Topic: Yo Karnak!  (Read 9437 times)

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Yo Karnak!
« on: November 02, 2004, 07:46:05 pm »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2004, 05:05:42 pm »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

Yup.

Quote
2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

I think it's the shiplist.  ;D

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2004, 05:38:39 pm »


2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

I think it's the shiplist.  ;D
Quote

I think you may be right but I can't do anything about that  ;)
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline FPF-Bach

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2004, 05:48:37 pm »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

3.  Why did you sallys bail out on the GZ league mid cycle?
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el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #4 on: November 04, 2004, 10:40:16 am »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

3.  Why did you sallys bail out on the GZ league mid cycle?

The ISC got nerfed too much in the PBR.

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #5 on: November 04, 2004, 11:17:19 am »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

3.  Why did you sallys bail out on the GZ league mid cycle?

The ISC got nerfed too much in the PBR.

lol....ISC in our diviision doesn't seem to be having to much trouble.
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el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #6 on: November 04, 2004, 11:44:36 am »
2 thingies . . .

1.   Which misison is courier duty?  Kar_cPatrol.scr ?

2.   Getting some wierd issues not being able to draw AI allies form other races.   Could this be do to the Donors thrown at the top of the shiplist?   I did not have this issue on GW3, but the donor numbers were much smaller.   Is this an issue with Shiplist API thingmasomthing?

3.  Why did you sallys bail out on the GZ league mid cycle?

The ISC got nerfed too much in the PBR.

lol....ISC in our diviision doesn't seem to be having to much trouble.

PPD rules sucked. If they started telling Feds how many photons they could put on a ship, or telling Mirak how many drones racks they can put on what ship then maybe you would understand.  Bottom-line, we won't play under the current PBR rules.  Go pick on some other race.

Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #7 on: November 04, 2004, 12:01:39 pm »
PPD rules sucked. If they started telling Feds how many photons they could put on a ship, or telling Mirak how many drones racks they can put on what ship then maybe you would understand.  Bottom-line, we won't play under the current PBR rules.  Go pick on some other race.

Karnak:

Doesn't it feel like you're flying Gorn during your early / mid era battles, unless you're the pilot of the PPD ship?

The PPD does need a limit, perhaps though it shouldn't be as strict as it is now.  Perhaps 1 ship with as many PPDs as it wants, 1 ship with only 1 PPD, and the third be a Plasma boat, no more than 5 PPDs if it's a DN / CA fleet...

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Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #8 on: November 04, 2004, 12:31:14 pm »
PPD rules sucked. If they started telling Feds how many photons they could put on a ship, or telling Mirak how many drones racks they can put on what ship then maybe you would understand.  Bottom-line, we won't play under the current PBR rules.  Go pick on some other race.

Karnak:

Doesn't it feel like you're flying Gorn during your early / mid era battles, unless you're the pilot of the PPD ship?

The PPD does need a limit, perhaps though it shouldn't be as strict as it is now.  Perhaps 1 ship with as many PPDs as it wants, 1 ship with only 1 PPD, and the third be a Plasma boat, no more than 5 PPDs if it's a DN / CA fleet...

Actually, that was about what the PPD limit was previously, and I believe what it is going to be again next cycle. I agree that it was a tad over restricted, however that has had little to no effect on other ISC fleets success on the battle field.

Also, Karnak your analogy is quiet on target, as they aren't restricting what weapons you can put on a ship but rather what ships you can fly. They are basically treating PPD armed ships as SFB does under the PBR, which is as combat support, but in an even less restrictive fashion as your fleet can have an additional non-PPD support vessel.
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el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #9 on: November 04, 2004, 12:58:52 pm »
Quote
Actually, that was about what the PPD limit was previously, and I believe what it is going to be again next cycle. I agree that it was a tad over restricted, however that has had little to no effect on other ISC fleets success on the battle field.

Even Jakle agreed that it was over-done.  We are perfectly happy with the SFB limit of 4 PPDs per 3v3 fleet action as was basically implemented in the previous GZ League cycles. We were under the impression that these were the PPD rules for this GZ League cycle.  Then it was changed to make it "easier" for everyone to "understand". It bascially became a principle issue. You are correct it does not affect muchly the battle-field performance of ISC ships, BUT some ISC players have A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y had it with the constant harassment rules of nerfing on the ISC.  Until people learn to stop messing with the ISC on a consistent basis then some ISC players aint gonna play.

Go pick on the Gorns or Klinks or Feds for a change. Go say they got magic photons or something and tell them to restrict them. Stick with SFB "4xPPDs on any ship combo. we want" rule and STFU; or, just don't ask ISCers to play.

BTW, notice how ISC got dropped for any pending dynas.  Even when the community managed to get a dyna going they "convienently" forget the ISC.

 No ISC for over 13 months now in good dyna like SS2.


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« Last Edit: November 04, 2004, 01:40:41 pm by el-Karnak »

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #10 on: November 04, 2004, 01:42:54 pm »
Quote
Actually, that was about what the PPD limit was previously, and I believe what it is going to be again next cycle. I agree that it was a tad over restricted, however that has had little to no effect on other ISC fleets success on the battle field.
Even Jakle agreed that is was over-done.  We are perfectly happy with the SFB limit of 4 PPDs per 3v3 fleet action as was basically implemented in the previous GZ League cycles. We were under the impression that these were the PPD rules for this GZ League cycle.  Then it was changed to make it "easier" for everyone to "understand". It bascially became a principle issue. You are correct it does not affect muchly the battle-field performance of ISC ships, BUT some ISC players have A-B-S-O-L-U-T-E-L-Y had it with the constant harassment rules of nerfing on the ISC.  Until people learn to stop messing with the ISC on a consistent basis then some ISC players aint gonna play.

Go pick on the Gorns or Klinks or Feds for a change. Go say they got magic photons or something and tell them to restrict them. Stick with SFB "4xPPDs on any ship combo. we want" rule and STFU; or, just don't ask ISCers to play.

BTW, notice how ISC got dropped for any pending dynas.  Even when the community managed to get an dyna going they "convienently" forget the ISC.

 No ISC for over 13 months now in good dyna like SS2.

LOL....Karnak are you off you meds again?

Principle my arse, if you guys had been winning I am guessing it wouldn't have been that big a deal. The rule was in place before the first match, but you dropped mid cycle, so I don't buy the we are standing purely on principle clap-trap.

Since you seem to agree that there should be a 4 PPD limit per fleet you admit that the PPD is a special case among weapons, so all the "magic photon" crap is just a red herring, designed to paint the ISC as martyrs. The truth is that the PPD armed ships were limited in SFB as a special weapon on special ships (very similar to maulers and such being treated as support ships), which is what the PBR is attempting to mimic. You even admit that the change in the rule was done in order to simplify the rule, thus not to simply further the persecution of the ISC. Hell he could have taken the simpler tract and just made all PPD armed ships support ships, you know like the best of many other races ship choice options (G-BF, K-D5D, F-CAD, K-MDC), but instead he choose to make the ISCs PBR choice less restrictive. However, because you see a specific rule naming the ISC, you immediately jump to the conclusion that it is being done to single them out for punishment, which is the exact opposite of the truth. You are allowing your ISC inferiority complex to cloud your judgment here.

Now admittedly, that was a bit of an over simplification, PPD armed ships were a special case in SFB that doesn't quiet fit in with fully classifying them as support role ships, yet they did have fleet restrictions on them. This is what Jakel has tried to do with the PBR is a simple elegant way that wasn't as ham fisted as just lumping them with the rest of the Support vessels.

Oh and Karnak, the ISC isn't the only race with special rules in the PBR. For instance the Gorn have to count their DNP and BCS as both Command and Support in any fleet combo. Give that at their respective BPVs they just aren't worth taking with the extra restrictions, we simply fly other ships. Now maybe if we had to play every match against those damned ISC guys every week (how always seem to have our number) we would have gotten frustrated and quit mid cycle claiming principle too.

As to the lack of serious dynas with ISC, that is another red herring, there hasn't been a serious dyna with Gorn either in ages. Neither is do to a conspiracy to keep the plasma chuckers down though. Rather it is because the only serious campaigns in the last year have been the GW series which by design have been following the historical unfolding of the war. So you might be better served blaming that conspiracy on Steven Cole, as he wrote the History of the General War, and not the sole dyna admin that has been producing his server series for his own enjoyment.

Personally I would love to see a 3 part ISC Invasion series follow it.

XOXOXO
Kroma

PS, BTW thanks Karnak, been a while since we had a good flam....errrrr.....debate around here.
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el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #11 on: November 04, 2004, 01:54:23 pm »
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LOL....Karnak are you off you meds again?

Since Bush won, we can look forward spiralling prescription drug costs in the US thanks to them buying Bush off. So, too bad, so sad. :rofl:

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Principle my arse, if you guys had been winning I am guessing it wouldn't have been that big a deal. The rule was in place before the first match, but you dropped mid cycle, so I don't buy the we are standing purely on principle clap-trap.
We knew from the beginning that we would not be competitive.  So, that's a non-issue. 

Quote
Since you seem to agree that there should be a 4 PPD limit per fleet you admit that the PPD is a special case among weapons, so all the "magic photon" crap is just a red herring, designed to paint the ISC as martyrs. The truth is that the PPD armed ships were limited in SFB as a special weapon on special ships (very similar to maulers and such being treated as support ships), which is what the PBR is attempting to mimic. You even admit that the change in the rule was done in order to simplify the rule, thus not to simply further the persecution of the ISC. Hell he could have taken the simpler tract and just made all PPD armed ships support ships, you know like the best of many other races ship choice options (G-BF, K-D5D, F-CAD, K-MDC), but instead he choose to make the ISCs PBR choice less restrictive. However, because you see a specific rule naming the ISC, you immediately jump to the conclusion that it is being done to single them out for punishment, which is the exact opposite of the truth. You are allowing your ISC inferiority complex to cloud your judgment here.

Now admittedly, that was a bit of an over simplification, PPD armed ships were a special case in SFB that doesn't quiet fit in with fully classifying them as support role ships, yet they did have fleet restrictions on them. This is what Jakel has tried to do with the PBR is a simple elegant way that wasn't as ham fisted as just lumping them with the rest of the Support vessels.

We just want to put 4 PPDs where ever want to on our ships like SFB says. Anything else is pure #*(#*.

Quote
Oh and Karnak, the ISC isn't the only race with special rules in the PBR. For instance the Gorn have to count their DNP and BCS as both Command and Support in any fleet combo. Give that at their respective BPVs they just aren't worth taking with the extra restrictions, we simply fly other ships. Now maybe if we had to play every match against those damned ISC guys every week (how always seem to have our number) we would have gotten frustrated and quit mid cycle claiming principle too.
Same goes for ISC ships. Plus, our DNs suck.

Quote
As to the lack of serious dynas with ISC, that is another red herring, there hasn't been a serious dyna with Gorn either in ages. Neither is do to a conspiracy to keep the plasma chuckers down though. Rather it is because the only serious campaigns in the last year have been the GW series which by design have been following the historical unfolding of the war. So you might be better served blaming that conspiracy on Steven Cole, as he wrote the History of the General War, and not the sole dyna admin that has been producing his server series for his own enjoyment.

Whole GW war at-once dyna is a muy, muy better idea.

Quote
Personally I would love to see a 3 part ISC Invasion series follow it.
yeah, I'm sure it will happen real "KCW-defined" soon.  :rofl:


 

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #12 on: November 04, 2004, 02:14:12 pm »

Same goes for ISC ships. Plus, our DNs suck.


That is not true, according to the ISC Matrix (which I just reviewed) you have no ships that count as both the Command and Support variants in a given legal PBR combo. This special rule is only there to persecute the Gorn, Romulans and Lyrans.

The ISC is hardly the only race with crappy DNs.  Of course you at least got the best "super" BCH.

Quote

Whole GW war at-once dyna is a muy, muy better idea.


Being a free market economist I would have to disagree. If it were a better idea that would be what people would build and play.

Quote
Quote
Personally I would love to see a 3 part ISC Invasion series follow it.
yeah, I'm sure it will happen real "KCW-defined" soon.  :rofl:


Then you better get cracking. You can't blame others for keeping the ISC down if no one in the ISC can be bothered to build their favorite kind of server. Folks need to take charge of their own destiny.
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Offline FPF-Bach

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #13 on: November 04, 2004, 02:15:55 pm »

We knew from the beginning that we would not be competitive.  So, that's a non-issue. 

That's the entire point and the the main issue you KNEW before you decided to join the league that PPD would be limited you even went as far as to admit the you knew you would not be competetive because of it.  That being the case why join in the first place?  

Your excuse doesn't fly with me as you are dropping mid cycle VS just not playing to begin with.

I am currently Fed up with all the GZ stuff that is going in right now, but my fleet will honor it's commitment to the conclusion of cycle 3 regardless as long as the cycle actually continues on.
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Offline drb

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #14 on: November 04, 2004, 02:18:01 pm »
Hoi Folks,

I think Karnak has created the latest entry for the Dynaverse lexus. "KCW-defined" I think ranks up there with "Required Dogmatix Smiley" or "STFU," or "p00p," or....

 P00p, I have run on so. I had better STFU, throw in a:  ;D and get back to work on Kroma's poem so that it is completed "KCW-defined" soon.

Take care... to learn some of the language the locals use.

drb

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #15 on: November 04, 2004, 02:18:57 pm »

We knew from the beginning that we would not be competitive.  So, that's a non-issue.

That's the entire point and the the main issue you KNEW before you decided to join the league that PPD would be limited you even went as far as to admit the you knew you would not be competetive because of it.  That being the case why join in the first place? 

Your excuse doesn't fly with me as you are dropping mid cycle VS just not playing to begin with.

I am currently Fed up with all the GZ stuff that is going in right now, but my fleet will honor it's commitment to the conclusion of cycle 3 regardless as long as the cycle actually continues on.

Actually to be fair, I believe Karnak meant that they realized they wouldn't be competitive with all the PPDs you could shake a stick at.
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GCS Prima Ballerina
GCS PHAT Gorn
GCS Queen Kroma


Because this game makes me feel like  a thirteen year old girl trapped in a lizards body.

el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #16 on: November 04, 2004, 03:26:01 pm »

We knew from the beginning that we would not be competitive.  So, that's a non-issue.

That's the entire point and the the main issue you KNEW before you decided to join the league that PPD would be limited you even went as far as to admit the you knew you would not be competetive because of it.  That being the case why join in the first place? 

Your excuse doesn't fly with me as you are dropping mid cycle VS just not playing to begin with.

I am currently Fed up with all the GZ stuff that is going in right now, but my fleet will honor it's commitment to the conclusion of cycle 3 regardless as long as the cycle actually continues on.

Actually to be fair, I believe Karnak meant that they realized they wouldn't be competitive with all the PPDs you could shake a stick at.

We saw the PPD rules posted for the last GZ Cycle and thought they were for the current GZ Cycle. Those PPD rules are fine. So, we joined. Then we find out belatedly about the new ones.  If we knew about the new ones in the first place then we would not have participated in the GZ League.  BTW, that GZLeague site is really confusing.

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #17 on: November 04, 2004, 03:29:48 pm »
BTW, that GZLeague site is really confusing.

You think? <snicker>
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Offline Julin Eurthyr

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #18 on: November 04, 2004, 03:34:29 pm »

We knew from the beginning that we would not be competitive.  So, that's a non-issue.

That's the entire point and the the main issue you KNEW before you decided to join the league that PPD would be limited you even went as far as to admit the you knew you would not be competetive because of it.  That being the case why join in the first place? 

Your excuse doesn't fly with me as you are dropping mid cycle VS just not playing to begin with.

I am currently Fed up with all the GZ stuff that is going in right now, but my fleet will honor it's commitment to the conclusion of cycle 3 regardless as long as the cycle actually continues on.

Actually to be fair, I believe Karnak meant that they realized they wouldn't be competitive with all the PPDs you could shake a stick at.

We saw the PPD rules posted for the last GZ Cycle and thought they were for the current GZ Cycle. Those PPD rules are fine. So, we joined. Then we find out belatedly about the new ones.  If we knew about the new ones in the first place then we would not have participated in the GZ League.  BTW, that GZLeague site is really confusing.

One reason that I'm not flying GZ is because I knew going in there would be a very steep, read 1 ship, PPD limit.  I complained endlessly and got told that it's a "playtest in progress".  Perhaps there will be a minor change to the PPD rule for cycle 4, at which point I'll assess the situation and decide from there.

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el-Karnak

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Re: Yo Karnak!
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2004, 03:35:34 pm »
That is not true, according to the ISC Matrix (which I just reviewed) you have no ships that count as both the Command and Support variants in a given legal PBR combo. This special rule is only there to persecute the Gorn, Romulans and Lyrans.

The ISC is hardly the only race with crappy DNs.  Of course you at least got the best "super" BCH.
Yeah, so.

Quote

Quote
Whole GW war at-once dyna is a muy, muy better idea.


Being a free market economist I would have to disagree. If it were a better idea that would be what people would build and play.

Eveyone likes J'inn's Whacky server idea.

Quote
Quote
Quote
Personally I would love to see a 3 part ISC Invasion series follow it.
yeah, I'm sure it will happen real "KCW-defined" soon.  :rofl:


Then you better get cracking. You can't blame others for keeping the ISC down if no one in the ISC can be bothered to build their favorite kind of server. Folks need to take charge of their own destiny.
I did once put up a server to test out EEK 2.0 about a year ago. It even had rules, a good map, XC forums support, XC "Odin" server support. Basically, the best dyna package out there at the time. Only problem was that only one person logged on.

Then it took about 6 months for some hard-headed people to understand that many people in this community are low enough to do boycotts.