Topic: Things I'd like to see in the next sfc...

[GOCTorlek]

I'm a big fan of SFC3.  I have thoroughly enjoyed playing the mod "Dominion Wars".  The only complaint I had is that the available weapons were not "canon" for the various races, and the moderator (Pelican) was unable to create more specific weapons for the various races he added.  He did his best to seed the various available weapons, but he could only do so much.  I personally would like to see the next game include COMPLETELY canon weapons, for all the playable races.  Things we saw in the show, and not try so hard to mix aspects of earlier games into what should have been it's own stand alone game.  For instance, we saw the plasma torpedo in SFC3 which was a throw back from SFC2.  They used the same (or similar) power depletion idea from SFC2, and then gave it a similar "to hit" chance to the photon torpedo.  Which in my personal opinon "nerfed" it.  Ultimately, the weapon had no place in the game.  To remain true to the timeline, no romulan ship had used the plasma torpedo in any episode I saw since balance of power from the original series.  It was always photon torps (with a different color) and both beam and pulse disruptors.  I'd like to see a truly timeline correct game.

Second, about the map and missions.  Your actions as a starship captain should have an effect (if small) on your empire, like in sfc3.  I liked that aspect (even if it WAS a bit simplified).  What I didn't like was the fact that missions in the middle of nowhere space, with NO spacial bodies or even strategic importance still made a difference.  Dead space should be completely unimportant.  Habitable planets SHOULD be.  Whether they're inhabited or not SHOULD be.  Your empire's philisophical ideals on whether to integrate a planet's  inhabitants into your empire should be important.  To explain: the federation comes across an inhabited planet within it's borders.  The inhabitants have not yet developed warp drive or some other distinctive technology (like advanced terraforming).  Therefor, they leave it alone and quarantine it until they do such.  Once they did, then the diplomats would make "first contact" to judge whether the population as a whole met certain requirments for federation membership (unified world government for instance)  The Klingons or the Romulans on the other hand, might invade and enslave (or destroy)the race if they proved unreasonable, and there was some benefit for doing so, such as a needed commodity that was otherwise scarce like dilithium, whether they were "ready" or not.  And so on.  I guess what I'm asking for is something more complex than a simple "take the hex and work on the next one" type game.  Ship to ship combat should be the MOST important part of the game.  And I'm requesting that THIS aspect of the game be the MOST canon part.  I want to feel like a "real" starship captain with all the risks(and glory) that it involves.

[Pestalence_XC]

Umm... hate to break this to you, but Taldren is out of business.. which means there will be no future SFC titles ever...

the best to hope for is the release of the SFC series source code.. and so far the only talk on source code is for Empires at War and Orion Pirates... as such, SFC 3 is owned by Activision and it is doubtful if the source code will be released any time soon...

However once the source code is released, and if you have Direct X 9.0c SDK and Microsoft Visual C++ 6.0 with service pack 5, and the current scripting API and Taldren's build enviroment (should be with the source code), then you can edit SFC 3 the way you would like it within limitations that the game engine can handle.

Anyhow, sorry to burst your bubble, but editing the current games once source code is released is the best that can possibly happen.. however I am currently working on revising the SFC 3 moddable game files to where there should be more balance in the stock game, adding BB to the 2 races missing them, and re-editing the models in 3D Studio Max 5 so that the hardpoints on the physical models will fire from the correct locations with the correct firing arcs to make the ships racially diverse...

anyhow, I hope that this helps.. just remember that anything released from here on out is purely an unofficial game patch for any SFC game and should be classified as a Mod..


As for adding weapons, that requires the game source code and the Quicksilver game code.. as such, those resources are not available and so the weapons can not be added to the game currently..

As for the previous SFC titles.. Starfleet Command, Starfleet Command II: Emipres at War, Starfleet Command II : Orion Pirates (stand alone EAW Expansion)... these games were based no on the TV series but on a board game called Starfleet Battles and the game tries to hold true to those ties...

SFC 3 was designed to be similar to the TNG era trek time line at about the time just before the movie Nemisis...

It has no ties with TOS trek what so ever...

the other aspect to the game in which you are referring would be extremely difficult to incorporate into the game engine and the server kit.. All planets can be terraformed, whether it is under a dome or if the planet has it's own atmosphere.. as such, all planets count as resources for their empire, Astroids can be minned, and so forth.. gasses from nebulaa's for propulsion systems.. etc..., all these are not wasted space or dead space.. and enemy ships can do deep recon in enemy territory and so forth so battles if you cross the enemy is very likely... also it would be very boring for a GAME to wander the map for 20 Min looking for a battle when you can have battle after battle.. after all this is a Game and not a TV show...

As for what you are suggesting about Warp Tech.. if you care to look at the game map again.. it is the Alpha Quadrant in Piccards era.. which means all races at this point in time has Warp Technology..l now if it was the Delta or Gamma Quadrant, i would agree with you...

anyhow.. these are things for the programmers on these boards to consider once the source code is released....

Hope that this helps.

[CaptJosh]

Another thing. Major Kira specifically bitched out the Romulans for trying to store 3000 Plasma Torpedoes at a Bajoran hospital complex In a DS9 ep. So no, we haven't seen them use anything we rocognize as a plasma torpedo, or plasma mortar as it was called in the giant Novel Final Frontier, they do still use them.

[Pestalence_XC]

Another thing. Major Kira specifically bitched out the Romulans for trying to store 3000 Plasma Torpedoes at a Bajoran hospital complex In a DS9 ep. So no, we haven't seen them use anything we rocognize as a plasma torpedo, or plasma mortar as it was called in the giant Novel Final Frontier, they do still use them.

Also you have to remember that books are not considered canon for the TOS timeline.. Gene Roddenberry, creator of Trek, stated that if it was not seen on TV or the big screen, it does not count as canon in the world of Trek...

as such, the reference to the book you mention would not be considered for SFC 3 under original game design..

finally, as for DS 9, the Plasma Torpedos fire like Photons, once activated, they fire in a direct path and are green in color.. that is what SFC 3 has... there are no tracking plasma as in TOS or SFB.

[CaptJosh]

Actually, that was more berman and braga who made the big deal of canon vs non-canon. If Gene Roddenberry had seen something he liked in a Trek book, he would have simply stolen it and claimed it was his idea all along. We call it "Great Bird of the Galaxy" syndrome.

I figure that as long as nothing on screen contradicts something from a book, it's safe to use the info. Nothing has ever said that a plasma torp was not at some point called a plasma mortar. So I don't mind referencing that.

As far as the 24th century plasma torp, I'd guess that the romulans have adopted the federation tech of a torpedo casing in order to make their torpedo more effective. It wold make sense. The flaws of the plasma torpedo were obvious in "Balance of Terror". It takes too much power to fire and it disipates too quickly if your target is running away. A version of it in a warp capable casing would be more practical as a weapon, even if the design would be hellishly complicated.

[EmeraldEdge]

Just because Taldren is gone doesn't mean we can't get another SFC, imo.   Last I heard was they didn't own the name, IPlay did own the franchise title, and sold it to ATVI.   Now, it might be difficult to make one through ATVI because they don't have the Trek license, but perhaps they would be willing to send the franchise elsewhere since they can't do anything with it other than sell it anyway.  Now, if you wanted to use the same code that would be a bit of a different issue, but if you wanted to start from scratch (something that would likely need to be done anyway if you were going to market another game in the series due to the age of the engine and inner workings) you could just have a different dev, slap the name on there and away you go.

[Pestalence_XC]

Emerald...

Activision OWNS SFC 3 only.. the source code belongs to Taldren... since Taldren is closed, they are no longer developing...

as for release of source code.. it takes Interplay, Quicksilver, Activision, Taldren, and any other company involved in the game source creation to give approval for source code release...

the SFC OP Server Kit source was released as it belonged to Taldren and Interplay exclusively.. as such, both parties agreed under certain terms... as such, Dynaverse.net and a select few get to whack at it before it becomes a full open source...

the Title of Starfleet Command also belongs to Taldren... Activision owns the SFC 3 game, not the name of the game... the game could have been called burmans butkiss for all that matters and the name would still be Taldrens... the game would be Activisions...

the game source for SFC is Taldrens Intellectual Property.. as such, no other developer can use the game source to create another game without permission from Taldren... Activision owns the physical code to SFC 3 only.. Interplay owns the SFC, SFC II : EAW and SFC II : OP physical code for the game, but underneath it all Taldren owns the intellectual and developmental rights to the code and as such, it belongs to Taldren... No one else can make a game on the source unless they get direct written permission from Erik Bethke and Kenneth yease and all other original programmers from Taldren...

Sorry Emerald... SFC is defunct in development unless every company who was involved in the game signs off on the release of the source code.. and any new SFC titloes are defunct unless former Taldren employees sign off on the game engine being used... and finally I doubt that Erik or Interplay will sign off the the name of SFC to be used on any future titles....

[EmeraldEdge]

Are you sure that Taldren owned the title "Starfleet Command"?   I know that they owned portions of the code, but last I heard was that the title had been transferred to ATVI from IPlay (and that Taldren had recieved some portions of the code that they needed to make the game at about the same time, pieces that were still owned by IPlay).  I'm fully aware of the code ownership, but if a company started from scratch with their own code, I believe it's possible.  I would be surprised if Taldren purchased the title "Starfleet Command" from IPlay (they were the ones who had the title before Taldren even existed).   Being under the financial pressures that they were, it would have seemed unwise to purchase it when they didn't have the license to produce the games, it would have made much more sense for ATVI to purchase the franchise name since they were the ones planning on making more Trek games, and had all the Trek licenses coming their way.

[14G_Tiger]

i saw this while browsing the net..

"Starfleet Command is a copyright of Taldren, Interplay, & Actvision, Star Trek is
a copyright of Paramount Pictures, Starfleet Battles is a registered .."

I dont believe Taldren made the original, because there was no mention of them in the credits for it...and if i remember correctly, if and when Taldren filed for bankruptcy, they would have given the right of SFC back to paramount/activision...most of 3 was new source code, dont see why 4 couldnt be either

[Age]

    The only way there could be a new SFC title and that is if Erik gave his blessing to Quicksilver to Develope them as they still have the game engine,source etc. Viacom/Paramount owns all rights and mods to all Star Trek games.They are the one that sell the Licenses to puplishing companies and Activision is a pubisher only.The game I am refferring to are not just SFC but all of them.That is why they all have a Viacom or Paramount logo on them.You want another go bug Harry Lang or Paramount.That all I am saying Pestalence take over.

[EmeraldEdge]

If that's the case, Age, you wouldn't have to bother with Eric if you started from scratch and didn't use the old "engine, source, etc.".   It could use new stuff anyway.

Tiger is right, Taldren didn't even exist when the first one was made.   After the first was made, members of the IPlay division (and others) that made the game (14 degrees east) decided to make a go of it as their own company and to make the second installment, and thus Taldren was born. 

[CaptJosh]

You want to try again? If taldren didn't exist yet when SFC1 was made, them why is their logo in the opening movie?

[EmeraldEdge]

Hmmm, well let's see.  I install my SFC1 to the default location, which puts it in a 14 East folder in Program Files.   I boot up the game, and I see 14 east, Paramount, IPlay, and Quicksilver logos, but I don't see any "Taldren" anywhere.   You sure you booted up the right game?  If so, I think you've got something really special there.

also, in the read me "Starfeet Command Copyright 1999 Interplay Entertainment Corp.  All
Rights Reserved."  there is no mention of Taldren in any of the legalese.  They do mention Paramount, 14 East, and Quicksilver.

If Taldren existed for SFC1 I think that's something Erik and the gang would be interested in.

[CaptJosh]

Admittedly, the copy I had was from a combo game pack that came later and not an original. But I remember seeing the Taldren logo.

I think the game pack was called Gamefest Star Trek Classics...

[Pestalence_XC]

I remember that Package.. there were several versions.. I bought SFC II and got SFC 1 Gold for Free...

now Starfleet Command, the original, was created by 14 degrees East, an internal Interplay development Team which included Erik Bethke, Scott Bruno, Kenneth yease and several others..

After SFC came out and Interplay stopped support on v1.02.01, Erik and others decided to create their own company, Taldren Soctware inc., which created the 1.03 patch for SFC... then they released Star Trek Starfleet Command II Empires At War.. Taldren's First official Title..however, Taldren is credited for Starfleet Command Original as the original design team opened Taldren.. however the title and code is Interplay (14 Degrees East Division) the intelletual property of the game engine and source code belongs to Taldren.. as such, in essence, it is Taldren's game... in reality, it is wholely Interplay's game...

[CaptJosh]

Maybe that's why by the time the Gamefest Star Trek Classics came out, they had added the Taldren Logo to the opening movie along with Quicksilver, 14 Degrees East, and Interplay?