Topic: I am so PISSED!  (Read 1676 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
I am so PISSED!
« on: December 04, 2004, 10:50:09 pm »
For this marketing course I'm taking we need to do a group project marketing a new product via a marketing and business plan.  My areas in the project are the detailed financial projections and the powerpoint presentation.  So, I have no idea what these financial projections are to entail, so I do some research on the topic and find that much of it has to do with my old buddies the financial statements: the balance sheet, income sheet and cash flows sheet.  I get them all figured out on spreadsheets with functions built in and everything, using the general financial data that was provided to me by another group member.  I show them to the rest of the group who don't like some of the figures and wonder why I need such complex spreadsheets for this project.  The answer "i researched it, since it wasn't in the book or any of the other class materials, and well, this is what I came up for as us needing," does not phase them one bit.
So the ladies take my data and whine about the figures to which I say "I was working within the parameters that were set forth to me, and this was the best I could do under those parameters.  We can change the basic figures if you want and have something better to work with."  This also was unacceptable to them, so they said that we should start with my projections and work forward from there.  Fine with me.
I pull up the spreadsheets and say "all you have to do is tell me what you want to spend on each expense and how many products we should sell and it will all fall together fast."  They are unhappy with this answer, but humor me, halfheartedly.  First, they won't touch the idea of how much product we will sell, they want to cover expenses.  I protest but give in knowing that it will all come together in the end.  So I go down the list of expenses "how much will we spend on advertising, how much on delivery expenses, etc etc etc."  after about 6 they throw a fit saying this is all unnecessary and overly complex.  I tell them no, it's as easy as it gets, all we do is input the data and the spreadsheet tallies everything for us.  FInally, after 20 minutes of arguing how complex this whole spreadsheet thing is and being told by every group member that they don't know what a balance sheet, income sheet and cash flows sheet is and how to read them.  I tell them just to tell me how much money they want for each thing and it will all work out.  Instead, two of them (who prfessed the most strongly their ignorance on the financial statements) take printed copies of the original spreadsheets and a couple ancient calculators and inform me that they are going to figure everything about them on their own by hand because it will be quicker and easier.
An hour goes by. 
Two.
Three and a half.
They spend all they're time on the income statements the proudly proclaim that they have projections that give us profit within five years.  Wonderful.  Did you keep in mind that the income statement makes no allowance for you corporate taxes?  NO.  So did you really make any profit?  NO.  finally, are they listening to me?  of course not.  The other half to the financial projections, which I have no part in anymore?  we aren't doing them.  "They're too complicated"
And what, you ask, is the crowning moment of all this?  I looked through my contacts list on my PDA at everyone I knew, and there is no one who will listen to me complain about this.
I hate my life.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline KBF-WillWeasel

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 260
    • beware the crap
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #1 on: December 04, 2004, 11:41:42 pm »
And people wonder why so many managers and those in charge of companies are they way they are. Or perhaps not  ::)
Somewhere north of the Azores.
KBF always

Offline Bonk

  • Commodore
  • *
  • Posts: 13298
  • You don't have to live like a refugee.
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #2 on: December 05, 2004, 06:13:14 am »
Luddites. Are you sure you're cut out for marketing? You might want to look into a science degree after finishing the marketing course. ;)

LINEST and LOGEST array formulae are your friends!

Offline KBF-Angel Slayer

  • Lord High Master of Justice
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 4104
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #3 on: December 05, 2004, 01:06:28 pm »
Give your fellow students a crowbar so that they can pop their heads out.  Bad news.  The beancounters job, which is what you were doing, is to present REALITY to them.  They will learn a hard lesson in the real world, because you can't fantasize about good profits.  Yes, it happens, but it is based on realistic projections.
   The students with you are the ones that are going to find themselves joining a long list of failed business attempts, because they don't want to plan realistically.  You should be fine, because you are looking at the numbers in a pragmatic method.
   You are in class.  Use this as a learning experience, rather than getting mad about it.  You will deal with the same level of idiocy in the real world.  And being pragmatic will get you better jobs.  Yes men are a dime a dozed.  Honest ones are priceless.


NPR is a lot like NASCAR.  Two hundred miles an hour in a circle, and you end up right back where you started with nothing but lost time for the effort.


Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #4 on: December 05, 2004, 04:56:42 pm »
Oh I'm fort sure not cut out for marketing.  The course is a requirement for a degree in accounting, which I am taking hoping this is the answer for my lack of ability to get along with others.  The theory is to get a job in some cubicle and spend the rest of my life there.  After all, if I spend my time hidden away in a cubicle talking to nothing but numbers, I can't get anyone so pissed at me that they assault me and I get fired for it now can I?  (yes this has happened.  Like I said, I have a unique way with people).
Another argument they used was that the financial data presented by the other classmates wasn't this detailed.  I pointed out that the data presented to US wasn't as detailed, and asked if any of them saw the data given to the prof.  They had no way to counter this question, given that they DIDN'T see the info presented to the prof, so they didn't know.  They ignored me anyway.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Commander Maxillius

  • You did NOT just shoot that green sh-t at me?!?
  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2299
  • Gender: Female
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #5 on: December 05, 2004, 05:59:53 pm »
I think this is the point where you sit back, do what they say, take the D, and say, "I told ya so."
I was never here, you were never here, this conversation never took place, and you most certainly did not see me.

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #6 on: December 05, 2004, 06:11:06 pm »
That would be nice, if it weren't for the fact that the D in the project could also mean a D for my grade in the class.  Everything rides on this project.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Strafer

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 428
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #7 on: December 05, 2004, 09:30:36 pm »
Keep a journal, and hand it in at the same time...
--
Code: [Select]
Lineage II
Server                           Sieghardt                    deviantrealms.com (dead)
Chars       Strafer          L24 Rogue                  L64 Hawkeye
                StrayFar       L64 Tyrant                  L51 Tyrant
                StrawFur      L37 Scavenger            L49 Bounty Hunter
                StraightFour L62 Shillen Elder         L53 Shillen Elder

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #8 on: December 05, 2004, 09:36:35 pm »
It's a bit late for that.  The project is due on wednesday.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline jualdeaux

  • The Quiet One
  • Global Moderator
  • Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 2758
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #9 on: December 05, 2004, 10:08:44 pm »
Yeah, I had a few groups like that. I really liked the ones that would argue and argue about things and then would yell at me when I would say, "hey, we have 15 minutes to get this done. Let's just pick something and get on with it." But nooooo. They wanted to argue about it for another 10 minutes and then only have crap to turn in. Yes, this was just in class assignments.

I don't really recall ever having that bad of an experience with a full term group project. There were a couple where we had a slacker, and even one where I didn't put quite as much effort into it as I usually would due to the fact that I was the PM of another group and didn't have the time to do it all for the other. 4 graduate level classes at a time while working 35+ hours a week didn't leave me with a lot of extra time. I wll say that the year I took for my MBA was the best of my academic career though.

Oh, have any of your classes made you turn in a performance eval for your other team members?
Only in America .....do we use the word 'politics' to describe the process so well: 'Poli' in Latin meaning 'many' and 'tics' meaning 'bloodsucking creatures'.

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2004, 10:54:07 pm »
I don't think there will be a performance eval for me to fill out for them.  I got the revised spreadsheet, they dumped the balance sheets, the cash flows statements, ignored little things in the equation like corporate taxes.
She did add a note that said I could change things if I wanted to, but the only change I want to make is to throw the crap they gave me in the garbage and start from scratch.  In fact, i may just start over on my own and if the prof complains about the financials, I'll be all "oh, well then maybe you'd like these forms that were rejected by the group..."
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Dracho

  • Global Moderator
  • Rear Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 18289
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #11 on: December 06, 2004, 12:07:16 am »
Having managed both sides of the equasion you are speaking about, you're two sides of the same coin.  It sounds like you are the logical one and managed to get in a group of abstract thinkers. 

Out in the real world, they will probably wind up in sales, making promises that drive you and the other operations people nuts.  In the end though, it takes both brain types to make a large company function.  The sooner you (both sides of the coin) come to grips with this, the sooner you'll learn to emphasize your strengths and make them work together.  If you never do, you'll be like a salesman and an engineer at a previous company I worked for.  They actually got into a fight at a customer site over what product would be the best fit for their need.  Needless to say, we lost the contract.

A suggestion (even though you didn't ask for one  ;D).  When you are in a study group environment (My college used mandatory study groups) figure out each person's strengths and farm out the tasks.  4 of you working on the same documents is a waste of resources.  Have one person do the numbers, one do the market research, one do the advertising, and one act as PM and final paper editor.  It works well and keeps the stress low.  It also lets you segment the work and if someone doesn't perform, you can turn in a paper with their piece missing and let the professor deal with them.



The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline Just plain old Punisher

  • Vice Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 36927
  • Gender: Male
  • I'm not facist, I just like wearing jackboots
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #12 on: December 06, 2004, 05:03:55 am »
Welcome to marketing, two drink minimum

"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2004, 07:58:01 am »
A suggestion (even though you didn't ask for one  ;D).  When you are in a study group environment (My college used mandatory study groups) figure out each person's strengths and farm out the tasks.  4 of you working on the same documents is a waste of resources.  Have one person do the numbers, one do the market research, one do the advertising, and one act as PM and final paper editor.  It works well and keeps the stress low.  It also lets you segment the work and if someone doesn't perform, you can turn in a paper with their piece missing and let the professor deal with them.

That is a good suggestion.  My tactics thgis far have been to attempt to make them see my point of view, b ut when they don't I let it slide, since one of them has an extremely fiery temper.  She will get a minimum of beligerant and often violent towards anyone who even looks at her funny.
As to dividing up the tasks, we did that.  Theyt were so bothered b y the complexity of my part of the project that they took it away from me and oversimplified it.  I still have to present the info, but I have no say in it anymore.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Dracho

  • Global Moderator
  • Rear Admiral
  • *
  • Posts: 18289
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2004, 09:04:49 am »
One other thing.. and it'll keep everyone honest.. if this group remains together through multiple projects, you each take turn being the project manager. 
The worst enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan.  - Karl von Clausewitz

Offline DIFJosh

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 185
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #15 on: December 06, 2004, 10:06:26 am »
yo we understand  about Business Plans , Cash flow, spreadsheets  etc if you'd like to give us some of your Wisdom in this Area feel free to Contact me (Joshuawatcher@aol.com). WE Are CUGS

we have  structure set up already  have Financial advisors , Lawyer and Accountant ,plus a staff of great peeps who make cugs work.

We are a brand New company and could use all the help we can. so if your up to it give me a shout.
we are very serious when it comes to business and want to make the community bigger and happier


DIFJosh

this is our Team Speak  24.189.82.203:8767
feel free to contact  me/Hoggie/Chris Jones/FreddyZ

Offline Clark Kent

  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6071
  • Gender: Male
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #16 on: December 06, 2004, 10:29:06 am »
yo we understand  about Business Plans , Cash flow, spreadsheets  etc if you'd like to give us some of your Wisdom in this Area feel free to Contact me (Joshuawatcher@aol.com). WE Are CUGS

we have  structure set up already  have Financial advisors , Lawyer and Accountant ,plus a staff of great peeps who make cugs work.

We are a brand New company and could use all the help we can. so if your up to it give me a shout.
we are very serious when it comes to business and want to make the community bigger and happier


DIFJosh

this is our Team Speak  24.189.82.203:8767
feel free to contact  me/Hoggie/Chris Jones/FreddyZ

I'm not sure how much expertise I have, it's just that I've learned about them and have learned how to muddle through them.  I'm sure in the next year or so, as I get my accounting degree, I'll learn to use them very efficiently, it's just that I have a much higher understanding in this area than the rest of my group.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline DIFJosh

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 185
Re: I am so PISSED!
« Reply #17 on: December 06, 2004, 02:25:51 pm »
well remeber if you would like to help our little group . Feel free to contact any of us, over at gamespy lobby Orion pirates  or on our team speak 24.189.82.203:8767




DIFJosh


"WE DO THIS FOR COMMUNITY SAKE"