Topic: Patrol Battle Rule Links

[Kroma BaSyl]

oh, right - forgot

Feel free to start on a Matrix whenever you have the time!  Just let me know which ones you are working on so we don't overlap - although to be honest I probably won't start for another 2 weeks. 

I can send you the page for the 4.0 rules if you think that will help to get started.  Just let me know

Just send or point me too it and I will grab it.

[KHH Jakle]

http://home.comcast.net/~jakle/Final_PBR_Rules.htm

that's v 4.2, the final one.

[KHH Jakle]

For the Matrix work, couple things need to get done across the board:

Battle Tugs (Tugs that are old Heavy Cruiser variants, not the Light ones built off of War Cruisers) need to be marked as taking both the command and combat support slots

Fast Cruisers need to be put back into Combat Support

Asthetically:

I though about seperating Carriers into Large and Small, to clearly seperate the ones that require 2 escorts versus the ones that require one.

I think that's it though....

Oh, and there was a request to add the BPV next to each ship on the Matrix....but I think that's making the Matrix do TOO MUCH work for you (screw you Duck)

[Kroma BaSyl]

Battle Tugs (Tugs that are old Heavy Cruiser variants, not the Light ones built off of War Cruisers) need to be marked as taking both the command and combat support slots

Why not just command?

[KHH Jakle]

It's consistent with how similar things are handled - The True PFT DN's are both Command and Combat Support.  This is a tug, which makes it inherently Combat Support, but the majority of players here also consider Battle Tugs to be substitute DN's....so they should also be Command

[KHH Jakle]

In line with this, and the fact that OP+ 4.0 has made Dreadnought Maulers available for all coalition forces, the PBR Matrices will be adjusted to flag all DN's with Maulers as filling both the Command and Combat support functions for that squadron.

At this point, I am not aware of any other new DN variants that also have Combat Support functions aside from those that are True PFT's or carry Maulers.

If anybody know of any, post it here.

[TraumaTech]

Black Jak.......how come you have the L-DND and L-DNDF as command frigates.i have looked at there designation in sfc/op and don't see any "L" in there name. at least for the frigates. as i understand it,this would make them unrestricted frigates.please explain  if i miss-understand

[KHH Jakle]

Dude, call me Jakle. 

Anyway - The presence or absense of an 'L' doesn't necessarily make a ship a command variant.  The Fed DDL for example is not a Fed Command Destroyer.

In this case, the L-DND/F is a unique Lyran ship that was produced from the center hull of a Lyran DN.  Now, since I don't currently have my 'R' rules handy, I can't recall what was the specific rational for making this a command variant.  The ship description may have explicitly stated that it is used as a Squadron commander, or perhaps it's unique-ness, or a combination of factors.

[TraumaTech]

i would appreciate if you would look into it,as it is an awsome little ship.beyond having 6 phaser 1's and a decent power curve,i see no reason looking at the ship why it should be classed as a command varient. 


  quote   "In this case, the L-DND/F is a unique Lyran ship that was produced from the center hull of a Lyran DN"  unquote

 in other words,it was made from scrap metal from a dread.this doesn't justify making it a command varient.also looking at your list of lyran command varient,every other lyran frigate and lite cruiser has the "L" designation as a leader

[KHH Jakle]

I'll go back and look when I can get at my books...

Might be a few days.

[KHH Jakle]

it is an awsome little ship....having 6 phaser 1's and a decent power curve

On second thought - that right there is an excuse to make it Command Variant.  The whole purpose of PBR is to limit the use of of awesome ships.

I won't be happy till everybody has to fly unrefitted D6's in battle!!

[TraumaTech]

jakle   i asked a legitimate question.....why is that ship classed as a command varient?? based on every other cv in the lyran frigate and lite cruiser class   there is an "L" to designate  it as a command varient.now we get a decent ship that doesn't have the designation"L"  and you turn it into a cv.all i need to know is the reason for this( a good reason ),please refer to your book 

   

[KHH Jakle]

go re-read my post TT.

Go find the

Think about it....

jesus

[TraumaTech]

well i don't find it humorous.....i asked a simple question      why?  why do you feel the need to personalize this ,by asking me to chill out or words to that effect...oh,and please don't swear    i don't believe it's very polite

[KHH Jakle]

Have it your way.

"The Mountain Lion is easily the most powerful destroyer in the entire game system.  However, it remained unique because center DN sections were too expensive and difficult to build in greater quantities, and every Mountain Lion deployed would cost the Lyrans a dreadnought"

For all intents and purposes, unique ships end up getting restricted in PBR, because their use is restricted in the source material.

[TraumaTech]

Have it your way.

"The Mountain Lion is easily the most powerful destroyer in the entire game system.  However, it remained unique because center DN sections were too expensive and difficult to build in greater quantities, and every Mountain Lion deployed would cost the Lyrans a dreadnought"

For all intents and purposes, unique ships end up getting restricted in PBR, because their use is restricted in the source material.

   thank you....i do appreciate .However,i would also appreciate the source material you used to come up with this answer ,so that i may avoid future confrontations of similar circumstances.personally to say this ship is simply the most powerful destroyer is debatable.questions i wonder about are: what type of internals does it take with this dn section? are they comparable to other races internals of the non cv type? why would a dn section be used to build a frigate(to me it was scrap metal being used)?<----does this allow it to take more damage in a match? how does it  rate power curve wise versus other races non command varient type frigates.
                  what i read in your reply sounds like it is your personal opinion.However,if it specifically says that this frigate is a command varient,i would like to see this,and read for myself,why it says it is.Ultimately it would be very edumacational for me and should help improve my understanding of both sfb and pbr.....ty in advance

[KHH Jakle]

Trauma - being around me and PBR as long as you have, you should know that much of what PBR is IS MY interpretation of SFB's S8 rules, or rather, my interpretation of how those rules translate to SFC.

You could very well call that interpretation an opinion - but keep in mind that that opinion runs throughout the whole of PBR, and not applied arbitrarily to cherry pick specific ships.  I am totally unfamiliar with the DND in terms of how it operates.  I am familiar with it's ship description, which fits the bill for how I dertmine if one off ships (unique or special conversions) get treated.

This isn't debateable.  Let's just say that if you somehow get a surge of the PBR players saying that this ship should be be removed from the Command Variant list and on the off chance I cave, then I then have to go back through every other races Command Variant list and remove any other ship that was placed there with the same rationale as the DND.....just imagine what nasty critters that would unleash for unlimited use against you.

Tell you what I will do though, just because I am a glutton for punishment:  my work just installed these nifty new Scanner/Printer/Fax machines.  I will scan the SFB S8 rules and I will upload them to my PBR website, and provide a link here to them.  I will also scan the ship description for the DND, and email it to you.

[KHH Jakle]

I just remembered - Mut actually was kind enough to post a link to the source material available on SFB's website.  Go to the 2nd post in this thread and you'll find it.

I emailed you the DND ship description.

[KHH Jakle]

Patrol Battle Matrices have been updated to OP+ v 4.0 specs (I hope - I am sure I missed siomnething

[762_XC]

L-STL is missing off the Command list, though the STLF is there.

F-LBT is still missing from Combat Support.