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Offline Sirgod

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Congress Approves NASA budget
« on: November 23, 2004, 12:16:22 am »
http://www.space.com/news/nasa_budget_041122.html

CAPE CANAVERAL -- Sending people to the moon and Mars is no longer just President Bush's vision. It's officially the United States' new mission in space.

Congress voted Saturday to give NASA all of the $16.2 billion it sought for 2005, money not only to return the space shuttles to flight but also to start designing a replacement spaceship and planning moon missions.

"This is a great day for NASA, and a great day for the Space Coast," said U.S. Rep. David Weldon, R-Melbourne, who sits on the powerful House Appropriations Committee that controls the federal budget.

The NASA budget got lumped in with everything else in a two-foot thick budget document that left some members of Congress complaining they did not have enough time to read it before they had to vote on it. Still, the House voted 344-51 to approve it Saturday afternoon. Senate approval was expected hours later.

The 6 percent increase for NASA was remarkable in many ways. First, tight budgets forced the president and Congress to all but freeze spending for projects unrelated to fighting terrorism or national defense.

Also, Congress has grown cold to NASA's requests for big investments in new space projects. A similar proposal by President Bush's father was dead on arrival in Congress.

Critics who argued that money spent on space could be better invested on Earth gained new political ammunition when NASA admitted in 2001 that the space station was more than$5 billion over budget. The agency's been on a sort of political and financial probation ever since.

Bipartisan skepticism of NASA proposals reigned, even after the Columbia shuttle disaster brought calls for a more defined mission for the nation's space agency.

This time, the political dynamic was different. Bush introduced the new vision Jan. 14, then let Vice President Dick Cheney and NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe sell it to Congress. They got help from a quiet, but effective lobbying effort by the aerospace contractors who stand to profit from the projects.

Meanwhile, Bush said nothing about NASA during the presidential campaign, although his top budget aides threatened to veto any spending bill that did not include full funding for his space plan.

Congress didn't seem interested, and the House even passed a budget that slashed almost a billion dollars from the NASA request. The Senate was more generous, but the budget did not pass before Congress went on break for the November elections. That left NASA's fate to behind-the-scenes negotiations.

Luckily for the agency, it has friends in high places. Sen. Bill Nelson, who flew on the shuttle, is an ardent NASA supporter with influence among Democrats. Weldon's seat on the appropriations committee helps.

However, the most influential negotiator was House Majority Leader Tom DeLay, R-Texas, who represents thousands of space workers at the Johnson Space Center in Houston.

House and Senate negotiators came back Friday evening with a bill still $300 million short of the NASA request. Weldon said DeLay told counterparts he would not let the budget bill come up for a vote Saturday -- when there was a midnight deadline for passing a 2005 budget -- unless NASA got what Bush asked for.

"He really made a goal-line stand," Weldon said.

Frank Sietzen, who was a spokesman for the Bush presidential campaign on space policy issues, said the budget approval was a huge victory for NASA.

"A bi-partisan coalition came together to win the passage," Sietzen said. "That coalition will also be needed in a few months to see the 2006 submission through the political thicket."

Beyond just the money, it appears Congress is willing to give NASA some leeway it has not had since the space station debacle.

"The agreement gives NASA almost total funding flexibility," said a summary of the budget released by the House Appropriations Committee. "This flexibility is unprecedented and gives the administrator broad latitude to implement the president's vision for space within the funds provided in the bill."

However, leaders in both parties still have hard questions. Among them: how NASA will fund and field a mission to repair the aging Hubble Space Telescope and how the agency will deal with escalating costs associated with making safety fixes to return the shuttles to flight next year.

The Congress is demanding reports from NASA Administrator Sean O'Keefe on those two issues within 60 days, including whether paying for those efforts will mean cuts to other space or science projects.

Despite the knowledge that NASA received full total funding, specific numbers about how much was awarded for individual NASA projects might not be available until early next week.

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Outstanding news Indeed.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline _Rondo_GE The OutLaw

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #1 on: November 23, 2004, 12:40:25 am »
Screw the space shuttles...spend it all on returning to luna firma and Mars.  Let the private sector take on the shuttle mission.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #2 on: November 23, 2004, 12:41:09 am »
I could go for that. Or Even developing Tech for asteroid Mining.

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #3 on: November 23, 2004, 12:45:44 am »
I have to agree, private industry can launch satelites at a lower cost then NASA. Private deployment missions have always been an excuse to help offset the high cost of our shuttles.

"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #4 on: November 23, 2004, 07:57:40 pm »
Cool, but is this a 16.2 billion increase, or a total budget for NASA?
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
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Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2004, 01:52:32 am »
Total Budget.

I just hope the people at NASA shoot down the "Apollo style" CEVs...We don't need to be retreading the past, an Apollo module would stand no chance to getting to Mars with the crew still healthy.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

KnightAdvancer

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2004, 05:31:29 am »
Excellent.

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2004, 08:59:35 am »
If that is the total budget, then NASA is barely a drop in the bucket of government spending.  I wonder why they didn't approve an increase before considering this.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2004, 01:37:07 pm »
Politics of the Post-Cold War Era saw no need for new innovative Space policies.  That is the primary reason why we're still using the Shuttle (at least we will be next year) twelve years after it was supposed to be retired.  When the Soviet Union collapsed, NASA suddenly found itself without a serious competitor in what was dubbed the "Space Race".  Congress saw a chance to curtail excessive NASA spending which was slated to allow for the construction of the Shuttle's successor, out of fear of a massive deficit that would have shut down our government (It still did, just not on the scale that was estimated)  Now that China is getting into the "Space Race" the US has some pride to maintain and can't allow the Chinese to overtake them in the space industry, which is exactly why President Bush unveiled his new space initiative when he did.

As an aside, its quite Ironic that the same Reagan style spending that did in the Soviet Union, very nearly did the United States in as well.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2004, 09:51:02 pm »
Yes, but cutting spending on NASA was still a bad move.  There is much we can get from more advanced space travel in raw resources alone.  Plus, all of the technology gained for society from the mercury and apollo programs makes it worth it alone.  bad move to cut back in this area. Major bad move.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Puddleoguts

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #10 on: November 25, 2004, 10:48:44 pm »
We have other budgetary priorities.

I wonder what NASA could have done with what we've spent in Iraq the last year.
You can't just ignore bits of data that you don't like.

Offline Sirgod

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2004, 09:19:43 am »
We have other budgetary priorities.

I wonder what NASA could have done with what we've spent in Iraq the last year.

Spend It?

Stephen
"You cannot exaggerate about the Marines. They are convinced to the point of arrogance, that they are the most ferocious fighters on earth - and the amusing thing about it is that they are."- Father Kevin Keaney, Chaplain, Korean War

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2004, 01:57:32 pm »
I'm sure they could have spent it in spades.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline J. Carney

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2004, 02:05:37 pm »
[aside] Well, it remains that things on Earth are far more important than those in space. I personally think my tax money was well spent. [/aside]

I would have loved to see NASA get anough funding to have started to work on some long-duration ship plans... not like Mars, think more like Alpha Centauri or other things within 15 LY or so of Earth.

If we could devise something that would accelerate a ship to 1/3 the speed of light, targets that close could be reached. Now of course, the crew would all have to be 18-20 and ready to devote a lifetime to the trip- not to mention that of their children, for making the return leg- but doing something like that is not as far off as it would seem. A billon or so would have gone a long way towards doing that, for sure.

Still in all, this is a big step in the right direction. NASA is getting more money, and the Chineese are going to be the new Russia in the Space Race.

I look for NASA to start getting it in gear soon.
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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2004, 10:37:05 pm »
I just hope that the vague plans set forth are enough to get us going.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Just plain old Punisher

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #15 on: December 03, 2004, 03:52:54 am »
joygasm!!! Means we can sell more 500 dollar hammers ... its Christmas bonus time!

"Sex is a lot like pizza.  If you're not careful you can blister your tongue". -Dracho

Offline theSea

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #16 on: December 03, 2004, 10:09:33 am »
We have other budgetary priorities.

I wonder what NASA could have done with what we've spent in Iraq the last year.

I don't know about NASA but for 80 billion, if we put our minds to it, I'm pretty sure we could have solar power satelites pushing microwaves to an array in the desert someplace and enough kilowatt hours from the sun to tell the whole middle east to eat their oil or go make glass and plastic... but that would be SENSE and we're talking about the government here.

theSea

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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #17 on: December 03, 2004, 11:14:46 pm »
That would be a good idea, and 80 billion is only a drop in the bucket for governement spending.  But then, the government is not concerned ultimately with the security and terrorist issues we face.  If they were, then this issue would be under much better control than it is currently.  Notice i didn't say problem solved, just under better control. 
I hold the belief that government is under the delusion that they need to serve big business, and possibly they also believe that serving big business is the best thing for us little guys.  Big business relies on oil, ergo we will keep using it for the forseeable future.
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Lieutenant_Q

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Re: Congress Approves NASA budget
« Reply #18 on: December 04, 2004, 01:59:38 am »
Actually I did a little bit of research on where all our money goes in regards to the government, or actually what percentage goes where.  And while it varies from year to year, heck, some times month to month.  A large part of out budget is locked in place due to an obscure bill that was passed in the 50s.  This bill essentially put us, or tried to put us, on the Welfare state.  It ensured that federal programs like Medicaid, Welfare, Housing...etc. would remain fully funded regardless. This was passed during a time when the Democrats (I wont call them socialists...not yet anyway...lets see where they go following this election) had a solid control of both houses, the Executive, and the Judiciary.  The Bill cannot be striken without two-thirds vote in both houses, and no Democrat is going to cross party lines to kill it.  Many people wonder why it should be killed in the first place.  Well...take a good long look at Europe, if you like what you see, beneath the gloss that they try to put up, then sure let's keep it.  But the simple fact of the matter is, Europe is descending into Chaos faster than they are willing to admit.  Unemployment is through the roof, its hovering above 5% here, France has 16%.  People in Germany were promised free health care from birth, they can't afford it anymore, if you have a job, you have to pay for it on your own, so that they have enough to cover the people on the dole.  I've heard but have not yet confirmed that most of Western Europe cannot work anymore than 35 hours a week, at all, they wont be able to compete with those that still have 40 hour work weeks with paid overtime.  With these problems, plus their net Emigration, they have no business trying to position themselves as the world's second superpower.  Those on the left think we need to be more like them, I think we need to distance ourselves from them, because they are on the verge of repeating history, and it's not a history I hope we ever see repeated again.
"Your mighty GDI forces have been emasculated, and you yourself are a killer of children.  Now of course it's not true.  But the world only believes what the media tells them to believe.  And I tell the media what to believe, its really quite simple." - Kane (Joe Kucan) Command & Conquer Tiberium Dawn (1995)