Topic: ANOTHER TOS Constitution (Part II) Updated 11/30/04

[TheStressPuppy]

Continuation of the "do we need another connie thread"  http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163347703.0.html
I made a new thread because Part 1 was getting way too long.

Got some more done with the secondary hull. This project is taking WAY too long



Hopefully Ill finish her by treks 50th anniversery :p

[GotAFarmYet?]

The Question should be why don't we have more?

[Kaenyne]

Yeah, my thought EXACTLY!

[TheStressPuppy]

This is starting to become worse than renovating a house    Every time i fix something i find something else wrong. Now its with the pylons...as in i didnt make em long enough (theres a gap where they meet the secondary hull) GRRRRRR! Heh, sorry vent post

[USS Mariner]

This is starting to become worse than renovating a house    Every time i fix something i find something else wrong. Now its with the pylons...as in i didnt make em long enough (theres a gap where they meet the secondary hull) GRRRRRR! Heh, sorry vent post

Sorry, but is it me or are the bussards a bit flat? Maybe it's just the angle of the first pic...

[TheStressPuppy]

half of it is in shadow

Secondary hull texture done (minus weathering, and spec maps). gonna take a break from her for a day or so. The mesh flaws are still there ill correct them after i finish the textures (there r just minor tweaks needed).

Tho the textures are still plain, i did nit pick as much detail as i could into them for the "semi-canon" ship. Including the gold base of the hanger area nav lights, and the hull marking numbers. The reason im calling this "semi-canon" is cause im not trying to duplicate the version seen on TOS. While i modeled it off the original 11 footer, im using the best of photos of the greg jien DS9 TnT connie, with the smithsonian display model to fill in the gaps. weathering will be like the DS9 trial and tribbulations model (for those that didnt read part 1 of this thread).

Last shots of secondary hull, just the pylons and nacelle left to go

[wulf111]

damn fine looking ship you have there

[Sandman3D]

DAMN, that's looking fine!!

[Azel]

OK... If this does not become the most accurate TOS connie...Man you are SOOO Fired...lol
Great work

[TheStressPuppy]

Accuracy is one thing, Playability is another, im shooting for the latter while trying to keep it as accuate as possible

[Azel]

Aye

[markyd]

That is looking awsome.... If I was to change one thing though I would add Atrahasis style windows... the seems to add depth like you can actually see things in them.... Awsome work dude 

[Rogue]

It's been fun watching this develop. There are a number of features that I like. The inset impulse and the viewports are working very well. The deflector dish structure
and sensor dome is looking real good.

One of my favorite things to do with that series of Federation impulse engines is to give the exausts the color of something like a faded brick and use the illumination map for the nice cherry red glow. When you get a good angle during a turn you get a nice glow effect from it that I'm very fond of. Maybe I'm easily amused but if you get the right combination of colors I think it is worth the effort.

[TheStressPuppy]

The "Atra" style windows are a double edged sword. I personally like them, alot of people i know do not. In version 2 of my connie i used the atra style windows. In fact i used the windows off his Detroyat model slightly modified, and bussard caps from Andurils connie, because back in 2000 i had VERY bad texturing skills. Alot has changed since then

Getting back to the point, The majority of people that didn't like the atra windows said they made the ship look too cartoonish (where they got that from i have no clue). Others were just "purist" that wanted the ship to look as if it just came off the TV show. Film grain, bad lighting, and all   I'm still considering doing the "Atra" style, but in the way Greg Jien did with the TnT ship. On the front saucer windows you can see a shadow of what looks like a person standing at the window. That is a cool effect IMO. Not a clear window, but clear enough to see silhouette's, and shadows.

Now for the Impulse engine exhaust.... That part of the ship as you can see I'm going way off canon with. On the studio model there is a slight depression on the vents that is hardly noticeable from a distance, because the vents are black. I chose to do a TMP style exhaust with a red glow, and make the engines set deeper inside. I chose a red glow because the ST:TMP connie is supposed to be the TOS connie. Refit and redesigned, but retaining some components of the original ship. Basically the next step in its evolution. The glow is there, but you can hardly see in the renders, because of the way the light is pointing. In game the glow will be much brighter.

LOL i feel like I'm writing a "how to build" a connie novel here   Anyways.. i got an opinion to ask. On the nacelle pylon outboard sides, there are 3 windows. Why they are there to begin with is beyond me, but they are there. Should they be Lit, or should i leave em black?

[S33K100]

The windows should probably be lit in the pattern they were in the show and as far as I'm aware those are not windows, besides the stupidity of their placement (no space for a room behind them) they're never lit in the show and I always assumed they were something to do with the plasma conduit thingies running through the pylons.

P.S. will the more canon version have the proper lit/dark arrangement? As I think there are some balck rectangles on the neck that really didn't look like windows either.

P.P.S. are you sure about the colour on the lights under the shuttlebay, I don't have good reference on hand but every model of the connie I've got has the centre light as blue and the 4 outer lights as red.

[Lord Schtupp]

On the nacelle pylon outboard sides, there are 3 windows. Why they are there to begin with is beyond me, but they are there. Should they be Lit, or should i leave em black?

IMO no. They're not normally inhabited rooms behind them, just the jeffries tube, so I would have to say no.

[markyd]

Which ever window style you choose it will look awsome 

[Age]

  Looks great can't get enough of this ship .It has great detailing  good jop.

[TheStressPuppy]

The whole point of this model is not to make another Enterprise. i think we have more than enough of those. This model is a master template for future ships, and kitbash's. It would look silly if we had a whole fleet of ships that had the same configuration of windows unlit. This is another thing I'm going off canon with. All of the windows with the exception of the pylon will be lit just as with the TMP, and ENT era ships. If people want the unlit windows they can black them out themselves. Its really not that hard to do, and im providing the layered PSD's to do it with in this model.

The shuttlebay light color is dead on according to my reference which is photos of the studio model itself. You can check them here http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/1701.htm  From what i can tell  Its dark red, dark green, and amber. In the renders they are lit.  In the show you couldn't really see the shuttle bay lights cause of the bad film quality. You can barely make them out in the best of shots

OK, so unlit the pylon is. Those windows make absolutely no sense at all, but since they are on the studio model they go on my model :/ I didn't design her I'm just building her I'm gonna try and duplicate the grill pattern on the inboard sides with a chrome texture, YES Chrome! lol they used chrome for the 2000 restoration of the 11 footer. The warp grills are also chrome as you can see from pics on that link. The Jien model also uses chrome warp grills.

Happy Thanksgiving

[USS Mariner]

The whole point of this model is not to make another Enterprise. i think we have more than enough of those. This model is a master template for future ships, and kitbash's. It would look silly if we had a whole fleet of ships that had the same configuration of windows unlit. This is another thing I'm going off canon with. All of the windows with the exception of the pylon will be lit just as with the TMP, and ENT era ships. If people want the unlit windows they can black them out themselves. Its really not that hard to do, and im providing the layered PSD's to do it with in this model.

The shuttlebay light color is dead on according to my reference which is photos of the studio model itself. You can check them here http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/1701.htm  From what i can tell  Its dark red, dark green, and amber. In the renders they are lit.  In the show you couldn't really see the shuttle bay lights cause of the bad film quality. You can barely make them out in the best of shots

OK, so unlit the pylon is. Those windows make absolutely no sense at all, but since they are on the studio model they go on my model :/ I didn't design her I'm just building her I'm gonna try and duplicate the grill pattern on the inboard sides with a chrome texture (just gotta learn how to make chrome).

Nice. I see why they are colored that way: traffic lights for shuttlecraft.

Anyway, just a question, but is the aft shuttlebay dome connected to the aft shuttlebay window? They are actually different diameters and the windows is a bit more set back than the dome. Just curious...

[TheStressPuppy]

OK so i lied, i couldnt resist working on her some more. got some nacelle and pylon stuff done. just the basics, the details will come later




The shuttle observation dome, and connecting window are the same diameter but on my model i shaved off a few polys in the area above the hanger door, which is prolly why it looks different. The dome is 8 sided while the window area is a 4 sided half cylinder. i dont expect people to zoom all the way up to the hanger so i dont see it as an issue. remember playability

[ModelsPlease]

Extensive ogling !!!!! 
-MP

[S33K100]

K, looks fantastic in the latest shots and all, but I went to the link of the Smithsonian version and lo and behold:

http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image60.jpg
http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image62.jpg
http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image68.jpg

blue centre light, some of the far away ones look vague enough that they give the impression of green, but in 60 and especially in 62 which are the best shots of it the light is clearly blue, I even took the photo into PSP7 and checked the RBG values across that area - it's always biased heavily towards blue, with a fair bit of green and very little red. Don't mean to nitpick but given the lengths you've gone to over the detail I thought it should be pointed out.

One question that you've probably already answered and I haven't noticed but, are the warp grilles gonna be lit in this version like the impulse engines?

[USS Mariner]

K, looks fantastic in the latest shots and all, but I went to the link of the Smithsonian version and lo and behold:

http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image60.jpg
http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image62.jpg
http://www.mjtsc.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk/new/images/image68.jpg

blue centre light, some of the far away ones look vague enough that they give the impression of green, but in 60 and especially in 62 which are the best shots of it the light is clearly blue, I even took the photo into PSP7 and checked the RBG values across that area - it's always biased heavily towards blue, with a fair bit of green and very little red. Don't mean to nitpick but given the lengths you've gone to over the detail I thought it should be pointed out.

One question that you've probably already answered and I haven't noticed but, are the warp grilles gonna be lit in this version like the impulse engines?

Yet in the series it glows green whilst lit.

http://www.starshipbuilder.com/startrek_tos/tos_dvd_series17.JPG
http://www.starshipbuilder.com/startrek_tos/tos_dvd_series18.JPG

A blue-green color isn't bad though. Maybe a blue texture with a green glow?

[TheStressPuppy]

I'm going by what Ive seen on the screen caps. U have to remember the connie at the Smithsonian was restored twice, so they could have changed, and replaced some things, and made em different from the original model. I prefer to keep the lights as with the screen caps. If i alter the color on the texture, and make the light maps the color of the caps it will look real funky in a render, and in game, cause those colors will blend together. I consider the bay lights a Non-issue, because in game at the closest you can zoom the whole ship still fills the screen.The lights will hardly be noticeable like they are in the renders. Ive zoomed in extremely close for the renders. IMO green, red, and amber is the color they were meant to be.

For the master version the warp grills will not be lit. They will be chrome as with the reference. However i will make an alternate lit version, just as I'm making an alternate black impulse version. I may throw in an alternate version where some of the windows are blacked out as on the references. This will make for a huge download when its done. including the bump specular and illumination maps were looking at 24 1024x1024 textures just for the basic ship. This is not including the registry templates, and the alternate textures. Plus the reference blueprints, original PSD's, hull font etc...  might become a 50+ meg download!

[USS Mariner]

I'm going by what Ive seen on the screen caps. U have to remember the connie at the Smithsonian was restored twice, so they could have changed, and replaced some things, and made em different from the original model. I prefer to keep the lights as with the screen caps. If i alter the color on the texture, and make the light maps the color of the caps it will look real funky in a render, and in game, cause those colors will blend together. I consider the bay lights a Non-issue, because in game at the closest you can zoom the whole ship still fills the screen.The lights will hardly be noticeable like they are in the renders. Ive zoomed in extremely close for the renders. IMO green, red, and amber is the color they were meant to be.

For the master version the warp grills will not be lit. They will be chrome as with the reference. However i will make an alternate lit version, just as I'm making an alternate black impulse version. I may throw in an alternate version where some of the windows are blacked out as on the references. This will make for a huge download when its done. including the bump specular and illumination maps were looking at 24 1024x1024 textures just for the basic ship. This is not including the registry templates, and the alternate textures. Plus the reference blueprints, original PSD's, hull font etc...  might become a 50+ meg download!

Put them in separate downloads then. :p

Anyways, when I say "lit nacelles," what I'd like to see is the original grill with the light sources behind it, not ultra bright like the Ambassador and other modern ships. Not overly bright but bright enough to notice there's a difference. Obviously this'll be easier with bump maps and what not. Also, will you hide the weapons behind hatches, and what would the weapon placement be? Would it be just the two known phasers or something closer to the TMP Enterprise?

[TheStressPuppy]

The semi-canon will have its weapons hidden ala the tv series (in otherwords nothing). The "enterprised" version will have visable phaser emmiters, and a single torpedo tube in thier canon firing points, along with a few extra phasers in non-canon spots. i havnt determined how many it should have tho. whatever it has thier placements will be in line with the TMP ship

[Bernard Guignard]

Hi StressPuppy
    Thats some very nice work and I'm looking forward to seeing the final version. Thanks for sharing your vision with us. Keep up the great work 

 

 

[TheStressPuppy]

I dont belive this.... Alan Sinclair updated his TOS connie blueprints! Ive been working with an obsolete set. U can see his update here  http://www.angelfire.com/scifi2/wizardofflight/TOS1701.html  This means im gonna have to do more corrections on the mesh :/

[E_Look]

Heh!

Ain't progress wonderful!

But hey, so what?  Your models are excellent!

[TheStressPuppy]

More work done. The new prints werent any different than the old measurment wise. just some minor cosmetic changes were made.

I fixed the upper bridge superstructure, and narrowed the aft end a little to make it match closer to the studio model shots (eyeball measure).
textured 75% of the nacelle. the model is 80% done with the base mesh and texture. I still have to rebuild the lower saucer.

I like how these bussards turned out tried to match the screen caps as close as i could. these are TOS bussards not greg jien bussards. Jien use nothing but red light in his, and he used 24 thinner turbine blades not 12 like on the original. i liked the multicolored christmas bulb effect of the original.


I fixed the impulse glow and made it a little brighter. the warp grills are from the 2000 smithsonian restoration connie.


another shot of the warp grills


Now for an extreme close up showing the pylon and warp grill pattern. what a difference bump mapping makes .

[markyd]

That is gonna be one fine ship when she is done 

[TheStressPuppy]

The intercoolers are done. nacelle texture is all but complete (minus the registrys wich will come much later) Still have the end cap grill pattern to do, but ill do that later.




and another bussard shot

[Chris Johnson]

Your Constitution-class is coming up quite beautifully... I await when it'll be done, whenever that'll be.  Although the urge of impatience is probably on a great many people, I know art takes time, and with how you take your time it is more-than worth the wait.  Just keep taking your time like you are and I'm sure you'll be closer to perfection.

[Darth Chandley]

Wonderfull!!!

Inspiring work indeed.....

DC

[Sandman3D]

WOW!!

[Rod ONeal]

Ahem... So, what's up? News, please! 

[scylis]

now, you've said there'll be two versions, semi-cannon and non-, but from what you've said on the previous thread, both will be weathered. is there the possibility to get one without weathering? not that i don't think that the weathering is justified, but the Big E is oft mentioned or refered to as the flagship of the fleet, even if unofficially. i'm rather fond of the idea of Starfleet giving Her the once over before sending Her to big events and the like. you know, wash'n'wax, fresh coat of paint, get Her detailed and such. She IS easily one of the most well know ships of the period, even durring Her service life. maybe not completely weathering-free, but very miniscule(however you spell it). the equivalent of the tiny bit o' dirt you get on your tires and such on the way from the car wash to the parade you're in.

it's just a thought.

[Rod ONeal]

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