Topic: Suggestions...  (Read 4378 times)

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Offline Whoo

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Suggestions...
« on: September 10, 2004, 09:05:11 am »
We all know how fun/boring on-line campaigns can be, boring due to the typical 1 turn a day scenario and exciting due to the plots and strategies devised when planning attacks.

I had a concept I threw out at GZ, which was a on-line campaign that utilized both daily turns and immediate movement based upon a timer listed for that group.
IE within a sector map, you can freely move based upon a time/space scenario, using a point/click map in lui of the standard table square map.
So that means movement in any direction.
I also had opted for stealth settings, IE you can simulate power downs and cloak via settings available which the math would adjust various radar pings so to speak.  IE higher stealth means a blip or no blip at all where a full blown attack would give you full read-outs.

So summary of maps settings is daily turns for sectors (moving from sector a to sector be would be your squad sitting at the border with a command to move to a new sector) and common movement on a timed basis.

Then I thought of PBR and the limitations of SFC (IE only a limited amount of ships within a given game) and also conceptualized a possible degrading fleet scenario, using a % of ships vs ships compared to what ships you have in your fleet.
That seemed a bit far fetched since 20 to 5 odds in a battle may be unstoppable in a normal situation, but in SFC depending on the ships, 1 ship could possibly take out all 20 if the circumstances were true.
So then I conceptualized the degrading fleet roll, IE assigning a point system to each ship within a battle, using a random roll based upon the total numbers combined within both fleets in a battle, adding in luck enhancers and un-enhancers to create a more realistic approach to the outcome of a major battle.
Conceptual at best.
Then I thought of PBR, and even though you could have a vast fleet, PBR rules would still apply to attack squads, IE utilize this concept on a match per match basis, and took that even further.
So what I thought of was a 3 tier system.
#1-Standard quadrants Basic movement through space, simulating vast distances traveled by patrols, IE the daily turns.
#2-Sector space- within the quadrant, considered non-warp travel and occupyable territory.  Most of your time will be spent in these areas moving, supplying and fortifying these territories.
#3-Battle Space.
New map, showing all patrols.  Now this is where I would be a bit shady, but it would show full PBR style setups, to where the only means of escape by a vessel is to leave the battle area.
IE because you leave the map in game, doesnt mean it leaves the battle area.  You still have to remove yourself from the battle scene, and using this concept you CAN simulate damage by slowing the withdrawl speed.
In this map you can also dominate withdrawls, fortify patrols and have multiple battle sessions within a time period for a length of time.

Anyhow thats the short version, something that is completely doable but would need alot of interest and more importantly SFB/SFC input.

I have no intention of actually participating, but I have no code projects and I have always wanted to code something like this.

So let er rip, good idea, bad and what would you like to see?
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Offline madelf

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #1 on: September 10, 2004, 11:52:14 am »
Don't trust anything from the GZ people

Offline Dizzy

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #2 on: September 10, 2004, 12:07:28 pm »
u need to know more about how campaigns work and what is allowed in the scripting API. Not much of anything u proposed would be possible short of a .exe rewrite.

Offline KHH Jakle

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #3 on: September 10, 2004, 12:42:22 pm »
Don't trust anything from the GZ people

You sure you aren't confusing us with say WGL and the Morphites?

If you did mean us...thenyou are too late for GDA, FPF, KBF and GFL...they are all my evil clutches now - muahahahahahah

Offline KHH Jakle

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #4 on: September 10, 2004, 12:44:09 pm »
u need to know more about how campaigns work and what is allowed in the scripting API. Not much of anything u proposed would be possible short of a .exe rewrite.

Dizzy - he's not talking about modding the D2 - he's talking about building something like an online campaign, but it would have to be played out on GSA (I think anyway...)

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #5 on: September 10, 2004, 12:50:15 pm »
u need to know more about how campaigns work and what is allowed in the scripting API. Not much of anything u proposed would be possible short of a .exe rewrite.

I don't think he's talking about using the D2 engine at all.  I think he is proposing to code something new.

Whoo:

For your fleet problem, you could go with the F&E solution to huge stacks of counters.  Each stack must form into a battle fleet with a command ship.  Each command ship has a command rating that lets it command only so many ships at a time.

So, while a 20 counter Klingon stack may pounce upon and 15 counter Kzinti stack, only 5 or 6 ships may fight at a time.  (Depending upon the command rating or each selected command ship.  After each round of fleet combat casualties are removed (or crippled) and a new battle line is drawn up from the remaining ships and command ships.  This continues until one side is eliminated or decides to withdraw.

You could do the same thing here.  With the max number of players in a GSA match being six, and nine being the max number of ships they can control, then give DN's and BCH's a command rating of 8.  Give smaller hulls a lower command rating.

Fleets of any size can then meet in any hex.  The rounds of combat would then be done on GSA (or whatever you had in mind) with the command ship for each round deciding how many ships on its side could fight in each round.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

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Offline Dizzy

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #6 on: September 10, 2004, 12:53:24 pm »
Ya, thats like Max's F&E thing. STOC guys also done that. Love it, but that sh*t is too hard to schedule and therefore slows down to a crawl. Not much to get excited about and stay excited about.

D2 is where its at. For now.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #7 on: September 10, 2004, 01:27:27 pm »
Ya, thats like Max's F&E thing. STOC guys also done that. Love it, but that sh*t is too hard to schedule and therefore slows down to a crawl. Not much to get excited about and stay excited about.

D2 is where its at. For now.

pretty much, Max's F&E is more serious than a D2 and unfortunately do to it's nature, is not as exclusive.  The best part of a D2 is anyone can sign on anytime and play.  This is also it's worse feature.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline madelf

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #8 on: September 10, 2004, 01:53:26 pm »
Don't trust anything from the GZ people

You sure you aren't confusing us with say WGL and the Morphites?

If you did mean us...thenyou are too late for GDA, FPF, KBF and GFL...they are all my evil clutches now - muahahahahahah

In one GZ cycle, I completely busted my ass for the one thing they could give, the #1 icon, which I EARNED.  ANd the bastards never gave it to me.

Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #9 on: September 10, 2004, 02:09:48 pm »
Don't trust anything from the GZ people

You sure you aren't confusing us with say WGL and the Morphites?

If you did mean us...thenyou are too late for GDA, FPF, KBF and GFL...they are all my evil clutches now - muahahahahahah

In one GZ cycle, I completely busted my ass for the one thing they could give, the #1 icon, which I EARNED.  ANd the bastards never gave it to me.

That was before Jakle took over, different league now.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Lepton

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #10 on: September 10, 2004, 02:10:28 pm »
Well, Whoo. nice to see you here.  I have been making similar suggestions about a GSA-based campaign ever since I got here.  Let me first comment on your suggested system.  While it seems innovative, it is perhaps a bit overcomplicated and to me not that clear at this point.

I have put forth two major suggestions for an online campaign.

One is a system that would be essentially a D2-looking entity that would be entirely player vs player.  There is already an existing web-map that reads a D2 SQL database that could be easily modified for any kind of database. Battles would be reported to a web-page interface.  Battles could be generate either by a race-leader's movements of assets or the scenarios could be generated randomly via PBR rules as that is an existing standard.

Another system would dispense with the D2-based hex map and merely have a map resembling a stellar chart with planets, etc.  There would be theatres of action on this map such that one would request a mission in that theatre (planet, bases, nebula, some other map feature) via a web-based interface.  Results reported via that same interface.  The outcome would affect possession of those areas and essentially move a frontline of sorts that one could see on this web map.  This type of system seems ripe for a random mission generator as well as theatre specific scenarios (planet assaults, base assaults, shipyard assaults, etc.).

The details of economies for races, shipyards, etc, etc, is all up to whoever tackles this challenge.  One caveat in this area though is that I have envisioned these campaigns as essentially offering a mission generation system that makes casual PvP play meaningful by placing it into a context.  The more that one adds economic or other metagame aspects to a campaign is the more that it becomes a strategic game and becomes more about this metagame than actually playing SFC for the fun of it. 

In all the suggestions I have made I am assuming that when missions are generated randomly that there is no specific limit on ships that can come up in these scenarios.  Essentially, one side or another cannot run out of DNs, or BCHs, or even FFs.  They just show up in scenarios based on certain probabilities or could be selected for use in a manner similar to how it is done in your Divisional League matches.   If there are a limited number of ships for each side then of course you have to deal with ship assignments, etc, which is not only complicated but also deprives people from flying certain ships if they are never assigned them.

To my mind, the essential component of such an online campaign should be fairness and ease of use with a certain light-heartedness.  How this would be evident in such a campaign is that there would not be fixed racial allegiances.  If there are a group of people who are online and want to play, some people may have to "switch sides" to even out the numbers so that everyone can play.  It would be my hope that those who "switch sides" would do their best for that "side" as hopefully they are there to play the game and have fun, not just to win.  Fairness as well would consist of a rule that requires that when one side makes a mission request the opposing side also gets a mission request that must be played.  Thereby, the outcomes of these missions would determine the outcome of the campaign not merely the aggregation of missions run as in the D2.  Ease of use would be a simple web-based interface with rules that are simple and uncomplicated.

Those are my suggestions and comments.  I invite you to check out Bonk's web-based map and perhaps have a look at this site that while WWII-based uses a system similar to the one I have suggsted above.

www.vef2.net

Good Luck


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Offline madelf

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #11 on: September 10, 2004, 03:03:34 pm »
Don't trust anything from the GZ people

You sure you aren't confusing us with say WGL and the Morphites?

If you did mean us...thenyou are too late for GDA, FPF, KBF and GFL...they are all my evil clutches now - muahahahahahah

In one GZ cycle, I completely busted my ass for the one thing they could give, the #1 icon, which I EARNED.  ANd the bastards never gave it to me.

That was before Jakle took over, different league now.

Still hasn't shown me any reason to trust them.  I was robbed by the league named GZ, and this is named the same.  Sins of the father and all that.

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2004, 03:28:29 pm »

Still hasn't shown me any reason to trust them.  I was robbed by the league named GZ, and this is named the same.  Sins of the father and all that.


No wonder they call you Mad elf.  lol.

For the duration of this post, I rename myself GZ.  Now that I own the name, I own the sins of my predecessors.  So here you go.  ;)



Feel free to add this to your sig file.

I now return to my normally scheduled name.

I can vouch that the GZ league has been very fair to all since the time the GDA joined them.  You sould give this new management a chance.  The fleet league is quite fun.  And now, we finally get to fly with PBR.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

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Offline Green

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2004, 07:45:09 pm »

Still hasn't shown me any reason to trust them.  I was robbed by the league named GZ, and this is named the same.  Sins of the father and all that.


No wonder they call you Mad elf.  lol.

For the duration of this post, I rename myself GZ.  Now that I own the name, I own the sins of my predecessors.  So here you go.  ;)



Feel free to add this to your sig file.

I now return to my normally scheduled name.

I can vouch that the GZ league has been very fair to all since the time the GDA joined them.  You sould give this new management a chance.  The fleet league is quite fun.  And now, we finally get to fly with PBR.

-S'Cipio


Agree

Offline Vorcha

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #14 on: September 12, 2004, 11:35:46 am »
Yes these guys do a good job.  The old crew made everyone angry hence the formation of WGL.....both are dead now thank god.  Jakle has the best interests of the community in mind and is working hard to find a way to combine GSA style play w/ D2 play.  I told myself I wouldn't play GZ again after the last fiasco...then joined and played WGL which Morph screwed up.  As long as Jakle's involved w/ the new GZ group I think GZ is worth the time and trouble again.

My humble Opinion.....V

Offline 14G_Tiger

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Re: Suggestions...
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2004, 04:54:41 pm »
while you guys are on the topic of GZ/WGL..did WGL go off the web??