Topic: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...  (Read 16679 times)

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Offline Green

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #20 on: December 01, 2004, 08:51:25 pm »
I'm willing to trade banning fast drones for Plasma.

Cool.  That's two for it.  Come on, anyone else?

Ban Fast Drones!  Ban Plasma!

Now everyone chant....

Ban Fast Drones!  Ban Plasma!
Ban Fast Drones!  Ban Plasma!
Ban Fast Drones!  Ban Plasma!

Offline FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #21 on: December 01, 2004, 09:36:54 pm »
Can anyone say... Shuttle duels at dawn with just a 360 degree Ph-III?
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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #22 on: December 01, 2004, 10:01:10 pm »
Can anyone say... Shuttle duels at dawn with just a 360 degree Ph-III?

360 degree?? OMG, that is pure cheese.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #23 on: December 01, 2004, 10:58:17 pm »
Expand the OOB for carriers, make it even more restrictive.  One squad type III, one squad type II, 2 squads type I for a 4 squad carrier.  One squad type II one squad type I for a 2 squad carrier.  I can hear the CVA and d6u pilots crying already.

Going with SFBish fighters and Fighter CnC, but I think you are on to something . . .

Bump drone COST shy high.  That way no one can just affoard top notch drones at $60 a drone.  Would make the games alot more balanced between the cruisers that use their own equipment, and the races that have vast attrition units on board.

VCs for disengaging a ship that out classes you 1v1, #%$!   :-*

Flame away, I happen to hate using AI and fast drones.

edited for spelling

Madelf's got a point here, so simple it is brilliant.  Make flying "Cheese" ships un-economical, who'll want to fly a PF tender when PFs are 1000 PP each?  This simply could be the form of control.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #24 on: December 01, 2004, 11:02:41 pm »

All joking aside if a new player wanted to try flying a DNH on a server, it wouldn't happen.
What the community has to decide id this an acceptable or unacceptable thing?


Which is why we need open servers and closed.   Dizzy simply doesn't want SG4 to be a fully-open server.

I have no problem pissing people off.
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Offline Hexx

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #25 on: December 01, 2004, 11:35:00 pm »
Expand the OOB for carriers, make it even more restrictive.  One squad type III, one squad type II, 2 squads type I for a 4 squad carrier.  One squad type II one squad type I for a 2 squad carrier.  I can hear the CVA and d6u pilots crying already.

Going with SFBish fighters and Fighter CnC, but I think you are on to something . . .

Bump drone COST shy high.  That way no one can just affoard top notch drones at $60 a drone.  Would make the games alot more balanced between the cruisers that use their own equipment, and the races that have vast attrition units on board.

VCs for disengaging a ship that out classes you 1v1, #%$!   :-*

Flame away, I happen to hate using AI and fast drones.

edited for spelling

Madelf's got a point here, so simple it is brilliant.  Make flying "Cheese" ships un-economical, who'll want to fly a PF tender when PFs are 1000 PP each?  This simply could be the form of control.


Only problem I see here is those of us who manage to amass 300K + on a 2week server still ahve the money to buy anything they want.
Still I suppose there shoulkd be some benfit to those who put in the time for their race.
But can we waqit a server or so to try?
I'm kinda looking forward to a Lyran BCH with not 2, but 4 groups of drone chucking Klink Fighters.
Lets see 762 beat me then...
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #26 on: December 01, 2004, 11:37:23 pm »

I'm kinda looking forward to a Lyran BCH with not 2, but 4 groups of drone chucking Klink Fighters.
Lets see 762 beat me then...

2 Groups, the L-BCV has 2 Squads of fighters.   ;D
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Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #27 on: December 01, 2004, 11:52:41 pm »

While we're at it, can we ban plasma?

No need to ban plasma.  Just let everyone have the ability to buy fast drones and fighters, and you'll see plasma vanish on its own.  ;)

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Offline Dizzy

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #28 on: December 02, 2004, 01:55:16 am »
Lots of good feedback here. Let me first touch off on this, then get into Madelf's reply. Someone once wrote:

Quote
I am a casual player w/ limited playing time. and what time i do have to play, i play w/ all my heart. And by no means that anything will change. I am NOT like Flufster.
He goes on further to say he get's passed up regularly for big Capitol ships.
I sympathize with players such as these, but with Big Iron, sometimes casual players have to be cut out of the action simply because of strategic concerns that they arnt online enough. It is necessary to have a DN on the board most of the time, and thus, casual players get the shaft.

So here's what I propose to fix this. Recently, I went to this big resort place upon getting a free stay over offer in the mail. Once there I had to go thru this lengthy process by which they presented a rather simple time sharing pitch in which I pay less than the value of a permanent resort condo, but in doing so are only allowed to enjoy it a few months out of the year... The same can be done with Dreads. 'Time Sharing'.

    In SG4, I think we should invoke a 'time sharing' rule in which a FM (Field Marshall, one of a select few appointed by an RM to fly a large capitol ship) must share his ship with a casual player, thus spreading around the wealth. I personally, don't want someone flying my Dread when I'm offline and then find out he killed it, but hey, if that's what it takes to make casual players happy, I'll gladly do it.


Next topic, Madelf:

Bump drone COST sky high.  That way no one can just affoard top notch drones at $60 a drone.  Would make the games alot more balanced between the cruisers that use their own equipment, and the races that have vast attrition units on board.

VCs for disengaging a ship that out classes you 1v1, #%$!   :-* Flame away, I happen to hate using AI and fast drones.

Someone said do that to PF's as well as Drone costs. Well, that doesnt impact the nutter. But the casual player, they'd get screwed. So no to that type of control method. 

VC's for disengaging I agree with wholeheartedly. In doing so, however, this would discourage less skillful players from flying larger ships which is moving in the wrong direction. We want to encourage fights. There are seldom few people who tacobell leading you around the map on a boring chase then disengage at the very end when you have spent hours getting the upper hand on a larger foe. Woe unto them for wasting your time. Thankfully the majority are not like that. And the other problem, and I can already hear it, is who outclassed who? So no to that, it just isnt practical.


Now here's something really interesting:

What about incorporating the economic 'cost' of high-tech equipment into a production schedule. The Hydrans supplied the Federation with a limited number of gatling phasers, as a result, Ph-Gs were only found on Escorts and state-of-the-art fighters which were in short supply, hence only assigned to large ships like Heavy Carriers.

The cost of equipping a ship, say with fast drones, for a year, could use up one production point. Races, such as the Kzinti, would have a racial flavour, whereby more of their production is geared to producing amunition, and perhaps it only costs them half a point.

Mind you, the more accurate or 'realistic' such a system becomes, the more elaborate it needs to be.

I'd like to hear more ideas about this one. Elaborate, complex and complicated are the things it cannot be if it were to be adopted...

So "Time Sharing" is a good idea I think and should be discussed more.

Something else I am considering and have discussed with others is to allow everyone to fly what they want w/o cheese on the map all at once. I was thinking with using time sharing coupled with either limited builds of BC's (so if u pop enough they will run out till the next build) or using the 'x' number on the map at a time idea. To encourage more players to engage with BC's perhaps we should drop VC awards with them? The penalty box would then come into effect. Couple that with other combinations... But it has to be kept simple. I dont want a lot of paper work like GW 4 was.

More feedback is welcome.




Offline Hexx

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #29 on: December 02, 2004, 06:08:13 am »

I'm kinda looking forward to a Lyran BCH with not 2, but 4 groups of drone chucking Klink Fighters.
Lets see 762 beat me then...

2 Groups, the L-BCV has 2 Squads of fighters.   ;D


Hmmmph.
So we can build a BCH with 4 Pf's but only
2 fighter groups?
Sounds like the Anti-Lyran sentiments have reached new heights...
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

Offline Bonk

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #30 on: December 02, 2004, 06:11:00 am »

While we're at it, can we ban plasma?

No need to ban plasma.  Just let everyone have the ability to buy fast drones and fighters, and you'll see plasma vanish on its own.  ;)

-S'Cipio



Roms and Gorns are supposed to have fighters, never understood why 30 years of playtesting was chucked out the window with "either PFs or fighters - not both".  ??? Therein lies the problem.

While we're at it, there should only be one pseudo plasma per launcher per mission. (multiple pseudos - talk about curds!) ;)


Offline benbean

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #31 on: December 02, 2004, 10:22:03 am »
I like the share the big iron idea.

It was done on RDSL with the Locknar ship.

Rather than assigning the "specials", have the admin create the accounts for them. That way you can limit the number of them on the server and no one gets to attached to a particular ship, other than the ship their own account has. This also has the added affect of, in PvP, you can fly a BCH/DN without the enemy knowing who is actually flying it.(is that my Romulan side showing again?;)).
ben.

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #32 on: December 02, 2004, 10:42:55 am »


While we're at it, there should only be one pseudo plasma per launcher per mission. (multiple pseudos - talk about curds!) ;)



Consider it payback for the lack of Plasma bolts. Give me plasma bolts and you can take back pseudo regen.
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Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #33 on: December 02, 2004, 10:47:16 am »
If it were up to me, which it ain't, I would take the system used on GW4 and modifiy it so that FF/DD class specialty ships are completely unrestricted (and I mean all FF/DD ships, Z-DF+, K-F5D, G-PFT etc), and I would also make both purchased BP and CP ships transferable between cycles, with nothing more than a post announcing the transfer in the appropriate thread.
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Offline Bonk

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #34 on: December 02, 2004, 11:08:00 am »


While we're at it, there should only be one pseudo plasma per launcher per mission. (multiple pseudos - talk about curds!) ;)



Consider it payback for the lack of Plasma bolts. Give me plasma bolts and you can take back pseudo regen.

Fair enough.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #35 on: December 02, 2004, 11:43:23 am »
The "Time-sharing" concept is good, this can be accomplished with Dynamic transfers.   

Like Kroma suggested, let all really small Specialty ships (DD/DW and lower) be available to all.   Use a BP/CP system similar to GW BUT allow those ships to be transfered often and instantaneously with a post on the forums.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Hexx

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #36 on: December 02, 2004, 12:00:10 pm »
What about a system where you can only fly capital ships for x days over the oucrse of a server.
Ex DH could only have flown the DNH for (say 2 days/week) or 4 days total over the course of the server.
That way your big ships would have to get passed around, wouldn't really need to resrict specialty ships (imho)
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Offline Dizzy

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #37 on: December 02, 2004, 12:26:04 pm »
If it were up to me, which it ain't, I would take the system used on GW4 and modifiy it so that FF/DD class specialty ships are completely unrestricted (and I mean all FF/DD ships, Z-DF+, K-F5D, G-PFT etc), and I would also make both purchased BP and CP ships transferable between cycles, with nothing more than a post announcing the transfer in the appropriate thread.

Posting by an RM or ARM, I'd think instant transfers would be fine.

In addition to your above idea, I think time sharing with players would be good. Spread around the Big Iron so to speak. I think reducing the number of VC's one gets for the loss of a VC ship would help encourage their PvP aggresiveness.

Offline Dizzy

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #38 on: December 02, 2004, 12:27:50 pm »
That is similar to time sharing, Hexx. It's basically however the RM chooses to do it.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...
« Reply #39 on: December 02, 2004, 12:33:47 pm »
I think reducing the number of VC's one gets for the loss of a VC ship would help encourage their PvP aggresiveness.

PvP VCs keep big Iron out of casual hands more than anything else.  I mean, who in their right mind would give a BCH to Hexx or J'inn if they are worth VCs?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .