Topic: The PPD Rule

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

And we were eating plasma the entire match.

If we stayed our distance, we would have been PPD'd to death.

Pick our poison, eh?

As for the shuttle bug.  It is a common cheesy tactic that we have run into.

Fighters are hard enough to control without having them waste their heavy weapons shot on a  shuttle instead of the enemy ship. 

[FPF-DieHard]

As far as our matches I wouldn't consider PPD a deciding factor at all as you can't shoot PPD to the rear and we were being chased for the most part.

That's my point.  ISC plasma ships kick-ass.  Every battle we won with more than one PPD ship we still would have one.  The fights we lost had more than one PPD ship.

[762_XC]

Bug exploits are considered tactics now?

Funny, we used to call that cheating.

Kinda like running the border to avoid fighters?

[762_XC]

I just learned something new! Bug or tactic though?

Tactic. It ain't a bug, just the target priortity.

Do you really think Taldren intended to have fighters unload a full salvo of heavy weapons on a single admin? 

[Kroma BaSyl]

Bug exploits are considered tactics now?

If it were a bug, which it ain't.

Funny, we used to call that cheating.

Kinda like running the border to avoid fighters?

Kinda, but not quite.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Jeez, you're good at yank t00l's chain.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I just learned something new! Bug or tactic though?

Tactic. It ain't a bug, just the target priortity.

Do you really think Taldren intended to have fighters unload a full salvo of heavy weapons on a single admin? 

The AI does all sorts of stupid stuff, so I don't like having to have rules for every occurance. I find it hard to craft a rule that doesn't limit valid uses of admin shuttles and SSs for those of us that need those in our bag for dealing with other unexpected game interactions, like lack of plasma bolts. However, I do agree that it is a cheesy tactic, and won't do it intentionally for the sole purpose of distracting fighter AI (GSA play it is still fair game).

[Kroma BaSyl]

Jeez, you're good at yank t00l's chain.

Me and DH were using that "tactic" against you 2 when we were doing that SG4 testing. We were so hoping to get t00l to blow. <snicker>

[762_XC]

The AI does indeed do all kinds of stupid stuff, but this is beyond stupid.

It should be completely obvious that it IS a bug. We all know that in the second to last patch for OP, Taldren coded fighters to shoot heavy weapons at each other. Obviously the way the code works an admin shuttle is treated as a fighter, even though it is almost completely harmless. This was an unintended side-effect of the fighter-vs-fighter patch. Stop being deliberately obtuse, you fighter-hater.

To you this may seem like a minor "feature" (since you don't want to call it a bug, which it clearly is) but it actuality it is an easy cheat to get fighters off your ass when you really need it. Needless to say some races are more badly affected by this than others; one race in particular which depends on fighters.

P.S. I'm glad that YOU feel that it is cheesy enough that YOU will not do it, but I know of at least one PBR fleet who will actually buy more admins just for purposes of exploiting this bug.

[Mutilator]

Geebus then what about when an enemy castles and launches every admin shuttle it has to take up damage from an ESG hit. I would perfer my ESG take a bite of the mothership then be wasted on four admin shuttles or are you ready for this... mines...Oh my I got to stop or I am going to make myself weepy 


Muhahaha 

[Kroma BaSyl]

The AI does indeed do all kinds of stupid stuff, but this is beyond stupid.

It should be completely obvious that it IS a bug. We all know that in the second to last patch for OP, Taldren coded fighters to shoot heavy weapons at each other. Obviously the way the code works an admin shuttle is treated as a fighter, even though it is almost completely harmless. This was an unintended side-effect of the fighter-vs-fighter patch. Stop being deliberately obtuse, you fighter-hater.

To you this may seem like a minor "feature" (since you don't want to call it a bug, which it clearly is) but it actuality it is an easy cheat to get fighters off your ass when you really need it. Needless to say some races are more badly affected by this than others; one race in particular which depends on fighters.

P.S. I'm glad that YOU feel that it is cheesy enough that YOU will not do it, but I know of at least one PBR fleet who will actually buy more admins just for purposes of exploiting this bug.

Sorry 762, but when the AI was to stupid to allow plasma PFs to fire their F torps at fighters I don't recall you calling for a rule against launching fighters in response to PFs.  I just don't think a rule should be created to address this AI behavior. Where do you draw the line? Can I dump a single throw away INT to distract them? Can I launch a shuttle swarm? Can I launch a SS at a fighter group or chasing carrier? No, I don't like restricting shuttle launches.

You could however develop and prepare counter tactics.  Just a thought.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Geebus then what about when an enemy castles and launches every admin shuttle it has to take up damage from an ESG hit. I would perfer my ESG take a bite of the mothership then be wasted on four admin shuttles or are you ready for this... mines...Oh my I got to stop or I am going to make myself weepy 


Muhahaha 

LOL, I always do that. That one was standard SFB too. I like to tractor the admin shuttle out front if necessary. <snicker>

[762_XC]

The AI does indeed do all kinds of stupid stuff, but this is beyond stupid.

It should be completely obvious that it IS a bug. We all know that in the second to last patch for OP, Taldren coded fighters to shoot heavy weapons at each other. Obviously the way the code works an admin shuttle is treated as a fighter, even though it is almost completely harmless. This was an unintended side-effect of the fighter-vs-fighter patch. Stop being deliberately obtuse, you fighter-hater.

To you this may seem like a minor "feature" (since you don't want to call it a bug, which it clearly is) but it actuality it is an easy cheat to get fighters off your ass when you really need it. Needless to say some races are more badly affected by this than others; one race in particular which depends on fighters.

P.S. I'm glad that YOU feel that it is cheesy enough that YOU will not do it, but I know of at least one PBR fleet who will actually buy more admins just for purposes of exploiting this bug.

Sorry 762, but when the AI was to stupid to allow plasma PFs to fire their F torps at fighters I don't recall you calling for a rule against launching fighters in response to PFs.  I just don't think a rule should be created to address this AI behavior. Where do you draw the line? Can I dump a single throw away INT to distract them? Can I launch a shuttle swarm? Can I launch a SS at a fighter group or chasing carrier? No, I don't like restricting shuttle launches.

You could however develop and prepare counter tactics.  Just a thought.

That makes no sense. PF's launching F-torps at fighters seems pretty smart to me. It's certainly not wasted firepower like it is with an admin.

Pssst...Kroma...you WANT to key on the fighters. Trust me on this.

Counter tactics...hmmm....fly only Tartars I guess. 

[Kroma BaSyl]

That makes no sense. PF's launching F-torps at fighters seems pretty smart to me. It's certainly not wasted firepower like it is with an admin.

Pssst...Kroma...you WANT to key on the fighters. Trust me on this.

Counter tactics...hmmm....fly only Tartars I guess. 

No silly, when they wouldn't fire their torps at them and would hang around getting raped by the fighters while the carrier went ignored. It was bad AI behavoir with the previous patch and you didn't have a problem with it, since it favored you. That would have been to hard to litigate as is this.

Make sure you fly in F11 and be ready with the phasers to target shuttle when your fighters are inbound. Tactics. It does require you to hit more than the launch fighter key though.

[762_XC]

That makes no sense. PF's launching F-torps at fighters seems pretty smart to me. It's certainly not wasted firepower like it is with an admin.

Pssst...Kroma...you WANT to key on the fighters. Trust me on this.

Counter tactics...hmmm....fly only Tartars I guess. 

No silly, when they wouldn't fire their torps at them and would hang around getting raped by the fighters while the carrier went ignored. It was bad AI behavoir with the previous patch and you didn't have a problem with it, since it favored you. That would have been to hard to litigate as is this.

Make sure you fly in F11 and be ready with the phasers to target shuttle when your fighters are inbound. Tactics. It does require you to hit more than the launch fighter key though.

So that's what you came up with for "tactics"?

Now I know you're just arguing for argument's sake. Admit you're wrong already, fighter hater.

[Kroma BaSyl]

So that's what you came up with for "tactics"?

Yeah sorry, I know how tough it is to  actually fly your own ship, I should have thought of something within your reach.

Now I know you're just arguing for argument's sake. Admit you're wrong already, fighter hater.

No I am a PPD hater, and that is what this thread is really about, hating the PPD. Now back on topic.

[762_XC]

Your mother was a hamster, and your father smelt of elderberries.

[deadmansix]

I just learned something new! Bug or tactic though?

Tactic. It ain't a bug, just the target priortity.

thats just it ADMIN shuttles should not be a target priorty it should be the target you set.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I just learned something new! Bug or tactic though?

Tactic. It ain't a bug, just the target priortity.

thats just it ADMIN shuttles should not be a target priorty it should be the target you set.

I agree, but that is no different than the fact that the fighters/PFs target other fighters/PF as a priority over their set target as well. Thus I don't think a rule ought to be created for this particular target priority un-intended consequence anymore than any other.

[Mutilator]

thats just it ADMIN shuttles should not be a target priority it should be the target you set.

Perhaps fighter pilots are actually smarter then they are given credit for. I recall reading in my manual somewhere that it said nothing good can ever come out of a shuttle launched by an enemy kill it. Perhaps the pilots read this too. If a drone using race dropped one peoples natural instinct is to scream out a warning of scatter pack and try to kill it; and nothing is sweeter then over running with ESG's at range zero and dropping two fat SS on a hull, then again if I get them out at range zero not much hope for fighters shooting them down muhahahah