Topic: ***Announcing Slave Girls IV: Revenge of the Orion Slave Girls!***

[Dizzy]

***Announcing Slave Girls IV: Revenge of the Orion Slave Girls!***[/color][/size][/b]



Slave Girls IV will be a rewrite, or revisionist history, of the SFB timeline. It will take place just prior to the events that led to the General War and offer a different place in history for the ISC, and the rest of the galaxy, for that matter. If you do not wish to read the storyline and want to proceed to the server setup description, feel free to skip to the 2nd post.

According to info at http://www.starfleetgames.com/sfb/sfin/general_war.htm , this snipet of the SFB Timeline below precedes and sets up the storyline for Slave Girls IV.

THE GATHERING STORM

    By Y2271, the Klingons and Lyrans were on the verge of victory. The Hydrans were defeated and effectively out of the war, and the Kzintis were barely hanging onto a capital that had been reduced to rubble. The Kzintis were at the point of suing for peace on any terms they could get when the Federation, alarmed at the prospect of a Klingon Empire that could nearly equal its economic power, began taking a serious interest in the war. The Federation began its own arms buildup and was on the verge of providing the Kzintis massive economic support and sending the 4th Fleet into Kzinti space.

    The Klingons, who had been watching the Federation "wake up" and build up its forces, became seriously alarmed at the prospect of a widened war. The Empire's strategic plan was originally to wait at least ten years (after conquering the Kzinti capital) before considering a war with the Federation.

    The Klingons attempted to defuse the situation diplomatically with a protest to the Organians. They argued that Federation interference was about to prolong a war that should be ending, and noted that the result of that war would be a situation far more stable than the previous three decades had been. The Organians remained silent on the question for reasons that have never been fully understood. The Klingons began extensive probing of the Neutral Zone and found that the decrease in Organian interference was rapidly accelerating. While historians continue to argue whether the Organians were allowing a war consciously or were simply involved in some other matter and not paying attention, the eventual result was the same.

    As sporadic conflict along the Federation-Klingon Neutral Zone escalated, the Federation began to mobilize. The Klingons recognized that a mobilized Federation was a very dangerous opponent and were unable to conceive of a defensive mobilization (which some Federation historians continue to insist it was). The Klingons faced a difficult choice. The Federation seemed determined to intervene in the Klingo-Kzinti War, and the Federation buildup was rapidly making any Klingon attack on the Federation a less certain proposition than it had been before.
   
KLINGON INVASION OF THE FEDERATION, Y2271

    When the Organians ultimately disappeared in mid-Y2271, the Klingons decided to be the masters of their own fate, rather than waiting to see what fate the Federation would provide for them. They invaded the Federation on 2 August Y2271, swiftly destroying the border stations and driving the Federation back 2,000 to 3,000 parsecs by the end of Y2272.

SLAVE GIRLS IV, Y171 (Revisionist history)

     In Slave Girls IV: Revenge of the Orion Slave Girls, the Klingon invasion of Federation space never happens, or at least not yet. Instead, the disappearance of the Organians coincides with the accidental and mysterious discovery of an alien artifact on Organia by an unsuspecting Orion Slave Girl refuge and the near immediate appearance of the ISC, approximately 15 years prior to their historical SFB introduction. They quickly occupy the entire neutral zone with their massive long range echelon fleets and begin their task of galaxy wide pacification.

    Obviously, with the Klingons already prepared for war against the Federation, the incursion by the ISC into the neutral zone only further agitates the Klingon?s war plans and the spread thin ISC fleets are seen as easy prey. A full scale attack is then instigated by the Klingons and their Lyran allies who quickly gobble up large portions of the neutral zone before the ISC are able to recover and mobilize for a counter offensive.

THE START OF THE GENERAL WAR, Y2271-2272

     The Federation, meanwhile, sees the alarming advance of Klingons steadily moving closer to Federation space as a failure of the ISC to protect Federation interests. Sitting idly by and hoping the ISC repel the Klingons is something the Federation feels it cannot risk and advance into the neutral zone as a preemptive action to counter the rapidly advancing Klingons.

     Watching from afar are the Romulans who were just beginning to benefit from Klingo-Romulan trade until the occupation of the neutral zone by the ISC, are extremely annoyed by this ISC interference. The Romulans realize that with the recent outbreak of hostilities between the Federation and their new enemies that a unique opportunity is presented for them. So they themselves advance into the neutral zone pushing the ISC aside to reestablish Klingo-Romulan trade and this starts a full scale war with the ISC. Further seeing an opportunity to strike decisively at the Federation while they are distracted with both the Klingons and ISC, the Romulan Empire drives forcefully to occupy strategic points along the Romulan Federation borders.

     The Gorn, carefully watching recent events, sees the Romulan Empire?s incursion into the neutral zone as a threat to their own security and thus drive though the ISC occupied neutral zone to meet them before any strategic loss occurs.
On the other side of the quadrant, the Hydrans have an opportunity to regain lost ground from the distracted Lyrans and Klingons and begin their attempt to recapture lost space. The Mirak likewise, strike back at them as well in order to do the same.

     From the ISC perspective, full scale galactic war has broken out on all fronts with them taking center stage. Vastly outnumbered, and stretched thin over such long occupation zones, the overconfident ISC rise to the challenge and truly believe they will justly restore peace to the warring empires of the galaxy.


And thus, Slave Girls IV begins?

[Dizzy]

Slave Girls IV: The Revenge of the Orion Slave Girls Server Description

Server starts in beginning of the mid era sometime and runs for 3 weeks.

Teams are:

Alliance: Federation, Tholian, Gorn, and Mirydrans which are merged Mirak and Hydrans using Hydran interface as in SG3.

Coalition: Merged Klingons and Lyrans using the Klingon interface and the Romulans.

Pacification Force: InterStellar Concordat [/list]

Note on teams:

The general focus of this server is on the unrestricted war between the Alliance and the Coalition. Their VC's depend on their holdings in the neutral zone (ISC occupied) and in enemy space.

Meanwhile, the ISC have a different objective. Their focus will be on maintaining their holdings of the neutral zone in order to prevent the various Empires from warring with each other. (

The ISC believe that they can wear the empires out and eventually force a lasting peace ultimately resulting in total Pacification. I seriously doubt it, heh. I totally expect them to get bitch slapped!) The ISC will be limited to extending into other factions space no further than border stations (2 hexes, at present until otherwise noted). In addition, the ISC will be limited to equal pacification, when possible, between the Alliance and Coalition, therefore the ISC are not allowed to possess more than one border station hex between each side. If they have two Coalition bases, they must also have two Alliance bases before capturing a third from either side.[/list]

Here is the Campaign Map:

Organia is a 50 DV ISC controlled Planet and Starbase hex shown between K and F space. This is the 'Capitol' for the ISC for technical reasons only. This is where most of them will start off when they logon. Their true capitol is a 3x hex area in the far east.

Most of the ISC controlled Neutral Zone hexes will be 10 DV with the exception of the ISC interior along their StarBase line in the east which will be 20. The 1st row of Empire hexes will also be 10. All other hexes will be 20 with the exception of certain Bases, Planets, etc. Each Empire's homeworld will be 50DV (Some have multiple HW's and that will be explained later) and adjacent hexes to it, 30.

Without exception, each hex will have an economy equal to its maximum reinforcible DV.

Tholians:

Only known Alliance players may use a Tholian account. No incognito accounts, please.
There can never be more than 5 Tholian players online at any one time. See Tholian CnC for more details.
Thols may operate no further than 4 hexes from their starting border and are subject to the deepstrike rule.
Thols are limited to capturing hexes no further than 2 from their starting border.
Other Alliance races are NOT allowed to enter Original Tholian home space for any reason at any time.

Tholian CnC:

Tholians will will work off of a CnC rather than use RM's to run the Build Cycles:

In order to fly a special ship, there must be a player in a line ship for each special ship in play. 
In order to fly a BC, there must be at least two or more Thol players online and at least one must be in a line ship.
In order to fly a DN, you must follow the 3 DN limit rule for the alliance in addition to having at least three or more players online and at least two must be in line ships.
A BC and DN may not both be in play at the same time. You must choose one or the other.
If the Tholians lose three of any type BC they may not fly anymore for the remainder of the server.
If the Tholians lose two of any type DN they may not fly anymore for the remainder of the server.
Any BC or DN loss suffered by the Tholians are counted as VC's just like everyone else.

Map Details:

Bases will be revised as they will be destructible.

Deepstrikes:

If you draft or are drafted into a PvP in a hex that has no

Allied or Neutral hexes adjacent to it at the time of the draft, then you may not disengage and must fight to the death.

***See ISC and Romulan Special Rules Below***[/list]

Disengagement/Destruction Rule:

If you are forced to Disengage in a PvP match, then you are banned from the hex you either took the mission in or were drafted in for 'x' number of turns. If your ship was destroyed then you are banned from that hex for 'y' number of turns.

ISC and Romulan Special Disengagement Rules:

The ISC have a slight technological advantage in most starship systems compared to other empires, notably the ISC's ship based sensors which have a greater and more accurate detection range. This enables them to find the holes in enemy detection nets when operating behind enemy lines and aids in their evasion and escape of intercepting enemy forces. Another advantage is their knowledge and familiarity with the neutral zone they have controlled for some time, in addition to merchant and pirate ships which remain loyal and excellent trade and information sources. These two advanatges will be represented in tactical combat as follows:

ISC ships will be exempt from the Deepstrikes rule defined above so long as they draft or are drafted in a Neutral Zone hex (any 10 or 11 Econ hex). This is abated, however, if at the time of the draft the ISC player is in or adjacent to a Planet or Base hex. This takes into account the Base's/Planet's sensors being much more powerful than an ISC ship thus preventing them from evading detection and getting away.

The Romulans also have an advatage in evading their enemies. It lies with their use of the Cloaking Device (this exemption applies to any ship with a cloaking device). A Romulan ship must be fully cloaked as it begins crossing over the red disengagement line in tactical combat and remain cloaked (T-Bomb Flashing doesnt count) as it warps away until the mission ends so long as it is not tractored by an enemy ship in order to be exempt from the Deepstrikes rule. This is abated, however, if at the time of the draft the Rom player is in or adjacent to a Planet or Base hex. This takes into account the Base's/Planet's sensors being very powerful and allowing detection of nearby cloaked ships thus preventing them from evading detection and getting away.[/list]

Ship Replacement/Ship cost:

When your ship is destroyed, you will get an 80% ship loss. I guarantee you will be put in command of a frigate. The penalty here is that until you can find another ship in the yards (which will cycle frequently) you will be stuck in the worst PoS you have ever flown.

That being said, ALL Ships will be fairly innexpensive so as not even a newbie or casual player will be the slightest disadvantaged from shiploss. The idea here is equal penalty for casual and nutter players so prestige is taken out of the equation. 

OoB/CnC (Order of Battle and Command and Control Rules)rules cover the special ships so see that section below for more info.[/list]

Map VC's:

The usual: Border Stations, Battle Stations, Starbases, Planets, a few Asteroid, Nebula and Black Hole hexes... Something like that. More details later.

Special ship player assignments and postings:

If a player is assigned a ship by their RM, then this will be posted on the SG4 Ship Assignment/Kill thread. Once every 12 hours at noon and midnight, ship transfers may be posted by the RM's. Even tho you you may be assigned a special ship, doesnt mean you have to fly it. You may sell it and fly something else, then rebuy it, or use a different account. Also, one player may be assigned ships from other races.

Bounties:

There will be a few Captains for each side with prices on their heads. Take them down and win a prize. There will be 3x cycles each announced at the start of the 1st, 2nd and 3rd week.

PvP VC's:

There will be a Kill List thread where everyone will post their kills/captures. Every ship is worth something.

At present, it is planned that all regular line ships regardless of class will be worth 1 VC. All other Special (Conversion Point ships) and Capital (Build Point ships) will be worth twice their corresponding CP/BP value total. For example if you kill a particular BC that cost 2 BP's (refits points are added to this if any) then you get 4 VC's.

OoB/CnC (Ship buying Restrictions):

Something similar to the last GW4 server.

There will be a similar ftr and PF rule as on GW4.

Shiplist/Ftrlist and Missions:

You saw it, played it and liked it on GW4, expect to see it, play it and like it more on SG4 as the base shiplist used will be a dyna modified FS opplus 4.0.

Missions to be announced...

Server Downloads:

One idiot proof installer/uninstaller.

The test server will go up on the 8th of January. The website will go up shortly and have all this consicely organized along with all the information and rules you will need.

[FPF-DieHard]

This server should go live shortly after "War Cruiser Hell."

[Maverick]

Tholains sweeeeeet

[Dizzy]

Heh, there's an RM spot open for the Thols!

[Maverick]

hehe depends if other people intend to fly Tholian or not. If they don't sign me up lol... If they do then I just don't have the time lol

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

So how do the slave girls get their revenge?? And what ships do they fly?? With what weapons??

Slave Girl helmswoman: "Captain, we're almost in weapons range of Dizzy's ship"

Slave girl Captain: "Prepare to fire the castration torpedo!"

"Is that with or without anaesthetic, Captain?"

[F9thRyker]

As Kirk said (just before he died)...


"Sounds like fun..."   

[Sochin]

Yep iam in aswell.

[KBF-Crim]

Deepstrikes:


If you are unfortunate enough to have to disengage and come back unto the server map within a reasonable time of your PvP match concluding and find yourself surrounded by enemy hexes, then your ship is forfeit.


-------------------

Somebody wanna translate that for me?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Indeed, what if you log off and come back the next day and the entire area is taken?

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Maybe it just means you have to fight your way back home and are not likely to survive

[Julin Eurthyr]

One ISC Officer, reporting for duty and flag (RM / ARM) rank.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

"During combat, if you are forced to flee and upon returning to the map, find yourself surrounded completely by enemy hexes, then you have nowhere to disengage to and must forfeit your ship. Under the disengagement rule, you cannot disengage unless you have either a neutral hex or a friendly hex adjacent to the hex where the battle takes place. The time of the end of the mission as reported by the first combatant to exit normally from the debriefing screen is the precise moment when the above is judged."

How does that sound?

[Dizzy]

So how do the slave girls get their revenge?? And what ships do they fly?? With what weapons??

Slave Girl helmswoman: "Captain, we're almost in weapons range of Dizzy's ship"

Slave girl Captain: "Prepare to fire the castration torpedo!"

"Is that with or without anaesthetic, Captain?"

Well, there is a tell tale to tell. I do need a head Slave Orion Slave Girl. I'm thinking I'm gonna tag a very small group of choice players from all sides to take part in an occasional Pirate raid... There may be a few assigned Pirate ships... depending. And the Orion Slave Girl refuge that found the alien device on Organia that summoned the ISC to our quadrant 15 years before they historically arrived (you didn't read the storyline, did you?) may have some influence of the ISC RM in what their priorities may be. So I'd suggest whoever this Lead Orion Slave Girl vixen is, that people better not piss her off. There are only two people I have in mind that can pull this one off...

[Sochin]

Daft early noob question, what downloads are required?

[Dizzy]

Deepstrike Rule:

This has been edited. See 2nd post for details....

[Dizzy]

Daft early noob question, what downloads are required?

You will need the 2552 patch, and FS's OP+ 3.4 at the moment... and then the server D/L installer. Most have the 1st two.

[Sochin]

OP+ is that the 3.4 shiplist?

[Dizzy]

yes, 3.4

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Good Tracey. I'd change just a tad of the 1st sentence. I will 'Bold' my change ideas and 'Strike Though' yours I delete.. What u think of this:

"During PvP combat, if you are forced to flee disengage and upon exiting the mission briefing and returning to the map, find yourself surrounded completely by enemy hexes, then you have nowhere to disengage to and must forfeit your ship. Under the disengagement rule, you must forfeit your ship cannot disengage unless you have either a neutral hex or a friendly hex adjacent to the hex where the battle takes place; where you drafted or the hex you were drafted in at the time of the end of the mission as reported by the first combatant to exit the debriefing screen is the precise moment when the above is judged."

You like?

Edit: This is really not different from the current disengagement rule other than clarifying when the neutral or friendly hex is determined and when the deisengagment ship forfeit counts, which is when the 1st combatant come out of mission and reports it. Right then is when the map is checked. Thats all. Just those 2x clarifications. So no one freak out. Nothing is really being changed here.

"For purposes of determining when you are considered 'behind enemy lines' during PvP, the moment the first combatant exits the mission 'normally' is when this is judged. In accordance with that rule, if at that time you are surrounded by enemy hexes, you must forfeit your ship."

How does this sound? Trying to keep it simple.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Perhaps just tack the above on to the current deepstrike rule, as worded in the GW4 rules, which was taken from previous servers which I also wrote anyway.

[Dizzy]

One ISC Officer, reporting for duty and flag (RM / ARM) rank.

KBF Nail and you are the 1st to ask. So you 2 will be the head honchos. I hope you two like each other. I'd really like to hear back from Blade... I had asked him a long time ago. So let's see what happens there.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

1.) It's worded so that it takes into account what happens to your ship if you went into a PvP mission while a friendly or neutral hex was present, then, were forced to disengage and upon coming out, there are no neutral or friendly hexes adjacent. Your ship is toast. The past deepstrike rule was ambiguous in that respect. This new one is not. If you come out of your PvP mission after being forced to disengage, you must have an adjacent non-enemy hex available to move into or your ship is gone.

Combat is supposed to take minutes or, at most, hours, whereas moving across the map is supposed to take months.  The nature of the D2 clouds this, but any fight should be long over before hexes all around you change color.

I'd make the status of the map *before* you enter your misssion be the status that determines whether or not you can disengage.  I wouldn't make people give up their ship because the map has changed while they are in mission.  If you  come out of missions and find yourself surrounded, the no forfiet rule already ensures that you have at least got one more fight on your hands, possibley in an already damaged ship.

-S'Cipio

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

1.) It's worded so that it takes into account what happens to your ship if you went into a PvP mission while a friendly or neutral hex was present, then, were forced to disengage and upon coming out, there are no neutral or friendly hexes adjacent. Your ship is toast. The past deepstrike rule was ambiguous in that respect. This new one is not. If you come out of your PvP mission after being forced to disengage, you must have an adjacent non-enemy hex available to move into or your ship is gone.

Combat is supposed to take minutes or, at most, hours, whereas moving across the map is supposed to take months.  The nature of the D2 clouds this, but any fight should be long over before hexes all around you change color.

I'd make the status of the map *before* you enter your misssion be the status that determines whether or not you can disengage.  I wouldn't make people give up their ship because the map has changed while they are in mission.  If you  come out of missions and find yourself surrounded, the no forfiet rule already ensures that you have at least got one more fight on your hands, possibley in an already damaged ship.

-S'Cipio

Have to admit Scippy, that makes a helluva lot more sense.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Yeah, gotta go with S'Cipio on this one.  If the adjacent hex is friendly when you go in should be the determining factor.  If it changes while you are in mission, you shouldn't be penalized for braving a hot zone and should be afforded the opportunity to escape.  Space is vast; If the enemy doesn't catch you on the way out, then you managed to evade their sensors (or something like that).

[Dizzy]

Deepstrike Rule:

This has been edited. See 2nd post for details....

[Age]

I will agree  with Scipio on what he said but I don't believe you should have to forfeit your ship if you are surrounded by enemy hexes.This is unless the enemy drafts you and you lose the mission or disengage.This does sound like a good server.

[FPF-Wanderer]

One ISC Officer, reporting for duty and flag (RM / ARM) rank.

KBF Nail and you are the 1st to ask. So you 2 will be the head honchos. I hope you two like each other. I'd really like to hear back from Blade... I had asked him a long time ago. So let's see what happens there.

I would suggest that Julin and Nail contact the InterStellar Centurions (the [ISC] fellas from the PBR league; see the Orion Pirates Patrol Battles Arena forum here at D.net).  They have 14 members listed on their roster.

[Kroma BaSyl]

If a deepstrike rule is used in future servers, this would be the one. So lets word it good and try and trim it some.

Forfieting ships, as oppossed to just having to fight it out if caught behind enemy lines. I don't think you will be seeing this rule used for all future servers.

The old Deepstrike rule is better, just add the clause that determining whether a match is considered to have occurred behind the lines is based on the map at the time of the draft.

[Kroma BaSyl]

OoB/CnC (Ship buying Restrictions):

      Something far easier and much more fair to all than in the last GW4.

Easier possibly, fairer unlikely.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Yes, under the current rules you cannot disengage if you are caught in a PvP while deepstriking or "behind enemy lines.  Of course your ship should be forfeit for breaking that rule.  What's at issue here is the proposal that when going into mission when the adjacent hex is friendly and it changes to neutral or enemy while you are in mission and you disengage, your ship is forfeit.  A player shouldn't be penalized for entering a hot zone; they should be given the chance to escape.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Yes, under the current rules you cannot disengage if you are caught in a PvP while deepstriking or "behind enemy lines.  Of course your ship should be forfeit for breaking that rule.  What's at issue here is the proposal that when going into mission when the adjacent hex is friendly and it changes to neutral or enemy while you are in mission and you disengage, your ship is forfeit.  A player shouldn't be penalized for entering a hot zone; they should be given the chance to escape.

exactly, there is a big difference. You want my ship then you got to kill it first. The old rule is just fine, with the one clarification.

[KBF-Crim]

It's called cutting off your enemy. I like it. It adds drama and tension. It adds strategic depth to gameplay. It is a feature.

---------------------------

Cutting off your enemy does not mean he just blows up all of the sudden like magic...

It will add drama allright....and a bunch of needless arguements....

So what if a player drops?....how the hell do you replay a mission with exact same conditions?

How do you prove a person didnt just log on?....how does a person prove they did just log on?

What do you do about draft dodging?...how do you prove somebody avoided a draft?

I think the current DS rule is just fine...if your caught...it is to the death...doesnt mean your going to loose though

[FPF-DieHard]

One ISC Officer, reporting for duty and flag (RM / ARM) rank.

KBF Nail and you are the 1st to ask. So you 2 will be the head honchos. I hope you two like each other. I'd really like to hear back from Blade... I had asked him a long time ago. So let's see what happens there.

I would suggest that Julin and Nail contact the InterStellar Centurions (the [ISC] fellas from the PBR league; see the Orion Pirates Patrol Battles Arena forum here at D.net).  They have 14 members listed on their roster.

I already PM'd Phaser.

[FPF-DieHard]

OP+ is that the 3.4 shiplist?

The mod ain't ready yet.   An installer will make this idioiot-proof.

[KBF-Crim]

An installer will make this idioiot-proof.

  We're all doooomed

[FPF-DieHard]

An installer will make this idioiot-proof.

  We're all doooomed

Gee, Dizzy and I running a server and it takes you THIS long to figure out we're doomed?   

[FPF-Bach]

1.) It's worded so that it takes into account what happens to your ship if you went into a PvP mission while a friendly or neutral hex was present, then, were forced to disengage and upon coming out, there are no neutral or friendly hexes adjacent. Your ship is toast. The past deepstrike rule was ambiguous in that respect. This new one is not. If you come out of your PvP mission after being forced to disengage, you must have an adjacent non-enemy hex available to move into or your ship is gone.

Combat is supposed to take minutes or, at most, hours, whereas moving across the map is supposed to take months.  The nature of the D2 clouds this, but any fight should be long over before hexes all around you change color.

I'd make the status of the map *before* you enter your misssion be the status that determines whether or not you can disengage.  I wouldn't make people give up their ship because the map has changed while they are in mission.  If you  come out of missions and find yourself surrounded, the no forfiet rule already ensures that you have at least got one more fight on your hands, possibley in an already damaged ship.

-S'Cipio

What he said.

[Green]

The deepstrike clarification of when a neutral or friendly hex is considered is going to be a crowd pleaser. So far all I hear are boos. So I'll go ahead and make it so that when a player enters the mission it is then that the player is determined to deepstrike based on wether or not there are neutral or friendly hexes. That should make everyone happy. But me. ::sniff:: I like drama.

Understand Dizzy.  On the bright side, a benefit of the change is that players will be more willing to take a chance and jump in a contested area even if their side is outnumbered at that time.  Example:  8 X players online and 1 Y player.  All of the X players are working down an enemy Y line that led into their area.  If the Y player jumps into a long PvP while trying to defend ... good chance if forced to withdraw they will lose their ship.  At least with a "know before you go" rule, they would be more willing to take that chance.

[FPF-Bach]

Yes, under the current rules you cannot disengage if you are caught in a PvP while deepstriking or "behind enemy lines.  Of course your ship should be forfeit for breaking that rule.  What's at issue here is the proposal that when going into mission when the adjacent hex is friendly and it changes to neutral or enemy while you are in mission and you disengage, your ship is forfeit.  A player shouldn't be penalized for entering a hot zone; they should be given the chance to escape.

What he said too.

[IndyShark]

Dizzy, this sounds really cool! Can we see the shiplist? I want to fly a CWLP again!

[Dizzy]

Green is the only one with a convincing argument. He is right in that I do not want to do anything that gives pause for someone entering into a PvP hot zone. I'd argue till Hell froze over to get my way if I dont see merit in anothers counter argument, but I happen to agree with what Green says in full.

So this will be the new Deepstrike rule for SG4:

Deepstrikes:

If you draft or are drafted into a PvP in a hex that has no friendly or neutral hexes adjacent to it at the time of the draft, then you may not disengage and must fight to the death.

I think this is the rule everonye wants. Am I right Marines!

[Kroma BaSyl]

Green is the only one with a convincing argument. He is right in that I do not want to do anything that gives pause for someone entering into a PvP hot zone. I'd argue till Hell froze over to get my way if I dont see merit in anothers counter argument, but I happen to agree with what Green says in full.

So this will be the new Deepstrike rule for SG4:

Deepstrikes:

If you draft or are drafted into a PvP in a hex that has no friendly or neutral hexes adjacent to it at the time of the draft, then you may not disengage and must fight to the death.

I think this is the rule everonye wants. Am I right Marines!

I thought that was the rule we already had. Thanks for the clarification though.   

Now that Dizzy understands the Deepstrike rule, what else we have?

[Dizzy]

No, the clarification had serious ramifications. Dont make fun of it! If you have it so the the determination of the friendly neutral hexes is made after the draft rather than before the draft, then it changes the entire dynamics of strategic play when entering into a weakened hotspot zone. There was talk of this over Voicecomms last server, but the issue never arose. Had it, and if it involved a significant VC ship, there would be a flame war miles long. Thank me in advance, Kroma. I know you want to.

[Hexx]

Blah blah blah deepstrike garbage

Lets get to the cool stuff

Shiplists

Is SGIV going to be using those completely conjectural Fed PF's to do battle with the highly motivated
(if underequipped) PF's of the magestic Lyran Navy?
Is the BCHT going to be available?
Are Lyrans getting cool Klingon fighters?
Is the Lyran CV thingy (whatever was equivalant to the BCHT) available?

Bored Lyrans want to know!

[FPF-DieHard]

Is SGIV going to be using those completely conjectural Fed PF's to do battle with the highly motivated
(if underequipped) PF's of the magestic Lyran Navy?
Is the BCHT going to be available?
Are Lyrans getting cool Klingon fighters?
Is the Lyran CV thingy (whatever was equivalant to the BCHT) available?

Bored Lyrans want to know!

Yes, to all of the above.  Beware of the Stingers though 

[Hexx]

Bah Stingers.
I'm planning on staying FAR away from the Hydran front this time.

Was thre ever a Lyran CVA or SCS built btw?
Is it appearing in the game (I'm somewhat enamoured of fighters atm, and disillusioned with Lyran PF's)
What's it based on (ie how many guns does it have?)

[FPF-DieHard]

Was thre ever a Lyran CVA or SCS built btw?
Is it appearing in the game (I'm somewhat enamoured of fighters atm, and disillusioned with Lyran PF's)
What's it based on (ie how many guns does it have?)

The Lyran CVA will be in the shiplist.   Dizzy is handling what is available and all that stuff but I believe it can be built.

Lyrans will have the cool fighters that the Klinks got in GW4.

[Sochin]

Whens SG4 starting I have 5 interested from the 9th with interest growing

[Dizzy]

There is a server called 'War Cruiser Hell', which will run 2 weeks. SG4's test server goes up the day after that's over. So pretty soon.

[Dizzy]

Guys, the Deepstrike rule has been clarified and changed. Please see the 2nd post and if possible help me clean up this thread with all that was said about it. Unless of course you are still unhappy with it. Further comments/concerns on other topics are appreciated.

[Sochin]

So we are looking at fri 17th Dec or Sat 18th Dec then?

[Dizzy]

I'll let you know soon.

[Kroma BaSyl]

No, the clarification had serious ramifications. Dont make fun of it! If you have it so the the determination of the friendly neutral hexes is made after the draft rather than before the draft, then it changes the entire dynamics of strategic play when entering into a weakened hotspot zone. There was talk of this over Voicecomms last server, but the issue never arose. Had it, and if it involved a significant VC ship, there would be a flame war miles long. Thank me in advance, Kroma. I know you want to.

Well that was how it had always been interpreted on this side of the divide. If you where confused then instead of just blabbing about it on VT you should have asked an admin for clarification or asked Krueg to ask for you, instead of waiting for a dispute to arrise.

But the clarification is welcome, now that we have dispossed of your silly idea about automatic SDs.

[Dizzy]

Yes, Kroma. Whatever you say.

[FPF-Paladin]

"somewhere in mid era"?

Any chance of where this will actually fall?  Things can get pretty cheesed out in late, I'd like to think there will be something outside of spd 31 overrun/tractoring going on, especially given the ISC are involved.

[KBF-Nail]

Lyrans with Drones?   U should experiment with giving the Lyrans  Type 1 Dizzies. Maybe 1 dizzy mount with 2 shots. and some phaser 2's. Would be interesting. hehe

[FPF-DieHard]

Lyrans with Drones?   U should experiment with giving the Lyrans  Type 1 Dizzies. Maybe 1 dizzy mount with 2 shots. and some phaser 2's. Would be interesting. hehe

Nope, but Lyrans will have Klingons fighters whcih do have drones.

The Klinks and the Lyrans will likely be COMBINED to free up a race slot. 

[FPF-DieHard]

Things can get pretty cheesed out in late, I'd like to think there will be something outside of spd 31 overrun/tractoring going on, especially given the ISC are involved.

1.5 days per game year, I THINK it's a 2271 start.

[Dizzy]

sounds about right...

[GDA-Agave]

Dizzy, are you still thinking about the CnC rule for large hulled ships such as DN, BCHs, and CVs that we talked about awhile ago.

Reminder example:

Number of limited large capital ships for each race that can be flown on the server at any one time for each empire (number of ships in each grouping left up to server admins).  NO ASSIGNED SHIPS!!   Each empire would have to watch what ships were on.  The main idea for this is so every empire had the opportunity to have their large capital ship in play 24/7 no matter how many pilots they have on.   Hence, an underplayed race that may have only 5 pilots max on at any one time will have the ability to counter the races with higher pilot count.

Example: (each race)

1xDN
1xCV
3xBCH.

Adding a letter to the ship listings like the admins did in GW4 would be a good way for everyone to know which ships are in which category.  Also, if you make the ship cost cheap for these limited ships then everyone (part-timers and nutters) will have an opportunity to fly these big and nasty ships.

BTW, this idea was relayed to me by Fluf.   He told me that this type CnC rule is (or at least was) used in SFC3 servers.   I think it is a great idea which we should try in SFC2.


Agave

[Sochin]

Yep thats true for the last GAW campaign you could have a limited amount of DN or if you captured an objective you received a BB, most of us where flying around in BCH's

[Dizzy]

There's another thread I'm posting on about this. Some of these ideas DH and I have already tossed around this morning, none of which we liked at all... So go to that other thread iM about to post, not here please.

[CaptJosh]

Vis a vis deepstrike debates, it's as easy as One, Tsu, Three.

In difficult ground, press on.
In encircled ground, devise stratgems.
In death ground, fight!

--Sun Tsu's The Art of War

Basically, how the devil are you going to disengage into enemy territory, even if it wasn't when you started your attack? You're still going to get intercepted and pounded into rubble. Now, if there's only one hex cutting you off, maybe there could be a random chance of surviving and getting back to friendly space without being intercepted? But beyond that, you're left with being in death ground. At which point you have only one option. Fight.

[Dizzy]

+Karma to you Capt.Josh for stating the unpopular. The fact of the matter is, most players are (EDIT: too careful) and wouldnt want to risk a PvP fight if it meant they'd face the possibility of disengaging from a mission and upon returning to the map, find themselves behind enemy lines and thus have to then SD their ship as a result. This is why the Deepstrike rule takes effect at the start of a PvP battle rather than afterwarrds so players know they are safe and can freely tacobell.

[FPF-DieHard]

Dizzy, what you aren't getting is the time scale of D2.   Each 24 hours day represents a day yet battles happen in real time.  Think about it, they are right.  Out of mission time does not happen in real time.

Keep insulting the people who disagree with you and you'll find yourself working alone on this server.

[Dizzy]

Everyone disagreed with me on that, DH. In that I am unique. Ok, but I am a drama Queen the likes of which could only embarass Kroma. I deny Dizzy Imperialism exists, therefore no one will be subjeceted to my mental tyranny. I apologize to those I have offended. Seriously tho, I do not agree with unpopular rules. And my deepstrike rule was one of them so I tossed it. Period.

Edit: although I also disagree with timescale, it is irrelevant because it is unpopular. I wont therefore do it. But understand my position that regardless of what time it is or how many days it takes to be a year or whatever does not reflect the actual pace of the game and how the hexes are flipped. In the ill chance this becomes an argument for another topic, the dynavers 'time' is nothing more than a way to get to the newest shipyard releases,nothing more. Mission time and real time are the same thing. While you are taking a mission, so is someone else. It matters little how much elapsed time has occured on the dyna meter as hexes flipped are all done in real time anyway. It is therefore absurd to think that months have passed while you have been in a battle. No, months have not passed, but only a few minutes in which your allies have also spent a fee minutes doing the same thing you are doing which is changing a DV by one.

I am so mizundastood. But that is ok, cuz its really a moot point.

[CaptJosh]

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of doing a 1 to 1 time server? That is, a real time server? It'd be a fascinating experiment for a long term server. Hex DVs would have to be a lot higher, I suppose, but still, it might be interesting to do.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

MoooOOOOooooOOOOOoooooOOOOoooOOOoooooOOOo!

[FPF-DieHard]

Has anyone ever considered the possibility of doing a 1 to 1 time server? That is, a real time server? It'd be a fascinating experiment for a long term server. Hex DVs would have to be a lot higher, I suppose, but still, it might be interesting to do.

I'm not sure how to reply to this, I need to know if you are kidding or not 

[Dizzy]

hehehehehehe

[GDA-Kel]

My thought/suggestion does not involve OoB so that?s why I?m not posting in your ?cheese? post.  My suggestion is about the map.  I no longer have the 5-6 hour chunks of time I can devote to a server.  I typically log in for an hour or two (at most) nowadays.  So I guess I fit the profile of the ?casual? player. 

What I am not getting from any of the current server setups is any kind of ?sense of accomplishment.?  With regular hexes set to DV of 10, I rarely get to flip any hexes.  Now?I realize that flipping a hex is a small thing, but for me it does signify a contribution on my part that I have not been able to visualize.  Sure, every missions counts, and they all add up in the end.  But it seems to me that recent servers have all degenerated into ?space trench warfare? for lack of a better term.  Some may think this is a good thing.  I for one liked those past servers where there was a noticeable ?ebb and flow? on the map on a daily, or even hourly basis.   

My suggestion is to simply consider halving all the DV values so we get some movement on the map and casual players can have more of an impact.  The community no longer has the playerbase or the nutters to warrant such high DV values, IMHO.

[Dizzy]

My suggestion is to simply consider halving all the DV values so we get some movement on the map and casual players can have more of an impact.  The community no longer has the playerbase or the nutters to warrant such high DV values, IMHO.

tHAT IS A GOOD SUGGESTION AND ONE, oops caps, we will consider. I agree that because the player base is smaller, the DV's need to be less. In addition, that map's have gotten smaller and we have merged races together to keep from spreading peeps all over w/o any chance of being where the action is.

In SG4's map, the ISC have established a neutral zone. It's about 4 hexes wide all thoughout. Those DV's maybe 5-10. Empire border areas maybe 10 and base hexes and interrior space 20. I dunno for sure, but I agree, I'd like to see more ebb and flow on the map. I dont like trench warfare either, but it is all about balance. We will ahve to wait and see.

[FPF-DieHard]

I think more hexes woth low DVs (say 5) is easier on the server kit tha everyone dogpiling the same 4 hexes.

[CaptJosh]

If I was joking at all, it was only the slightest bit of humor. I honestly think it woluld be an interesting experiment to have a real time server in play. We could even go for a Guiness World Record for the longest running campaign server.  But the hex DVs would have to be pretty damn high or space would change hands to quickly in real time.

[Dizzy]

I like captjosh. I really do. C.Josh, yoiu're ok in my book, buddy. It's just the kind of thing I'd say. hehe

[CaptJosh]

Thanks. I guess it's just that I'd like something lon a time scale like an MMORPG, but with a setting in which I'm actually interested.

[FPF-DieHard]

If I was joking at all, it was only the slightest bit of humor. I honestly think it woluld be an interesting experiment to have a real time server in play. We could even go for a Guiness World Record for the longest running campaign server.  But the hex DVs would have to be pretty damn high or space would change hands to quickly in real time.

So what would a player do during the days/weeks it would take for repairs in the shipyard?   

[CaptJosh]

Relax?

Realistically, though, we'd need an engine change to execute this idea properly. The engine doesn't allow for the repairs to happen in real time. And in a real war, if a ship required too much in the way of repairs, she'd be scrapped and a new one given to her skipper after the inquest about how she was so damaged.

[FA Frey XC]

Consider me in for the ISC, reporting for Flag duty if necessary

Dizzy, did you hear Blade moo?

Regards,

[likkerpig]

I like captjosh. I really do. C.Josh, yoiu're ok in my book, buddy. It's just the kind of thing I'd say. hehe

Well with that vote of confidence... the rest of us hate you.
Don't bother trying to be freindly, Dizzy has already marked you.
Don't worry, we'll blow you up quick, or if we are allied - t bomb and tractor you into a planet. Nothing personal, just that you bear Dizzy's mark.
Enjoy! 

[Sirgod]

HERE"S MY PROBLEM WITH THIS oops sorry Caps.

How many Slave Girl Games have we Played. Howmany races have won? and The most important question, How many Slave Girls has Dizzy Sent to your door as the Prize?

He had a Girl call me once, It was Getting Pretty good also, and then I had To wash My eye's out with Boric acid when  Ifound Out he was just Having Kroma call everyone as a Consulation Prize. 

So C'mon Dizzy you want a Serious Server, Then you better Pay up them slave Girls to the winners. After all...


Oh wait a second, the 9th And Xeno both just told me I couldn't fly as A Pirate.

Nevermind every one, Nothing to see here, and I don't Dabble in Slavce Girls.

J'inn I'll send your check back.

Stephen

[Dizzy]

Stephen, there's no way I'm telling anyone about the super secret select few of the underground Slave Girl Trade Pirate Cartel... No way. And no way I'm telling anyone Tracey G. is the leader of this quasi-illuminati group hell bent on bringing fair green complexion cosmetics to every corner of the galaxy... NO WAY. So forget about it. Nothing to see here, move along. Move along.

[Dizzy]

MoooOOOOooooOOOOOoooooOOOOoooOOOoooooOOOo!

You mean this one, Frey! I almost didnt recognoze it, it sounded like music...

M000000000000000000000000000000000000!

Blade is back folks. Beware... What brought ya back, Blade? Was it that Green skinned Orion chick I sent over to sing you happy Birthday?

[CaptJosh]

I like captjosh. I really do. C.Josh, yoiu're ok in my book, buddy. It's just the kind of thing I'd say. hehe

Well with that vote of confidence... the rest of us hate you.
Don't bother trying to be freindly, Dizzy has already marked you.
Don't worry, we'll blow you up quick, or if we are allied - t bomb and tractor you into a planet. Nothing personal, just that you bear Dizzy's mark.
Enjoy! 

Hah. Don't expect me to go down so easily as that, once I'm finally able to get back to D2. Just cause Dizzy likes me doesn't mean I'm marked. And don't tell me you've never wondered what it would be like to have a real time D2 campaign server.

[Sochin]

What do you meen Ret you cant fly as a pirate?? Know one has said anyhting about race restrictions.

[FPF-DieHard]

What do you meen Ret you cant fly as a pirate?? Know one has said anyhting about race restrictions.

Um, Dizzy, are we going to have pirates?   We need something to fill that ISC-alligned races slot and it does fit canon and theme.

[FPF-DieHard]

What do you meen Ret you cant fly as a pirate?? Know one has said anyhting about race restrictions.

Um, Dizzy, are we going to have pirates?   We need something to fill that ISC-alligned races slot and it does fit canon and theme.

Hell, I can even give an Empire the ability ro Engine-Double  

[Dizzy]

Pirate Cartel races are classified. Ask me via PM.

[Hexx]

This server should go live shortly after "War Cruiser Hell."

When is 'War Cruiser Hell" going live? (in theory..)

[FPF-DieHard]

This server should go live shortly after "War Cruiser Hell."

When is 'War Cruiser Hell" going live? (in theory..)

I'm thinking next friday or Saturday.   The list is done, just need to find a good mission pack and the map is generic.

[Pestalence_XC]

This server should go live shortly after "War Cruiser Hell."

When is 'War Cruiser Hell" going live? (in theory..)

I'm thinking next friday or Saturday.   The list is done, just need to find a good mission pack and the map is generic.

OP Enhancement Pack v2.1 has all the missions that are current for NW, Tracey G. and El Karnak.. so those that have the Enhancement Pack fully installed won't have a problem for mission scripts... all they would need is the shiplist and ftrlist...

also the v2.1 had the directory server fix and so forth.. it is a 1 shot install now with everything current, so servers coming out, unless you are going to use custom models for the server or resize models, then all players would ever need on top of the Enhancement Pack is the shiplist and ftrlist which they could easily set up for quick switching with the Mod Chooser that I included as part of the install...


Just trying to be helpful and save players time when installing for a custom server... with Mod Chooser, a player can just overwrite the shiplist and ftrlist.. and launch Mod Chooser and it will catch the new shiplist and ftrlist and the player assigns it to a new slot.. that way if they want the original, choose Original.. if they want OP + they can choose it.. if they want the server config, then they can choose it all in 1 utility  with only a small (less than 2 MB) download to be compatible with the server (given that they are using OP Enhancement Pack v2.1)....

Anyhow, just thought I should mention this so that the packs features do not go to waste.

[Dizzy]

Pestalence... that's a good idea. Most servers should support you pack. Guess I'll need to discuss with everyone what SG4 will have in regardxs to missions.

[FPF-DieHard]

Your pack is a much larger download that what the typical installer have been, not that big of a deal for the broadband user, but we really need to keep downloads below 10 MB for those on dial up.

[Dizzy]

options for both should always be available.

[Pestalence_XC]

Your pack is a much larger download that what the typical installer have been, not that big of a deal for the broadband user, but we really need to keep downloads below 10 MB for those on dial up.

Understood DieHard.. however, the OP Enhancement Package was designed for those who are doing a clean install of OP and for the common user to have the best and most popular of everything for OP all in 1 installl or in 1 download.. which is why the package is 165 MB...

just consider.. the OP Enhancement Pack v2.1 contains 80 single player mission setups, over 300 scripts from Firesoul, Nuclear Wessels, MagnumMan, Tracey G., El Karnak, and Centauri Vaughn, the v2552 game patch, the OP bonus Missions, EAW to OP conversion with Bonus, Co-Op Ace, Sector Assault, Fleet Pick, Team Starfleet Battles missions, EZ-INI, Storyline and Conquest configuration, Mod Chooser, Fests + package, and so on.. I mean it is complete for ANY server unless the server is running custom models and / or a reconfigurec model.siz file.. other than that all one ever has to add to the Enhancement Pack for any server is the Shiplist and Ftrlist that the server is using.. and once those are installed on OP, the Mod Chooser when launched will detect the new files and the play can then addign it to a new slot in the Mod Chooser program... all without any game information loss, plus it is easy to reconfigure for single player, GSA, a Beta Server, or a Campaign server.. it is all 1 shot now...

Any time someone updates a package, I usually wait about a week then I rebuild the Enhancement Package and I put it online so the newest content in the installer is available.. however I also leave the old package up until the current server has run it's course...

On top of that, if prople on Dial-Up want to get the package, they can use GetRight download manager which will allow them to DL the Enhancement Pack at thier convience without having to sacrafice time on the net.. plus Getright supports unlimited interrupts.. meaning that you can stop the DL and then come back 6 months later and if the file is still online, GetRight will continue just where it left of whether it be 10% or 99%...

I was just making this simple for everyone...

I do agree however that people can DL the individual components and get OP to it's Server status.. but imagine the install sizes of everything that a player would need and also all the hunting that a player needs just to get on a server without the Enhancement Pack...

I mean first DL the 28 MB v2552 patch, then DL the 52.7 MB OP + with models, or even the no model pack... either or, then get the installer for the server which contains the mission scripts which will probable be another 13 MB DL.. on now add all that up for the casual user..  Thats alsready almost 100 MB.. for 65 more MB on the DL, they can have all the Co-OP, single player, Tracey G, NW, Karnak, Firesoul, Centauri-Vaughn missions, and they would have the Mod Chooser utility that will prevent them from having to use an uninstaller to get ready for the next server... I mean it makes things so much more easy....

for instance.. I have been using it for a week now without any problems getting on GW 4 when it was up and then turning around and getting on the Beta Test server, then turning around and playing Stock single player... and the switching only took 1 min of setting up each mode and to change the config only takes less than 5 seconds.. it is that easy..

Diehard, I understand where you are coming from, but also consider that the OP Enhancement Pack also fixes some single player game files and it also fixes the Directory Server game file instead of people trying to hunt down the Mini-Updater or looking all over these boards... the OP E Pack contains the Directory fix and the Mini-Updater...

anyhow, sorry for being long winded, but the OP Enhancement Pack allows everyone to be on the same page and then all a server needs to do is issue a shiplist and ftrlist for the players to configure in the Mod Chooser, and then that is it.. just join the server.. when the server is done, just issue another shiplist and ftrlist and reconfigure the Mod Chooser.. this keeps the Servers from issuing 13 to 20 MB Dl's to get on and leave them with a 3 MB or less installer ... the only exception as I stated is if the server is using Custom models or a custom model.siz file.. then a larger DL would be necessary.. but with the current status of the servers, OP Enhancement Pack v2.1 is the simpliest way for everyone to have the best of the community, ease of OP use, and be compatible with any server that is currently going up.. barring the need for Custom Models...

Anyhow.. all i was doing was trying to help and trying to keep people from having to DL 13 to 20 MB every 2 to 4 weeks to join a server when all they need is a 2 MB shiplist and ftrlist zip file....

[Bonk]

The GW4 installer was only 7MB (with modsels and missions). A shiplist and fighterlist only makes a 128KB installer.     What about servers that use models not in the enhancement pack?

You are suggesting two installers? One with missions and one without? Or no installer at all and the old "How to use windows explorer" discussions on TS instead? (recall I had to make a stock installer to get people to be able to login on a stock server, which should tell you something) Mods should be installed one at a time by the user who must be aware of whether or not they will conflict with other installed mods. (common sense - if it has a different shiplist, it conflicts..) You know how I feel about this. Multiple concurrently installed mods make making an installer, that will uninstall to a state the user is happy with, ever more difficult (which mod will they uninstall first? which one will they reinstall that has no over-installation protection?). The enhancement package only compounds this situation (thanks for finally giving up on nightsoft tho). I have had to make ever more complicated installers to try and account for this. You know how I feel about trying to compile the continually changing works of others.

I suggest if you are going to continue the enhancement package, that all modders submit the raw files to you and you assemble a single installer yourself that will allow them all to be used concurrently, there is no other way. (you can move model folders and edit the shiplists to make them all work together?)  This would result in a smaller enhancement package as well, as you could use lzma compression (NSIS) on the works! Mods are meant to be used one at a time. If you want people to be able to install all of them at once then only one person can create the installer (or a team in tight communications), otherwise confilcts are inevitable.

If I make an installer it will contain everything the user needs to login, so I only have to make one, if you have already downloaded the enhancement package and you already have the missions then the installer will back up your current missions and install its own (to ensure you have the actual version of the scripts on the server).

Its up to the admin of course anyway.

[KBF-Crim]

Being a 56k'er...I appreaciate just being able to DL an installer...for what I need rather than a large package....

Many people have all ready patched ...but need a small installer because they may be a few cycles behind on mission releases...even a 7mb installer means a short wait to get on the server....

For anyone doing a fresh install having noting else....the big pack is the way to go to get up to date....but I allready have everything in the pack...until such time as someone revises their missions...and even then they are usually included in the next server run....so its many times easier for me to just spec up to whatever server I want to play on...

And as bonk pointed out...he even had to make up a stock installer 

[Pestalence_XC]

The GW4 installer was only 7MB (with modsels and missions). A shiplist and fighterlist only makes a 128KB installer.     What about servers that use models not in the enhancement pack?

You are suggesting two installers? One with missions and one without? Or no installer at all and the old "How to use windows explorer" discussions on TS instead? (recall I had to make a stock installer to get people to be able to login on a stock server, which should tell you something) Mods should be installed one at a time by the user who must be aware of whether or not they will conflict with other installed mods. (common sense - if it has a different shiplist, it conflicts..) You know how I feel about this. Multiple concurrently installed mods make making an installer, that will uninstall to a state the user is happy with, ever more difficult (which mod will they uninstall first? which one will they reinstall that has no over-installation protection?). The enhancement package only compounds this situation (thanks for finally giving up on nightsoft tho). I have had to make ever more complicated installers to try and account for this. You know how I feel about trying to compile the continually changing works of others.

I suggest if you are going to continue the enhancement package, that all modders submit the raw files to you and you assemble a single installer yourself that will allow them all to be used concurrently, there is no other way. (you can move model folders and edit the shiplists to make them all work together?)  This would result in a smaller enhancement package as well, as you could use lzma compression (NSIS) on the works! Mods are meant to be used one at a time. If you want people to be able to install all of them at once then only one person can create the installer (or a team in tight communications), otherwise confilcts are inevitable.

If I make an installer it will contain everything the user needs to login, so I only have to make one, if you have already downloaded the enhancement package and you already have the missions then the installer will back up your current missions and install its own (to ensure you have the actual version of the scripts on the server).

Its up to the admin of course anyway.

Bonk....

The OP Enhancement Pakcage v2.1 is self uninstalling using the uninstaller.. it uninstalls in reverse order of install.. the only things it dows not uninstall is Shipedit, Mini-Updater, Sector Assault and the 2 folders that Mod Chooser creates...

Now which the mod Chooser installed along with v2.1, this gives more freedom to Modders..

what I mean is during the install of the v2.1, it will create a default point for the Stock OP game.. this way if a modder chooses to make their own shiplist without having OP + involved.. all the player has to do is open Mod Chooser, select Original and click OK.. bam they are in Default Config.. now what happens is that the player downloads the shiplist and ftrlist and then opens Mod Chooser.. it will tell them that the file config has changed and it will ask them to save it to another spot in the program....


on, same goes for the OP +.. if a modder wishes to build a mod off the OP+, then the player opens Mod Chooser, selects OP + and then DL's the Server Shiplist and ftrlist.. opens Mod Chooser again and it repeats the same process of files different do you want to save???? ...

Now if a server is using Custom Models, then so long as they make their models different file names than stock models, then Mod Chooser should back up the Model.siz file for other modes... as such, the installer only needs the models, shiplist ftrlist and the model.siz file.. launch Mod Chooser.. and wha-la.. they can save it to another slot....

to Uninstall the Mod with Models.. all one has to do is convert Mod Chooser to the current Mod (if they have changed modes), then run the uninstaller for the mod and the models are gone and the game is most probably reverted back to the state it was before the Mod was added...

Now the good thing about Mod Chooser is that even if the Uninstaller doesn't restore the shiplist it replaced, the mod Chooser can restore the files itself.. such as GW4 files installed, people's shiplist for OP + was lost.. instead of uninstalling and reinstalling OP +.. all one has to do is open Mod Chooser, select their OP + config and hit OK... bam game fixed...

If someone is playing on a custom server and goes to GSA, all they have to do is open Mod Chooser and select OP + and bam.. they are ready for GSA without having to uninstall the mod... to go back to the server.. just choose the server config in Mod Chooser and bam, they can log in...

this eliminates installing scripts over and over when people could already have them. It also backs up different game modes and so forth...

the OP Enhancement Pack uninstalls easily with very little in the way of premament game file changes.. such as to uninstall OP Enhancement, just click on the OP Enhancement Pack Uninstaller in the SFC OP game directory and follow the instructions.. each piece uninstalls in sequence.. and as such, what is left can 90% be uninstalled in Add/Remove Programs..

To remove the Mod Chooser files, all you need to do is delete the PreSetup and Mod Chooser directories out of the SFC OP game directory....

the only things needing uninstall in Add/Remove Programs is ShipEdit and SectorAssault. the Mini-Updater fixes the EGS sound loop and the Directory files and is not removable.. neither is patch v2552 nor are the fixes to the game files for the metamap.gf and metamap.war files..

if you really need to uninstall these fixes, then you really need to reinstall the game...

See.. I took into consideration all aspects for OP and the Enhancement Package.. it allows for more freedom and it provides all the files that anyone possibly needs for GSA, Single Player and Dynaverse unless you are going to use a really off the wall script..

It is not meant to be an end all be all, but it allows for server admins to have more freedom in creating their installers without having to hassle with adding scripts to the installers... thus making the DL that much smaller...

I know OP Enhancement Pack is big, and I'm not saying it is for everyone.. what I am saying is that it is a utility for everyone to have their game in a state which is very user friendly and very easy to add mods too... plus it also eliminates wear and tear on the HDD frum the install / Uninstall of a server installer.. now it is just a simple file swap of 2 to 3 files by the user with only 3 click of the mouse...

As for scripts, I understand about having correct version for the scripts.. as such, I keep the latest and newest version of the scripts in the Enhancement Package.. as such, if there is an error with the scripts, it should be a sign that the server admin hasn't kept up to date with the scripts he is wishing to use for the server.. or if the admin is intentionally running the old version of a set of scripts, it would be good to inform the community as to why the old outdated scripts are being used... but I digress.. I'm just saying that with the OP Enhancement Package v2.1, all I had to get was the shiplist and ftr list for all servers except those running the custom models required for the server... servers running mods without adding models I was able to join them easily and without incident.. and so far I have registered on 5 servers in the last 2 weeks.. played in GSA in both Stock and OP + and played Single Player in all 3 shiplists.. so far without any error (except remembering to delete saved games when using different shiplist)... and I have not had to uninstall 1 thing or add anything except the shiplist and ftrlist...

but to each their own.. I'm just saying that someone's mod will not interfere with OP Enhancement Pack in it's ability to operate correctly unless they have a file that overwortes the OP Enhancement pack's installer files or batch files or uninstall files, and that is pretty unlikely.. except for the Scripts.. for some reason everyone likes using Scripts_Uninstall.exe for the script uninstaller.. which is the same I use... but that can be avoided...

anyhow.. as I said, it is a tool to help the entire community making Orion Pirates more user and Mod friendly and to attempt to help admins reduce the files they have to gather to get the server going and to also help the casual players who use GSA and Single Player quite often..

My appologies to everyone who I may have upset... but when people start asking about what can or can it not do , then it is obvious that they have not used the latest version(s) (v2.0 and v2.1).... anyhow... just trying to help and I did my best.. I have OP Enhancement pack install in a correct order of install and uninstall in a correct order of uninstall to preserve the stock game while taking in consideration that several things needed fixing.. Firesoul did a lot, frey did a lot and I fixed 2 single player Campaign files.. as such, those fixes are required in one fashion or another (even if it is to fix annoyance [esg loop]) but the fixes work with the Stock v2552 game without anything else added... everything else is removable and easy to do so.... plus if people like they can remove individual components without having to worry about losing Original Content from the game, which is what i intended...

so again, i did my best to help... and I'll keep the package up to date... sorry if I upset any of you and I'lll no longer make comments on how the package can save admins time and sweat getting the players ready to go live...

[KBF-Crim]

I'm sure you didnt upset anyone

[Bonk]

Definitely not upset dude, just posting my opinion! (thanks for the long explanation, not done reading it yet, lol). Its good to discuss this stuff. I have not used the Mod chooser yet myself, (so I can't say much) sounds like it helps make the pack work.

edit: PS - I'm thinking I'll run the next SQL test on OP+ and Tracey's missions, since all I'm currently achieving is more stability testing anyway. Putting that shiplist and missions in might help draw a better crowd. So the fact that the enhancement pack is out there is still a help!

[Dizzy]

Well, this is a good side discussion on how future servers need to play nicer with other's mods and installs. I suggest a seperate thread. I totally support Pesty's package. I have D/Led it and it is SUPER excellent.

Here's something to chew on... Films. Most films are sensitive to the special installs, ship/ftrlists, custom model folders, etc., of different servers and having a mod chooser would be the coolest thing to make sure I have it right to watch all that.

And Pesty, since Bonk makes most of the server's installers, couldn't there be a standard by which these installers can be included into a mod swapper?

I prolly dont know what I'm talking about... I just woke up from a nap.

[Hexx]

I prolly dont know what I'm talking about... I just woke up from a nap.

So that excuses THIS time...

[Bonk]

Well, this is a good side discussion on how future servers need to play nicer with other's mods and installs. I suggest a seperate thread. I totally support Pesty's package. I have D/Led it and it is SUPER excellent.

Here's something to chew on... Films. Most films are sensitive to the special installs, ship/ftrlists, custom model folders, etc., of different servers and having a mod chooser would be the coolest thing to make sure I have it right to watch all that.

And Pesty, since Bonk makes most of the server's installers, couldn't there be a standard by which these installers can be included into a mod swapper?

I prolly dont know what I'm talking about... I just woke up from a nap.

Oops, sorry to hijack yer thread there. A point on posted films - putting the mod name as a prefix helps a lot to identify what mod you need to watch the film.

As far as I know, the mod swapper essentially takes snapshots of your OP install, so no special standardisation should be necessary. (as long as all possible affected files are involved) Though I am still unsure how the mod swapper will interact with uninstalls of various mods. The best way to integrate though, might be to have the mod swapper maker handle campaign installers as well.

Anyway, back to SG4 stuff...

[FPF-Wanderer]

Dizzy, considering the smallish nature of the playerbase at present, will multiple accounts be allowed?

[Hexx]

Well I'm planning on flying Lyran and a little Rom (to try and figure out how plasma works, killing kroma in
3 easy steps doesn't teach everything you think it would) so I'd say yes.

[Dizzy]

Absolutely, Wanderer, you can fly Hydran/Mirak Fed or Gorn Thol, whatever, but you have to stay on the Alliance side if that is what you started as. Coalition has to stay Coalition and ISC also can't fly for one of the other sides. There are a select few players I have tagged as 'flying geese' and will switch sides depending on player numbers after the first week. Three or four players won't have much an impact, but they are there to prevent a 'blowout' for one side or the other...

[FPF-Wanderer]

Thanks for the clarification, Dizzy, much appreciated.  Looking forward to the campaign!

[Dizzy]

Map, ISC/Rom special rules have been added to the Server Description post on the 1st page of this thread.

EDIT: I just hit 100 positive karma! Who do i have to thank? Very glad that I didnt hit 100 negative karma 1st, hehe...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Map, ISC/Rom special rules have been added to the Server Description post on the 1st page of this thread.

EDIT: I just hit 100 positive karma! Who do i have to thank? Very glad that I didnt hit 100 negative karma 1st, hehe...

That because you are an A$$ Dizzy, just a likable one.....

[Dizzy]

since that post a few minutes ago I got 2 negatives, haha.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well the +1 came from me 

[762_XC]

WTF?? Dizzy has more positives than negatives?!??

Get busy u slackers!

[FPF-Wanderer]

Thought I'd bump this to the top for anyone just recently hearing about it.

[Age]

The GW4 installer was only 7MB (with modsels and missions). A shiplist and fighterlist only makes a 128KB installer.     What about servers that use models not in the enhancement pack?

You are suggesting two installers? One with missions and one without? Or no installer at all and the old "How to use windows explorer" discussions on TS instead? (recall I had to make a stock installer to get people to be able to login on a stock server, which should tell you something) Mods should be installed one at a time by the user who must be aware of whether or not they will conflict with other installed mods. (common sense - if it has a different shiplist, it conflicts..) You know how I feel about this. Multiple concurrently installed mods make making an installer, that will uninstall to a state the user is happy with, ever more difficult (which mod will they uninstall first? which one will they reinstall that has no over-installation protection?). The enhancement package only compounds this situation (thanks for finally giving up on nightsoft tho). I have had to make ever more complicated installers to try and account for this. You know how I feel about trying to compile the continually changing works of others.

I suggest if you are going to continue the enhancement package, that all modders submit the raw files to you and you assemble a single installer yourself that will allow them all to be used concurrently, there is no other way. (you can move model folders and edit the shiplists to make them all work together?)  This would result in a smaller enhancement package as well, as you could use lzma compression (NSIS) on the works! Mods are meant to be used one at a time. If you want people to be able to install all of them at once then only one person can create the installer (or a team in tight communications), otherwise confilcts are inevitable.

If I make an installer it will contain everything the user needs to login, so I only have to make one, if you have already downloaded the enhancement package and you already have the missions then the installer will back up your current missions and install its own (to ensure you have the actual version of the scripts on the server).

Its up to the admin of course anyway.

Bonk....

The OP Enhancement Pakcage v2.1 is self uninstalling using the uninstaller.. it uninstalls in reverse order of install.. the only things it dows not uninstall is Shipedit, Mini-Updater, Sector Assault and the 2 folders that Mod Chooser creates...

Now which the mod Chooser installed along with v2.1, this gives more freedom to Modders..

what I mean is during the install of the v2.1, it will create a default point for the Stock OP game.. this way if a modder chooses to make their own shiplist without having OP + involved.. all the player has to do is open Mod Chooser, select Original and click OK.. bam they are in Default Config.. now what happens is that the player downloads the shiplist and ftrlist and then opens Mod Chooser.. it will tell them that the file config has changed and it will ask them to save it to another spot in the program....


on, same goes for the OP +.. if a modder wishes to build a mod off the OP+, then the player opens Mod Chooser, selects OP + and then DL's the Server Shiplist and ftrlist.. opens Mod Chooser again and it repeats the same process of files different do you want to save???? ...

Now if a server is using Custom Models, then so long as they make their models different file names than stock models, then Mod Chooser should back up the Model.siz file for other modes... as such, the installer only needs the models, shiplist ftrlist and the model.siz file.. launch Mod Chooser.. and wha-la.. they can save it to another slot....

to Uninstall the Mod with Models.. all one has to do is convert Mod Chooser to the current Mod (if they have changed modes), then run the uninstaller for the mod and the models are gone and the game is most probably reverted back to the state it was before the Mod was added...

Now the good thing about Mod Chooser is that even if the Uninstaller doesn't restore the shiplist it replaced, the mod Chooser can restore the files itself.. such as GW4 files installed, people's shiplist for OP + was lost.. instead of uninstalling and reinstalling OP +.. all one has to do is open Mod Chooser, select their OP + config and hit OK... bam game fixed...

If someone is playing on a custom server and goes to GSA, all they have to do is open Mod Chooser and select OP + and bam.. they are ready for GSA without having to uninstall the mod... to go back to the server.. just choose the server config in Mod Chooser and bam, they can log in...

this eliminates installing scripts over and over when people could already have them. It also backs up different game modes and so forth...

the OP Enhancement Pack uninstalls easily with very little in the way of premament game file changes.. such as to uninstall OP Enhancement, just click on the OP Enhancement Pack Uninstaller in the SFC OP game directory and follow the instructions.. each piece uninstalls in sequence.. and as such, what is left can 90% be uninstalled in Add/Remove Programs..

To remove the Mod Chooser files, all you need to do is delete the PreSetup and Mod Chooser directories out of the SFC OP game directory....

the only things needing uninstall in Add/Remove Programs is ShipEdit and SectorAssault. the Mini-Updater fixes the EGS sound loop and the Directory files and is not removable.. neither is patch v2552 nor are the fixes to the game files for the metamap.gf and metamap.war files..

if you really need to uninstall these fixes, then you really need to reinstall the game...

See.. I took into consideration all aspects for OP and the Enhancement Package.. it allows for more freedom and it provides all the files that anyone possibly needs for GSA, Single Player and Dynaverse unless you are going to use a really off the wall script..

It is not meant to be an end all be all, but it allows for server admins to have more freedom in creating their installers without having to hassle with adding scripts to the installers... thus making the DL that much smaller...

I know OP Enhancement Pack is big, and I'm not saying it is for everyone.. what I am saying is that it is a utility for everyone to have their game in a state which is very user friendly and very easy to add mods too... plus it also eliminates wear and tear on the HDD frum the install / Uninstall of a server installer.. now it is just a simple file swap of 2 to 3 files by the user with only 3 click of the mouse...

As for scripts, I understand about having correct version for the scripts.. as such, I keep the latest and newest version of the scripts in the Enhancement Package.. as such, if there is an error with the scripts, it should be a sign that the server admin hasn't kept up to date with the scripts he is wishing to use for the server.. or if the admin is intentionally running the old version of a set of scripts, it would be good to inform the community as to why the old outdated scripts are being used... but I digress.. I'm just saying that with the OP Enhancement Package v2.1, all I had to get was the shiplist and ftr list for all servers except those running the custom models required for the server... servers running mods without adding models I was able to join them easily and without incident.. and so far I have registered on 5 servers in the last 2 weeks.. played in GSA in both Stock and OP + and played Single Player in all 3 shiplists.. so far without any error (except remembering to delete saved games when using different shiplist)... and I have not had to uninstall 1 thing or add anything except the shiplist and ftrlist...

but to each their own.. I'm just saying that someone's mod will not interfere with OP Enhancement Pack in it's ability to operate correctly unless they have a file that overwortes the OP Enhancement pack's installer files or batch files or uninstall files, and that is pretty unlikely.. except for the Scripts.. for some reason everyone likes using Scripts_Uninstall.exe for the script uninstaller.. which is the same I use... but that can be avoided...

anyhow.. as I said, it is a tool to help the entire community making Orion Pirates more user and Mod friendly and to attempt to help admins reduce the files they have to gather to get the server going and to also help the casual players who use GSA and Single Player quite often..

My appologies to everyone who I may have upset... but when people start asking about what can or can it not do , then it is obvious that they have not used the latest version(s) (v2.0 and v2.1).... anyhow... just trying to help and I did my best.. I have OP Enhancement pack install in a correct order of install and uninstall in a correct order of uninstall to preserve the stock game while taking in consideration that several things needed fixing.. Firesoul did a lot, frey did a lot and I fixed 2 single player Campaign files.. as such, those fixes are required in one fashion or another (even if it is to fix annoyance [esg loop]) but the fixes work with the Stock v2552 game without anything else added... everything else is removable and easy to do so.... plus if people like they can remove individual components without having to worry about losing Original Content from the game, which is what i intended...

so again, i did my best to help... and I'll keep the package up to date... sorry if I upset any of you and I'lll no longer make comments on how the package can save admins time and sweat getting the players ready to go live...

I just downloaded GW4 installer on top of OP+ 3.4 and when all was fineshed just unistalled and had no problems.Why not do this agian intall on to of OP+ 3.4?When is this going to be starting hopefully in the new year as I will be over my Flu ?

[Brezgonne]

Given what I've been hearing about changes to ships, I don't think I'll be playing on SG4 even if the router issue is fixed.

There sounds like there is to much of changing a given ship to make it more like X or Y ship. If there is even that much of a reason.

Now before someone bitches about SFB vs SFC, I don't care. Problems between the two are basicly universal across the races. I refuse to change ships for what amounts to "because we felt like it". If you are going to change a ship, you better sure as hell have a damn good reason beyond "But...but... they have more AMDs than I do!"

[FPF-DieHard]

If you are going to change a ship, you better sure as hell have a damn good reason beyond "But...but... they have more AMDs than I do!"

See Dizzy,  I told you ading 4 AMD12 to the I-CCZ would not go oer well!   

[Hexx]

If you are going to change a ship, you better sure as hell have a damn good reason beyond "But...but... they have more AMDs than I do!"

See Dizzy,  I told you ading 4 AMD12 to the I-CCZ would not go oer well!   

!!!!
You told me only the Lyrans were getting AMD!

[Dizzy]

Given what I've been hearing about changes to ships, I don't think I'll be playing on SG4 even if the router issue is fixed.

There sounds like there is to much of changing a given ship to make it more like X or Y ship. If there is even that much of a reason.

Now before someone bitches about SFB vs SFC, I don't care. Problems between the two are basicly universal across the races. I refuse to change ships for what amounts to "because we felt like it". If you are going to change a ship, you better sure as hell have a damn good reason beyond "But...but... they have more AMDs than I do!"

lol, well that's positive thinking brez... Don't knock it till you try it. In SG4's defense, I think there are less changes this go around than we have seen in past servers. The ones that have changed are so few and so slight we pondered, why bother? You might want to with hold jusdgement till you see it all.

Besides, this is coming from a guy that that raved up and down about the legality and merit of flying 3x MDC+ fleets... Fortunately, brez, the game has arguably gotten better...

Don't make me take the gloves off.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hell, the X ships are gonna be bearable.

This coming from someone who has always slipped of the server when the X ships showed up.

Ask Dizzy for details.

[Brezgonne]

The last time I argued about the Kzinti at all had to be a couple YEARS ago Dizzy. And I can't remember arguing for the MDC. It sorta sucks.

Why do I need to withhold judgement when I've been told some of the things changed?

Like the C8V (and apparently others) changing two dizzys for 2 B-racks. Gee. And the reason given is "because fighters don't work how they do in SFB". Which is BS. They work as well as they work for any other race. Dig deeper and it's "Well the Kzinti CVA has 6 drone racks and 4 dizzys....". So what? If you like the Kzinti so much better than the Klingon, GO PLAY THE KZINTI.

Or the C10K with an extra ADD12 rack that was added "Well the fed and Kzinti have 3 of them.....". Nice. More BS reasons. And lets not forget the expanded phaser arcs to 'make it more klingon' despite the fact that the C8/C9/C10 series have a specific mention about how they don't fire across decks as well as the smaller ships.

I'm sure there are probably others but given the examples, I'm not likely to be to fond of them either.

If your going to try and take swings at me Dizzy, at least use something recent

I don't like people changing ships for no reason or for stupid reasons. It's as simple as that.

[FPF-DieHard]

I don't like people changing ships for no reason or for stupid reasons. It's as simple as that.

I don't believe makling minor changes so a ships is more balanced against it's peers is a stupud reason.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Like the C8V (and apparently others) changing two dizzys for 2 B-racks. Gee. And the reason given is "because fighters don't work how they do in SFB". Which is BS. They work as well as they work for any other race. Dig deeper and it's "Well the Kzinti CVA has 6 drone racks and 4 dizzys....". So what? If you like the Kzinti so much better than the Klingon, GO PLAY THE KZINTI.

Or the C10K with an extra ADD12 rack that was added "Well the fed and Kzinti have 3 of them.....". Nice. More BS reasons. And lets not forget the expanded phaser arcs to 'make it more klingon' despite the fact that the C8/C9/C10 series have a specific mention about how they don't fire across decks as well as the smaller ships.

This reminds me... I am still waiting on my extra PhG's for the Hydran to counter the extra drones the Klinks can toss out now.

IE I disagreed with those changes to the klink ships b/c while they did help them against the Kzinti & Feds, but it screwed us poor Hydrans.

[Farfarer]

Keep the Klingon ships crappier, cheaper and unrestricted - then all will be well - and reflect the "quantity and austerity" theme of Klingon shipbuilding. 

If I can keep going back and grabbing another stock C8 I don't care if I lose ten in a row trying to defeat a restricted ( or very, very expensive Fed/Kzin/Hydran) CVA+.,,and all those DN kill sigs will look so nice.

Alternatively, I'll fly 2 or 3 stock D6 and get them blown up - but it would be fun a 'realistic' in the F+E sense.

[Brezgonne]

Quote from: Brezgonne on Today at 01:22:37pm

I don't like people changing ships for no reason or for stupid reasons. It's as simple as that.


I don't believe makling minor changes so a ships is more balanced against it's peers is a stupud reason.

you mean aside from the fact that it's not supposed to be like that or if you do that you just may as well give everyone identical ships or how about the little part about when you pick a race you have to accept it's weaknesses as well as it's strenghts.

all you seem to be doing is making a bunch of cookie cutterish ships and deleting any weaknesses you find or deem to be weaknesses. The ships are setup a certain way on purpose. Tinkering with them to make them look like the other races ships while ignoring the design conventions for the race is unwise.

I mean if your going to remove most or all of the weaknesses from one ship or race, why stop there? Why not just get rid of all the weaknesses, give everyone 360 weapons and let them ignore any sort of tactics.

[Age]

   OK ,What shiplist is SG4 going to use now that OP+4.0 is out a big surprise on my part but FireSouls is full of surprises?What is SG4 going to use OP+3.4 or OP+4.0 ?

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Quote from: Brezgonne on Today at 01:22:37pm

I don't like people changing ships for no reason or for stupid reasons. It's as simple as that.


I don't believe makling minor changes so a ships is more balanced against it's peers is a stupud reason.

you mean aside from the fact that it's not supposed to be like that or if you do that you just may as well give everyone identical ships or how about the little part about when you pick a race you have to accept it's weaknesses as well as it's strenghts.

all you seem to be doing is making a bunch of cookie cutterish ships and deleting any weaknesses you find or deem to be weaknesses. The ships are setup a certain way on purpose. Tinkering with them to make them look like the other races ships while ignoring the design conventions for the race is unwise.

I mean if your going to remove most or all of the weaknesses from one ship or race, why stop there? Why not just get rid of all the weaknesses, give everyone 360 weapons and let them ignore any sort of tactics.

I believe they called it sfc3 

[Hexx]

Like the C8V (and apparently others) changing two dizzys for 2 B-racks. Gee. And the reason given is "because fighters don't work how they do in SFB". Which is BS. They work as well as they work for any other race. Dig deeper and it's "Well the Kzinti CVA has 6 drone racks and 4 dizzys....". So what? If you like the Kzinti so much better than the Klingon, GO PLAY THE KZINTI.

Or the C10K with an extra ADD12 rack that was added "Well the fed and Kzinti have 3 of them.....". Nice. More BS reasons. And lets not forget the expanded phaser arcs to 'make it more klingon' despite the fact that the C8/C9/C10 series have a specific mention about how they don't fire across decks as well as the smaller ships.

This reminds me... I am still waiting on my extra PhG's for the Hydran to counter the extra drones the Klinks can toss out now.

IE I disagreed with those changes to the klink ships b/c while they did help them against the Kzinti & Feds, but it screwed us poor Hydrans.

Please.
You just want the extra PhG's so you might stand a chance against me close in.

The problem (as I see it) was that SFB ships were (largely) designed to fight fleet battles.
SFC is (largely) designed to fight duels.

[FPF-DieHard]

   OK ,What shiplist is SG4 going to use now that OP+4.0 is out a big surprise on my part but FireSouls is full of surprises?What is SG4 going to use OP+3.4 or OP+4.0 ?

Yes, SGO will be based on OP+ 4

[FPF-DieHard]

The problem (as I see it) was that SFB ships were (largely) designed to fight fleet battles.
SFC is (largely) designed to fight duels.

Ahh!  So we should allow fleets again!   

[Hexx]

The problem (as I see it) was that SFB ships were (largely) designed to fight fleet battles.
SFC is (largely) designed to fight duels.

Ahh!  So we should allow fleets again!   

I fail to see how that would benefit the Lyran Empire (such as it is) and therefore should not
even be considered.

Ever.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

4.0 with models link not working, the other 2 are.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

...says application not found.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Are you using bit torrent?

[Dizzy]

Old news new thread.

This is more of a take it or leave it thing. Just like FS's new shiplist where the drone control of the C10K was reduced from 12 to 6. Like that will ever get flown.  

This server will hopefully be remembered for it's playability, balance, and overall fun, not to it's strict adherence to SFB. I recognize around half the playerbase is rooted in SFC, the other half SFB. You all will never agree. I would appreciate it greatly if you would not put me in the middle of this feud as I have a server to put up and in the interests of it pleasing you as much as possible, I am wasting time talking about things that will never be fully solved or agreed upon. I respect each and everyone of your thoughts and input, and it is just this that has gotten us to this point. This server has been 4 years in the making and you have yourselves to thank for it. After it's over, you are free to evaluate what direction servers have gone, where this community will go from here and such, but now is not the time because this server isnt waiting any longer for these issues to be rehashed entirely. I hope this server pleases you as much as I think it will.

So please, refrain from bitching about ship changes till the server is over. Thanks in advance.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Are you using bit torrent?

didn't try the bit torrent one...what does it really do in/to your computer?

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Increases downloading spd.

I tried both.  Bit torrent saved about 4 minutes on the DL.  (12 vs 16 minutes for 76MB)

[Green]

Are you using bit torrent?

didn't try the bit torrent one...what does it really do in/to your computer?

Found it didn't do anything negative and will politely uninstall if you ask it to after it is done.

[Braxton_RIP]

Can I still request to be an ISC, or is it too late? 

[Dizzy]

ISC is still open.

[Braxton_RIP]

Where do I sign up lol?

[Dizzy]

apply for access to the http://www.bozobits.com/forums/ using the usergroups tab at the top and select ISC.

Thats the forum they use. Welcome aboard.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Yeah, like we need more targe.... I mean... ISC pilots....

[Commander Maxillius]

Bozobits loses my passwords every time I sign up and I ran out of email addresses so I can't sign up there anymore.


I'm flying Federation, so where's the shiplist and missions?

[Dizzy]

test server goes up on the 8th. All will be posted then.

PM Tracey G here on these boards and she will get your PW setup so u can join the Alliance Officer's Club.

[Potemkyn]

test server goes up on the 8th. All will be posted then.

PM Tracey G here on these boards and she will get your PW setup so u can join the Alliance Officer's Club.

Do you have a list of what races need players?

 
Po~

[Dizzy]

Right now it looks about even, but I'd wager the roms need a cap'n or two.

[FPF-DieHard]

test server goes up on the 8th. All will be posted then.

PM Tracey G here on these boards and she will get your PW setup so u can join the Alliance Officer's Club.

Do you have a list of what races need players?

 
Po~

Sign up for the Wild Geese.   We will be whoring our way throughout the Galaxy!   

[CaptJosh]

Wild Geese? Do you perchance play Escape velocity: Nova?

[Hexx]

test server goes up on the 8th. All will be posted then.

PM Tracey G here on these boards and she will get your PW setup so u can join the Alliance Officer's Club.

Do you have a list of what races need players?

 
Po~

Sign up for the Wild Geese.   We will be whoring our way throughout the Galaxy!   

First stop: Ghdar

[Dizzy]

2nd post updated.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

2nd post updated.

<looks at second post>

It has come to the attention of the Bruce Lords of Ghdar that your map is ugly.  But have no fear, we plan to redecorate.

-S'Cipio

[Hexx]

2nd post updated.

<looks at second post>

It has come to the attention of the Bruce Lords of Ghdar that your map is ugly.  But have no fear, we plan to redecorate.

-S'Cipio

You're going to help get rid of that big brown splotch on the top right?

[FA Frey XC]

Stickied

[Dallas]

Frey twisted my arm and I installed OP. Looks like I'll be joining
you guys for SG4.

Man, I hope I'm not the only Romulan.   

[KBF-Angel Slayer]

Kill the wabbits, kill the wabbits...I am going to be joining next week.  Klingon, of course.  With luck, skill and sheer audacity, I should last...ah ten, fifteen minutes!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

2nd post updated.

<looks at second post>

It has come to the attention of the Bruce Lords of Ghdar that your map is ugly.  But have no fear, we plan to redecorate.

-S'Cipio

You're going to help get rid of that big brown splotch on the top right?

You are confusing the brown splotch with the brown stain.

The (light) brown "splotch" has already been removed.  I hear tell it was painted red, since it couldn't last on its own.

The (dark) brown "stain", on the other hand,  is about to spread.  If you have any doubt as to its permanence, check your laundry and guess again.

-S'Cipio 

[Kroma BaSyl]

The (dark) brown "stain", on the other hand,  is about to spread.  If you have any doubt as to its permanence, check your laundry and guess again.

I warned you about spice Romulan home cookinig Scipi-poo.

Blame Dr. Nyet and Scipio's hyperactive bowel.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Yes Scippy's dark brown stain will spead as he loses bowel control upon meeting live ISC opponents.

I suggest he invest in some depends or it might get quite messy in his new home......

-Chuut

"If we put in a backbone, sure it would be crunchy, but it just wouldn't be Gorn."

[762_XC]

This is turning into a very p00py thread.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well you are a "Rear" Admiral in your fleet so I guess your an expert.     

[762_XC]

Of course. It's one of the qualifications for the rank.

[FPF-Wanderer]

A couple of items I was thinking of...

Will there be a webmap?  Done up with Bonk's configuration so I can use Netscape to view it, instead of having to use IE (which my computer seems to hate)?

Next, I'm looking at the fighterlist in ShipEdit, and it's only showing Fed, Gorn and Rom fighters.  Needless to say, I'm a little befuddled.

Speaking of fighters, are you going to split some of the fighters into seperate model folders as you have discussed in the past?  Be kinda nice.

And speaking of model folders, I was hoping you could whip up a quick list of what model folders are being created for SG4 (other than the Tholian folder, which is obvious).  With all of the stuff that has built up in my model folder over the years, I'm not sure what might be new, ie what has been created for SG4.

If I can be of help with any of this, I'm more than willing.

[Dizzy]

ya, wanderer, get with DH and make sure all the races say their respective names, i.e., the Mirak = Tholians.

The folders... I think we make a few PF folders thru the bat file that copy your stock FF and the tholian folder and thats about it. We did NOT copy over anything already there like RDSL server did, so this install is completely harmless... Fear not.

The extra ftr folders, in the interest of getting the server done by this weekend, we left most of it on the cutting room floor. Perhaps DH did seperate model folders for the Hvy Ftrs. I dunno, but it'd be nice.

Afa the Webmap goes, I enlisted Bonk's assistance on it, but I'm not sure if it will fly or not. I hope so. Where is Darkelf? He had some cool toys for webmap stuff... Mb you can look into this, Wanderer?>

[FPF-Wanderer]

ya, wanderer, get with DH and make sure all the races say their respective names, i.e., the Mirak = Tholians.

Don't know exactly how I can be of help here, other than to log in to the server and check.

The folders... I think we make a few PF folders thru the bat file that copy your stock FF and the tholian folder and thats about it. We did NOT copy over anything already there like RDSL server did, so this install is completely harmless... Fear not.

Wasn't fearful of anything being overwritten, just curious if there was anything added, so I could check to see if there was any nifty models I might want to put in, model whore that I am. 

The extra ftr folders, in the interest of getting the server done by this weekend, we left most of it on the cutting room floor. Perhaps DH did seperate model folders for the Hvy Ftrs. I dunno, but it'd be nice.

I figured as much, no biggie, just thought I'd ask.

Afa the Webmap goes, I enlisted Bonk's assistance on it, but I'm not sure if it will fly or not. I hope so. Where is Darkelf? He had some cool toys for webmap stuff... Mb you can look into this, Wanderer?

A Bonk webmap should be fine, they've always worked before.  Afa DarkElf's whereabouts, he's hip-deep in RL stuff, kinda hard to get ahold of these days.

[FPF-Wanderer]

Another question I had; Diz, you said in the 2nd post that "Bases will be revised, as they are destructable".  Does this mean that their positions on the map will be revised, or that their counting as VC's will be revised?

Also, to note something I said earlier, I opened the fighterlist with notepad, everything seems to be there.  I wonder why only the Fed, Gorn and Rom fighters show in ShipEdit?  Weird...

[Dizzy]

Everything about bases are revised. Be afraid, very afraid.

[FPF-DieHard]

Everything about bases are revised. Be afraid, very afraid.

WTF were you thinking?

[Bonk]

Afa the Webmap goes, I enlisted Bonk's assistance on it, but I'm not sure if it will fly or not. I hope so. Where is Darkelf? He had some cool toys for webmap stuff... Mb you can look into this, Wanderer?

A Bonk webmap should be fine, they've always worked before. Afa DarkElf's whereabouts, he's hip-deep in RL stuff, kinda hard to get ahold of these days.

I have the D.net OP flatfile webmap pointing to "The Forge" for now (to test latest version). When SGO4 is moved to D.net servers to go live, I'll point the map to the Slave Girls IV autosave folder and edit the race names in the config. (Planet and base display can be disabled - let me know which to disable if desired).

The folders... I think we make a few PF folders thru the bat file that copy your stock FF and the tholian folder and thats about it. We did NOT copy over anything already there like RDSL server did, so this install is completely harmless... Fear not.

Wasn't fearful of anything being overwritten, just curious if there was anything added, so I could check to see if there was any nifty models I might want to put in, model whore that I am.

Current NSIS installer script attached for inspection...

[Dizzy]

Everything about bases are revised. Be afraid, very afraid.

WTF were you thinking?

[/size]

LOL! Seems more is less... From the bases before, these have 30% less power and 30% more weapons, offensive and defensive, reconfigured. It's probably good we start too hard and work down to find the threshhold where they crack and with what.

EDIT: The bases are fine, IMO. Chuut and I tested them, they are not broken as before and they are not too difficult to take down. An H-IC and F-CVA took down an I-SBFR with relative ease. Chuut got tagged hard cuz he got stupid and close. Then with me in an I-CVS and Chuut in a CCY we took out a Rom SBFR in a 30 minute fight w/o taking much internals.

I think the bases need to be tougher, but it is all relative to their cost.

I sent you a PM on the specs of the Hydran bases, of which the stock has 13 PhG's. Quite OTT. I cut them down to 8 I believe and added 8 Ph1's.

It all depends on using str vs weakness. I'll be happy to re evaluate the bases and cut where necessary, but I do think they need testing to determine just how tough they are or are not.

[Dizzy]

Admins, can you please unsticky and let this thread sink to the bottom? But dont lock it, I need to copy and paste my test. I'm planning on a new fresh clean thread with finalized documentation soon. Want to avoid confusion. Tanka...

[762_XC]

Welka.