Topic: What is the basis of a fair challenge?

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Majority vote carries

[FPF-DieHard]

BPV DOES NOT include the value of supplies and is a BS figure.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

BPV DOES NOT include the value of supplies and is a BS figure.

That depends upon who makes the shiplist.    The BPV figures can be alterred to reflect a full load of supplies.

I like the fact that a ship wandering far from  the line of supply might be low on expendables, and thus at a disadvantage when challenged to honorable combat.  This would sort of enforce a LOS rule without requiring that one be written down and remembered.

If you get caught behind lines and challenged, you have to fight.  If you are low on supplys, then you are low on luck. 

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

BPV DOES NOT include the value of supplies and is a BS figure.

That depends upon who makes the shiplist.    The BPV figures can be alterred to reflect a full load of supplies.

-S'Cipio

Very good point, perhaps some BPVc could be tweak for drone and fighter "factors" . . .

I'd still go with Hull classs just know how Klink ships are, it is a lot easier.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

When you say Hull Class, do you mean FF, CL, CA, DN?

Or Frigate, Destroyer, War Destroyer, Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, New Heavy Cruiser, etc. ?

Very good point, perhaps some BPVc could be tweak for drone and fighter "factors" . . .

I'd still go with Hull classs just know how Klink ships are, it is a lot easier.

No arguement it will be easier.  But since I'm not the one doing the work, the workload doesn't bother me. 

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

Or Frigate, Destroyer, War Destroyer, Light Cruiser, Heavy Cruiser, New Heavy Cruiser

Or simply go by move cost.   The rules for this server are too complicated already to have to check a BPV chart to see if I can make a challenge or not. 

Klingons are supposed to be warriors, not accountants (no Doggy, that is not a dig at you  )

[Lepton]

Majority vote carries

You vs me with one of the cerebral hemispheres tied behind my back.

[_SSCF_Hooch]

bump

[Corbomite]

The only real basis for a real challenge would be to have both parties in the same ship, the choice of which would be up to the challenged and the hex they fight in would be up to the challenger (after ship selection) to have their choice of terrain.

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Majority vote carries

You vs me with one of the cerebral hemispheres tied behind my back.

This means what? Are mocking me or poking a little fun?

Hooch

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

What Corbo says is by far the simplest. Ships must be exactly the same. This would be for purposes of enforcing the death rule though, any player can accept a challenge that doesnt meet the rules if he/she wishes.

Although using hull class only is also simple, it does allow for a much wider disparity in ship matchups as well, combined with a death rule then does not seem fair. Not taking loadout into account also does not seem fair. In order to have a mandatory death rule, we do want challenges to be fair though, otherwise to force someone to fight and die in an unfair fight is... unfair.

[madelf]

What Corbo says is by far the simplest. Ships must be exactly the same. This would be for purposes of enforcing the death rule though, any player can accept a challenge that doesnt meet the rules if he/she wishes.

Although using hull class only is also simple, it does allow for a much wider disparity in ship matchups as well, combined with a death rule then does not seem fair. Not taking loadout into account also does not seem fair. In order to have a mandatory death rule, we do want challenges to be fair though, otherwise to force someone to fight and die in an unfair fight is... unfair.

I agree, unfortunatley, that the only true 'fair' match is even ships.  IF we're doing an OOB (which I HOPE we're not) then you'll have just a few challenge matches avaliable to you.  IF it's not an OOB, then you'll be able to change up and down to get a match with an opponent you want.

[Hexx]

Not wanting to upset people, but I proposed that all droners be restricted on this server.
Sent Hooch a PM but he hasn't gotten back to me.
 (Rumour has it he's all bitter about his age, and that he's spent his life in the worthless cause of the Feds, but enough of that for now)
Anyway reasons to get rid of droners

-It's supposed to be a PVP server,not a hex flipper
-Ships flown will be fairly easy to figure out
D5L,D5W,D7L,D7W,FDW,FD7K,C7
and maybe a few carrier varinats.
and probably a few I've missed-won't be that hard to figure out if the challenge is acceptable or not
Lets be realistic, if you take out the droners everyone will likely be flying one of the ships above.
Everyone who can (and with 15k starting it won't be hard) will be flying one of the above maxed out with the best drones and full supplies
so determing if you're a match or not shouldn't be that hard.

[FPF-SCM_TraceyG_XC]

Ok, I've just got an idea.

How about we simply say this. In order for mandatory combat challenge to be fought to the death, the challenger must offer to fight the battle in the same ship as the challengee, or in other words, the challengee can force the challenger to fight in the same ship if they wish. If the challenger is prepared to match ships, then the fight becomes mandatory and the challengee cannot ignore it.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

...and how much time might go by before the appropriate ship appears in the shipyards for this challenge to go forward? I'm not against the idea, I just see getting into matching ships might take some time. It seems to me like any challenge to the death will have to be fought on GSA for times sake.

[Vorcha]

Yes I would suggest using GSA for this type of battle

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I don't think they should have to have the same ship, it would just complicate matters and I don't think it anywhere near "real".   Either a captain can do it in the ship he's got in the same class or he can't (perhaps he should take PvP into account when he choses his ship), imo.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

As I stated before just make non line varaints unable to issue challanges except to other ships of the same type.

A drone variant can challange another drone variant only

An escort can only challange another escort

A carrier can only challange another carrier

But:

A line ship can challange any ship.

This will cut down on some of the matching issues, is simple to follow, and would allow for accurate BPV based challanges.  Hull class challanges would also be better under this system.

[GDA-Agave]

I like the fact that a ship wandering far from  the line of supply might be low on expendables, and thus at a disadvantage when challenged to honorable combat.  This would sort of enforce a LOS rule without requiring that one be written down and remembered.

If you get caught behind lines and challenged, you have to fight.  If you are low on supplys, then you are low on luck. 

-S'Cipio

Scipio,

There was a line in the rules about No mandatory missions since we are all klingons in klingon space.   This fact should make it relatively easy for you to get back to your base and resupply.

Quote from Rules
"The challenger must make his/her intentions known via springer chat or through use of the tell command."

Now, as far as the impromptu challenges go, you may experience the low supplies problem, but then it's up to each pilot to consider whether his supplies will get him through an impromptu match.   These type challenges are not mandatory.

Quote from Rules
"Players may also by mutual agreement enter into impromptu honorable combat at the beginning of a normal battle; however players are not compelled to accept such challenges. "

Just thought this might clear up your worries.


Agave

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Now, as far as the impromptu challenges go, you may experience the low supplies problem, but then it's up to each pilot to consider whether his supplies will get him through an impromptu match.   These type challenges are not mandatory.

Quote from Rules
"Players may also by mutual agreement enter into impromptu honorable combat at the beginning of a normal battle; however players are not compelled to accept such challenges. "

Just thought this might clear up your worries.


Agave

Well, it wasn't a worry, I thought it was pretty cool.  But I'd forgotten about impromptu challenges not being mandatory.  So yes, you are correct.  There is no way to catch anyone low on supplies unless they want you to.

Oh, well.  Was just a thought.

-S'Cipio

[FPF-DieHard]

- Solo Escorts are BS and should be banned from now until the end of time.

- Klink Carriers suck.   The only one the Klinks even fly is the D6U and that is hardly a warrior's ship.

- Bombardment ships have been done to death.

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

[madelf]

- Solo Escorts are BS and should be banned from now until the end of time.

- Klink Carriers suck.   The only one the Klinks even fly is the D6U and that is hardly a warrior's ship.

- Bombardment ships have been done to death.

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

Cheers for DH!

[madelf]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

Kzin Civil War Rules:
"PvP will be strictly banned.  A Kzin warrior is a master comp stomper, we do not waste time trying to defeat players, since we know it isn't possible"
"All houses will play on servers by themselves with no opposition, besides the AI.  AT the end of the server run, the total economy will be tallied up, and whomever with the highest wins."
"To make things easier, all ouse leaders will whine their combat ships arn't effective enough, and need more drones/AMD."
 

[Laflin]

WAAAAAH!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

Kzin Civil War Rules:
"PvP will be strictly banned.  A Kzin warrior is a master comp stomper, we do not waste time trying to defeat players, since we know it isn't possible"
"All houses will play on servers by themselves with no opposition, besides the AI.  AT the end of the server run, the total economy will be tallied up, and whomever with the highest wins."
"To make things easier, all ouse leaders will whine their combat ships arn't effective enough, and need more drones/AMD."
 

LOL nice post

But seriously,

Real Warriors use the Phaser 3

[_SSCF_Hooch]

bump 2

[ShadowLord]

This is a very good question with no clear cut answer..
I wonder if it might not be easier to arrange something like this ..


Informal/Impromptu challenges are handled as per the rules, after all your not required to accept them so -- if two/four/six pilots show up in a battle and agree they have fair ships to fight with for a challenge issue so be it..

alternative rules?

How about all formal challenges get resolved on GSA using one of several pre set ships -- say one possible choice from each hull class ..
Ie
FWL
D5L
C7
or
D5k
FDW
FWK --
whatever the ships are doesn't really matter as the other person will get the exact same ship..now here is the one variable -- the person who got challenged gets to pick which ships will be used to resolve combat.. perhaps the C7 and DN class should only be reserved for those pilots flying them in the campaign..

Anyways just an idea..

ShadowLord

[KHH Jakle]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

[FPF-DieHard]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

How about we meet personally, kick each other in the 'nads until one of us drops?

[KBF-Frankk]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

Kzin Civil War Rules:
"PvP will be strictly banned.  A Kzin warrior is a master comp stomper, we do not waste time trying to defeat players, since we know it isn't possible"
"All houses will play on servers by themselves with no opposition, besides the AI.  AT the end of the server run, the total economy will be tallied up, and whomever with the highest wins."
"To make things easier, all ouse leaders will whine their combat ships arn't effective enough, and need more drones/AMD."
 

LOL nice post

But seriously,

Real Warriors use the Phaser 3

Nope, REAL WARRIORS fly in F5 

[Hexx]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

How about we meet personally, kick each other in the 'nads until one of us drops?

I'll go first then forfeit the VP and withdraw...

[Strafer]

My take for a fair challenge is Tournament. Start a GSA Tournament scenario and pick your race. If you're Rom you get a little randomness...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

Kzin Civil War Rules:
"PvP will be strictly banned.  A Kzin warrior is a master comp stomper, we do not waste time trying to defeat players, since we know it isn't possible"
"All houses will play on servers by themselves with no opposition, besides the AI.  AT the end of the server run, the total economy will be tallied up, and whomever with the highest wins."
"To make things easier, all ouse leaders will whine their combat ships arn't effective enough, and need more drones/AMD."
 

LOL nice post

But seriously,

Real Warriors use the Phaser 3

Nope, REAL WARRIORS fly in F5 

And don't bitch about it.....

[KBF-Frankk]

Restrict all the crappy cheesy junk that infest other servers.  Let the warriors battle in real ships.

That would be The Kzin Civil War.......

Kzin Civil War Rules:
"PvP will be strictly banned.  A Kzin warrior is a master comp stomper, we do not waste time trying to defeat players, since we know it isn't possible"
"All houses will play on servers by themselves with no opposition, besides the AI.  AT the end of the server run, the total economy will be tallied up, and whomever with the highest wins."
"To make things easier, all ouse leaders will whine their combat ships arn't effective enough, and need more drones/AMD."
 

LOL nice post

But seriously,

Real Warriors use the Phaser 3
[/quote

Nope, REAL WARRIORS fly in F5 

And don't bitch about it.....

 

Hablando en serio, si es una guerra civil, las naves disponibles deberían de ser únicamente fragatas tales como G2 y F5, asi se sabría quien es quien.

 

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Come guys get to voting, I don't want any hanging chads.   

[Hexx]

I'm trying but it won't let me do it again..

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Come guys get to voting, I don't want any hanging chads.   

Those things dangling from Kroma's Ballet are not chads......

[madelf]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

How about we meet personally, kick each other in the 'nads until one of us drops?

I'll go first then forfeit the VP and withdraw...

And I'd let you go first every time.  Everyone knows I'd put my balls on the line for the empire.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

How about we meet personally, kick each other in the 'nads until one of us drops?

I'll go first then forfeit the VP and withdraw...

And I'd let you go first every time.  Everyone knows I'd put my balls on the line for the empire.

Lets tell the truth here Madelf, you just don't think Hexx can kick that high......

[Icehawk]

why cant you just simply say you can not challange a player in a lower class ship then you have if the guy wants to challange the guy in the lower ship then he can downgrade do you really want to keep getting challanged if your flyn a frigate? If you are going by honor would a klingon warior find it worth his attention to challange a lower ship than he? But of course is it honorable to sneak up on comeone while cloaked <caugh caugh>sorry joke hehe

[Fornax]

I like the idea of same ship - although you could always make a list of 'equivalent' ships.
Yep, know I'm a bit slow but I've only just found this forum following the demise of Taldren.  Guess I have to suffer with only 1 post to my name now, instead of 1000+

Nax

[KBF-Frankk]

I like the idea of same ship - although you could always make a list of 'equivalent' ships.
Yep, know I'm a bit slow but I've only just found this forum following the demise of Taldren.  Guess I have to suffer with only 1 post to my name now, instead of 1000+

Nax

Welcome Nax

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Nope, REAL WARRIORS fly in F5 

Nah, REAL warriors fly the G1.  Then there are no trained officers and men to cover your incompetance.  Just you, a bare handful of loyal retainers, and combat.  Think of the glory!

-S'Cipio

[KBF-Frankk]

Nope, REAL WARRIORS fly in F5 

Nah, REAL warriors fly the G1.  Then there are no trained officers and men to cover your incompetance.  Just you, a bare handful of loyal retainers, and combat.  Think of the glory!

-S'Cipio

Standard shiplist not have G1 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Actually REAL Warriors fly as Maverick's wing, now that takes balls.

[KBF-Frankk]

Actually REAL Warriors fly as Maverick's wing, now that takes balls.

I was wingman with Mav when he was KBF   

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I lost more ships to Maverick on RDSL than to the Coalition.....

[el-Karnak]

All challenges should be resolved on GSA with each player using a stock, unrefitted D6.......

 

How about we meet personally, kick each other in the 'nads until one of us drops?