Topic: GZ-ize a D2....

[KHH Jakle]

Can we GZ-ize a D2?

So some folks at GZ have talked about doing our own D2, but NiHM's server company uses a server type that's non-compatible with the D2, so we had to drop the whole thing - but I have still been thinking about it.

What is cool about D2 from a GZ/GSA player perspective:  it's a constant match, waiting to happen.  Rather than sitting in the GSA lobby trying to work out terms (for fun games) or set up a League match, it's as if the map is the Lobby.  You can team up with guys and roam around looking for opponents to jump on.

What's not cool:  the way reduction of PvP action and the 24/7 availability - which allows for dramatic map gains based on your opponents NOT being online.  That last bit isn't a judgment or a slight - I understand it is accepted as the standard for D2 play.  I am just saying that's a negative from the perspective of a GZ/GSA player (or at least some of them).  In a way, it's analogous to the old ladder league system, where the top fleets where the ones that had the most bodies that could stay logged on the longest, to play more matches and (win or loose) add points to the fleet total and advances them up on the ladder.

So, when I think what a 'GZ-izes' D2 server would look like: 
* Small Map, with all races available for play
* No AI scripts - I believe there is a setting on D2 that only allows missions when there are Human players in the hex
* Rules (all the usual stuff you guys use now?more or less)

This would allow for pure PvP matching action, with gains or losses on the map purely the result of those matches.

Obviously, this would not be eveybody's cup of tea - but when is any D2 server everybody's cup of tea?  Call it recreational - not a serious server.  BUT, in terms of players getting involved, I can almost garuntee that a set up like this would pull a very large segment of the GSA only/GZ players (they wouldn't have to waste time in GSA?.yet still get the game play they're looking for).  Add to this the D2 base that would be interested in this kind of set up - I think you have the potential for some serious D2 & pvp action - essentially the best of both worlds.

So that's my pitch.

[Bonk]

* No AI scripts - I believe there is a setting on D2 that only allows missions when there are Human players in the hex

Nope, can do the reverse (no human-human matching), but the human-AI matching cannot be disabled to the best of my knowledge.

[FPF-DieHard]

I beleive custom scripts can be made to only trigger when an enemy is in the hex.  Notice how "Enemy Sweep" will appear on a base are planet when there is a draftable enemy?

But honestly, I do not see much point in a PvP only D2. 

[Grim]

But honestly, I do not see much point in a PvP only D2. 

I agree, if you want pure PVP action then play on GSA, simple.

[KHH Jakle]

Not so simple....

I think there is potentially a beast that can be built that is an improvement over logging on to GSA, yet still offering a high degree of PvP action...melding in traditional D2 elements ....and using it as a platform of course.

[Grim]

It would be interesting to see what sort of numbers would turn up for a pure PVP server,some people seem to forget that not everyone plays for pvp, also not everyone is good at it and may feel frustrated in playing a pure pvp server where they might die on a frequent basis.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Not so simple....

I think there is potentially a beast that can be built that is an improvement over logging on to GSA, yet still offering a high degree of PvP action...melding in traditional D2 elements ....and using it as a platform of course.

Sound like an interestin' idea. I'd be willin' to participate if someone put up such a server.

[Kroma BaSyl]

The main issue you would have to contend with is that if a mission only presents itself when a human player is present in a hex, the easiest way to defend your space is to not enter your boarder hexes. If this could be worked out you might be onto something.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

The main issue you would have to contend with is that if a mission only presents itself when a human player is present in a hex, the easiest way to defend your space is to not enter your boarder hexes. If this could be worked out you might be onto something.

The only thing that immediately leaps to my mind is to put the DV on a clock.  The longer you sit in a hex, the more the DV slowly shifts in your favor until someone comes along to shoo you away.  If the owners never respond, then the hex eventually becomes yours.

This would even solve the "mission time" issue.

Of course, sitting in a hex and watching its DV grow is rather boring.  As long as I'm sitting I'd just as soon blow up an AI or two to pass the time.  "Mission time" issue be damned.

However, I'll try just about anything once.

-S'Cipio

[Lepton]

GSA needs to campaignized, not the converse.  The system is very simple.  Web-based map that already exists from either Bonk or DarkElf, a web interface for registering the outcomes of battles, and a persistent database that keeps track of everything.

The campaign details are infinitely flexible, but here would be my idea of a good idea. A series of short campaigns that are of select General War theatres with traditional enemies and allies.  The web interface to generate combat scenarios to be resolved could either be based on actual strategic movements conducted by players a la F&E or be based on a short of random generation of scenarios perhaps based on the Patrol Battle Rules.  One would select a hex or just some general area to take a mission in and this would effect the defense value of that area, very similar to the D2.  The difference here is that nothing can happen unless both sides show up.  If there aren't sufficient players, nothing happens just as it should.  The big problem here will be when there are unequal numbers of people online for each side.  I say, screw sides.  Do you want to play the game or not in a fair manner or not?  If there are more people on who would rather be playing fed and the klinks need people to keep the games moving, some "feds" are just going to have to switch "sides" for however long there is an imbalance.  And of course this is an honor system.  If someone wants to bag it for a "side" they don't support, that is their issue and a black mark on their soul.  I think most of the players would be honorable enough to do their best for whatever mission they are flying.  Otherwise, why play, if you don't actually want to play the game?

That's been my pitch practically since I got here.

[FPF-DieHard]

I think most of the players would be honorable enough to do their best for whatever mission they are flying.  Otherwise, why play, if you don't actually want to play the game?

That's been my pitch practically since I got here.

+ Karma to you 

Actually, I think the best solution for D2 is accept it's imperfections and just play it for fun.  It really is a stupid game but I love it.

Jahkle, what about a GZ "Farm League?"  I'm sure there are many players who would be interested in becoming better PvP pilots but are a little intimidated about going up agasint the "pros" who've been playing for years.  Might be a good way to further intergrate the D2 and GZ crowd.

[Slider]

There was an idea a while back (FleetWARS) that merged the 2 worlds but the talent to pull it off was all in D2 and we didnt know how to do it.

The idea was to expand the ability of players to play other players in a D2 style arena but with only PvP intent and allainces Say KBF and KHH vs FPF and FEDX.

Right now in GSA you can only have a 3 v 3 match tops...but In D2 you can have 2 full squads of guys go in say 25 on a side. Each with certain ships assigned by the MYSQL server and using a small focused shiplist.

So for the sake of simplicity we say that the Feds all in BCFs are going to fight the Klinks all in c7s (ok this will never happen but is just an example).

50 guys go in, each angling for matchups , once a player loses his ship he gets a garbage tug to fly around with. Eventually a side either dies or withdraws.

Simplistic as that sounds that is more complicated than any GSA player has done a PVP without D2.

Think of it more as a skirmish or border battle that happens along a series of hexes than a Full on D2 event.

[FPF-DieHard]

There was an idea a while back (FleetWARS) that merged the 2 worlds but the talent to pull it off was all in D2 and we didnt know how to do it.

The idea was to expand the ability of players to play other players in a D2 style arena but with only PvP intent and allainces Say KBF and KHH vs FPF and FEDX.

Right now in GSA you can only have a 3 v 3 match tops...but In D2 you can have 2 full squads of guys go in say 25 on a side. Each with certain ships assigned by the MYSQL server and using a small focused shiplist.

So for the sake of simplicity we say that the Feds all in BCFs are going to fight the Klinks all in c7s (ok this will never happen but is just an example).

50 guys go in, each angling for matchups , once a player loses his ship he gets a garbage tug to fly around with. Eventually a side either dies or withdraws.

Simplistic as that sounds that is more complicated than any GSA player has done a PVP without D2.

Honestly, is sounds rather silly.   With the inconsistancy of drafting and other issues in D2, it simply makes more sense to do that kind of a war via IP games with a Schedule.  F&E via email and then resolve the tactical combat on IP games makes more sense than that to.

[Slider]

Ok well thanks anyway.

 

[FPF-DieHard]

Ok well thanks anyway.

 

Not trying to piss in anyone's Cherios, it's just that D2 is a very imperfect game.  If you want to accomplish an organized war with a real OOB or set amount of BPV to spend, it is NOT the best way to facilitate this.  The inconsistancy with drafting and the fact the IP/GSA games are a BILLION times more stable should make the decision for you.

[KHH Jakle]

Jahkle, what about a GZ "Farm League?"  I'm sure there are many players who would be interested in becoming better PvP pilots but are a little intimidated about going up agasint the "pros" who've been playing for years.  Might be a good way to further intergrate the D2 and GZ crowd.

Explain 'Farm League' in more detail.  Do you mean like a 'minor' league - mirroring the Divisional, but limited to those who don't quite feel ready for the majors?

There are a good deal of GZ players (KHH Shadowlord (aka Duck) for example) who are all about playing games with the idea being to improve the opponent's ability in the game. 

It's just a matter of the time and place - many of us don't sit in the GSA lobby anymore, because there is no sense in it - which is why divisional league works.  We show up for our matches then move on to other pusuits (which for the last week has been the GW3).

[KHH Jakle]

it's just that D2 is a very imperfect game.  If you want to accomplish an organized war with a real OOB or set amount of BPV to spend, it is NOT the best way to facilitate this.  The inconsistancy with drafting and the fact the IP/GSA games are a BILLION times more stable should make the decision for you.

So, not terribly concerned about strict OOB (like PBR) - what I AM interested in what the D2 offers over GSA campaign:  persistent environment.  Trying to harness that....

[Kroma BaSyl]

Jahkle, what about a GZ "Farm League?"  I'm sure there are many players who would be interested in becoming better PvP pilots but are a little intimidated about going up agasint the "pros" who've been playing for years.  Might be a good way to further intergrate the D2 and GZ crowd.

Explain 'Farm League' in more detail.  Do you mean like a 'minor' league - mirroring the Divisional, but limited to those who don't quite feel ready for the majors?

There are a good deal of GZ players (KHH Shadowlord (aka Duck) for example) who are all about playing games with the idea being to improve the opponent's ability in the game. 

It's just a matter of the time and place - many of us don't sit in the GSA lobby anymore, because there is no sense in it - which is why divisional league works.  We show up for our matches then move on to other pusuits (which for the last week has been the GW3).

Yeah Farm league equals the minors.

[KHH Jakle]

Well....that's theoretically doable - but it would require sufficient participants to make it 'go'.  ("we look for things to make us go" - remember that one ? )

I have a hard time believing 6-8 teams (that's a minimum of 18 people) would suddenly line up and say "I'd like to participate in a Divisionl 'Minor' League" and then also have the leadership on each team necessary to keep the team organized and schedule the matches.  But it is possible...

Let's put it this way - my driving ulterior motive is to stock the regular Divisional League with active players - who want to play the game that WE (GZ) play (PBR team games with a Divisional League format).  Thank you GDA, PFP, KBF and GFL for participating, as well as the individual players that crossed the line and joined a GZ fleet.

I am not looking to stock a non-existent league.  However if sufficient people lined up and said having the aforementioned league would get them involved in the game that GZ plays...well then I would certainly try to accomodate them.

What I would say is - and I've made this offer before - that if an individual is not strong in PvP and would like to increase that strength in some GSA games, then I could match them with an appropriate fleet (proper race and demeanor) in GZ.

[Vorcha]

This is a tough nut to crack bud.  I've thought for a long time that there has to be a way to create a D2 like game using ip or gsa as the interface to settle hex matches...however...I'm at a loss to figure something that works out.

Chris Jones and his pack have been developing something along this line for their Universe at War campaign.  They are completely rewriting OP and I've been helping him play test.  Based upon what I read in his forum the campiagn will be sweet....So...You might pop over there and talk to him or Pride and see what their idea is.  Maybe combine what has been mentioned here, with what you guys in GZ are planning w/ Chris's ideas....just a thought.  I wouldn't get Morph in on this at the beginning though as he'll foul it up somehow hehe.

V