Topic: Heroic-Class, USS Christopher Reeve

[Wicked Zombie]

I should point out that LB only built/textured the Scorpion, he didn't design it. The design itself was by Raven Night, who is on good terms with Atolm. They even collaborated once or twice on a few design projects in the past. If Raven or LB felt their work was plagiarized, they are easily capable of defending themselves without any overzealous outside help.

It is incredibly possible to make a scratch built design and have it resemble a preexisting one. I've done it once or twice and later saw another ship with striking similarities. With so many people tampering around with ship designs all the time, I'd be surprised if something didn't resemble another ship in some way.

Atolm doesn't keep tabs on all the designs that are tossed around and believe it or not, there are people who haven't heard of the Scorpion. So the ship has a vague similarity to the Scorpion, yet both have totally different part arrangements and details? I study ship design almost religiously (ironic since I'm not the religious type) and the Heroic never struck me as resembling anything else, especially the Scorpion. If one wants to pick a fight about rip-offs, at least make it about two ships that are more obviously similar and not ships that take a lot of explaining and mapping out to define the duplication. Of course, I'm betting this isn't about rip-offs so much as it is about just wanting a reason to complain.

I never saw any reason in attacking anyone for doing something that has absolutely nothing at all to do with me. Of course, not everyone has learned to mind their own business...

[Reverend]

For the learning disabled, including Reaper himself.... I posted my own viewing of the log-in nature of "Reaper", using our fine forum tools.
It says the owner is Red_Green, or that which he logs himself in as.
It is apparent that one is able to change HOW you appear, but not HOW you log on.

Who here can tell me if this is true or not?

NOOOOWWW, this wouldn't be the same Red_Green, who builds Hydrans, threatens to 'leave the forums' because 'no one give him any thanks'? The Red_Green I know is a great mesher, modeller, and texturer, and wouldn't treat anyone the same way he claims to be treated. The same Red_Green I know is supposed to be representing 9th Fleet, or 11th, and would deface said organizations by such behavior.
Is this a typo, does the forums have another 'red_green'? It was in lowercases.
There is none else more pitiful and diseased than a traitor. Abandonment isn't the same, at least one made a DISTINCTION.
Red_Green, say it isn't so, I believe in you.... but I have been Atolm's #1 fan for 3.1 years, and can't tolerate anyone defaming such a gentle and intelligent creature, not even that spineless cesspool Harry... Berman's pet...you know what Im talking about too, big shot. Your seat wont always be so high, and we'll be waiting here when it isn't.

Good call WZ, good to see another of my heroes here.

Operators are standing by for apologies due, fool(s).

[Starforce2]

Also, last I checked, the scorpion was owned by nightsoft, and nightsoft allows a  wide range of uses for their stuff,  an open door policy,  shall we  say.  This basicly  means that it is OK to"rip off" the design,  alter  it slightly,  use it  as inspiration, whatever. I think it needs to be atleast 65% different from the original to be exempt from being automaticly owned by nightsoft and needing a disclaimer...or something like that. So,  hypotheticly speaking,   even if atolm had based this on the scorpion...there wouldn't be anything wrong with it. And there is certainly 65% difference betweent he scorpion and the Reeves so he's not stealing. Your arguement is a mute point, so please...STFU.

[Red_Green]

I can see easily how Azel evolved this design based on certain design features found in his earlier works. His designs usually feature curved warp pylons and elliptical sectioned hulls for example. In contrast, Ravens work favors straight (front view) warp pylons and angular sectioned hulls. In other words, they are about as similar as a Spitfire is to a JU-87 Stuka. In my opinion this is a much sleeker, more refined design than the scorpion. The front and side views are completely different, and only the top view bears a general resemblence to the scorpion. Besides, any statement that says Azel ripped off a design flies in the face of three years of original work that he's posted in the various SFC forums.

Well I was surprised that no one saw a similarity to the Scorpian until I brought it up. Oh And as someone mistakemly pointed out. I have no affiliation rith 9th fleet or 11th fleet or any fleets for that matter. I find it odd how offended everyone is by my post as I people have never failed to point out when anything I did resembled a past work.  I suggest you all got some thicker skin.

[Red_Green]

My friend, i would be careful what you sling around because what you may be tossing at atolm might come back to bite you in the arse...

OK, from my last thread i pointed out 4 very important differences between the designs, i will continue by pointing out some more....

1) the naccel struts on the reeve flow directly from what could be precieved as the saucer section on the ship.  this means that all hull lines that are present on the saucer, flow directly to the struts.  this is visible in both the top and side views of the reeve.  the scorpion on the other hand has struts which do not flow to the saucer but instead protrude from it as a seperate part.  

2)  the reeve has a neck to connect the saucer to the secondary hull, the scorpion doesn't even have a secondary hull besides the "akira" buldge on the bottom of the saucer (btw if i go by your logic, then the scorpion shares far to many similarities w/ the akira, so it should be credited to show that)

3)  The part that could be called the sacuer on both the Reeve and the Scorpion are vastly different.  the Reeve has what could be called and egg shaped saucer if the struts weren't attached.  It also has a very visible and traditional bridge section.  on the other hand, the scorpion has a saucer design is vastly different, considering that it is snub nosed and contains more straight sides than the Reeve.  Not to mention the fact that the scorpion's saucer section would be nearly twice the size of the reeve if they were scaled the same.

If you wish for me to go on will.  I have shown several examples of the differences between the the Reeve and the Scorpion, demonstrating their vastly different designs.  Presently all you have told us is that you "stand by your opinion" which is "This looks exactly like LordBiles Scorpian with texture alterations. Another design rip off" and have given us nothing of which to base your opionion off of.  All i can assume based off of that is that your vision is in a state of decay and you can no longer distinguish differences betwen these two designs, you are totaly ignorant of the features that both designs have and are just posting random nonsense attempting to cause a problem in this community, or you actually do see similarities so strong that they compel you to post that remark.  But that is as far as i can go because i can not nor will i learn to read minds. I would suggest that you start backing up your opionions, because so far based on your two posts it would appear that you are currently attempting create a conflict with atolm/azel and attempting to tarnish his reputation. So far all you have currently done is piss me off as well as a few other people on this forum.  I would suggest you refrain from posting until you have somthing intelligent to say backing your opinion, otherwise i would do what i would do, go to another thread and ignore the design all together.

Very Respectfully,

Robert

Ok well want I mean is it looks as if this ship was based off of the Scorpian or is a refit of it. As such I think the original designer deserved a mention.

[Red_Green]

Well I was surprised that no one saw a similarity to the Scorpian until I brought it up. Oh And as someone mistakemly pointed out. I have no affiliation rith 9th fleet or 11th fleet or any fleets for that matter. I find it odd how offended everyone is by my post as I people have never failed to point out when anything I did resembled a past work.  I suggest you all got some thicker skin.

Yes it is odd that people are offended when some worm accuses someone that has contributed 3+years of original work to the community of ripping off an obviously inferior design. I just dont get it. I also dont get why suddenly I would get a negative karma point for clearly stating what differences there are between the two. It must be one of those thin skinned adolescent worms that get jerked off too much.

Oh wait - I just realized that worms don't have eyes - thats why they cant see the difference between the two designs.

I recall you wonce teeling me to get thicker skin. So now the shoe is on the other foot. Yes I did think the design was being ripped off- thats what I said and since then I have been diagnosed as having a learning disability, called a worm and told I need glasses. If you could look unbiased at the 2 designs without your emotional attaachment to Azel. The 2 are very close and no the Scorpian is not inferior. In fact it li=ooks more Fed than Azels due to his unique texturing he added in.

1 little negative karma boo hoo LS My opinion of you has lowered now that I see you can't take it.

[J. Carney]

Ok well want I mean is it looks as if this ship was based off of the Scorpian or is a refit of it. As such I think the original designer deserved a mention.

Would you mind explaining to me where you draw your conclusions from?  I can only guess as to how you have based them, and since i have not mind reading abilities i can't confirm anything....

Don't think that mind reading abilities will do you any good in this situation, man...

[OlBuzzard]

I don't suppose we could let this go and let this model get done in peace now .. ??

 particularly due to the nature of its dedicatory endorsement...

thanks

[-LB-]

I hope no one minds if I step in here......

I do Not believe this ship design to be a rip-off at all, in fact I would prefer to think of it as an evolutionary step in the ongoing design process of Fed ships. I could very well see this as being the next step or 2 after the scorpion design, because when Raven and I did this project, it was to be the next step in the evolution of Feds after the Prometheus style ships (without seperation). I commend the designer of this ship, VERY NICE INDEED. But a rip-off? I think not!!

I love this layout, reminds a little of the Scorpion, but then again, the Galaxy reminds me of the Connie. So whats the big deal?

By the way, Who have I offended? My karma is big time in the negs......

[J. Carney]

By the way, Who have I offended? My karma is big time in the negs......

One more towards working your way back to the + side, LB.

[Red_Green]

I hope no one minds if I step in here......

I do Not believe this ship design to be a rip-off at all, in fact I would prefer to think of it as an evolutionary step in the ongoing design process of Fed ships. I could very well see this as being the next step or 2 after the scorpion design, because when Raven and I did this project, it was to be the next step in the evolution of Feds after the Prometheus style ships (without seperation). I commend the designer of this ship, VERY NICE INDEED. But a rip-off? I think not!!

I love this layout, reminds a little of the Scorpion, but then again, the Galaxy reminds me of the Connie. So whats the big deal?

By the way, Who have I offended? My karma is big time in the negs......


OK LB you get the final word but I am not apologixes to anyone here fro my comments especially after being called names. Perhaps I owe some people for diagnoses all my disorders.

[Red_Green]

I screwed that quote up above by mistake. You know LS I contributed stuff here for 3 years as well. Ships, textures, scenery, planet mods and after I have 1 brain cramp I get -20 karma and only plus 8. Goes to show how negative this forum is.

[Starforce2]

Well, for the record, I have a learning disability myself.  ADHD and Tourettes syndrome too. I gave you a negative karma for using your handicap (or however you wish to refer to it) as an excuse...now THAT is lame.


will someone PLEASE hurry up and post a wip  or something before this thread goes completley down the crapper...

[Red_Green]

Well, for the record, I have a learning disability myself.  ADHD and Tourettes syndrome too. I gave you a negative karma for using your handicap (or however you wish to refer to it) as an excuse...now THAT is lame.


will someone PLEASE hurry up and post a wip  or something before this thread goes completley down the crapper...

I didn't make an excuse I didnt apologize and I don't have a learning disability. I was referencey that Reverend said I did but he is not qualified to diagnose. I gave you a neg ative Karma SF for saying you gave me one.

[Red_Green]

Oh and I have done ships that weree based off previous ones like Lances' Bradbury but I mentioned it. People have pointed out any thing I did that resembled anyone eles and no one flamed there opinin. Why does Azel have a hands off policy in this forum?

[Red_Green]

Screw evryone here- I made A comment about Azels ship and am asked to apologize after being flamed by 3-4 people. I am left with no space to apologize and now SF2 says the learning disablity I don't have is no excuse. I never apologized nor do I intent to. I released over 50 ships to this forum and I need an excuse and an apology now? F off all of ya. When I made designs based off of Hobbes Diligent I got flamed and no one flamed the people that commented on it. 

[GotAFarmYet?]

Some moderator lock this thread it nolonger serves the purpose or the sprit that it was started with.

[OlBuzzard]

Ya know guys ..  I'm just a crusty ol' fart with some really old fashion idea  (hence the name Ol Buzzard fits like a glove)...  but ya know...  If we agree (most everyone that is) ..  that this is a good idea and we want this thing done ..  I say we petition the management here to simply clean up the thread ..  get rid of ALL of the negative statements ..  (mine too) .. and get this done RIGHT!

Good night alive !!!  With all of this technology at our disposal ...  surely we can clean this mess up and do the job RIGHT ...  just like it was supposed to be !!

What-do-ya-say guys ....  You with this old man on this one?

lets turn this puppy around ..  COME ON GUYS !!  I KNOW WE CAN DO IT !!

[Azel]

I await MarkyD's model .

 aand I agree Oldman

[Starforce2]

Ya know guys ..  I'm just a crusty ol' fart with some really old fashion idea  (hence the name Ol Buzzard fits like a glove)...  but ya know...  If we agree (most everyone that is) ..  that this is a good idea and we want this thing done ..  I say we petition the management here to simply clean up the thread ..  get rid of ALL of the negative statements ..  (mine too) .. and get this done RIGHT!

Good night alive !!!  With all of this technology at our disposal ...  surely we can clean this mess up and do the job RIGHT ...  just like it was supposed to be !!

What-do-ya-say guys ....  You with this old man on this one?

lets turn this puppy around ..  COME ON GUYS !!  I KNOW WE CAN DO IT !!

sounds like a plan. Are we allowed to delete our own posts? perhaps we don't need the admins...