Topic: GW4 Mod Explanation

[FPF-DieHard]

Mod Explanation:

OOB:

All Specialty ships are controlled via OOB.  Kroma came up with the idea of 2 types of points for controlling the OOB.   BPs, Build Points, are used for the purchasing of DN and BCH hulls.   CP, Conversion Points, are used for converting ships into specialty ships.   This is sort of to emulate how in SFB ans F&E, Shipyards were used to construct ships but Start bases had the ability to convert and refit ships.

CPs are also used to upgrade DN and BCH ships. 
Now you may ask, what is a specialty ship? Carriers, Tenders, Droners, Escorts, Scouts, Maulers, Fast Cruisers, etc are specialty ships.   Each specialty ship costs one CP to convert.

Command cruisers and Line Cruisers as generally available for all to fly.

Flags:

To avoid confusion, all capital and specialty ships have been ?flagged? in the ships list.   Capital ships have a ?c? in the beginning of the name (EXAMPLE: F-cDNH, K-cC7) and specialty ships are flagged with an ?s? (EXAMPLE: F-sCVD, K-sFDW).   Ships that are generally available (K-D7W, R-NHK, F-CLC) have no flags so feel free to buy as many as you like.

Klink Tweaks:
-   2 B-Racks added to Klingon Strike Carriers
-   4 B-Racks added to K-C8V/C8VK.  2 Disrupters removed
-   K-C10K:  +1 AMD12
-   K-D7L: FYA moved to 2273 based on SFB precedent
-   K-C5K: FYA moved to 2273 based on SFB precedent

Tholians:

Tholians are converted by Brezgone.  I cut an pasted.  Maybe we can nag him to give a write up because I honestly don?t know too much about them.

Fighters and PFs:    All races have fighters and PFs.  The new PFs for the Federation and Klingons are based on SFB material.   Yes the Federation PFs are conjectural, but they are still legal.

For developing fighters for the Romulans and Tholians, we used the stats from SFB 100%.  The Speeds were doubled and internals left as is to represent WBPs (Warp Booster Packs) and double-internals.  The GW dev team was now faced with an option, do we use SFB fighters for the Romulans/Tholians and use the Taldren fighters for the Klingon/Federation or do we use SFB fighters for all?

We chose to use SFB fighters for all. 

The fighters are as close to SFB stats as the game engine allows.  When ?creative license? was needed, we went for the ?spirit? of SFB.  In SFB, fighters were deadly as hell up-close, fast, and could not take as much damage as most of the Taldren fighters.  I think the translations worked out well and I don?t believe anything is OTT with the CnC we?ve set up.

The Romulan Carriers are straight out of SFB converted to the 2/3 fighter rule. 

The Klingon PF tenders are straight conversions from SFB.   The Federation PF tenders are SFB legal conversions of the F111 carriers from the Federation 3rd way.  By ?SFB legal? we used the conversion of the BCS and SCS for conjectural PFs.  Cargo is converted to repair, F111s swapped for PFs.

Casual PF Tenders.  

In SFB, ANY ship could be refitted to carry 2 PFs into battle.   These PFs were literally strapped-on hitching a ride into battle.   The casual PF Tenders could NOT repair the PFs as they had no real hanger/repair facilities.  This is represented by the rule that ships with 2 PFs cannot recall them after they have been launched in battle (Thanks Scipio for the inspiration  ).

Any ship could have 2 PFs in SFB, but we had no intention on including casual tender variant of every single ship.   That?s simply nuts and too much work.  Instead we made variants of the following ships:

-   BCH
-   CCH
-   NCC
-   CF
-   NCF
-   CWL 

The Casual PF tenders are considered specialty ships and cost 1 CP to convert.

Fighter/ PF CnC

Straight SFB.  See the website for details http://mkroll.asta.chicago.il.us/

I?ll post more later, going to get the test server running now . . .

[Dizzy]

Tholians:

Tholians are converted by Brezgone.  I cut an pasted.  Maybe we can nag him to give a write up because I honestly don?t know too much about them.

Brez, your copy of OP is sitting right here on my desk. I have to go to the post office tomorrow and I'll ship it to you then 2nd day so you get it in time for the server start. Sorry I sat on it so long... been... busy.

[KBF-Frankk]

Mod Explanation:

OOB:

All Specialty ships are controlled via OOB.  Kroma came up with the idea of 2 types of points for controlling the OOB.   BPs, Build Points, are used for the purchasing of DN and BCH hulls.   CP, Conversion Points, are used for converting ships into specialty ships.   This is sort of to emulate how in SFB ans F&E, Shipyards were used to construct ships but Start bases had the ability to convert and refit ships.

K-D5d is line ship 

[Kroma BaSyl]

K-D5d is line ship 

NOT!

Kroma

PS, You owe me $20 Jinn, I told you Sears wouldn't be the first.

[RazalYllib]

Unfortunately I must concur w/ Kroma.  All SFB "D" type varients (D= Drone Bombardment) were the result of a conversion applied during or post construction.  It is a non-standard design.

[Dizzy]

Unfortunately I must concur w/ Kroma.  All SFB "D" type varients (D= Drone Bombardment) were the result of a conversion applied during or post construction.  It is a non-standard design.

+karma to ya 4 havin the ballz to say that to a drone luvin klink chuckin club...

[FPF-DrAzteca]

K-D5d is line ship 

NOT!

Kroma

PS, You owe me $20 Jinn, I told you Sears wouldn't be the first.

 

[Doomstone]

Unfortunately I must concur w/ Kroma.  All SFB "D" type varients (D= Drone Bombardment) were the result of a conversion applied during or post construction.  It is a non-standard design.

My understanding is that's true, with the exception of the K-D5D which is a line ship. Maybe Krueg or one of the other Klinks with archived SFB materials can dig up the appropriate section for you.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

i would hate to say this but the D5D IS a CL, not a line cruiser. It is on a CL class hull. I will look this up but i do think that Kroma is correct.

[Corbomite]

Note that my source for this is old, but:


(R3.50) D5D DRONE CRUISER: Designed for direct combat with drones, not for independent long-range bombardment. Changes: replace disruptors with type-A drone racks; can control drones equal to double the sensor rating; can launch one drone per rack each turn.


Of course our D5D has B racks where the dizzys were so this may not still be the case if SFB has changed it too.

[KBFLordKrueg]

Unfortunately I must concur w/ Kroma.  All SFB "D" type variants (D= Drone Bombardment) were the result of a conversion applied during or post construction.  It is a non-standard design.

My understanding is that's true, with the exception of the K-D5D which is a line ship. Maybe Krueg or one of the other Klinks with archived SFB materials can dig up the appropriate section for you.

From the Book:
"The following ships are variants of the D5 wartime construction cruiser, Unless, none are added to the (U3.2) Order of Battle. All are available for conversions or new construction. The 18 D5s in the initial OB include 3xD5C, 3xD5D, 1xD5F, 1xD5G, 1xD5H and 9 D5s. The construction rate of 6 per 6 month turn includes 1xD5C, 3 D5, 1 D5H and one of any type (except C which is list or B-J K refits, which are under separate limits.)

(R3.50) D5D Drone Cruiser: Designed for direct combat with drones, not for independent longe-range bombardment.

(R3.56) D5K Improved cruiser: The standard K refit (R3.72) was applied to the standard D5.
The following variants rarely received the K refit: AD5, D6A, D5D, D5E, D5F, D5N.

In the long run it's going to be considered a "specialty ship" for Conversion Point purposes for GW4.
And it's really not worth arguing about over 1 lousy ship.

[RazalYllib]

Which book is that from...the newer F&E manuel Krueg.  I have the earlier edition and none of the additional content and am beginning to think it might be worth the $$$ to get back up to date.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I would further add that in GW4 with the CP system there will be plenty of CPs available to the Klngons. 6 approximately every 2 days or so. Thus any pilot that wishes to fly a D5D should have no trouble getting one assigned (same goes for Feds and CADs, NCDs,etc), they just have to be a little more careful with them, unless they want to have to wait a day or so for another. This is the purpose of the CP rules, to make "SFC" specialty ships (Hex flippers, etc) more than just kamakazi fodder. You need to be a little more careful with them, but they will still be widely available to pilots that like to fly them, unlike the more restrictive DN/BCHs. You guys should have seen Jinn's original evil plan, he was going to make you pay for them out of the current BP system.

Keep in mind too that if all the CP ships that are built during a cycle are not immediately assigned and a pilot with one loses his, he can be assigned another out of that inventory.

For the record, my comment to Frank wasn't to dispute the SFB classification, but the GW4 classification. This also holds true for the F-DWD and F-CAD (which was an oddball anyways).

[Kroma BaSyl]

Which book is that from...the newer F&E manuel Krueg.  I have the earlier edition and none of the additional content and am beginning to think it might be worth the $$$ to get back up to date.

BTW, you can buy just the books from ADB directly for like $15 as opposed to rebuying the whole F&E package for $40 or so.

[FPF-DieHard]

The D5D is NOT a bombardment ship, it is a driect combat ship.   That is true, this is indicated by it's lack of special sensors.   

It is however a limited production SPECIALTY ship as indicated in the F&E production limits.  The Klingons in F&E could produce 4 DRONE ships per year maximum.  They could build a total of 16 K-D5 hulls in that time period.

[Kroma BaSyl]

It is however a limited production SPECIALTY ship as indicated in the F&E production limits.  The Klingons in F&E could produce 4 DRONE ships per year maximum.  They could build a total of 16 K-D5 hulls in that time period.

Yes DH hits on the central issue, which is "what does specialty mean?" Answer, what ever the hell we say it means. LOL

[KBF-Crim]

That's ok..we only need two anyways .....one for sears...and one for me...

[Kroma BaSyl]

That's ok..we only need two anyways .....one for sears...and one for me...

In your dreams, your getting the C5. <snicker>

[FPF-DieHard]

That's ok..we only need two anyways .....one for sears...and one for me...

In your dreams, your getting the C5. <snicker>

C5K is a good ship and out by 2273 in "our" universe. 

[FPF-Paladin]

i would hate to say this but the D5D IS a CL, not a line cruiser. It is on a CL class hull. I will look this up but i do think that Kroma is correct.

Hehe, guess maybe you haven't encountered LK or WS in one of these 'light cruisers', at least not while making any, ANY sort of mistake at all   Probably 75% of my overall lifetime losses in d2 campaigns have been to these guys....

*thinks hard about the making mistakes part... goes off to re memorize the D5D stats*

... bloody h*ll, I so want rematches with no AI involved.






(j/king mainly, a hats off to some of the Klinks I fear too.  I know it's a CL.  Come on, who doesn't miss some mild smack talk before a campaign anyway?)