Topic: Question for debate: TOS Starship Excalibur

[Lieutenant_Q]

so its the Yorktown but that doesn't explain what the where doing with the ship and for who it was and why did the rush to finish it, the can give it to kirk like thewhere  planing it for a long time, at the end of st4 kirk was retrograded to captain and give the command of a starship (the enterprise-A), did the decide to give kirk a new ship after he stolen the Enterprise or during the trial or what?, since the give the commission the Enterprise-A that mean it was decide for a long time, must take a certain time to rename a ship, at least a few days.

Ok...time for my take on this again.

The Yorktown was a ship that was caught by the whale probe in ST:IV.  Cartwright had the Ops officer "Get me the Yorktown."  They were attempting to create a Solar Sail, to keep the crew alive.  Since Roddenberry hinted that the Yorktown is the Enterprise A, I would say they failed.  And that the ship was so screwed up by the Whale probe, that they tried to rebuild most of the systems, and did a rush job so that Kirk would have a ship immediately after his court martial.  Which accounts for Scotty's Monkey comment.  Also, considering that they probably had to fix a considerable amount of equipment and buildings in San Francisco following the probe encounter, we cannot assume that a month or more did not pass before the Court-Martial.

[Don Karnage]

so the Yorktown was damage by the probe, what about the Saratoga, it  was not damage or don't seem to have Ben damage that much by the probe?, why a constitution class would have Ben damage that much and a starbase did not get much or no damage by the probe since after it left the power return to normal?

[Lieutenant_Q]

Well, We never see that Saratoga again.  As for the Starbase, it wasn't caught by the probe for nearly as long as the Yorktown was.

[hobbesmaster]

Well, We never see that Saratoga again.

And if the Saratoga wasn't destroyed then, then, uh, lets just say that the Miranda class's on screen combat record makes piloting a Stinger-II look attractable.

[Sirgod]

Well, We never see that Saratoga again.

And if the Saratoga wasn't destroyed then, then, uh, lets just say that the Miranda class's on screen combat record makes piloting a Stinger-II look attractable.

Slightly Off topic, But where you been Hobbes? I haven't heard from you in forever.

Stephen

[Commander La'ra]

It'd be helpful to know exactly how the Excalibur's crew died.  She wasn't a skeletal wreck: There was too much of her left for that description to apply.  So, what caused the massive fatalities?  Even a catastrophic life support failure wouldn't produce such a result without extensive hull breaches and a complete failure of safety protocols such as the sealing off of areas open to space.

The only think I can come up with is that M-5 cooly and efficiently targetted systems that led to a shutdown of the inertial dampening field (perhaps Excalibur had a record of IDF problems and the supercomputer capitialized).  The ship was moving at high warp, as ships in TOS often did in combat, and if there was even a microsecond of delay between the main system failing and the backups kicking in, the crew is paste.

The ship might be relatively okay in that scenario, but some unfortunate soul is going to have to clean the mess up.  And serving on the thing would not be popular.

[FPF-Wanderer]

According to the Star Trek Enclyclopedia, the Excalibur was "severely damaged and all crew personel killed" during the M-5 wargame.  So, the question becomes, was she scrapped, or repaired?

As a side note, Lt. Q said above of the Excalibur, "it would probably be the first ship to recieve the CC refit, since there was a lot less work to be done on the Lexington than there was on the Excalibur...I think it explains why the 1703 Lexington and 1705 Excalibur are CCs but why 1707 Hood and 1711 Potemkin are only CAs in SFC I."

Actually, the CC designation comes from the historical footnotes of Star Fleet Battles, the game that SFC1 (as well as EAW and OP) is based on.  But it's still a nice way to try and tie in ST "canon" and the "history" of SFB.

[Storvick_XC]

so in startrek 4 when the crew get the brand new enterprise-A, what ship did the take? the seem to kinda have rush into making it or converting it to the tmp technologies since scotty says the ship was build by monkey because everything in the ship needed adjustment,  and how long the crew of the enterprise was on Vulcan and why didn't the federation ask the Vulcan to send kirk and is crew back to heart for the trial?, how long have the Ben working on  the new enterprise if the use and old constitution ship to refit it and be ready for kirk?, the original ship take 18 month to refit so kirk have not stay 18 month on Vulcan so the did plan ahead on refitting the ship and where was it? in st3 the excelsior was at the base but there was not other ship (visible) in the drydock so where is this new constitution class coming from?   ??? ???

The begining of Star Trek IV, Kirk states in his log that the Crew of the Enterprise was on its 3rd year in exlie on Vulcan. So They had to be on Vulcan later then 18 months.

[Don Karnage]

hmm i will go see that, i don't remember that part.  ???

[Firehawk]

so in startrek 4 when the crew get the brand new enterprise-A, what ship did the take? the seem to kinda have rush into making it or converting it to the tmp technologies since scotty says the ship was build by monkey because everything in the ship needed adjustment,  and how long the crew of the enterprise was on Vulcan and why didn't the federation ask the Vulcan to send kirk and is crew back to heart for the trial?, how long have the Ben working on  the new enterprise if the use and old constitution ship to refit it and be ready for kirk?, the original ship take 18 month to refit so kirk have not stay 18 month on Vulcan so the did plan ahead on refitting the ship and where was it? in st3 the excelsior was at the base but there was not other ship (visible) in the drydock so where is this new constitution class coming from?   ??? ???

The begining of Star Trek IV, Kirk states in his log that the Crew of the Enterprise was on its 3rd year in exlie on Vulcan. So They had to be on Vulcan later then 18 months.

I would have to go back and watch the movie again to be positive but I am pretty sure he said 3rd month not year.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

STII:TWOK and STIII TSFS both occurred in 2285 according to the Star Trek Chronology, and STIV:TVH occurred in 2286, so I'd say they were on Vulcan for 3 months.

The Chronology also states that the USS Excalibur along with her crew was destroyed while in combat with the M-5 computer in 2268. However, after reviewing the episode first hand (thanks to DVD), clearly only the crew of the Excalibur were killed and the ship survived. The USS Constellation was also pretty much toast in the Doomsday Machine. Scotty was heard to say it would take him 3 months in space dock to repair the warp drive of the Constellation, and the Constellation was in very bad shape. Its a reasonable assumption to make then that Excalibur could not have been much worse off, otherwise it would not have survived. This tends to suggest that perhaps the Excalibur could have been repaired in a much shorter time, possibly no more than 6 months after the episode.

[14G_Tiger]

Im going to add another question..

Why is the TOS Excalibur 1664, and the SFC Excalibur 1705??

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

The Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph designs listed the Excalibur as NCC-1705. This was first printed in 1976 and was the primary source used by ADB to create Starfleet Battles. The other hull registry was mentioned somewhere in this thread, to have originated from the notes of the production crew but I assume never actually used or shown in the show. I would imagine these notes surfaced at a time after the technical manual was printed.

[Age]

      That would be warp coil as the First StarShip to come with a Warp Core is in TAS USS Bonaventure .The USS Enterprise 1701-A had come with real warp core the old line in or unrefited came with warp coils/ repair the warp drive of the Constellation.

       James Doohan talked about this in a scientific magazine as well.

   The Saratoga was eventually destroyed by the Borg in the battle of Wolf 359 with Ben Sisko in Command.

[Julin Eurthyr]

I'd look at it like this:

Starfleet builds their hulls to last.  The guts of a starship, on the other hand, aren't nowhere near as durable.

Consider:
Constellation: wrecked on the inside (3 month repair), hull scorched up badly, maybe a twisted warp pylon.
Enterprise: TWOK - TSFS: near-wreck, but on the hull all it had were scorch marks.  This from some "unshielded" phaser fire.
All starships: a shot to, say, the secondary hull causes shorts and control panel explosions all over the bridge.

Therefore, The Excalibur, running with low to no shields for the "wargame", when fired upon by M5's full-power phasers did as much, if not more, damage than the Enterprise suffered when she was pegged by Kahn.  Warp drive detonation (no warp core at this time), feedback takes out most, if not all, the control systems, and with it most of the rest of the crew, catastrophic system failure, including life support, costs the lives of the rest of the crew, all that's left is really a hollow shell filled with debris and radiation.

That would require pretty much a full rebuild of the Excalibur, as the only part still worthwhile is the hull.

[14G_Tiger]

The Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph designs listed the Excalibur as NCC-1705. This was first printed in 1976 and was the primary source used by ADB to create Starfleet Battles. The other hull registry was mentioned somewhere in this thread, to have originated from the notes of the production crew but I assume never actually used or shown in the show. I would imagine these notes surfaced at a time after the technical manual was printed.

I read somewhere that the STSTM was an unauthorized piece of work...why would they base a game on it? (not to mention the best one)

[The Postman]

The Star Trek Starfleet Technical Manual by Franz Joseph designs listed the Excalibur as NCC-1705. This was first printed in 1976 and was the primary source used by ADB to create Starfleet Battles. The other hull registry was mentioned somewhere in this thread, to have originated from the notes of the production crew but I assume never actually used or shown in the show. I would imagine these notes surfaced at a time after the technical manual was printed.

I read somewhere that the STSTM was an unauthorized piece of work...why would they base a game on it? (not to mention the best one)

Because, at the time, it was endorsed and supported by GR.  They even referenced ship registries from the TM in TMP.