Topic: OT .. ( kind of ...) EVE stuff and it's impact on SFC Modeling

[OlBuzzard]

I've been watching a number of forum boards ..   seems like a lot of folk are really hot to trot about this new EvE (or even the announced ST game comming up that follows the same format)

Frankly I'm a bit concerned. 

(BTW   I hope no one takes this as an opportunity to start a flame war of some sort ....  that is not my intent.  I am genuinely concerned over a few matters).

It seems to me that if the future of gaming follows this type of gaming format then the future of what we have enjoyed here so much is soon to become extinct.  That really saddens me personally.  I realize that change is inevitable.  Many times change can be for the better.  But this new concept takes away every possibility of expression of any changes, mods or modeling and IMHO will leave a large  vacuum or void in the community.

I had so looked forward to see if anyone would ever take some of those really great Klingon picts that Azel did and transform their race a bit more ..   especially in the DN and BB range.  There are several in the SFC-3 that need to be replaced .....  and the Klingon ship yard improved  ( Just my opinion ...  again not meant to be throwing a match on gasoline here )

I had hoped to see the Titan ( as developed by WOSA and the community) ...  and the Advanced Attack Cruiser  (Maybe the DD too ) ....  but it's obvious this is slipping away too !

It would have been sweet to see Nanner slip the Shelby into a ship list ...  or maybe even work with someone to develop a new fast attack cruiser for the Romulans in lieu of a possible civil war (after the distruction of the entire Senate on the last movie).

Lots of possibilities ...  and with the resources we have WOW !!

****  sigh ****  but ***  seems as though this dream may be slipping away and no way to stop it!!

sorry guys ...  just feeling a bit depressed right now !  I was just getting the hang of some of this stuff !! Though I have so much more to learn ..  it seems to hardly be worth the effort if this sort of thing takes over the gaming community...  and SFC with it !

I'm just a bit concerned and frustrated ..  thanks for letting the old man vent a bit !!

[Wicked Zombie]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

[Azel]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

[OlBuzzard]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

I think perhaps WZ  it is you who have misunderstood altogether, sir.  You have explained to me you philosophy in the means in which you decide to work on projects ..  I COMPLETELY RESPECT IT !!

The whole point of this post is focused more directly on the up comming design changes in the gaming industry such as EVE.  If the industry follows the intended course of these games ....   there will be no place for what we are doing here. 

The works that people like you  and Azel are gone.  There will no longer be a place for the work that you have shared so unselfishly to be displayed or utilized.

I'm sorry you seem to be so defensive and have totally misunderstood this post.  Perhaps I should have done a better job explaining

[OlBuzzard]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

I do believe that I have been supportive of not only WZ  but you as well bud !!  Trust me I do know something about the subject at hand though I'm only a second rate artist at best !!  (BTW ..  I'm not writting this out of frustration toward you or anyone in our community.  I AM MOST DEFINITELY concerned about this new market.  Some call it "pay to play".  When you are done there is really nothing to show for it.  The developers at this point in time show no real interest in "sharing" ...  Needless to say this aspect of the game ( Modeling) would be all but dead.

THAT death of this part of our community concerns me GREATLY.

I do hope this clears up any missunderstanding!

[Chris Johnson]

I kind-of agree with WZ...

But then keep in mind, P81's old ship is older-system-friendly and many people here appreciated that.  Well, mine's newer so I can deal with more polygons, and plus I'm not playing SFC multiplayer at the moment.  I may not be posting screenshots of stuff of your ships WZ, but I do use 'em one way or another, and I appreciate all the hard work you put into it.  I'm sure many do.

The same message is also intended for Azel, and all other hard-working modders out there working and releasing stuff for the talent-impared. And I also see the point of so many Constitution-class models, yet not as many original models.  But not everyone expands to ships beyond the Federation; the most-popular good guys in Trek lore.  However, those that do have enough imagination to actually make interesting ships, be it based on older or already-used designs, or completely-original designs, and I believe you guys, or even Brez (makin' a comeback) are doing a fine job at showing off your talent by doing such.

Overall, I believe what we need is some optimism.  We as a community need to stay together and improve ourselves if possible, if we truely appreciate the game(s) Taldren ingeniously made for us.  If we'd like to see the community last longer, I believe optimism'll help at least, be it the GR kind we all like (or just notably-observe) in Trek-lore or RDA's "Mr. Positive" attitude.  ("Hey, you guys are just being too negative!" -- Jack O'neill, SG-1 Season 5) *shrug*

[AgentSloan]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

Hello Wicked Zombie,

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the marvelous 3d starship models that you have provided to the SFC community.  I regularily visit your site(s) and I love your beautiful work.  They have given me hours of joyous SFC fun,... and I can not thank you enough for that.


Take care,
AgentSloan

[AgentSloan]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

Hello Azel,


Heck I knew you in your Atolm days,...
Someone has questioned your, Authenicity,.... Integrety ,.... Direction,...?

Well such a person, or group of people,... are brain dead fool(s).
Point 'em out to our "Section 31 Associates",... and they shall be given a "personal tour of the Airlocks". 

Your work has always been, and ever shall be an inspiration to me.
This SFC community is blessed to have yaa around.


Take care, bro
AgentSloan (aka Madman Don)

[Centurus]

I agree with you Buzz.  I was telling my mom the other night what a pain in the ass it's gonna be when the new Trek game comes, and that's only in respect to it's "pay-to-play" nature.  The way it works right now shouldn't be changed, where you can play the game as much as you want, or as little as you want.  I mean, that's why people buy games, to play when they want for as long as they want, without having to pay for the game over and over again.  A number of us could send e-mails voicing our concerns about this intended feature into the next Trek game.  It's still soon enough to try and do something about this.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Right no0w the pay to play attitude software companies have put out stopped me from playing plenty of games. I will play the single player and then throw it away, if the mod community doesn't support it. Think about this except star wars galaxies how many pay and play games are still going. Most of the time it is the same ppl playing the newer game and leaving the older ones behind.

I personally refuse to so it, I will not continuously pay for a game. I will also not pay for my kids to d othe same. I paid for the game, the PC and the internet that is enough. If this is the future of gaming then I will find something else to occupy that time, I can always get a hobbie.

[OlBuzzard]

 I was telling my mom the other night what a pain in the ass it's gonna be when the new Trek game comes, and that's only in respect to it's "pay-to-play" nature.  The way it works right now shouldn't be changed, where you can play the game as much as you want, or as little as you want.  I mean, that's why people buy games, to play when they want for as long as they want, without having to pay for the game over and over again.


 It's still soon enough to try and do something about this.

This gentlemen is where I was hoping to go with this.  

This is not about anything for me personally.  It IS about where the future of the Trek Series can be headed unless we try to do something about it.

Azel ...  you and WZ BOTH know how much I personally appreciate your work wheather it be in ground breaking new concepts or in a refit or re-texture of an old idea !!

The point is ...  this will all change ..  it will all end sooner than we think if simply just "assume" everything is going to remain status quo.

[Dawntreader]

I personally am apreciative of all the work you people do to make SFC enjoyable.  I am thankfull to Desty Nova, Thu11s, Wicked Zombie, P81, Azel, GAFY, Mackie, Cleeve, Terradyhne, Minitoba, Atra, and many others for making so many fine models.  Without you, SFC would not look as awsome as it does, and I always look forward to finding new ship models to make SFC even better.  A sad fact is some Modelers do move on to other things, and some games leave the spotlight, but your work lives on.  Thank you, all of you, for making SFC a wonderful game.

[Dizzy]

f*ck EVE.

[Rod ONeal]

f*ck EVE.

LOL

Seriously though, two things.

A: Don't buy p2p games!!! That's the only way to stop them from making them. Like I said in another post, "I'm not going to put a "coin slot" on my PC!"

B: I for one am not buying a game that can't be modded. If I wanted to do that I'd play console games. Think about it, if SFC couldn't be modded would any of us still be playing it? I think not. Just imagine where the SFC3'rs would be right now if that game couldn't be modded. A scary thought!

[Core]

i agree with you completely, sence i have played several mmo games i think the crowd could benefit from some of its aspects like the mass of players planing together .... here is an idea for a game like EVE how abut 2000 ships slugging it out in a given sector huge batels massive fleets wars on a grand scale thats whats missing in star trek games but the price tags on those experiences is a little high and the fact that you cant mod these owsome games is also a very depressing aspect of the hole ganra .... but they do have grate ideas even if they are misguided attempt to make coin

[OlBuzzard]

LOL

Seriously though, two things.

A: Don't buy p2p games!!! That's the only way to stop them from making them. Like I said in another post, "I'm not going to put a "coin slot" on my PC!"

B: I for one am not buying a game that can't be modded. If I wanted to do that I'd play console games. Think about it, if SFC couldn't be modded would any of us still be playing it? I think not. Just imagine where the SFC3'rs would be right now if that game couldn't be modded. A scary thought!

you hit a home run here bubba !!!   I feel EXACTLY the same way ..  ( OH Dizzy  ah  .. mmm  hmm...  maybe not quite so ..   ahhhh  .. mmmm...  well  you have the right idea ...  just not exactly the way Ol Buzzard would put it !   ).

Now the biggie ..  can we get enough people on this train to make enough of a splash to get something done about it.  There is already a movement to produce the next Trek game in the format we are discussing !!  I need to run right now.  Mean time if anyone can find the links for everyone to see ..   please do so.  If not by late this PM I'll see what I can dig up !

[Centurus]

Personally, if we are going to do something, shouldn't we first start with the horse's mouth?  In otherwords, in the end, who owns the sole rights to Star Trek?  Paramount.  I would say that if there is a place to start, it would be there.  I think that would be the best place to start voicing our concerns about the nature of this new game in the works. 

My political science teacher makes this statement when it comes to writing letters to businesses and even elected officials.  He says that if you say something, 100 people are thinking it, but if you write it, a 1000 people are thinking it.  Makes sense doesn't it?  So what if enough of us wrote to Paramount, via snail mail or e-mail, and told them what we thought of thei plans for the next Trek game?  Never know, might scare the hell out of them.  I for one am willing to do this, but it would be nice to know that others in the Trek gaming community are willing to do this as well.  Remember the old saying, there's strength in numbers. 

[Core]

before any one jumps to any mass mailing projects lets remind our selfs that most of the big publishers are intrested in the green aspect of the product hens we need to seriously make our case IE prove that the way they are going to make this momg is wrong for trek in all of its aspects... any takers

[Sandman3D]

Ahh, don't worry about that stuff...it's a new fad that developers are terying to implement in order to suck more money from us...like has been said, don't buy it and it will go away.

[Core]

how abut this .... the ability to add you're own ships to the game or what ever elements they want to implement but the way gild wars is doing and all of it on line