Topic: PPD Suggested rules (Read 8138 times)

Mutilator · « **on:** November 12, 2004, 08:36:32 pm »

Sifting through the PPD thread here are the four proposed ideas that I see on the PPD. If I missed someones suggestion please add it to the mix. Sound off on the option you would like to see in cycle one.

1. The lead ship could only carry 2 PPD's as its limit while the other 2 ships may carry a single PPD totaling a maximum of 4 PPD's or the lead ship may carry all 4 PPD's and the other's would not have any.

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

3. 4 PPD limit on a 3 ship fleet no restriction on what ship(s) have the PPDs

4. PPD's as deployed on the 'Lead' ship (no limit) plus an additional ISC ship that carried only 1 PPD

Green · « **Reply #1 on:** November 12, 2004, 10:35:37 pm »

No dog in the fight ... so no strong position on the rule.

But what are (if any) the SFB rules on PPD numbers in a 3-ship fleet?

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #2 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:15:08 pm »

That would be rule #4, which was the original PBR rule for it

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #3 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:19:51 pm »

Quote from: KHH Jakle on November 12, 2004, 11:15:08 pm

That would be rule #4, which was the original PBR rule for it

Right, didn't they refer to it as the "Gunline" or something?

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #4 on:** November 12, 2004, 11:31:35 pm »

Quote from: Kroma on November 12, 2004, 11:19:51 pm

Quote from: KHH Jakle on November 12, 2004, 11:15:08 pm
That would be rule #4, which was the original PBR rule for it

Right, didn't they refer to it as the "Gunline" or something?

The Gunline was actually the forward portion of the Echelon Formation, made up of FF's, DD's - maybe anchored in the center by a CL (in a large fleet). The PPD's were usually reserved for the Flag ship and perhaps (if the formation was large enough) for one or two other large ships directly in front of the Flag ship.

The idea was, the gunline had the straight plasma armament, that is scary enough to tackle head on. Meanwhile the long range PPD would be firing through the gunline at any approaching ships.

The actuall PPD deployment limit is: Whatever the Flagship carries, plus an extra PPD for every 3 ships in the fleet, so: +1 for 3 ships, +2 for 6, +3 for 9, +4 for 12.

So for a full fleet formation, you'd expect to have the 4 PPD's of the DN and the rear of the echelon, then two CA's directly to it's left and right front with the other 4 PPD's (2 each). That's 8 - all usually zero'd in on a single target.

FPF-DieHard · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2004, 12:30:58 am »

Quote from: Mutilator on November 12, 2004, 08:36:32 pm

4. PPD's as deployed on the 'Lead' ship (no limit) plus an additional ISC ship that carried only 1 PPD

This option has the best combination of simplicity and balance.

Corbomite · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2004, 07:28:40 am »

I believe you are interpreting the rule incorrectly. It states:

(E11.17) FLEET LIMIT: ISC doctine and the availability of PPD's limited how many could be deployed in a given area at a given time. For purposes of ISC ships in a patrol scenario, the maximum number of PPD's is calculated as follows: The flagship (the largest ship present) with whatever PPD's it has (a maximum of four), plus one PPD for every group of three ships in addition to the command ship (counting a maximum of one fractional group). This yields a maximum of eight PPD's in a standard 11-ship fleet. There is also an overall limit of nine PPD's for any given fleet (assuming a larger fleet is authorized in that scenario). PPD's on bases do not count for the purposes of this limit. Each flotilla of PF's, whether casual or formal, counts as one "ship" for this equation. Fighters do not count at all.

To me this says you must have at least four ships to have five PPD's. The fractional group only comes into play at the end when you have one or two ships left over and you can count them as a partial group. I thought this was a bit tight for our purposes (i.e. if they choose a Dred with no PPD, they can't have any) and designed my rule in this spirit (#2), but less restrictive on placement. Echelons were designed to rip ships apart I know, but that is only because in SFB history the ISC end up getting stomped by the Andromedans. We need something that is fair to the other races that we are playing (that traditionally lost to the ISC in SFB due to the makeup of the universe) and so I limited the number of PPD's by size as well in my formula.

Dfly · « **Reply #7 on:** November 13, 2004, 08:57:07 am »

"The flagship (the largest ship present) with whatever PPD's it has (a maximum of four), plus one PPD for every group of three ships in addition to the command ship (counting a maximum of one fractional group). "
perhaps I am wrong, but in my math, take 3 ships, one being a command ship. remove the command ship, this leaves 2 ships. you are allowed to count a maximum of 1 fractional group, in this case being the 2 remaining ships. therefore you would be allowed one extra ppd.

Corbomite · « **Reply #8 on:** November 13, 2004, 09:15:55 am »

Except that I read it as that we never fullfill the original condition, i.e. needing at least one group of three after the command ship before counting any fractional groups. That is up to interpretation of course. In any case I still think five PPD's for three ships is excessive for our uses.

Also, as I explained, another slight adjustment was made for play balance in our format. Look at the ISC Tourney Cruiser for a better idea of where I'm coming from as a base here.

Mutilator · « **Reply #9 on:** November 13, 2004, 04:03:34 pm »

My read on it is 4 PPD is the maximum for three ships.

I think if we keep it simple we use 4 PPD max for any three ships period.

Mutilator · « **Reply #10 on:** November 15, 2004, 04:27:00 pm »

If there are no other options I recommend we set the vote.

FSD votes for option #3

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #11 on:** November 15, 2004, 05:03:00 pm »

GDA votes 2. Corbo's logic convinced me.

Payne · « **Reply #12 on:** November 15, 2004, 05:12:50 pm »

Not to speak for Ronin, but I believe SoV has no problem with #3.

KBF-Butcher · « **Reply #13 on:** November 15, 2004, 05:36:22 pm »

I said before i dont give a dam with the ppd rule as i think its not make any difference but...

Phaser suggested he would like the PPD rule tweaked further (see option 1) ,and some posted they dont have a problem ,then though phaser was accused for it from Jakle and Corbomite then all u guys agreed with Corbomite's option.

Now u all vote for an option that theoratically is a little better for the isc race (might give acouple of more options) (see option 3) relative with as it first was and phaser option as well.

I ll stop posting i m about to have a brain damage or something

Mutilator · « **Reply #14 on:** November 15, 2004, 05:43:17 pm »

Butcher we are just looking to get the majority rule on it. Please have ISC cast a vote or abstain. The other thread was for the discussion. Please lets keep the development of the league going in this thread. Thanks

[ISC]Phaser · « **Reply #15 on:** November 15, 2004, 06:04:04 pm »

ISC votes for:
option #3 . 4 PPD limit on a 3 ship fleet no restriction on what ship(s) have the PPDs

Dfly · « **Reply #16 on:** November 15, 2004, 06:19:46 pm »

TSC has no problems with option 3, and votes it.

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #17 on:** November 15, 2004, 06:20:36 pm »

Quote from: [ISC]Butcher on November 15, 2004, 05:36:22 pm

I said before i dont give a dam with the ppd rule as i think its not make any difference but...

Phaser suggested he would like the PPD rule tweaked further (see option 1) ,and some posted they dont have a problem ,then though phaser was accused for it from Jakle and Corbomite then all u guys agreed with Corbomite's option.

Now u all vote for an option that theoratically is a little better for the isc race (might give acouple of more options) (see option 3) relative with as it first was and phaser option as well.

I ll stop posting i m about to have a brain damage or something

LOL, thanks for pointing that out. I meant 2. hehehehe, I edited my vote above.

FPF-Bach · « **Reply #18 on:** November 15, 2004, 11:28:35 pm »

The FPF supports Option 2.

Mutilator · « **Reply #19 on:** November 16, 2004, 06:34:34 am »

Vote update:

Option 1 ~ 0

Option 2 ~ 2 GDA FPF

Option 3 ~ 4 FSD SOV TSC ISC

Option 4 ~ 0

If KHH and 9th could sound off we can have this hot issue resolved for cycle one at least

Nomad · « **Reply #20 on:** November 16, 2004, 09:15:47 am »

9th votes Option 3.

Mutilator · « **Reply #21 on:** November 16, 2004, 09:38:12 am »

Thanks Nomad that vote should seal it for option three. With five fleets casting support behind that option it is the majority vote getter. Guess we need Kel to give it royal assent and it will become the rule for cycle one.

GDA-Kel · « **Reply #22 on:** November 16, 2004, 10:20:50 am »

Quote from: Mutilator on November 16, 2004, 09:38:12 am

Thanks Nomad that vote should seal it for option three. With five fleets casting support behind that option it is the majority vote getter. Guess we need Kel to give it royal assent and it will become the rule for cycle one.

Done.

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #23 on:** November 19, 2004, 07:52:17 am »

In order for me to capture this on an updated PBR, I need to know what will be done when an ISC squadron only has 2 ships?

Mutilator · « **Reply #24 on:** November 19, 2004, 09:20:54 am »

Quote from: KHH Jakle on November 19, 2004, 07:52:17 am

In order for me to capture this on an updated PBR, I need to know what will be done when an ISC squadron only has 2 ships?

I do not think it will be an issue for the PBR divisional play if we go with Dfly's idea and every battle will be 3v3 regardless of the number of fleet members that show up. With two members one person will have to fly two ships.

If it is for pick up games and the like I would think a reduction of half would be fair. Two ships two PPD deployed either two PPDs on one ship, or one PPD each.

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #25 on:** November 19, 2004, 10:37:18 am »

I am not concerned with Pick up games at the moment. As long as everyone's clear on the 3 ships no matter what, then that'll work

KHH Jakle · « **Reply #26 on:** December 12, 2004, 12:20:21 pm »

Just checkin to see who voted for what...

Kroma BaSyl · « **Reply #27 on:** February 25, 2005, 02:36:22 pm »

bump

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

[ISC]GreyWolf · « **Reply #28 on:** March 01, 2005, 05:32:58 pm »

Quote from: Kroma on February 25, 2005, 02:36:22 pm

bump

2. PPD deployment is a configuration choice not so much numbers. It should be scaled by the size of the commanding ship, but not restricted to that ship. This would allow for more imaginative fleet formations for the ISC. For example:

If the largest ship in the fleet is of CL(CM) class, then one PPD is allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CA class, then two PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of CC class, then three PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.
If the largest ship in the fleet is of DN(BB) class, then four PPD's are allowed for a fleet of three.

I thought this was settled or was this a new vote for the next PBR? (assumption here is that the PBR will be around for awhile).

News:

Topic: PPD Suggested rules (Read 8138 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: PPD Suggested rules (Read 8138 times)