Topic: OT .. ( kind of ...) EVE stuff and it's impact on SFC Modeling

[OlBuzzard]

I've been watching a number of forum boards ..   seems like a lot of folk are really hot to trot about this new EvE (or even the announced ST game comming up that follows the same format)

Frankly I'm a bit concerned. 

(BTW   I hope no one takes this as an opportunity to start a flame war of some sort ....  that is not my intent.  I am genuinely concerned over a few matters).

It seems to me that if the future of gaming follows this type of gaming format then the future of what we have enjoyed here so much is soon to become extinct.  That really saddens me personally.  I realize that change is inevitable.  Many times change can be for the better.  But this new concept takes away every possibility of expression of any changes, mods or modeling and IMHO will leave a large  vacuum or void in the community.

I had so looked forward to see if anyone would ever take some of those really great Klingon picts that Azel did and transform their race a bit more ..   especially in the DN and BB range.  There are several in the SFC-3 that need to be replaced .....  and the Klingon ship yard improved  ( Just my opinion ...  again not meant to be throwing a match on gasoline here )

I had hoped to see the Titan ( as developed by WOSA and the community) ...  and the Advanced Attack Cruiser  (Maybe the DD too ) ....  but it's obvious this is slipping away too !

It would have been sweet to see Nanner slip the Shelby into a ship list ...  or maybe even work with someone to develop a new fast attack cruiser for the Romulans in lieu of a possible civil war (after the distruction of the entire Senate on the last movie).

Lots of possibilities ...  and with the resources we have WOW !!

****  sigh ****  but ***  seems as though this dream may be slipping away and no way to stop it!!

sorry guys ...  just feeling a bit depressed right now !  I was just getting the hang of some of this stuff !! Though I have so much more to learn ..  it seems to hardly be worth the effort if this sort of thing takes over the gaming community...  and SFC with it !

I'm just a bit concerned and frustrated ..  thanks for letting the old man vent a bit !!

[Wicked Zombie]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

[Azel]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

[OlBuzzard]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

I think perhaps WZ  it is you who have misunderstood altogether, sir.  You have explained to me you philosophy in the means in which you decide to work on projects ..  I COMPLETELY RESPECT IT !!

The whole point of this post is focused more directly on the up comming design changes in the gaming industry such as EVE.  If the industry follows the intended course of these games ....   there will be no place for what we are doing here. 

The works that people like you  and Azel are gone.  There will no longer be a place for the work that you have shared so unselfishly to be displayed or utilized.

I'm sorry you seem to be so defensive and have totally misunderstood this post.  Perhaps I should have done a better job explaining

[OlBuzzard]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

I do believe that I have been supportive of not only WZ  but you as well bud !!  Trust me I do know something about the subject at hand though I'm only a second rate artist at best !!  (BTW ..  I'm not writting this out of frustration toward you or anyone in our community.  I AM MOST DEFINITELY concerned about this new market.  Some call it "pay to play".  When you are done there is really nothing to show for it.  The developers at this point in time show no real interest in "sharing" ...  Needless to say this aspect of the game ( Modeling) would be all but dead.

THAT death of this part of our community concerns me GREATLY.

I do hope this clears up any missunderstanding!

[Chris Johnson]

I kind-of agree with WZ...

But then keep in mind, P81's old ship is older-system-friendly and many people here appreciated that.  Well, mine's newer so I can deal with more polygons, and plus I'm not playing SFC multiplayer at the moment.  I may not be posting screenshots of stuff of your ships WZ, but I do use 'em one way or another, and I appreciate all the hard work you put into it.  I'm sure many do.

The same message is also intended for Azel, and all other hard-working modders out there working and releasing stuff for the talent-impared. And I also see the point of so many Constitution-class models, yet not as many original models.  But not everyone expands to ships beyond the Federation; the most-popular good guys in Trek lore.  However, those that do have enough imagination to actually make interesting ships, be it based on older or already-used designs, or completely-original designs, and I believe you guys, or even Brez (makin' a comeback) are doing a fine job at showing off your talent by doing such.

Overall, I believe what we need is some optimism.  We as a community need to stay together and improve ourselves if possible, if we truely appreciate the game(s) Taldren ingeniously made for us.  If we'd like to see the community last longer, I believe optimism'll help at least, be it the GR kind we all like (or just notably-observe) in Trek-lore or RDA's "Mr. Positive" attitude.  ("Hey, you guys are just being too negative!" -- Jack O'neill, SG-1 Season 5) *shrug*

[AgentSloan]

The Titan hasn't slipped away, it just hasn't gotten much attention lately. I've had real life to deal with and a few personal distractions that take precedence over pixels and polygons. I also have a long list of other projects (some of which are two years old), and I haven't exactly been inspired or interested in working on any of them for various reasons.

Just as a warning, this isn't directed at you, Buzzard so don't take it personally:

If I thought the Titan, or any other ship, wouldn't get tossed aside a week after it was released, I might be a bit more motivated. However, my past experiences don't exactly help the situation much. The last time I toiled away over a ship to appease the masses, it was forgotten a week afterwards and everyone went back to using the same outdated, inaccurate versions for who-knows what reason. My charitable, community-helping attitude has dwindled considerably in the past 4 years and now I just mind my own business, stick to my own schedule, and ignore the outsiders.

If this sounds harsh or misdirected, it wasn't meant to. I just get very few chances to gripe and complain and for once I think the galaxy owes me one.

Hello Wicked Zombie,

I'd just like to take this opportunity to thank you for all the marvelous 3d starship models that you have provided to the SFC community.  I regularily visit your site(s) and I love your beautiful work.  They have given me hours of joyous SFC fun,... and I can not thank you enough for that.


Take care,
AgentSloan

[AgentSloan]

Hey Buzz its Cool for you to Gripe and Vent mate...It has to happen sometime (believe me)

For the last year, I too have felt a decline in spirit within the community...and Like WZ, I have made My designs and Models for this community...only to have a design questioned about its "authenticity" and its "direction" and sometimes its "intergity"...
For the last Few months as many of my closer mates know...I have been thinking about just calling a quits...and still am...

So Its fine to work on great Projects with other great people...But to see Ideas get tossed aside for a new TMP Connie...thats nuts
Too many people have worked too hard for their models, Ideas, or kitbashes to get them tossed aside like yesterday's newspaper...

Again this is NOT directed to anyone in particular...but as the community as a whole

Please try to look at things from the artist's point of veiw

Thanks

Hello Azel,


Heck I knew you in your Atolm days,...
Someone has questioned your, Authenicity,.... Integrety ,.... Direction,...?

Well such a person, or group of people,... are brain dead fool(s).
Point 'em out to our "Section 31 Associates",... and they shall be given a "personal tour of the Airlocks". 

Your work has always been, and ever shall be an inspiration to me.
This SFC community is blessed to have yaa around.


Take care, bro
AgentSloan (aka Madman Don)

[Centurus]

I agree with you Buzz.  I was telling my mom the other night what a pain in the ass it's gonna be when the new Trek game comes, and that's only in respect to it's "pay-to-play" nature.  The way it works right now shouldn't be changed, where you can play the game as much as you want, or as little as you want.  I mean, that's why people buy games, to play when they want for as long as they want, without having to pay for the game over and over again.  A number of us could send e-mails voicing our concerns about this intended feature into the next Trek game.  It's still soon enough to try and do something about this.

[GotAFarmYet?]

Right no0w the pay to play attitude software companies have put out stopped me from playing plenty of games. I will play the single player and then throw it away, if the mod community doesn't support it. Think about this except star wars galaxies how many pay and play games are still going. Most of the time it is the same ppl playing the newer game and leaving the older ones behind.

I personally refuse to so it, I will not continuously pay for a game. I will also not pay for my kids to d othe same. I paid for the game, the PC and the internet that is enough. If this is the future of gaming then I will find something else to occupy that time, I can always get a hobbie.

[OlBuzzard]

 I was telling my mom the other night what a pain in the ass it's gonna be when the new Trek game comes, and that's only in respect to it's "pay-to-play" nature.  The way it works right now shouldn't be changed, where you can play the game as much as you want, or as little as you want.  I mean, that's why people buy games, to play when they want for as long as they want, without having to pay for the game over and over again.


 It's still soon enough to try and do something about this.

This gentlemen is where I was hoping to go with this.  

This is not about anything for me personally.  It IS about where the future of the Trek Series can be headed unless we try to do something about it.

Azel ...  you and WZ BOTH know how much I personally appreciate your work wheather it be in ground breaking new concepts or in a refit or re-texture of an old idea !!

The point is ...  this will all change ..  it will all end sooner than we think if simply just "assume" everything is going to remain status quo.

[Dawntreader]

I personally am apreciative of all the work you people do to make SFC enjoyable.  I am thankfull to Desty Nova, Thu11s, Wicked Zombie, P81, Azel, GAFY, Mackie, Cleeve, Terradyhne, Minitoba, Atra, and many others for making so many fine models.  Without you, SFC would not look as awsome as it does, and I always look forward to finding new ship models to make SFC even better.  A sad fact is some Modelers do move on to other things, and some games leave the spotlight, but your work lives on.  Thank you, all of you, for making SFC a wonderful game.

[Dizzy]

f*ck EVE.

[Rod ONeal]

f*ck EVE.

LOL

Seriously though, two things.

A: Don't buy p2p games!!! That's the only way to stop them from making them. Like I said in another post, "I'm not going to put a "coin slot" on my PC!"

B: I for one am not buying a game that can't be modded. If I wanted to do that I'd play console games. Think about it, if SFC couldn't be modded would any of us still be playing it? I think not. Just imagine where the SFC3'rs would be right now if that game couldn't be modded. A scary thought!

[Core]

i agree with you completely, sence i have played several mmo games i think the crowd could benefit from some of its aspects like the mass of players planing together .... here is an idea for a game like EVE how abut 2000 ships slugging it out in a given sector huge batels massive fleets wars on a grand scale thats whats missing in star trek games but the price tags on those experiences is a little high and the fact that you cant mod these owsome games is also a very depressing aspect of the hole ganra .... but they do have grate ideas even if they are misguided attempt to make coin

[OlBuzzard]

LOL

Seriously though, two things.

A: Don't buy p2p games!!! That's the only way to stop them from making them. Like I said in another post, "I'm not going to put a "coin slot" on my PC!"

B: I for one am not buying a game that can't be modded. If I wanted to do that I'd play console games. Think about it, if SFC couldn't be modded would any of us still be playing it? I think not. Just imagine where the SFC3'rs would be right now if that game couldn't be modded. A scary thought!

you hit a home run here bubba !!!   I feel EXACTLY the same way ..  ( OH Dizzy  ah  .. mmm  hmm...  maybe not quite so ..   ahhhh  .. mmmm...  well  you have the right idea ...  just not exactly the way Ol Buzzard would put it !   ).

Now the biggie ..  can we get enough people on this train to make enough of a splash to get something done about it.  There is already a movement to produce the next Trek game in the format we are discussing !!  I need to run right now.  Mean time if anyone can find the links for everyone to see ..   please do so.  If not by late this PM I'll see what I can dig up !

[Centurus]

Personally, if we are going to do something, shouldn't we first start with the horse's mouth?  In otherwords, in the end, who owns the sole rights to Star Trek?  Paramount.  I would say that if there is a place to start, it would be there.  I think that would be the best place to start voicing our concerns about the nature of this new game in the works. 

My political science teacher makes this statement when it comes to writing letters to businesses and even elected officials.  He says that if you say something, 100 people are thinking it, but if you write it, a 1000 people are thinking it.  Makes sense doesn't it?  So what if enough of us wrote to Paramount, via snail mail or e-mail, and told them what we thought of thei plans for the next Trek game?  Never know, might scare the hell out of them.  I for one am willing to do this, but it would be nice to know that others in the Trek gaming community are willing to do this as well.  Remember the old saying, there's strength in numbers. 

[Core]

before any one jumps to any mass mailing projects lets remind our selfs that most of the big publishers are intrested in the green aspect of the product hens we need to seriously make our case IE prove that the way they are going to make this momg is wrong for trek in all of its aspects... any takers

[Sandman3D]

Ahh, don't worry about that stuff...it's a new fad that developers are terying to implement in order to suck more money from us...like has been said, don't buy it and it will go away.

[Core]

how abut this .... the ability to add you're own ships to the game or what ever elements they want to implement but the way gild wars is doing and all of it on line

[OlBuzzard]

Ahh, don't worry about that stuff...it's a new fad that developers are terying to implement in order to suck more money from us...like has been said, don't buy it and it will go away.

I believe you are partially correct here ...  but I also believe that we stand by and do nothing..   this will only get worse.  Some have said that the game is VERY stable and this the way gaming is meant to be. 

Hmmm  sounds to me like that those who feel this way can not differentiate between how soft ware is written ( and that is really a big part of what makes a game stable) ...  and the style of play  (meaning this new concept of pay as you go with nothing to show for your investment)

That being said, if we do start up a campaign of sorts to write to the developers it would have to be well organized, and done in such a way that it would not be offensive to those writting the new games.  One thing I DO understand is proper protocol within the business community.  If you write and tell them off rudely ..  they will pretty much blow it off and ignore it.  If you over do it and you are sucking so hard that the letter is dripping with syrup ..  same results.

Perhaps if there is enough interest here we can move the thread ...  or start one in a more appropriate place and organize this.


thoughs??

[Core]

first things first though we need to decide what is it that we want from the developers and the publishers as a hole or individual groups of gamers then among our selfs decide which point should be taken in to consideration

[OlBuzzard]

only thoughts i have on this after looking into this is:
Firstly Contact other Trek Gaming Forums (even if we dont agree with them) as we can only beat this with cold hard numbers. I suggest anyone who visits other forums to spread the work of this crusade again pay as you play trek games.

Secondly a full scale flood of Snail Mail  (emails can be deleted after all and records of emails can be tampered with) politly stating the Developers that the communities are not happy with the idea of this pay as you play version in the works and if released will be boycotted by all members.

Thirdly a reprsentive from each fourm who agree with us on this to get a Petition of signatures (hand writen is best) I Belive a fully acceptable and powerful Petition must have atleast 3000 signatures behind it to hold any sway with major companies to be sent to Paramount (this should be done at the same time as the snail mail to game makers) The double Punch of letters should make them take another look at what they are doing.

Forthly and lastly if the game goes though we do as we said and Boycotte it till they take it off the market.

ok ..  you and Core are both right.

Next we need a place to discuss this ..  some sort of nook or cranny that would be appropriate on this forum board.

The next thing would be for a handfull 3 to 5 of us at most to decide what we will aim at and what we wont.  BTW...  just a suggestion ...  we leave certain aspects OUT !!  such as how many drones or fighters to have on a ship.  Do we do the SFB only format.  Here's why ... 

1.  Those aspects of the game have already been done.  Some of the controversies around them are still settled to this day.  I will not personally agree to help any forum that will in the end rehash old ideas that may OR MAY NOT work.  New game developers are looking for NEW games.  Those topics are often very "political" in nature.  We will end getting bogged down in the politics of the game instead of banning togeather and getting the job done.

2.  We need to focus on aspects that would benefit ANY Trek game.  Some examples are:
a.) 3-D format
b.) interchangeable weapons
c.) multiple races (more than just 2 or 3)
d.) accessable ship list editing
e.) server kit availability for greater flexability in gaming choices

At any rate if any of the forum moderators read this and wish to make suggestion as to the best way to handle this ...   I am listening.

thanks again. 

( hope this works )

[Reverend]

I am really sorry for this sort of attitude, or sentiment. I have always tried to give as much positive input, and 0% negative input, on any and all works. Unfortunately, after posting several similar phrases and gestures, they lose thier validity, or have been scoffed at, which, can be understandable. My intention was to be a cheerleader, but, not enough here and too much there make me seem foolish. I just wish I could have had more of the impact I had envisioned. For this I am truly sorry, you guys really do make a difference in more ways than one.
For a good tie now, I had serious solid designs and approached Those That Choose for creation of 'my' 'own' kind of Star Trek tactical combat simulator, a kind of mish-mash of what seems popular, over time, but as you can see with the new forum, its a pointless venture and wsted dream, at this point. In a much lesser way, I can understand your persuasions. I just hope my feeble words can at least quell your disappointment(s)... there are those of us who are continually fascinated by others boundless creativity.

[Red_Green]

Is this a safe place to gripe a bit? I kinda agree with WZ's earlier post,(2nd one from top)  The request threads are often 30 hits long and the release threads are maybe 8 and then its forgotten or nitpicked to death. Now I don't want to get in hot water with you WZ and mean this just to offer a reason why people might go back to ships less accurate and even not as well done as yours. Computer overhead. I notice your style of mapping involves a dozen or more textures. I had 1 ship (The earlier Titan version done by Azel and textures by you that took 2-3 minutes to load on my system. I since upgraded my graphics card, but the average on my old card for ship loading was 30 seconds. Thats why even though you have the best Voyager out there, it doesn't show up in mods that need to run a server for the masses.

RANT-Here is my personal beef-probably said it before in a different way and I probably should just let it go and move on but............
Ever since SFC3 came out it really ruined this forum.  I got tired of the game always being cut down  and ended up ill advisedly flaming back at the community over it out of pent up frustration.  My models here have always attracted derided comments going back to 1st ship. Though the majority here are supportive, the people that were so diruptive trolls in the past left an impression about this forum that I can not seem to shake.  Recently I moved to different forums and found much less nit picking and they are geared towards the game I prefer. 

RANT-Oh 1 more thorn in my side. I am sick of Feds. Again no dis respect to those that mod. But for example, I spend 6 months on a mod that features Minor SFB races and the 1st thing out of anyones mouths is the mod doesn't have enough Fed ships in it. Geez its a mod that is not designed to be mainstream and the readme says what it entails and a few d/l it and all they want to do is play FEd right away. Or I love the comments about they wish it was more like stock. Hey easy solution. Play the stock game then oh and pre-patch so it crashes a lot  END RANT

Regarding this online game format or whatever the hell its called. I don't care for it at all. I suspect I will be modding SFC3 years from now like those diehard SFBers that still play after years, It gets to be nostalgic after awhile I guess. The online roleplaying is no fun if you enjoy modding the game more than playing it. Its a cash cow with the monthly feee and all.

EDIT-hey sorry if I missed the theme of the thread but the original posts seamed to offer 2 or 3 topic areas.

[wulf111]

i have to admint upon hearing that Star Trek is moving to a P2P format is very distresing since i REFUSE!!! to pay more money for a game i have already paid almost $50 for. So if i see a tag on the box of a game that says "Internet connection required to play" i usually just throw it back on the shelf and tell myself "screw that". i did try everquest once buti thought it boring and a waste of time and money i rather spend time doing something more constructive like designing new ships for SFC. Using my imagination instead for going "pokey, pokey, sticky, sticky" to some digital monster that i doint get crap for killing. I mean whats more fun that flying a ship YOU!!! created.

[Reverend]

i I mean whats more fun that flying a ship YOU!!! created.

..or one someone you know created! I got a claim to fame! Yeah!!

[wulf111]

Amen Rev

[Red_Green]

Online games won't be going away. I just read a post in another SFC game forum. It said over 50 dynaverse members are online playing EVE. They here about it via word of mouth from other Dyna players. Worse yet, Eve has over 100,000 total members. With monthly fees its like selling 100,000 copies of the game every month. This makes releasing games without monthly fees unattrative to gaming companies. Look at all the developors that keep kicking the bucket.

[Core]

i personally heard of eve even before its realise but only had the chance to try it out last month for 10 days and i can tell you that the game is very good ... although a tad lagy for my tastes but most  of the elements needed to do an ST game are there though some aspects are clearly redundant like mining for instance there are some other thing that are off but hell its the first game of this developer so its very good considering

[OlBuzzard]

What all of this comes down to guys is seeing the "creative aspect" of this game ..  and others to come as well (ie NWN ) will evaporate.

Each of you have expressed the desire to see it continue.  ( Wheather you believe it or not) ... Even WZ and Azel who seemed to be bent on me taking something out on them  (BTW....  there is no way on the face of this earth that is the case.  I deeply respect their work and the means in which they choose to share it with the rest of the community.  I further more think we have expressed that appreciation without any form of contradiction.  They are both simply some of the best examples of talent this community has to offer.)

The dream slipping away has more to it than just 2 or 3 personal ships that I mentioned...  (even if some of you are sick of Feddies ...  sorry but until i get a bit more experience under my belt with some of the others I simply work on what I know best. )  It should be noted that a big part of that dream was to work on the Klingon ships ...  and without going back to an old thread let's just say that Azel demonstrated his impeccable ability to draw from a very deep well of file picts with over whelming totally awesome ships that could be modeled.  Yes there are others ..  ( I believe that someone recently requested Mirak ships.)

My over all point is simply this ...  all of this dies under the new "pay to play" format.  Creativity will be pushed aside.

Granted there will be a lot of $$$  made by someone.  As a purchasing director for the company I work for I can appreciate that.  If, however, there is a very real living community at risk here ...  should we not have a deeper appreciation for those who devote their time and efforts?  Should we not at least try on their behalf to do our part to share with the future developers how much a part of this community this sort of modeling and development means to us.

That to me is the least we can do.

[GotAFarmYet?]

As I said I will not pay to play on-line. I will only buy games that have a single player option, and usually check out the on-line stuff but don't have the time to invest on that type of thing.

[Reverend]

This probrobly belongs in another forum, but I am either too proud or too ashamed to post such there.... but.. (if you guys feel it doesnt belong, say so, and Ill delete it noooo problem)....

I have already invested some money into a concept of using similar functions, feel, and playbility of SFC, but making it into a harmonious, consistent, continuous space format.. no hex map, just a drop down ''hex coordinate'' for those desiring so. You could dock with bases, planets, operate your shuttle independently, and even run a little character around here and there.  Various other features I shouldn't speak of, but I promise it'd be at least entertaining. I wished to see the tactical combat simulation of SFC combined with the universe of Star Trek, minus the MMORPG group carrot-on-a-stick tactics.
I feel that one could combine a standard 'single player' game's settings with a select few of the characteristics of many online games into a harmonious, enjoyable adventure for all.

Unfortunately, someone else beat me to the punch, and is creating a game that will be Star Wars Galaxies but Star Trek stuff instead. Despite what little has been said, it says enough. That someone else also made games that had nothing to do with Trek beforehand, so that gives them the "experience" that makes them 'feasible' and 'trustworthy'. In other words, they come from established companies, companies that can make stuff that makes money. Which is cheating in my book.

The whole point of saying all this is that were I in a magical world, I would think that there could be two versions of such a thing... if the money to pay back the script writers, programmers, graphic artists, so on, that I had to charge to play, then I figure I could just do this.... the "box game" would come with said (and unsaid) items/features. IF you wanted to play with/against everyone else, then... 

See, I figure the ever-popular MMORPGs are going to run out a lot of customers out of the video game market, only that you HAVE to pay to even look at it. Suppose Reverend's game sucks? Well, you bought the box, you can trade it at Game Exchange or sell it on Ebay... but at least you don't have to put your bank account at risk to just have the opportunity to see if my stuff sucks or not.
Suppose its nifty, and you want to fight them 9th Fleet wackos? Well, a nominal fee could apply... of course, then there is Bioware... they dont pay to play their games online... hmmm...

Then, there's the modability issue, which would make such a project unacceptable without its implementation.

[Centurus]

Personally, I don't care if the next game is an online only game or not.  What I really don't like at all, and this is the only thing I don't like, is pay-2-play, and I believe that's what Buzz was trying to say, plain and simple.  If the game is online only, well, they could kinda up the price a bit so that they get their money back, and we are left with a game that we can play as frequently as we wish without any additional charges, and if we don't like it, we can always sell it to someone else. 

The main thing, I believe, here is this pay-2-play nonesense.  That is what has to go, and we, as a community, as an organization in our own right, should do our best to try to convince them that pay-2-play is the wrong way to take Trek games. 

The question is simple.  Who else here feels this way too?  I'm willing to bet my recently promotion in the 9th that this is exactly how Buzz feels, that the pay-2-play has got to go.  Anyone else?