Topic: You cannot avoid a cheese server without pissing off people...

[Dizzy]

I fight for the casual player. Always have. A lot of these type players are still around. They have families and jobs and love the game, but because they arnt on enough, or their skills arnt up to par, they never get a chance to fly the good stuff because most of the recent servers have all had CnC or OoB restrictions that strangle them. On the flip side, if you open the flood gates, the server degenerates into a boring nasty cheesefest. I've been on both types of server and I hold no love for either. So is there a way to achieve balance? Is there a way so that casual player can get special ships without the server turning into a cheesefest? Is there a practical way of doing it that is easy and simple?

 
In running my server with some sort of CnC or OoB, here are the things I want to AVOID:

1.) A cheesefest where everyone has a BC and a droner or carrier.
2.) Cutting out the casual player.
3.) A convoluted and difficult OoB system like GW4.
4.) Pissing someone off each build cycle because they wernt able to get the ship they wanted.
5.) Rewarding the 733t or nutters at the expense of others.

Here are some of the ideas that have been used or are proposed.

1.) A penalty box. When you have your special ship destroyed, you cant fly another one for 'x' amount of time.
2.) Prestige. You have to earn 'x' amount of money to buy one.
3.) Have 'x' amount of Big Iron on the map at any one time.
4.) Have a Build Points program where ships are built, handed out and kept track of thoughout the server.
5.) Attach VC's to special ships exempting line ships.
6.) Restrict special ships to a percentage of total players on the map at a time.
7.) I'm sure I missed some. Post them mb>?

The problem with the above is that in one form or another they conflict with the things I want to avoid doing in a server. I've even thought of combinations...

I'm fairly stuck at the point where all these idaes suck. And I'm invairiably gonna piss people off in order not to have a cheese server...

[FPF-DieHard]

The question is, will a restrictive server piss off more people than a Cheesefest? 

It is IMPOSSIBLE for any server to not devolve into a Cheesefest aftet 2280 without servere restrictions, OOB, etc.

[Commander Maxillius]

Romulan civil war, but have the whole server in early, say, start it in 2240 or so, and end it 2265.  That way EVERYONE has crap to fly and ya don't have to deal with the hard-coded drone speed problem.


Shiplist additions may be needed for the period before 2260 to make it interesting.

[Bonk]

How about this one: run the server on a shiplist with the specialty ships removed from production (specialed), then maybe twice or 3 times a week swap in the list that puts the specialty ships into production for about 3-6 hours, thus limiting their production but making them available to all who can afford them. I think this can be done without rebooting the server and could be automated by a scheduled batch file which could run more frequently if synced with the servers turn time and economy cycle. hmmm...

edit: We have never really seen a situation that uses the auction feature of the shipyards effectively, the above setup might actually be able to produce heated auctions...

[Bonk]

Romulan civil war, but have the whole server in early, say, start it in 2240 or so, and end it 2265.  That way EVERYONE has crap to fly and ya don't have to deal with the hard-coded drone speed problem.


Shiplist additions may be needed for the period before 2260 to make it interesting.

Anyone have the quick rundown on the hardcoded drone speeds situation? (high on the list after SQL...)

[Hexx]

For the VC's -what about a system where every pvp is reported with big ships ebing worth say 10 (DNH) down to 1 (FF)
Beating a DNH with a DNH is worth say 1/2 vps (so 5), but beating one with a CWL is worth say 4 or 5 times the amount.
In multiple ship missions you count the biggest ship, so a DNH jumped by a CWL and a CCH would be worth fewer points than a DNH jumped (and somehow deafeated by) 2 x CWL's.
It wouldn't even be that much record keeping, let's face it- with the lower player counts of today, and with hte smack talk that goes with a server
most PVP victories are mentioned (at least in passing) anyway.
We simply would need to record them.

[Age]

 What exactly is a cheese server I  keep hearing this term and don't understand ?I wouldn't mind a basic server 24/7 to hop on anytime someone wanted to play on the Dyna and for Trianing as IP you always have to set it up once the skirmish is fineshed.

[FPF-DieHard]

Best Idea I like so far is use a BP/CP system like GW4 but have more fluid (instant) transfers of Specialty and Capital ships.

[Doomstone]

For the VC's -what about a system where every pvp is reported with big ships ebing worth say 10 (DNH) down to 1 (FF)
Beating a DNH with a DNH is worth say 1/2 vps (so 5), but beating one with a CWL is worth say 4 or 5 times the amount.
In multiple ship missions you count the biggest ship, so a DNH jumped by a CWL and a CCH would be worth fewer points than a DNH jumped (and somehow deafeated by) 2 x CWL's.
It wouldn't even be that much record keeping, let's face it- with the lower player counts of today, and with hte smack talk that goes with a server
most PVP victories are mentioned (at least in passing) anyway.
We simply would need to record them.

In theory, that idea is similar to the SFB victory points system. Except in SFB it was based on actual BPV.

That might actually work as an expansion to a web-based reporting system. The one used for RDSL was good enough at the time, but both SL and GZ had far more evolved reporting systems. They included databases of pilot and team stats, as well as battle history lookup features.

What would be really cool is if someone could take the existing battle log stats from the D2 server, import them into a league-type web interface, and add the victory point calculator module. <wishful thinking>

[Doomstone]

What exactly is a cheese server

a girl that brings you h'ors d'oeuvres

[Hexx]

Best Idea I like so far is use a BP/CP system like GW4 but have more fluid (instant) transfers of Specialty and Capital ships.

That's just beacause I used big words in my idea right?
I'll try and tone down the language a bit there...

[Hexx]

Best Idea I like so far is use a BP/CP system like GW4 but have more fluid (instant) transfers of Specialty and Capital ships.

See the "real " problem with that is that if (for some ungodly reason) someone actually wanted to fly a DN.
(I have no idea why, I hate them , but some of you are looney enough to try it)
You have to admit DH that there would not be a chance in hell that poor Lyrkiller
(from the other thread... such a poor name.. but I digress) would ever get his hands on a DNH in your yards.

All joking aside if a new player wanted to try flying a DNH on a server, it wouldn't happen.
What the community has to decide id this an acceptable or unacceptable thing?

I'm more than willing to agree to such terms, but I'm not the best person to ask as I have zero interest in ever flying a DN, I
don't really enjoy flying a BCH.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

What exactly is a cheese server I  keep hearing this term and don't understand ?I wouldn't mind a basic server 24/7 to hop on anytime someone wanted to play on the Dyna and for Trianing as IP you always have to set it up once the skirmish is fineshed.

A server in which everyone flies the ships that -- in the game's background material -- is supposed to be very rare.  (because in a "real" world, they'd be so expensive to build and maintain.)  Everyone is in a BCH or DN, a dedicated droner with fast missiles, or a carrier filled only with topline fighters.  No one flies the line ships that are "supposed" to be the backbone of the fleet.

-S'Cipio

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Anyone have the quick rundown on the hardcoded drone speeds situation? (high on the list after SQL...)

In year one, you get slow drones.  In years 2-18, you get medium drones.  Thereafter you get fast drones.

-S'Cipio

[Green]

Here are some of the ideas that have been used or are proposed.

1.) A penalty box. When you have your special ship destroyed, you cant fly another one for 'x' amount of time.
2.) Prestige. You have to earn 'x' amount of money to buy one.
3.) Have 'x' amount of Big Iron on the map at any one time.
4.) Have a Build Points program where ships are built, handed out and kept track of thoughout the server.
5.) Attach VC's to special ships exempting line ships.
6.) Restrict special ships to a percentage of total players on the map at a time.

#1 sounds like it has potential.
#4 is, I thought, what was used on GW4 ... and I liked it.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Combinations sounds good.

A VC point system with build points for construction and specialty ships like on GW4, but expanded. And a second system for buying ships (albeit very expensive) so that people can still work towards buying bigger ships.

[madelf]

Expand the OOB for carriers, make it even more restrictive.  One squad type III, one squad type II, 2 squads type I for a 4 squad carrier.  One squad type II one squad type I for a 2 squad carrier.  I can hear the CVA and d6u pilots crying already.

Bump drone COST shy high.  That way no one can just affoard top notch drones at $60 a drone.  Would make the games alot more balanced between the cruisers that use their own equipment, and the races that have vast attrition units on board.

VCs for disengaging a ship that out classes you 1v1, #%$!   

Flame away, I happen to hate using AI and fast drones.

edited for spelling

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

What about incorporating the economic 'cost' of high-tech equipment into a production schedule. The Hydrans supplied the Federation with a limited number of gatling phasers, as a result, Ph-Gs were only found on Escorts and state-of-the-art fighters which were in short supply, hence only assigned to large ships like Heavy Carriers.

The cost of equipping a ship, say with fast drones, for a year, could use up one production point. Races, such as the Kzinti, would have a racial flavour, whereby more of their production is geared to producing amunition, and perhaps it only costs them half a point.

Mind you, the more accurate or 'realistic' such a system becomes, the more elaborate it needs to be.

[Green]

Expand the OOB for carriers, make it even more restrictive.  One squad type III, one squad type II, 2 squads type I for a 4 squad carrier.  One squad type II one squad type I for a 2 squad carrier.  I can hear the CVA and d6u pilots crying already.

Bump drone COTS shy high.  That way no one can just affoard top notch drones at $60 a drone.  Would make the games alot more balanced between the cruisers that use their own equipment, and the races that have vast attrition units on board.

VCs for disengaging a ship that out classes you 1v1, #%$!   

Flame away, I happen to hate using AI and fast drones.

While we're at it, can we ban plasma?

[Hexx]

I'm willing to trade banning fast drones for Plasma.