Topic: U.S.S. Cleopatra - Nitocris Class Light Cruiser

[Wicked Zombie]

This is my take on a TMP era version of the old Daedalus and Archon class 'cue-ball' designs.

[Chris Johnson]

Although I'm not fond of Pre-TOS designs going well into the TMP-era, I could see how this model would change my mind on said fondness.  Very good work.

[Darkdrone]

Although I'm not fond of Pre-TOS designs going well into the TMP-era, I could see how this model would change my mind on said fondness.  Very good work.

its not pre-tos its TOS

nice update WZ45 one of my fave designs is this ship nice to see a tmp version

DD

[Sandman3D]

AWESOME!!

[Wicked Zombie]

Although I'm not fond of Pre-TOS designs going well into the TMP-era, I could see how this model would change my mind on said fondness.  Very good work.

Just like pre-Fed designs going into TNG, or has everyone forgotten the NX-01/Akira connection? 

The spherical hull concept doesn't have to be limited to the aforementioned ships, just like the saucer/hull arrangement obviously isn't limited to the Constitution. There's no reason to set aside this design as it isn't exactly complicated and aside from the basic similarities, it is a totally new ship. Afterall, the simpler a ship's design, the longer it is going to last on the drawing boards.

[Chris Johnson]

Just like pre-Fed designs going into TNG, or has everyone forgotten the NX-01/Akira connection? 

I find it quite amusing how some people adore canonical Trek.  Not to say that you do, WZ, since I don't know. *shrug* I've long-since ditched Akiraprise and had stuck with Masao Okazaki's view on Pre-TOS history.  I like how he made the "spherical-headed" ships a thing of the past in Fed Starship evolution design.  I guess because of that I wasn't fond of seeing too much ships with spheres.  But then, some Federation engineers like to make blasts from the past, and thus the Olympic-class from "All Good Things..." (TNG). *shrug*

[Wicked Zombie]

I didn't say anything about liking the Akiraprise lineage. My comment was obviously intended to point out how the two ships are seemingly identical, despite 300 years of technology and change. Regardless of the rehashing of designs behind-the-scenes, it's canon now and it does add merit to my comment. Just because a design is old, it doesn't mean it has to be tossed away and there's no reason why the sphere designs can't still be used. That's like arguing over why, after 300 years, saucers are still used in Starfleet ships - there's obviously a simplistic mainstay reason to continue with that element. The same would apply to the spherical hulls since they're the same as a saucer, the only difference being that the later is squashed down.

People "adore" canonical Trek because that's what everyone is most familiar with and since whatever is on-screen is canon, then that has the final say - even if sometimes it flies in the face of previous facts. Canonical Trek is often clouded by outside information from non-canon and semi-canon sources, so much so that something eventually ends up being practically canon anyway. I'd like to ignore most of what happened with Voyager, just like others want to ignore Enterprise. But that's getting way off course and opens up a whole string of debates, so I'm going to drop the subject and hope my site stays online long enough for my ships to get downloaded...

[Klingon Fanatic]

  WOW! Take the head off that add impulse and hangar bays and you have a cool TMP FASA Trek Fenlon monitor!

Thanks for sharing this with us WZ45.

KF

[OlBuzzard]

This will get me into trouble ..  and make just about everyone mad at me ...  no telling how badly this will affect my input with the future of this community ...  but here it is any way:

1.  I am tired of the term "Akiraprise"  ..  sorry wrong idea ..  simply because it does not match up with SFB or other idealism.  That is the one thing that seems to hurt this community the most.  It seems as long as we hold to "certain" ideals that we are accepted with open arms and openly praised to no end.

I'm not bitter ..  but this is just plain nuts ...

WZ ..  I love your work ...  so don't take this wrong.  This presentation is VERY good ..  but IMHO this is still pre-TOS .. and simply another interpretation of pre TOS ships ...  I don't remember seeing too many of the spherical shapes in TOS.

It should also be noted that simply because we may have a differing opinion on the whole new idea that the warp 5 ship looks as it does ... should not result in a such a bitter debate .. nor in making others who might actually like the idea fell less than knowlegable on this subject.

2.  AS for the workmanship of this model ..  it is excellent.  I doubt some of you will get past the first point I made ..  but that's ok.  I'm not angry with anyone.  It just seems that sometimes some of us are overly defensive on certain matters if we actually like the NX-1.

WZ...  for what ever it's worth ..  I like this ship ...  and your work.

thanks

[markyd]

Awsome..... Love it..

If I could change one thing... Id change the windows... they look kinda like foil.... apart from that... superb

[Chris Johnson]

I was typing up a long long message in reply to WZ, but I decided to wait a bit.  I realized before what I was doing, and I was, in debate, not just openly expressing my idea of Trek is (at least tech-wise), but pressuring him to accept it.  I guess that's where things can go wrong if interpreted wrong.  Not everybody likes debates, and I don't believe this is the right thread--let alone the right forum--to do this in.  So I'll drop it like WZ has, and apologize once more to him.  I guess I need to cool off a bit on the debating part.

Awsome..... Love it..

If I could change one thing... Id change the windows... they look kinda like foil.... apart from that... superb

Although despite all that had went on in this thread, I still think WZ's model is great.  My only pet peeve would be the windows too, but not for that reason... Unlike WZ's Okinawa-class FF ships, it seems that the windows on this ship seemed to differ in size.  The Windows on the secondary hull are smaller compared to the bigger windows of the primary, and considering the size of the windows, phaser banks, and bridge on the primary hull (as well as the comparison pics), I'd say this isn't a very big ship, so I figured there wouldn't be much windows on the secondary hull.

But please please treat that said comment as a very-minor pet peeve.  I think with my lack of talent I can fix that myself. *shrug* I don't think WZ should do a thing to it.  It's great overall.

[Wolfsglen]

"1.  I am tired of the term "Akiraprise"  ..  sorry wrong idea ..  simply because it does not match up with SFB or other idealism.  That is the one thing that seems to hurt this community the most.  It seems as long as we hold to "certain" ideals that we are accepted with open arms and openly praised to no end."

Speaking for myself, i called it "Akiraprise" long before i found out about SFB (which i only did in recent times) i called it such because apart from the obvious similiarities, i remember an interview where it was stated clearly that the design was "loosely based" (interpret that how you will hehe) on the Akira due to its popularity and "kewlness" amongst Trek-fans...so i dont see how "SFB Idealism" has anything to do with it.

Personally i call it "Loknarprise" myself, due to its similarity to the Loknar, which was around before both the Akira and the NX   So unless that means im guilty of "FASA idealism" or any other crap meaningless expression that can be pulled out of thin air, i simply put it down to differences of opinions amongst a diverse fangroup, and would normally avoid posting a ramble like this as a result.

As for any "ideals" and being praised as a result of them, i really cant say as i dont see it myself, but that line sounds dangerously thin considering i see people in here favouring SFB/FASA/CANON/SFC3/OP/Jackills/Mastercom/Klingon Academy/Completely Original Designs of their own/god knows what else all in equal flavor from one day to the next, i dont see much of any idealism really except for that of "TREK"  

Beautiful work WZ, going to shut up now and go find a spot in my shiplist ready for her.

[Darth Chandley]

Nice one WZ.... Another great model....

To drop my two cents in I'll agree with Wolfsglen... I too prefer the "Loknarprise" analogy but you cant knock people for calling the "NX" an "Akiraprise" as the similarities are there for all to see.... For a long time now it seems that any screened Trek seems to have the "wow" and "cool" factor as a priority with the whole continuity aspect of it being way down on the list... I'd almost go so far as to say that if they could, "they" would disregard TOS era completely because it doesn't fit in with how they've shaped the Trek universe... I'm no fan of the Enterprise design because they really should have thought about it more... It's a perfect example of lazy design with no effort given at all as to how it fits in with existing canon... but this has all been talked about at length before so no need to go over it again....

As far as a TMP era Daedalus style ship goes, why not..... It sits well with the rest and if I can be permitted a motoring analogy, it's as contemporary as a 2005 Ford Mustang or a Porsche 911... (you can pick the year!!!!!  )

[Dawntreader]

I like this design.  It will make a good medical ship.  Except for the photon launchers.
I am not usually a fan of sphere hulled ships, but this looks nice.
As far as the debate on ships designs.  

[Wicked Zombie]

I don't see any "bitter" arguments going on, just tactful debates/discussions regarding ship designs. Just because everyone doesn't agree, that doesn't make it heated or bitter. People have to realize that not everyone expresses their opinions in the same way, especially when tone of voice, facial expressions, etc. are useless on a forum.

I didn't suggest that the discussion be dropped because I wasn't having my boots licked, I suggested it because I've seen way too many arguments spurn from similar starting points. I'm not averse to debates, but since most of the time people get the wrong impression of what's going on (often getting angry for no reason), I prefer to avoid them. I personally think there should be more of this ship discussion going on though, if nothing more than to liven up the forums - just as long as they're tactful and informed.

CJ made valid points, even if I don't agree with them, and I simply voiced a few counterpoints. I don't think anyone is trying to impose their opinions on another (especially with someone as stubborn as I am, it'd be a fruitless venture), and this is just difference of tastes. I think you've read a bit too much into things, Buzz, as most of this discussion should be taken at face value. There's no underlying "I'm right, you idiots are wrong and should be smited for it!" stance here.

As for the "Akiraprise" remark, people call it the Akiraprise because it's the Enterprise with the Akira design as it's starting point. SFB has nothing to do with the design of the ship, and since ship designs are the majority of what is discussed here I thought that would've been recognized. Regardless of how much someone likes or dislikes the NX-01, nobody can deny that it has striking similarities between it's older (in reality) Akira counterpart.

As for it "still being pre-TOS", that was partly the intention. What's the point in making a TMP (design) refit of a ship if it doesn't look somewhat like the original? As I said previously, the Daedalus is one of the simplest designs in Starfleet history so naturally if it were re-used later on, it wouldn't have changed much. If it did, then the whole purpose of using the design fades away and you end up with a totally new ship. At any rate, I don't expect people to like the idea and if they don't, they don't have to use the ship. I just think the flying-saucer bit doesn't always have to be key element of a Federation vessel.

[Starforce2]

lol..pre-tos going to tmp...have we forgotten the olympic? Gal-x era medaical vessel. Anyways, Woulda prefered strait angled pylons rather than curved ones but the ship looks great anyways.

[OlBuzzard]

I don't see any "bitter" arguments going on, just tactful debates/discussions regarding ship designs. Just because everyone doesn't agree, that doesn't make it heated or bitter. People have to realize that not everyone expresses their opinions in the same way, especially when tone of voice, facial expressions, etc. are useless on a forum.

I personally think there should be more of this ship discussion going on though, if nothing more than to liven up the forums - just as long as they're tactful and informed.


As for the "Akiraprise" remark, people call it the Akiraprise because it's the Enterprise with the Akira design as it's starting point. SFB has nothing to do with the design of the ship, and since ship designs are the majority of what is discussed here I thought that would've been recognized. Regardless of how much someone likes or dislikes the NX-01, nobody can deny that it has striking similarities between it's older (in reality) Akira counterpart.

I agree bud ..  from this particular point of view.  I'm really not all that hard to get along with.



 AS for "reading too much into this" ...  perhaps as you have now clarified your own point of view, it was wrong of me to conclude that you were presenting that "tag or title"  in the same light of so many of those who HAVE.  For that I apologise.  It was not meant to be the "rant" that it appeared to be.  It was more like hearing "Akiraprise"  just one time too many I guess.  And yes ..   historically there have been a MULTITUDE who have used that name with only sarcasm and disdain in mind.


Over all as I have stated in this thread ... and dozens more in the past .. I appreciate your work.  I am acutely aware of your knowledge of Trek Lore and modling history.  I do respect your work.

Oh BTW..  just for the record ....  I'm not a big fan of the Akira  ..  just not put togeather right or something.  This is just my very personal opinion...  There is something about the design that just strike me wrong I guess  ( and the Prommy too)   Well  now I'm starting to ramble...

I do hope you understand what I'm trying to say  and hope we can be friends of sorts ...


thanks

[E_Look]

Hey, it's a nice design and execution.  It's WZ; what do you expect?
I suspect that's really that needs to be said about this offering!

[Reverend]

Thanks for your great work and tireless devotement to this community. I always like the Daedelus/Olympic design, very fun, very different, but still obviously carries the Federation motif.
Why did ''Akiraprise'' come up in the first place, and whats with the windows thing? I read it, but still don't get it. Akiraprise, Akiraprise, Akiraprise, thats all I hear, if its isn't Holy SFB canon design, it seems to just irk the heck out of some people... you can almost see them doing their darndest to not get worked up about it. Not harping on you three, nope, nope, nope, just wish we could drop that A-- term.... someone, think of another?
I agree, I like reading about ship designs, its always so much fun.... and I am glad, WZ, that you can take such debates and not crack.

[Rod ONeal]

First off, great looking ship. I think that the sphere is an obvious, if not totally cool looking, design for a ship. The sphere is naturally much stronger than a saucer.

Second, Yeah WZ, it's great that you don't get insulted and fly off all 1/2 cocked at any comment that "just might" be construed as negative. Mucho Cudos to you for that.

Third, Hey Old Buzzard... Are you picking on us SFBers again?  Damned Trekker. 

[OlBuzzard]

Third, Hey Old Buzzard... Are you picking on us SFBers again?  Damned Trekker. 

Picking on "SFB'ers ....  Nah !!  Not really !!

"Trekker" ...  who me ???  Hmmm   let's see ..  been around since the first release of  "The Menagerie" ....

hehehehe  ..   guilty as charged !

 

[USS Mariner]

lol..pre-tos going to tmp...have we forgotten the olympic? Gal-x era medaical vessel. Anyways, Woulda prefered strait angled pylons rather than curved ones but the ship looks great anyways.

Yeah, nice design but the curvy pylons don't look right. Just doesn't bode with my idea of TMP lineage well.

However, the only thin in this design I'd change is the poly count of the sphere. It should have more vertical stacks and sides, to make it smoother, but I'll just have to live with it seeing as your never going to change it.

It is a good model regardless. Finally we get to see what the USS Eagle might've looked like in TUC.

[Wicked Zombie]

Regarding the windows, I did notice the oddness of them but I intentionally left them as they were. There's an old artist's trick: Leave something blatantly wrong so onlookers will be too busy pointing it out to notice the other stuff you screwed up.

Besides, if you don't ruffle a few feathers you didn't do it right.

Somehow I'm not surprised by the polygon-sphere remark - if I churn out a 9000 polygon super smooth ship, people gripe because it lags. If I shave off too much, other people gripe for it not being detailed enough. It's all because I'm dead, isn't it? This damned anti-Deadite sentiment that's floating around is appalling. We're people too, even if we are living impaired.

That was sarcasm, btw, if anyone missed it...

[OlBuzzard]

Regarding the windows, I did notice the oddness of them but I intentionally left them as they were. There's an old artist's trick: Leave something blatantly wrong so onlookers will be too busy pointing it out to notice the other stuff you screwed up.

hehehe   you sly dog !!!

you realize of course this will drive a few people absolutely nuts trying to find "the other mistakes" !!

 

[J. Carney]

I like it WZ, it's an excelent design progression of the Daedalus.

There would be a great reason for the spherical primary hull being used- it makes the ship a smaller target overall without reducing internal volume. The primary hull can have the volume of a saucer several times the diameter, since it has more decks. That means more storage space, more room for weapons, ect.

I wouldn't see it as a medical ship at all- maybe something like a long-rage patrol ship, like a frigate from the age of sail.

[Age]

Regarding the windows, I did notice the oddness of them but I intentionally left them as they were. There's an old artist's trick: Leave something blatantly wrong so onlookers will be too busy pointing it out to notice the other stuff you screwed up.

Besides, if you don't ruffle a few feathers you didn't do it right.

Somehow I'm not surprised by the polygon-sphere remark - if I churn out a 9000 polygon super smooth ship, people gripe because it lags. If I shave off too much, other people gripe for it not being detailed enough. It's all because I'm dead, isn't it? This damned anti-Deadite sentiment that's floating around is appalling. We're people too, even if we are living impaired.

That was sarcasm, btw, if anyone missed it...

I know this a little OT but that is a nice sig you have and web site Wicked Zombie.That a great looking model for the old Daedlas class of ships.

[S33K100]

This actually really does look more like the Archon than the Daedalus, the sphere-mounted deflector, the sphere-mounted impulse engines, (both were on the secondary on the Daedalus and the primary on the Archon) the dorsal connector sitting above the top of the engineering hull (the 'neck' of the Archon protrudes from the top of the sec-hull) and the nacelles being highly similar to those of the connie (the Daedalus nacelles were in real life - for the studio model, actually made from old Inter-Continental Ballistic Missile model kits with the familiar spiked bussards attached to the top) In any case it is a very nice design WZ, I liked it so much I just spent a while enlarging the windows on the sec-hull (only by copy-pasting the same two window shapes from the primary hull over and over). Nice work.

P.S. Akiraprise is not just to do with the general shape, it's the little details that were identical that got the phrase coined, see these pics for what I mean: http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/misc/enterpriselarge-comments.jpg and http://www.ex-astris-scientia.org/misc/akira-vs-akiraprise.jpg, I dunno why people even bother to deny it. Not saying it's a bad design, just a rather lazy decision on the part of Berman (apparently Doug Drexler, the guy who designed it was forced to pretty much keep all the details from the Akira intact by B&B as part of their crazy fan-service idea). The ENT-Era S.S. Intrepid is a much better design for a hero ship anyway.

[Sandman3D]

It's all because I'm dead, isn't it? This damned anti-Deadite sentiment that's floating around is appalling. We're people too, even if we are living impaired.

Yes, you dang deaders are taking all the good jobs....don't need sleep, don't need a lunch break...of course, the smell is putrid, but the big bosses don't have to work in the same building as you....

[Lord Schtupp]

Nice work WZ

[Grim Reaper]

Great ship Wz. Shows that an "old" design can be cool as well.

It's all because I'm dead, isn't it? This damned anti-Deadite sentiment that's floating around is appalling. We're people too, even if we are living impaired.

Yes, you dang deaders are taking all the good jobs....don't need sleep, don't need a lunch break...of course, the smell is putrid, but the big bosses don't have to work in the same building as you....

Depending on your point of view if the Grim Reaper is dead or not (or just immortal) i want to comment on this: I Do Not Stink

(BTW j/k)

[darkthunder]

Wow this ship looks cool... any updates on when it will be released?

[Wicked Zombie]

It's been released since this thread was started. I don't post about a ship unless it's online.