Topic: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey  (Read 4881 times)

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Offline EE

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F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« on: November 04, 2004, 04:15:52 pm »
LITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. -- A National Guard F-16 fighter jet on a nighttime training mission Wednesday fired 25 rounds of ammunition that tore through an intermediate school. No one was injured.

The military is investigating the incident that damaged Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School shortly after 11 p.m.

Police were called to the area when a custodian heard what sounded like someone running across the roof of the school. The custodian was the only person in the school at the time.

Police Chief Mark Siino on Thursday said police officers noticed punctures in the roof. Ceiling tiles had fallen into classrooms and there were scratch marks in the asphalt outside the building.

The 2-inch long bullets are made of lead and do not explode, said Col. Brian Webster, commander of the 177th Fighter Wing of the New Jersey Air National Guard.

It was unclear why the shots were fired, Webster said.

Pilot Fired From 7,000 Feet At School

New Jersey public schools were closed Thursday because of a teachers convention. The Ocean County school is scheduled to reopen Monday.

The pilot of the single-seat jet was supposed to fire at a target on the ground three and half miles away from school on the Warren Grove firing range, Webster said.

The military firing range covers parts of Little Egg Harbor, Bass River and Woodland townships in the southern part of the state.

"We don't know what happened that caused the gun to fire," Webster said.

The plane was 7,000 feet in the air when the shots were fired. The gun, an M61-A1 Vulcan cannon, is located in the plane's left wing.

"The National Guard takes this situation very seriously," said Lt. Col. Roberta Niedt, a spokeswoman for the state Department of Military and Veterans Affairs. "The safety of our people and the surrounding communities are our foremost concern."

The jet that fired the rounds was assigned to the 113th Wing located at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland. The fighter jet returned there after firing the shots, Webster said.

Webster would not identify the pilot or detail possible disciplinary measures.

Mike Dupuis, president of the township's Board of Education, said there were no precautions the school district could have taken to prevent such an incident.

School workers are mindful that the range is nearby, he said.

"Being so close to the range, that's always in the back of our minds. It is very scary. I have children in that school and relatives that work there," he said.

The school houses students from grades three to six.

The range has been used by the military since the end of World War II, long before the once-rural area was developed.
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #1 on: November 04, 2004, 04:21:26 pm »
Who is the DUMBARSE that put the school on the edge of the range?

And the pilot needs a new one ripped and his wings clipped for not checking to make sure that he was over his target!


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Offline Dash Jones

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #2 on: November 04, 2004, 06:17:52 pm »
Hey, at 11PM accidents are more prone to occur.  At least I would think they'd be more prone to occur seeing it's getting late etc.

Addendum:  On the otherhand, you're right...I wouldn't want to fess up if I were the pilot that shot those bullets either.  It seems very irresponsible.  Perhaps he could do something like they did in Afghanistan?  Afterall...perhaps someone was firing at him from the ground?
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Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #3 on: November 04, 2004, 07:17:00 pm »
If his gun malfunctioned..it's the BB stackers fault...

If his IFR/VFR said he was where he was...NavAids gets the boot to head, unless they prove thier alignment electronics were bad, then it's the calibration folks...

If he tried to do it visually (unlikely at 2300 hours)..it's his fault...

Knowing how these things go..there will be a full investigation...the optics will be checked..the alignment test equipment will be sent to another base for calibration, with a full report requested..and all the other things that go into it..

Mike
Summum ius summa iniuria.

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it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
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Offline Clark Kent

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 08:48:05 pm »
I bet there are some kids who have no school because of this that are very very happy.
CK

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Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #5 on: November 05, 2004, 11:47:39 am »
Media is blowing this into a full BS hype as usual. Local radio described it as a "strafing run" on the school, just saw a report on a Philly TV station calling it a "military attack". As if the pilot spotted the school from 7,000 feet and rolled in on it guns blazing!

Local reaction is varied (just about 15 miles SSW of here, can hear A-10s open up if the winds right). Long time locals seem blase about it, figure they've been dealing with the noise and occasional mishap for decades. The newbie locals (most likely transplants from NY and north NJ) are up in arms, "damn the military for putting a practice range there!". The whole site sits on the eastern edge of the National Pinelands Preseve, had plenty of buffer until developers started gazing south. Just to clarify that 3 mile distance is from the school to nearest boundary of the range. Add a few miles to the reported figure. The area is a nice place to live but folks have to keep in mind what is already there before trying to cram residential building into the area.

Hell, all the schools in the county are under the flight paths of Navy aircaraft going to/from Lakehurst NAS, AF cargo lifters and tankers going to/from MacGuire AFB, and commercial stuff going to/from and orbiting Newark, JFK, LaGuardia, Philly, and Atlantic City. Relax people, we play the odds every day!
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Offline J. Carney

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #6 on: November 05, 2004, 03:27:54 pm »
Basicly, it comes down to stupidity on whoever put the school on the flight path to a known test range and a little bad luck on the malfunction on the gun.*

*I'm going to give the pilot benifit of the doubt after considering all of what could have gone on. HOwever it is his fault... :ban:
Everything I did in my life that was worthwhile I caught hell for. - Earl Warron

The advantages of living in the Heart of Dixie- low cost of living, peace and quiet and a conservative majority. For some reason I think that the first two items have a lot to do with the presence of the last one.

"Flag of Alabama I salute thee. To thee I pledge my allegiance, my service, and my life."
   

Offline Holocat

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #7 on: November 06, 2004, 08:24:08 pm »
Media is blowing this into a full BS hype as usual. Local radio described it as a "strafing run" on the school, just saw a report on a Philly TV station calling it a "military attack". As if the pilot spotted the school from 7,000 feet and rolled in on it guns blazing!

Being facetious, but if that happend when I was a kid, that would have been sooooooooooo cool.

Bet there's kids picking at the bullet holes in hopes of finding a bullet.

Offline Villa64

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #8 on: November 06, 2004, 10:48:00 pm »
I think the incident report will be interesting on this.  People might be very surprised how much ammo is being hauled around over their heads without their knowledge.  A few years ago at Ft Hood, an artillery unit, fired a few off the range, off the post, and into a farmers field.  My guess on this one is not that the guy rolled in hot on a school, but more likely had a malfunctioning hot trigger or something as he got ready to go onto the range.  Those cannon rounds go pretty far, and from 7000 feet could land about anywhere.
My 2 cents.

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Offline Elvis

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #9 on: November 07, 2004, 05:58:25 am »
So where did the other 50-70 rounds land? How are F16s set up? I mean if you depress the trigger on the Vulcan does it fire a 100 round burst, ie 1 second or is it capable of continuous fire? I read somewhere that in the first second of operation the Vulcan loses about 3 tenths of a second spinning up, therefor only 70 rounds are fired during that duration(1 second).

Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #10 on: November 07, 2004, 06:31:04 am »


  http://www.wpafb.af.mil/museum/arm/arm8.htm

A little bit on the Vulcan

Mike
Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

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"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
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My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
 --Les Paul

Offline The Postman

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #11 on: November 28, 2004, 06:38:22 am »

NewsFlash Home | More National News

Strafing of school divides N.J. region
11/27/2004, 10:45 p.m. ET
By WAYNE PARRY
The Associated Press   

LITTLE EGG HARBOR, N.J. (AP) ? The strafing of a school by a National Guard F-16 fighter jet has divided residents of the fast-growing region around the Warren Grove Gunnery Range. Some fear for their safety, while others consider it profoundly unpatriotic to question the military during a time of war.
 
The National Guard is still investigating what it describes as an accidental release of gunfire. Results are expected in about two weeks.

The night custodian of the Little Egg Harbor Intermediate School was going about her rounds when she heard the patter of what sounded like footsteps on the roof. She thought someone might be running atop the building, but police found nothing. The next morning, authorities realized what had made the sound: 20mm rounds fired by the F-16 during a nighttime training flight over a target range four miles away.

"Had it missed the school and hit one of our houses, we'd be talking about dead bodies now," said Township Committeeman Arthur Midgley. "We can't have this. This must never happen again."

But Terry Hickman, a 10-year Army special forces veteran, defended the range and the pilots who train there.

"Let 'em alone; they're over there putting their lives on the line for us," Hickman said as he prepared to hunt deer in Bass River, near the edge of the range. "That guy (the pilot) probably feels so bad about this. He's probably going to get sent overseas and he might not even come back. As long as no one got hurt, this whole thing should just be forgotten."

According to the military, at 9:02 p.m. on Nov. 3, a veteran pilot from the 113th Wing of the District of Columbia National Guard, based at Andrews Air Force Base in Maryland, was streaking across the sky 7,000 feet above the 9,416-acre range, which abuts parts of Little Egg Harbor, Stafford, Tuckerton and Bass River.

The pilot, a major whose name has not been released and who has been grounded pending the outcome of the inquiry, looked back over his shoulder for a split second, just as the wing-mounted gun fired a burst of 27 rounds. The 20mm cannon fires at a rate of about 6,000 rounds per minute.

The lead rounds followed an arcing trajectory that brought them to the ground four miles away. Eight bullets punched through the roof of the school and at least one lodged in a child's desk.

The pilot immediately radioed the tower that something had gone wrong and headed back to Andrews.

The range is shut down until the investigation is completed.

The pilot's commander, Maj. Gen. David F. Wherley Jr. Wherley, told reporters in Washington there were three possible explanations: plane malfunction, computer error or pilot error.

When the range was opened in 1942 during World War II, there were 2,000 people living nearby; now there are more than 50,000.

Lisamarie Saccomagno's daughter attends the school.

"Because we're at war now, I'm very sensitive to all the military's burdens," she said. "We all want to be safe and secure. But we're also concerned about our children. I'm afraid something's going to go wrong. We really need to know where those bullets are going."

National Guard officials pointedly invoked the Sept. 11, 2001, terror attacks in trying to reassure residents and head off calls for the range to be permanently shut down.

"Think back in your memory to Sept. 11, when all the air traffic was grounded and the only sound you heard was our F-16s flying over New Jersey," Maria Falca-Dodson, the state National Guard's deputy adjutant general, said at a packed public meeting. "Much of the country all felt great comfort in the sounds and sights of those aircraft. What if on Sept. 11, we were all a volunteer group that only flew occasionally or twice a year?"

The Guard already has made several changes in pilot training, including requiring them to keep a safety on their weapons until they are over the range near their targets, and altering approach routes so any accidental gunfire is likely to land in sparsely populated woods west of the Garden State Parkway.

Many of the range's closest neighbors don't fear its operations. In May, Bill Neil and his family moved into a spacious new home just past the range's western boundary in Stafford. He said he's not concerned for his family's safety.

"It's kind of cool for the kids," he said. "They like hearing the planes."


http://www.masslive.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-34/1101607444163660.xml&storylist=national



Link: ht

Offline Capt. Mike

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #12 on: November 28, 2004, 06:50:12 am »
Good find...and as said before, you build a house near a firing range at your own risk..

Mike
Summum ius summa iniuria.

The more law, the less justice.

Cicero, De Officiis, I, 33

"It doesn't, and you can't, I won't, and it don't
it hasn't, it isn't, it even ain't, and it shouldn't
it couldn't"
FZ, 1974

My chops were not as fast...[but] I just leaned more on what was in my mind than what was in my chops.  I learned a long time ago that one note can go a long way if it's the right one, and it will probably whip the guy with twenty notes.
 --Les Paul

Offline KBF-Angel Slayer

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #13 on: November 28, 2004, 08:09:15 am »
   People just think the military can up and move anywhere they want and make a military base relocate.  They ever think how many jobs are on that base for the locals?
   Whether the pilot failed to follow standard procedures (Instrument Flight Rules for location, then Visual Flight Rules for landmarks/Verification of location) will be decided by the military investigators.  Of course, the left doubts that the military does thorough investigations.  Guess what?  The investigations done by the military would scare the hell out of a liberal because you have no rights to ban ANY evidence they come up with. 
   They will throw the kitchen sink at you and follow it up with the fridge just to be safe.
   I will wait for the official report, but one incident in fifty odd years?  Good odds.
   It could have been as simple as his nose was pitched higher than expected, and he brushed the trigger, and the added elevation sent the bullets farther than expected.  28 from a Vulcan is barely anything.  That gun can rattle off some rounds.


NPR is a lot like NASCAR.  Two hundred miles an hour in a circle, and you end up right back where you started with nothing but lost time for the effort.


Offline Clark Kent

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #14 on: November 28, 2004, 06:33:49 pm »
People lile to blame.  People really like to blame.  The thing is that this is an easy thing to place blame on.  friggin sheeple
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #15 on: November 28, 2004, 10:43:55 pm »
 :lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup: Sheeple. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Good one Clark+1 for you! :)

Offline Clark Kent

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #16 on: November 29, 2004, 09:48:13 am »
:lol: :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: :thumbsup: Sheeple. :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Good one Clark+1 for you! :)

Muchos thanks  ;D
 :multi: :multi: :multi: :multi:
CK

But tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or fix this hole in a mother's son?
Can you heal the broken worlds within?
Can you strip away so we may start again?
Tell me, can you heal what father's done?
Or cut this rope and let us run?
Just when all seems fine, and I'm pain free, you jab another pin,
Jab another pin in me
-Metallica

Offline Grand Master of Shadows NCC37385

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #17 on: November 30, 2004, 08:48:03 am »
Ive been waiting for someone to say this. The pilot was just returning fire. It is Jersey after all.  :P




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Offline NJAntman

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #18 on: December 01, 2004, 08:07:18 pm »
"Think back in your memory to Sept. 11, when all the air traffic was grounded and the only sound you heard was our F-16s flying over New Jersey," Maria Falca-Dodson, the state National Guard's deputy adjutant general, said at a packed public meeting. "Much of the country all felt great comfort in the sounds and sights of those aircraft. What if on Sept. 11, we were all a volunteer group that only flew occasionally or twice a year?"
http://www.masslive.com/newsflash/national/index.ssf?/base/national-34/1101607444163660.xml&storylist=national


DAMN STRAIGHT! :thumbsup:

The NIMBY attitude is bad enough in a state as densely packed as this. But when it involves pre-established institutions and one as important as keeping our military from becoming a paper tiger I want too just go down there and smack some heads around. Said it before and I'll rephrase it, the folks pushing for the closure are new arrivals from metro NY/NJ (9/11 ironic) who want their little slice of 1/8 acre McMansion heaven, regardless of reality, sensability, or malice toward others.
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Offline NJAntman

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Re: F-16 Fighter Fires At School In New Jersey
« Reply #19 on: December 01, 2004, 08:19:48 pm »
Ive been waiting for someone to say this. The pilot was just returning fire. It is Jersey after all.  :P

Thems fightin words.
 
We got several Army bases, an Arsenal, a major Air Force base, a Naval Air Warfare Center (complete with big ass-ed blimp hangers), a Naval Weapons depot (un-confirmed nukes included), and the Iowa class battleship NJ.

If DC wants to get tough they'd better rent an army before they come knocking again. ;)
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