO) serious problem that fully half the Constitution class ships have registries lower than that of the Constitution...    There's really no indication in "Court Martial" that all those registries belong to Constitution-class ships--in fact, if there are only 12-13 Constitution-class ships in existence, I would personally find it highly unlikely that so many of them would be at the same Starbase at the same time.  Intrepid's there, we know that from dialogue (although I would question assigning it the NCC-1831 registry--since the Miranda-class Lantree was 1837, wouldn't 1831 be better left alone?); and there are other registries that I would consider to be Constitutions, but I just can't bring myself to believe that they were ALL at the same place at the same time...

[darkthunder]

The USS Constitution NCC-1700 was the first Constitution Class. Unless there was a USS Constitution before the commissioning of the Constitution Class that I am unaware of.

First ship of the class tends to be named the same as the class.

USS Intrepid, Intrepid-Class
USS Galaxy, Galaxy-Class
USS Defiant, Defiant-Class

etc.

Of course, this does not rule out the possibility of other ships being called Intrepid, Galaxy or Defiant. In fact, in the three examples I stated above, at least 2 ships have been seen in TOS but as different classes then what they are most known for. USS Defiant, I believe was a Constitution Class or a variant of her.

In the case of the USS Constellation, they screwed up bigtime giving it a lower registry then that of the USS Constitution. Throughout the Trek timeline, it has been common practice that the first ship of the class be called the same as the class name. Thus, the belief by some people that the USS Enterprise refit from The Motion Picture, was a Enterprise-Class. Most likely other ships in this era also were refitted and they kept the classname of Constitution Class.

[TheStressPuppy]

Plus in "Court Marshal" we only saw the registry numbers. Not a single name was associated with them. I appreciate the enthusiasim, but we are just gonna have to accept the plain simple fact that there is no reference linking names with numbers .

[Lord Schtupp]

I like FJs list for "The Twelve" , the number grouping makes sense. I really cant see all those ships in the court martial list being only connies.

[Chris Johnson]

Just a question... Why just go for absolute canon all the time?  Canon information can be a mixed bag at times, from starship specs and design evolution to Earth's very own History.  Everyone can compare the NX-01 to her twenty-fourth century counterpart the Akira-class Starship, and then compare with another 22nd-century Earth vessel, the Daedelus and see how cheesy and primitive it looks in comparison to the more-developed NX-01.  It may even be a newer design rather than the simple sphere and cylindrical hull later on in the series. 
As for history, first contact with Romulans came first in canon, then Klingons in the early-23rd century.  Then came Enterprise, where Klingons were found in 2151 rather than 2218, and how cloaking devices were commonly seen yet is a suprise in "Balance of Terror" (TOS) to Kirk and crew when they found the more-primitive-looking Romulan ship appear and disappear with their uncloak-attack-cloak manuvering.

My point is that canon information is a mixed bag as I said before.  You don't know what to trust: The previously-established canon or the newly-established canon?  Do we trust Worf's knowledge of Earth weapons development and disreguard the NX-01 completely due to its Phaser and Photon weaponry?  Or do we say that Worf was wrong all along when he said "There are no phasers in the twenty-second century." in "A Matter of Time" (TNG)?  What is transwarp, really?  Infinate speed from point A to point B or just another Slip Stream-esque conduit as if it came from Stargate or Babylon 5? 

We do take canon info a lot, but shouldn't we spit out some things we chew?

[Pestalence_XC]

B and B did not like Gene Roddenberry's dream for Trek.. they want ratings and in the process they are destroying the Trek series from the inside out with the fans... Enterprise as a series, if you think about it as an alternate universe or even the mirror universe, then it is great... otherwise, if you look at it in the Trek timelike most of us who watched TOS in the beginning.. Enterprise is a disgrace to the Trek franchise period...

Gene Roddenberry stated.. if it is on the big screen or on TV, it is canon.. and if someone puts something on screen that contradicts a previous episode.. the the Oldest episode is canon since the script writers couldn't do their job in researching older scripts...

as such, TOS canon takes precidence.. then TNG then DS9 then Voyager, then Ent.. since Ent is nothing but contradiction of established canon.. it must be an alternate universe or even the mirror universe if it intends to claim itself as a Trek production...

[Captain Pierce]

B and B did not like Gene Roddenberry's dream for Trek.. they want ratings and in the process they are destroying the Trek series from the inside out with the fans...

And yet they signed off on the Encyclopedia that has the same registries that you're quoting at us as "canon."

Gene Roddenberry stated.. if it is on the big screen or on TV, it is canon

Unless it's the Animated Series... 

[USS Mariner]

B and B did not like Gene Roddenberry's dream for Trek.. they want ratings and in the process they are destroying the Trek series from the inside out with the fans... Enterprise as a series, if you think about it as an alternate universe or even the mirror universe, then it is great... otherwise, if you look at it in the Trek timelike most of us who watched TOS in the beginning.. Enterprise is a disgrace to the Trek franchise period...

Gene Roddenberry stated.. if it is on the big screen or on TV, it is canon.. and if someone puts something on screen that contradicts a previous episode.. the the Oldest episode is canon since the script writers couldn't do their job in researching older scripts...

as such, TOS canon takes precidence.. then TNG then DS9 then Voyager, then Ent.. since Ent is nothing but contradiction of established canon.. it must be an alternate universe or even the mirror universe if it intends to claim itself as a Trek production...

So that means that Kirk really works for the UESPA, and all later episodes are wrong? Just be careful how that could be intrepreted, because it can come back to bite you in the ass. I've had it do that to me several times. Ouch!

Anyway, funny you should mention the Mirror Universe, as ENT is actually going to have a Mirror Universe episode (totally Mirror Universe from Manny's interviews) by the end of the season. Isn't Coto...creative.

Basically, I take ENT into what I term as "slective canon," as in acknowledge the exsistence of Archer, the NX-01 (it's exsistence, not all of it's design features ), and Earth Starfleet and the Vulcans, Andorians etc. But, I leave out all the bullsh*t that's cropped up, from Season 1 onward (yes, even the "beloved" Season 4, the season where Manny rewrites TOS scripts out the wazoo, and makes up insane garbage like "The Augments" by cutting and pasting different shows and movies together...) This way, I can have the Eugenics Wars and the DY-100 either before or as WWIII, and everybody else can keep eating the reprocessed garbage from VOY and ENT...

[Chris Johnson]

I think canon is overhyped most of the time.  Whilst I took most canonical info into consideration, I spitted out a big huge chunk of the more-recent stuff, and may spit out even more.  I don't know how to say this, but let's face it: We overhype our interest in Trek too much, so much so in fact that sometimes I feel some stuff are being dissed and shunned because it's not canon.  We all envision Trek differently, so our views clash.  Some like it for the space ships and kitbashing their own fancy good looking ships.  Some like it for what it was by heart, especially as what Gene wanted it to be.  Lets take some ship envisionment for example:  Whilst I like the Constitution-class, I figured it was made in the 2240s, not the 2210s.  Atrahasis would disagree and counter with his view.  We all have a view that is right in our own heads, but we must respect the opinions of others.  Like how people think DS9 is better because of all the space action, and believe the Sovereign-class is best because of how cool-looking it is and how it's armed to the teeth.  I respect that, but I think TOS or TNG was better due to Gene's influence and visions of both series.

Maybe it's just me, but my point is sometimes I feel some openly-expressed views on Trek can get shunned for the most rediculous reasons, and I just think if it is due to canon policy being popular, then why not shun canon and have our own views of Trek? 

(Also, keep in mind I may have not worded what I wanted to say exactly, but consider this close enough.)

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Very nicely done indeed 

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

I would take the Animated Series as more 'canon' than the Enterprise series. With any luch, some weird time anomaly will occur at the end of the series that renders everything in the series as part of some other timeline. Although, the Eugenics Wars were also very notably missing from Voyager as well, contradicting not just TOS but STII as well. It could be argued that the Eugenics Wars were not in the part of the world that Janeway and crew visited at the time though.

[Age]

   Well this OT so I will but what I said back in and that is I think it would have been better to have Shatner, Nimoy and Majel as Producer of Trek instead of B&B look at what they have done to Trek.I watch Enterprise only for it being scfi and entertianment put it all side Andromeda and look out.What is with Janeway in this anyway and the best out of the TNG series I like is DS9 ?

[TheStressPuppy]

 EDIT: After some thinking I regret some words i posted here so i deleted them and apologise to all.

[Chris Johnson]

TSP, I apologize for letting things get out of hand.  I think it's my fault things got this way.  In my opinion, whether it's canon or not about anything (at this moment) is silly stuff.  Star Trek is entertainment, although not mindless.  It serves to give us a world to play around with and think about, although arguing whether things are official or not can get silly, and I think it has gotten out of hand here.  For that, I apologize.  You've done wonders, TSP, and I feel really sorry for what's happened.

[TheStressPuppy]

Don't sweat it Chris I'm cool with you.

 My apologies for the rant above. I just think discussions like that should be taken out of a modellers work in progress thread, and posted ether in general discussion, or somewhere else. I guess I'm somewhat to blame too for posting a WIP in the general modeller board instead of the WIP board. I wont make that same mistake again.

 Where I'm going with this is that its not at all fair to the artist trying to display his, or her works for the community to see when discussions like the phantom "canon" registry's breaks out. It turns the thread into a farce. It also has the potential to start flame attacks. We do not need that.

I see now that a thread dedicated to the phantom registry's has been started. So i ask all who posted here please ether delete, or move your post over to that thread.  TIA

Again sorry for blowing my stack, but hey, I'm a Stress Puppy remember

[Pestalence_XC]

StressPuppy.. I posted it here because you stated you were a reference Nazi.. as such, since you were using multiple references, i went to the horses mouth for registries in order to help you get a valid listing... do I have all hull registries.. no.. Paramount doesn't even have that, but i did get the one's that they claim as canon and are canon per TOS episodes and maybe 1 or 2 from DS9 and TNG.. I agree with you that if the registry or ship was on screen, then it is canon.. as such, that is why I listed only canon TOS Connie's per TOS episodes and Paramount on the Registries for CA's without names on screen... My apologies if you think it was a hijack.. it was not.. it was a reference source for you to look in to since you were doing so much research in the TOS Connie hull.. IMHO it was totally relavant to the ship you released.. as such, I humbly apologize if you took my posting out of context.. if you wish, I will edit this thread and remove all postings from mine on hull registries on downward.. it was not meant to be a bash or a hijack.. just a reference source on hull registries as canonized by Paramount and TOS films. It was an attempt to help you out. again my apologies. If you need canon references, i can contact Paramount and get the screen writes which contains all the hull registries and ship names (if written for the episode) directly from them as a pure canon reference. all I was doing was trying to give you a little help since people argued over hull registry classification in your first 2 threads. I posted this a long time ago about hull classification.. as seen on the back wall next to the turbolift is the dedication plaque for the Enterprise.. it is not a Constitution class.. that is FJ's classification (Non Canon) as such the misconception that all hull registries for the CA should be NCC-17**.. in reality the ship is classified as a "Starship Class" Spaceship as it was so described in "The Cage". The ships were given classification according to Duty Role and not First of Line. This explains why a lot of the TOS canon registries for the CA's were below NCC-17**.. The Constitution may not have been the first ship of the line, but instead it may have had more fame than a lot of TOS CA's. maybe even more than the Enterprise.. as such, the hull line was honorably nicknamed "Constitution Class" by FJ, fans and TNG, however the "Starship Class" Spaceship is the canon reference for the CA hull as seen on screen in almost every on ship episode of TOS. Also if you look into the History of the CA Hull with Gene's notes and Paramount.. the "12" as people call them are the first 12 ships to be assigned a 5 year mission in deep space.. it does not mean that only 12 were built... out of the 12 that went to Deep Space, the U.S.S. Enterprise was the first Starship to return that completed the mission (maybe not the only to return). Again I apologize for making you think it was a hijack.. it was just an attempt to give help.

[Lord Schtupp]

I certainly would not have participated in a thread that I thought was meandering pointlessly.