Topic: OK how does hull work...and other stuff

[Hexx]

After listening to DH balther on and on about how important Labs were I decided to open up the ships with shipedit and now am more confused than ever.

1) I understand why the Feds have so many Labs.. err to easy, anyway but why do the Kzin have so many ? I always thoguht they were more a "warrior" race than a scientific one. For that reason why do the ISC have so few?

2) How does hull work according to the damage charts? The shiplist has the CLC (for example) as having 10 center hull , no forward or aft.
It has the D5L as having 3 forward, 6 aft. I get this as I know the CLC can take more damage then the D5L without losing sytems.
BUT the CWLP is listed as having 5 Forward, 4 center, 5 aft. <--- shouldn't this mean the CWLP can take MORE damage than the CLC, and yet I know it can't.


3) Do the "bridge" boxes mean anything?

4) What is the Rom CCH? The NHK? The RGK? The SUK? KHK?

[FPF-DieHard]

Depite popular mis-conception, Lyrans do not have Fragile hulls. 

Hull are free hits on the DAC.   They represent Crew Quaters, bowling alleys, crap like that.  More hull equalls more free hits.

Ships with only on section have all center hull. 

[FPF-DieHard]

4) What is the Rom CCH? The NHK? The RGK? The SUK? KHK?

Roms are the only races that doesn't fall into the Cookie-cutter mold of the other races.   Reson is they never developed warp on their own.  All their Hawks are new cruisers.

NHK/RHK are CCH ships based on BPV and what they are capable of doing.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Center hull will take hits allocated to either forward or aft hull, while forward and aft hull only take the hits specifically allocated to it. Thus center hull is more valuable.

[Bonk]

1) I understand why the Feds have so many Labs.. err to easy, anyway but why do the Kzin have so many ? I always thoguht they were more a "warrior" race than a scientific one. For that reason why do the ISC have so few?

Labs best use in SFB as I recall, was to identify drones. Makes sense that the Kzin would have lots too. The ISC, facing the Gorns and Roms have less use for them, and as a plasma race, less understanding of drone technology anyway.

[Villa64]

I'm going way out on a limb here.

I thought that bridge and other control boxes were tracked on the capture bar.  When it goes to zero, and zero enemy boarding parties, you capture the ship.

Seemed like the capture fight looked somewhat like SFB.  The Bp fought it out until one was zero, then the attackers kept fighting the control boxes. 

Seems like theres a link somewhere to a DAC online.  That might help explain why and how systems get killed.

Villa

[Rod ONeal]

Labs also make a ship more durable. Their benefit is 2 fold. 1, they take damage and don't reduce a ships basic fighting capability. The ability to move, charge weapons, etc. 2, They perform emergency repairs in SFB, and, of course, repair/regenerate shields in SFC. Since Mirak/Kzinti like to get in close with all those P-3s and anchor/tractor you for their drones this is a very usefull benefit to them.

[762_XC]

4) What is the Rom CCH? The NHK? The RGK? The SUK? KHK?

All of the above (except the CCH, which you made up) are variants of the Firehawk Heavy Cruiser (FHK).

NHK - Novahawk Command Cruiser
RGK - Regalhawk Heavy Cruiser. R-torp version of the FHK.
SUK - Superhawk Command Cruiser. In SFB (and DH's mod) this is a NHK with fighters (8 in SFB, 5 in SFC).
KHK - Killerhawk Super Heavy Cruiser. A pocket battleship with an insane power curve. The Roms built one late in the war when they ran out of dreads.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Center hull will take hits allocated to either forward or aft hull, while forward and aft hull only take the hits specifically allocated to it. Thus center hull is more valuable.

I was wondering how the SFC game mechanics handle that.
If there is, say a Fwd hull hit pulled, would it hit center instead if that was all there was? Or move onto the next "slot" of the DAC and hit another system instead?
If the center simply takes all hull hits, you're going to run out of them quickly...
If it moves on, then you're going to lose other (and possibly more critical) systems more often...
Anyone know for sure how the game actually handles that type of situation?

[762_XC]

Forward hull gets allocated to forwad hull first, then center hull, then cargo IIRC.

Aft hull is the same.

[KBFLordKrueg]

I understand that. I'm refering specificly the case like the CLC, where is is ONLY center hull, no forward or aft present.

[762_XC]

Then any hull hit will hit the center hull.

10 center hull is still better than 5 forward + 5 aft.

[Julin Eurthyr]

This can get complicated, fast.

So here goes, and the best way to do this is by example.

Start with 3 CAs, each of them has 16 hull boxes.

Fed CA allocates them 12 Forward, 4 Aft
ISC CA (Or Lyran Tiger CA) allocates them 8 Forward, 8 Aft
Gorn CA allocates them 4 Forward, 4 Aft, and 8 Center

Now, let's simplify the damage allocations.  Let's say that Forward Hull protects weapons, and Aft hull protects engines.  It's a generalization, there are a lot more things to be hit between the hull and the weapons / engines.

And so, each ship gets hit with 20 damage, for single internals.  Oddly enough, they alternate, in order, between Forward and Aft hull hits...

In the end, the Fed gets it "lucky".  10 forward hits wipe out 10 of 12 forward hull.  Of the 10 rear hits, 4 knock out hull, and 6 blow up engines. 
The ISC / Lyrans are okay, they lost all their hull, and a pair of weapons and 2 points of power.  Being they gave up Ph-3s, the ship isn't too bad off.
The Gorn could come out of it like the Lyrans / ISC.  They could use up the forward and aft hull first (for 8 total hits), then 8 more to center hull (as the next 8 hull hits have to come off of center hull) finishes off the Gorn hull, leaving the last 4 damage to split between weapons and power.  Or, they could decide to "protect" the engines.  The first Forward hit goes to F-hull, while the first Rear hit goes to C-hull.  After 8 hits, he's out of F-hull, lost 4 of his 8 C-hull, and no R-hull.  Since all remaining F-hull hits come off the center hull now, he allocates his damage like this:  2 Forward hits on F-Hull, 2 Aft hits on Center hull, finishing it off.  With 12 of the 20 damage gone, and no more Forward Hull hits, the ship takes some damage.  The last 4 FH hits kill weapons, while the last 4 Aft hits knock out the regular rear hull, leaving the gorn down a few weapons, but with his engines completely intact, so he can outrun the incoming seeking weapons...   In the end, the order can be whatever they want...

Meanwhile, on the ships that are purely C-hull, it's another story.  All F-hull and A-hull hits have to allocate to C-hull.  So, taking a ship like the Hydran CAs with 21 C-hull, the first 21 hull hits of any kind go to that center hull, but once it's gone, then the whole ship starts to fall apart, as everything (weapons and power) is exposed.

[FireSoul]

They call the Hydran center hull block the "7th shield". Until this hull block is eliminated (as internals), best is to do mizia attacks against a hydran.


Please note that the 'life bar' for a ship within SFC is NOT the remaining hull, but represents the remaining combat effectiveness. Usually, there's very little left of the ship if it's at 50% or below as far as SFC is concerned.

[Hexx]

No I understood part of this (and thanks for the remainder) but just from observation (and not based on actual fact) I would
swear the CLC can take more damage than a CWLP, even though the Lyran has more hull.

[Julin Eurthyr]

No I understood part of this (and thanks for the remainder) but just from observation (and not based on actual fact) I would
swear the CLC can take more damage than a CWLP, even though the Lyran has more hull.

Okay.

I'm looking at the DAC.  5,6,7,8 & 9 are all "hull" hits, after 5 & 9's "bold" results knock out 1/2 a warp point each (1 damage to L warp, 1 to R-warp.)

Now, on the CLC, each and every one of these "hull" hits have to be allocated against the 10 Center Hull.  You can't get any other results until this hull is gone.

On the L-CWLP, which, for easy examination, I'm comparing to the Alleycat's 4F, 2C, 4R setup, runs into the limits on what hull can be hit.
The 5 & 8 hits are Aft Hull hits, the 6,7 & 9 are Foreward hits. 
Odds are, you'll burn through those 4 Forward hits, and the 2 Center hits, before you lose the 4 aft hits.  So, while you're waiting for the rest of the aft hull to be destroyed, things like the batteries and shuttlebay are being fried on 5 hits, the batteries then center warp drive on 7 hits, and batteries, labs and maybe a whack on the ESG from 9 hits are sneaking through.