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Offline Sandman3D

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DY-500 WIP
« on: December 08, 2004, 06:50:27 pm »
Well, been playin' with this for awhile, just a good coat of paint and she's done. Comes in at 6232 polies, but hopefully I'll be able to cut that down. Let me know what you think...
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2004, 09:26:50 am »
Cool ship- and not too far off from whay we could build now, if we could get all the issues on plante Earth straightened out first.

Questions:

1.) Is that a regular rocket engine in the rear, or is it one of the 'nuclear rockets' that are occasionally proposed?

2.) Are the fins just a design conciet, or are they supposed to be functional in some way, i.e. for deploying solar pannels?

I like it, and I can't wait to see it ready to fly!
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Offline S33K100

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2004, 09:49:57 am »
No one really knows but this ship was apparently an early warp capable colony ship of sorts, IIRC it was the ship of the colonists in that early TNG episode, one half of the colony were, erm, 'rustic' irish famers basically. The other half had become sophisticated high society clones, they only had 4 survivors when they crashed so had to resort to cloning to survive. The schematic of this was a rip-off of the DY-100 that Khan used to escape earth and the similarities in the design really don't reflect the supposed tech difference in the two ships - why would the warp engines look like conventional booster rockets for example? Still a nice design that at least showed some TOS continuity on TNG.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #3 on: December 12, 2004, 10:00:22 am »
Quote from: Marauth on December 12, 2004, 09:49:57 am
No one really knows but this ship was apparently an early warp capable colony ship of sorts, IIRC it was the ship of the colonists in that early TNG episode, one half of the colony were, erm, 'rustic' irish famers basically. The other half had become sophisticated high society clones, they only had 4 survivors when they crashed so had to resort to cloning to survive. The schematic of this was a rip-off of the DY-100 that Khan used to escape earth and the similarities in the design really don't reflect the supposed tech difference in the two ships - why would the warp engines look like conventional booster rockets for example? Still a nice design that at least showed some TOS continuity on TNG.

OK, I remember that eipsode- that's where Riker gets his 'feet washed' by the little Celtic hottie.

Thanks! I agree that the engine looks a little off, but if you think about the huge vessel as the actual reaction chamber and the little spheres as the anti-matter pods (with everything exposed for easy dumping in case of trouble) it COULD be made to fit the discription- and the nozzle at the end is just a conventional rocket engine for sublight propulsion.
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The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Sandman3D

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #4 on: December 12, 2004, 09:56:51 pm »
Well, EAS has it listed as a "Sleeper Ship", launched before Cochrane and Warp Drive, IIRC...on wifes puter, so don't have my files, :P....Anyway, I don't believe she is warp capable. The engines could be Ion Drive engines. :-\ Just thought about it, and it's on TNZ also, more "story" there. ;)
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Offline S33K100

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2004, 02:53:14 pm »
The DY-500 is obviously a further development of the DY-100. The ships are now equipped with warp drive.

From EAS, plus one of his 'comments' on the ship:

'2) At the time when the 2nd season TNG episode was produced, early spaceflight history was not yet screwed up to the degree as it is today. But even back then the tip of the hat to Khan's DY-100 was not fitting, considering that the DY-500 must have been a warp ship and that there are 120 years and several technical generations between the two ships. It is just not plausible that an early sublight freighter and a warp-driven colony ship look so much alike. But most of all I wonder why the DY-500 has no visible warp nacelles, as opposed to all other Earth warp ships.'

There is a whole series of conjectural DY- ships designed by some of the people over at Flare I think.

http://www.trekships.org/fleet_starfleet_1.gif

This fleet chart has them, along with all the SFM, some SFChronology and some ASDB ships. Oh and some TOS and TMP canon and Ent era ships. Notice the progresion they made to link the DY- series in with the SFM 'Bison' transports.
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If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline USS Mariner

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2004, 06:08:52 pm »
Quote from: Marauth on December 13, 2004, 02:53:14 pm
The DY-500 is obviously a further development of the DY-100. The ships are now equipped with warp drive.

From EAS, plus one of his 'comments' on the ship:

'2) At the time when the 2nd season TNG episode was produced, early spaceflight history was not yet screwed up to the degree as it is today. But even back then the tip of the hat to Khan's DY-100 was not fitting, considering that the DY-500 must have been a warp ship and that there are 120 years and several technical generations between the two ships. It is just not plausible that an early sublight freighter and a warp-driven colony ship look so much alike. But most of all I wonder why the DY-500 has no visible warp nacelles, as opposed to all other Earth warp ships.'

There is a whole series of conjectural DY- ships designed by some of the people over at Flare I think.

http://www.trekships.org/fleet_starfleet_1.gif

This fleet chart has them, along with all the SFM, some SFChronology and some ASDB ships. Oh and some TOS and TMP canon and Ent era ships. Notice the progresion they made to link the DY- series in with the SFM 'Bison' transports.


I always thought that Khan's DY-100 was always warp capable, because if one takes the 1990's "Dates" of the Eugneics Wars as years on the Indian Civial Calendar and then retranlate them into the Gregorian, 1996 ICC=2074 AD. Not only does this solve many things like how the Botany Bay got out that far and remain operational without some "divine intervention" at hand, but it also allows us to make peace with the dates of the Eugneics Wars and the real world. I say f**k the "sublight" crap McGyver gave us during the ep, because as Bernd said, early spaceflight is screwed up enough as it is, and TOS was the most inconsistent (ususally due to rushed production and the evolving state of the Trek world.)

Ofcourse, Manny Coto throws a monkey wrench into this theory with his blasphemous "The Augments" (the only Coto ep I LOATHE as much as the end of Zero Hour and Stormfront Pt. I,) and it's 1990's dating, but whatever.

As for where this warp engine would be, I'm, guessing the DY's have a central nacelle running in the centerline of the ship, with the nuclear reactor and chemical rockets at the very aft end of the ship, far from the radial containers and living/control spaces, etc.
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Offline S33K100

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2004, 07:06:44 pm »
Erm, no. ST already diverged from the real world back in the 60s when the US (in the ST world) already had a nuclear launch platform in space. It's fairly obvious ST is gonna have to take place in an alternate universe to the real one because if we take your idea then in 2074 when your date for the wars comes around all the ST fans will have to come up with a new excuse why it 'hasn't happened yet'. ::) The Eugenic's Wars happened before WWIII and so have to have happened before warp tech had been invented, ergo it had to have been sublight.
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If I determine the enemy's disposition of forces while I have no perceptible form, I can concentrate my forces while the enemy is fragmented. The pinnacle of military deployment approaches the formless: if it is formless, then the deepest spy cannot discern it, nor the wise make plans against it.

Sun Tzu 'The Art of War'.

S33K100: formerly Marauth

Offline USS Mariner

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2004, 07:52:14 pm »
Quote from: Marauth on December 13, 2004, 07:06:44 pm
Erm, no. ST already diverged from the real world back in the 60s when the US (in the ST world) already had a nuclear launch platform in space. It's fairly obvious ST is gonna have to take place in an alternate universe to the real one because if we take your idea then in 2074 when your date for the wars comes around all the ST fans will have to come up with a new excuse why it 'hasn't happened yet'. ::) The Eugenic's Wars happened before WWIII and so have to have happened before warp tech had been invented, ergo it had to have been sublight.

Oh, whoops, I forgot something while I was typing. I was supposed to be talking about the date of the Botany Bay's LAUCNHING, not the Eugenics Wars. *smacks head*

But, it's pointless to argue, as you apparently can't tell that having the Eugenics Wars in 1996 contradicts almost everything and every episode that comes after it. It was 1966 when they wrote that episode, still very far into the future. Even with the oribtal nuclear platform in their universe, that's no excuse to have a major world war going on before 1996 when Voyager went back in time, as there clearly was no reference or indication to it at all. It's only obvious if you look at TOS only, which has been contradicted many times later on (mostly a good thing, sometimes bad.) Aside from the blashphmeous dating references of "The Augments" (which could be intrepreted as something else, mind you,) the fact remains that up to the year 2004-5 and probably a bit later, our universes are supposed to be very similar. Although Coto did say early on that he would avoid going into the problem, he broke his word for "continuity's sake" and made it worse. Just a few lines and we wouldn't be arguing about this right now...

While your right about the 92' date then not making sense as the beginning of the war (only 2070, which is really wrong,) even making the date 1982 puts it as 2060, which is a bit better. Obviously this is stretching things a bit, but it's better than sticking the wars in the 2050's when there's no way they could've referenced that.

Ofcourse, there's absolutley no way of convincing you of any other possible explanation, so I'm going to do my homework and quit wasting my energy. I've considered ST tkaing place in an alternate universe too, but it simply can't be like that. Ofcourse, this is my theory, but I wrote that becuase that's what I thought dammit. There's probably no way were going to agree unless something is changed later in ENT (which it wont, trust me.) Are you a member of TrekBBS by any chance? :P

As for the ACTUAL reason I posted, the nose looks like it needs to be a bit more pointy Sandman. But still looking good for a start. :)
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Offline Sandman3D

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2004, 08:06:36 pm »
Quote from: Mariner Class on December 14, 2004, 07:52:14 pm

As for the ACTUAL reason I posted, the nose looks like it needs to be a bit more pointy Sandman. But still looking good for a start. :)
You're right, needs to be lengthened and pointier. ;)

As for all the above, what's it really matter? Continuity for me went out the window with ENT. :( Now, I just do 'em if I feel like doin' 'em. 8)
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #10 on: December 15, 2004, 04:17:30 am »
Da plane da plane........whooops that's from Fantasy Island  :P
Hey wait a sec........ ???
That show took place prior to 1996...........
the plane on that show had propelers.............
and Fantasy Island starred Ricardo Montalbom(sp)...............
Ricardo Montalbam starred as Khan..............
This is a model of Khans ship.................
Therefore.................. ??? ??? ???

Ummmm lost my train of thought here........Oh yeah does it really matter ? Warp or not ?
Based on my scientific analysis  :P Khan actually survived the explosion aboard the Reliant and was catapulted back in time where he decided to buy his own island and grant peoples wishes.
 :screwloose:

How's that for alternate reality !  :rofl:
Keep up the good work Sandman sir
 ;D :thumbsup:
-MP
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Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #11 on: December 15, 2004, 09:15:00 am »
.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:49:45 pm by Fallen_Warrior »
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Offline Sandman3D

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #12 on: December 15, 2004, 12:40:21 pm »
 :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Saki hell, sounds more like the effects of Ouzo (?)... :rofl: :rofl:
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Offline ModelsPlease

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #13 on: December 16, 2004, 04:37:43 am »
 :rofl: The scary thing is I was dead sober when I posted that.  :P
-MP
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Offline Fallen_Warrior

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #14 on: December 16, 2004, 07:35:50 am »
.
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:51:03 pm by Fallen_Warrior »
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Offline markyd

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #15 on: December 18, 2004, 11:32:30 am »
Looks good sandman  ;)
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Offline Captain Pierce

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2004, 08:42:40 pm »
Well, let me go crazy here...

People always wonder how so many ships from the pre-warp era made it way the hell out into the galaxy, which admittedly is a bit of a puzzler.  The way I see it, though, there's a possible explanation in (of all places) TMP.  Voyager 6 is explained to have fallen into a "time continuum" in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP; I seem to recall the line in the movie being something like "what they used to call a black hole."

What if this is some sort of unstable wormhole somewhere on the outskirts of the Solar System?  Voyager 6 got thrown all the way to the other side of the Galaxy (Delta Quadrant?  insert your own Borg tie-in here ;) ), but maybe Botany Bay (and the probe that got blasted by Commander Klaa in Trek V, was it one of the Pioneers?) just got a couple-of-hundred-light-year headstart on their trip from it...

Back to the topic of the DY-500, I've always thought that, given it's incredibly brief appearance on-screen, there's a certain amount of creative licence that could be taken with it, specifically in regards to warp engines.  That said, there doesn't seem to be a huge need to make them incredibly obvious, as Federation civilian ships seem to be notably lacking in that regard...  I'll offer into evidence the Batris, the Norkova, the Xhosa, and the rest of that kitbash family...  :p
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Offline USS Mariner

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2004, 11:16:35 pm »
Quote from: Captain Pierce on December 19, 2004, 08:42:40 pm
Well, let me go crazy here...

People always wonder how so many ships from the pre-warp era made it way the hell out into the galaxy, which admittedly is a bit of a puzzler.  The way I see it, though, there's a possible explanation in (of all places) TMP.  Voyager 6 is explained to have fallen into a "time continuum" in Roddenberry's novelization of TMP; I seem to recall the line in the movie being something like "what they used to call a black hole."

What if this is some sort of unstable wormhole somewhere on the outskirts of the Solar System?  Voyager 6 got thrown all the way to the other side of the Galaxy (Delta Quadrant?  insert your own Borg tie-in here ;) ), but maybe Botany Bay (and the probe that got blasted by Commander Klaa in Trek V, was it one of the Pioneers?) just got a couple-of-hundred-light-year headstart on their trip from it...

Back to the topic of the DY-500, I've always thought that, given it's incredibly brief appearance on-screen, there's a certain amount of creative licence that could be taken with it, specifically in regards to warp engines.  That said, there doesn't seem to be a huge need to make them incredibly obvious, as Federation civilian ships seem to be notably lacking in that regard...  I'll offer into evidence the Batris, the Norkova, the Xhosa, and the rest of that kitbash family...  :p

Eh, stuff like that, while totally possible given Trek's history, just doesn't sit right with me. I'd rather retconn the dates of Space Seed so that the Eugenics Wars preceed WWIII, but the DY-100 can exsist in 2074 and have a basic "almost-warp" engine. Just makes more sense to me than the schizophrenic "totally alternate universe" with "Superman in 96'" and the like. But fans tend to pick and choose their posion when stuff like this is brought up, so meh. Sorry 'bout the blowout there Marauth. :)
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Offline Raventree

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #18 on: December 20, 2004, 12:34:13 am »
Well, in my humble opinion.... :police:
It's a TV Show....quite enjoyable and fun also makes one think of things every now and again....
but it's still a TV show.... :screwloose:
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Offline Rat Boy

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Re: DY-500 WIP
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2005, 02:26:25 pm »
Quote from: J. Carney on December 12, 2004, 09:26:50 am
1.) Is that a regular rocket engine in the rear, or is it one of the 'nuclear rockets' that are occasionally proposed?


Well, if you read The Eugenics Wars novels, the engines of the original DY-100 was based on reverse-engineering the impulse engines of the Ferengi shuttle that crashed at Roswell, which I suppose is a good of an explanation as any as to how it got that far out into space.
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