Topic: Hand Built or Store Brought? (Read 5001 times)

Mentat Jon · « **on:** August 30, 2004, 07:07:42 pm »

A Differnet type of thread from me.

My Compter is some frankinstein montser gone mad, I still have my 3.1 foppy drive from my 486 DX 2, a Pent 3 500, and a 50 speed CD rom drive,*

The old one was a 24 speed, if my computer was a horse? Id shoot it.

Brush Wolf · « **Reply #1 on:** August 30, 2004, 07:24:25 pm »

Hand built, either by yourself or from a local shop that you trust.

J. Carney · « **Reply #2 on:** August 30, 2004, 07:27:54 pm »

Hand built... definately cheaper, cause you don't have to put anything into it that you don't definately need.

kmelew · « **Reply #3 on:** August 30, 2004, 07:36:45 pm »

For the past twelve years or so I've been building my own. That way I decide what goes into it, not what HP, Gateway, Dell et al think I should have. I'm also not locked into propreitary accessories and drives from these manufacturers.

Mentat Jon · « **Reply #4 on:** August 30, 2004, 07:41:16 pm »

so far it looks like hand built is killing store brought, keep it going, I might take a crack at hand crafting HAL 2005

Iceman · « **Reply #5 on:** August 30, 2004, 09:51:42 pm »

Build your own, definitly. Everyone at school that I know has had computer issues this week (first week) EXCEPT for the kids who built their own machines. Odd huh?

E_Look · « **Reply #6 on:** August 30, 2004, 10:17:10 pm »

Dude, make your own. Besides, you can sit and wait for a sale or a special on a component.

jualdeaux · « **Reply #7 on:** August 31, 2004, 09:56:18 am »

I'll have to throw my vote with the build your own group. I built my main computer here 4-5 years ago, it is a lowly P-III 1ghz rig, and have had very little problems with it. It as top of the line when I built it. I wish I had the funds to build a new one but to be honest th myself, the one I have is still just fine for what I use it for.

Sirgod · « **Reply #8 on:** August 31, 2004, 10:08:49 am »

I'd go the home built myself MJ. You can shop around and get exactly what you want most of the time cheaper.

Stephen

Iceman · « **Reply #9 on:** August 31, 2004, 12:47:05 pm »

Here's what I do MJ. First, realize I divide my parts into 2 groups. the 'universal' and the 'particulars'.

The Universal Group included:
Speakers
Monitor
Keyboard/Mouse
Sound Card
LAN card (if necessary)
Fans
Case
CD/DVD Drives etc
Floppy Drive (always ALWAYS have one)
HDD

The "Particulars" Group includes
Processor
Motherboard
Video Card
RAM

Now, I'm sure you've already figured out my reason for the groups but let me elaborate. First, start by picking out the general statistics you want in your Universal group (200gb HDD, etc). Then, wait. Between Best Buy, CompUSA and another other local companies AND Newegg.com, you can save yourself upwards of $300. (not exaggerating at all).

Once you have all (or almost all) of those, pick out your particulars. I save those for last because the universals can interface pretty well with almost any particular, however the particulars must all be on the same page. Buy them all at once if possible. I find newegg.com to have the best overall price point. I say this because they provide the most information for each part. At a place like Best Buy they might have 512 mb of DDR 2700 memory on sale, but you know nothing else about it. Is is a Corsair, or PNY or Kingston? You have no idea, but at Newegg.com you know EXACTLY what you're getting. They even have mobo/processor combos now, very helpful.

So there's my little help desk tutorial. Hope it helped. Now I'm off to class. Later!

Capt. Mike · « **Reply #10 on:** August 31, 2004, 04:33:37 pm »

And don't forget E-bay..my last three MB's (mine, my wife's, and my son's) have all been bought off e-bay...just make sure they're factory sealed (unused) and know what the price is at the local computer shop..and always consider the shipping cost in the price..hate to pay 20 bucks to have it shipped when you only got it 10 buck cheaper..

Me, build it yourself...it's a lot more fun, and you can configure it your way (say, 6 hard drives, 2 dvd burners, etc...maybe a Matrox dual monitor video card (what I put in in the wife's machine..she likes having 2 web pages open at the same time, but on different monitors)

Mike

Javora · « **Reply #11 on:** September 01, 2004, 07:30:31 am »

I think Iceman pretty much nailed it in that last post, and I agree that building the system you want is far better than buying off the shelf or from some major brand. I'm not so sure about the "cheaper" part though, at least not anymore. The real benefit to building your own is that you know exactly what is going into your machine. And the parts that you buy (assuming that you did your homework) will be much higher quality than the junk that the major brands dump into the systems they sell. That usually translates into far fewer problems during the life of your computer. I've owned my home-built system for a year now and I have only had two problems with it (both times were case fan burn-outs). The down side is that you are your own tech support but, but you can find help on-line anywhere (like this place).

The question you want to ask yourself is what are you going to do with your new computer when you build/buy it? Are you going to do hard-core gaming? Is your system just for web-serf and write reports, or something in between? When you figure out what the system is going to be used for then you can get an idea of what you need and how much the system is going to cost. Hope this helps.

Julin Eurthyr · « **Reply #12 on:** September 01, 2004, 07:40:40 am »

I have to agree with what everyone here is saying, with but one caveat...

Home built is always better, and can be done in stepping-stones if you have a decent enough system for now. The only reason I could ever see someone buying a mainstream computer is if they don't know enough about computers, or know someone who's willing to help them...

Iceman · « **Reply #13 on:** September 01, 2004, 10:42:06 am »

AH! Good point. If you don't know how to apply thermal grease for example, don't try. Have someone who knows show you.

Elvis · « **Reply #14 on:** September 01, 2004, 11:41:35 am »

Quote

AH! Good point. If you don't know how to apply thermal grease for example, don't try. Have someone who knows show you.

As if there is something terrifically difficult about applying thermal grease? There are even instructions on Artic Silvers website. http://www.arcticsilver.com/arctic_silver_instructions.htm

Of course you always have to do a lttle investigating and reading. And there are plenty of websites that offer assistance to would be computer builders, like PCMech; which offers alot of help to noobs in there forums. My suggestion would be to start simple in considering the configuration, ie IDE over SATA with no RAID and build up to more complex issues like flashing the bios of your board. But having put together your machine you can tackle flashing the bios. There is enough help online that you shouldn't be fearful of being lost.

Iceman · « **Reply #15 on:** September 02, 2004, 08:28:22 pm »

Its not particularly tricky, but it is probably the most skill-depended portion of building a PC. No amount of directions can show you exactly how much you should put on you know?

Sarek · « **Reply #16 on:** September 19, 2004, 01:10:07 pm »

I'd like to build a PC but the thing that's been stopping me is that I'm clueless as to how to decide what motherboard and chipset to buy other than get whatever is most expensive and hope for the best. Anyone know of any resources (magazines, websites, etc.) with up to date info on their features and explainations of what those features do and which ones I need?

Matsukasi · « **Reply #17 on:** September 19, 2004, 03:22:49 pm »

I don't have the knowledge to build y own, but I bought my dream machine from alienware instead of one of the major computer companies.

Sure, I paid a pretty penny for it, but I'm willing to do that for quality.

Here's what I got:

3 Yr on-site warranty with 24/7 phone tech support
Windows XP Home w/ service pack 2
480 watt power supply
P4 processor w/ HT technology 3.2 GHz
ASUS P4C800-E Deluxe - Intel 875P motherboard
2GB dual channel DDR PC-3200 SDRAM at 400MHz - 4 x 512 MB cards
ATI RADEON X800 PRO 256 MB DDR3 w/ digital and TV out
video cooling system with some fancy pants glowing fans
160 GB Barracuda 7200 RPM w/ 8MB cache hard drive
Lite-On 16xDVD / 52x32x52x CD-RW drive
Plextor PX-712A 12x DVD RW drive
good old fashioned 3.5" 1.44 MB floppy
Sound Blaster Audigy 2 ZS 7.1 high definition surround
Intel Gigabit Ethernet adapter
NEC 22" CRT flat screen
multimedia keyboard
Intellimouse 3.0
Works Suite
buncha other goodies that I picked out instead of having them foisted upon me by the company.

I'm sure some of you could easily build this for half what I paid, but I'm not a member of that group sadly. Besides, the system itself looks like sculpture. Should be at my house in about 2 weeks. I'm as giddy as my wife at a half-price shoe sale.

If you've never heard of the company before, check em out sometime at www.alienware.com

jualdeaux · « **Reply #18 on:** September 19, 2004, 03:25:44 pm »

http://www.tomshardware.com/

Hee is one good reference. You may have to look through it a bit as there is quite a bit of stuff there.

Hale · « **Reply #19 on:** September 19, 2004, 04:05:08 pm »

I'd build your own, that way you can control the quality and the speed of the components you buy. Do some research if you aren't familiar with some of the technologies.

E_Look · « **Reply #20 on:** September 19, 2004, 07:45:27 pm »

My personal opinion is to start with the best CPU chip I can afford.

Then, I'd mate it to a motherboard that both satisfies: whether it will make good use of such a chip and if I can afford the board.

I would then get decent RAM, but I'd settle for no less than 1 Gb, as most often, lack of RAM is a speed bottleneck.

Next comes the video card. I'd recommend not to scrimp here, as this handles your pictures and you want that not to lag. I'm not a serious gamer, so I'd settle for the next best thing to the hottest one around, or even half to one level below next best.

I would also get all the HD I can afford, as most people run out of room much faster than they realize. Many years ago, I thought my 15 Gb IDE HD was the cat's meow. Now it's spit in the ocean... SFC mods and models didn't help... and I'd get either SATA (ATA 150) or ATA 133 all spinning at least 7200 rpm.

As to CDROM, DVDROM, etc., it's all personal needs, including things like maybe a Zip drive or these great new li'l inventions, flash drives.

And very importantly, get a GOOD power supply; at least 400 W from a reputable company, as if it fails, it just might take your mobo and CPU with it, like Khan tried to do to the Kirk gang. Make sure that +12 V rail on the supply is at least 15 A so it's stable.

Monitor? Hard one. Even 19" CRTs are quite affordable, really, but even only 15" LCDs are quite expensive. Suit yourself.

Oh, as for the case, I'd say unless you're a li'l kid and want to wow your buds, get a cheaper metal one with either lots of fans or cutouts for lots of fans. But be sure to put in at the minimum two case fans, three if you can fit them. This is especially if you get these new Athlon 64s from AMD or the newer Intel Pentium 4s. They ALL run hot. Did I mention the heat?

Javora · « **Reply #21 on:** September 20, 2004, 01:09:44 am »

First I'd like to state that this is all IMHO, your views and mileage may vary.

First I would look at your current system and compare it to what you want to do for the next six months. If your system can wait this long than I would hold off building a new system. The computer hardware is in the mist of a major change right now with PCIe, new CPU layout, and DDR2 Ram. Because of this and alleged price fixing amongst the Ram makers. The prices for Ram and other new components are pretty high right now. However if you do not feel you can wait and want a new system now but don?t have the money for the latest components. I would suggest a cheap off the shelf model that will get you buy for about a year while you can save the money and wait for the prices to fall.

However if you feel you can?t wait to buy another system and are not hurting for cash. Then price out some of the latest components to prevent finding yourself with an obsolete system in six months to a year down the road. For starters look at motherboards (like Intel?s 925X or AMD?s socket 939) that uses SATA hard drives, preferably four SATA slots. This will give you at least four IDE hook-ups for CD/DVD drives and an IDE port to transfer your data to your new system. Don't waste your time and money with products that transfers data from your old system to your new system via USB/Parallel cable. It's faster and easier just to rip the hard drive out of the old system and connect it to your new system temporally.

Second look for a processor that is three steps down from the top. This usually gives you the most bang for the buck. The money you save will allow you to buy a more powerful processor down the road and that socket line nears the end of its product life. Also don?t skimp on CPU cooler of thermal paste, both protect your CPU from a meltdown and is probably the most important parts in your system. Back when I built my 478 Intel system the stock CPU cooler had a reputation for cracking CPU?s and motherboards. Now Intel may have fixed this problem since then, however I suggest looking at third party CPU coolers.

As for Ram I would suggest at least 1GB of Ram. Since I already suggested the latest motherboard this will more than likely have people looking at DDR2. But again the cost for DDR2 right now is pretty steep. The same can be said for video cards, since most new motherboards use the PCIe graphics slot. These cards don?t come cheap, look to spend $450~$500USD for a top of the line Nvidia card. And yes ATI has fallen behind and unless the company gets their act together soon will stay that way for a while. As for sound cards I have to recommend the Creative Labs Audigy 2zs gamer card. The card only costs about $100USD and the games that come with the card make it the best value in the computer market at this time. Look for at least a 480~500watt power supply (like Antec truepower), with the kind of parts going into a system these days this type of power is almost a requirement. Antec true power supply has had a good reputation for a while and I haven?t heard any complaints from the people who own them. Speaking of Antec, I would also have to recommend the Antec Sonata computer case. For under a $100USD this is the best case I have ever seen. I would suggest disabling the light on the front of the case, as the light can be distracting.

If you still have money left over buy two SATA hard drives. Don?t bother with P-ATA as the price for both types of hard drives are about the same. Preferably one that is small and fast like the Western Digital 37GB raptor to hold your operating system and maybe an MS Office. The second a large hard drive such as a 160~200gb hard drive for all of your data and other programs. Unless you do a lot of video editing, a Raid 0 disk array is a waste of money. A Raid array doesn?t give gamers any real benefit and can even slow your games down a bit. But don?t take my word for it, here are a couple of articles to read and make your own judgment.

http://anandtech.com/storage/showdoc.aspx?i=2101

http://faq.storagereview.com/SingleDriveVsRaid0

Hope this helps.

E_Look · « **Reply #22 on:** September 20, 2004, 02:08:16 pm »

Excellent advice, but if you use third party coolers and thermal contact paste, don't you invalidate your chip's warranty?

jualdeaux · « **Reply #23 on:** September 20, 2004, 07:43:12 pm »

If you like SFCIII and the Borg, get this case and mod it to look like a Borg Cube.

http://www.tomshardware.com/firstlook/20040907/index.html

Brush Wolf · « **Reply #24 on:** September 20, 2004, 09:47:37 pm »

Quote from: jualdeaux on September 20, 2004, 07:43:12 pm

If you like SFCIII and the Borg, get this case and mod it to look like a Borg Cube.
http://www.tomshardware.com/firstlook/20040907/index.html

Eleven fans! Keep children and small dogs away or they may be sucked in.

Javora · « **Reply #25 on:** September 20, 2004, 10:53:20 pm »

Quote from: E_Look on September 20, 2004, 02:08:16 pm

Excellent advice, but if you use third party coolers and thermal contact paste, don't you invalidate your chip's warranty?

IIRC that would depend on the third party cooler. The one I use does invalidate the motherboard's (but that's only if I tell them what I did

) warranty. But for me it came down to either using the stock cooler and risk damaging the CPU/motherboard or having a working system.

*The knight from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade*

You have chosen... wisely.

*/The knight from Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade*

Mentat Jon · « **Reply #26 on:** September 21, 2004, 07:42:44 pm »

I think im going to start buing peices of " HAl 2005" soon and strech it out, and then take a crack at the hand made computer, im to broke to made a bukl by but a Case here, a CD recorder drive there..

Capt. Mike · « **Reply #27 on:** September 21, 2004, 08:19:34 pm »

MJ. if you need some stuff..I got a CD burner, an extra IDE card, a 64 meg video card, some other stuff..PM me, shipping is the only cost...it can get you started...the fun part comes when you upgrade the stuff, and you have to reconfigure..then you get Marvin, the Paranoid Android

Mike

E_Look · « **Reply #28 on:** September 21, 2004, 09:13:26 pm »

Hee hee hee...

... MJ and Capt. Mike, my family has begun to call my son's computer "The Borg Cube" because it's encased in a $28 green Raidmax case, the one with the plexiglass side panel and no (throwaway) power supply. I stuck two green LED lit fans on that side panel, and the motherboard has two built-in little red LEDs, and along with the two de rigueur LEDs on the front of the case (green and red), so when it's powered on, and the room lights are off with only the monitor glowing in addition, it kind of does have that outer-spacey kind of spookiness... not Alien, but Borg.

(He's got a Polar Lights K_D7 model and a Playmates (?) small K-BOP sitting on top of it. They probably got assimilated... )

See, Jon? This is the kind of goofy fun you can have. And, I took a little time to get the pieces I either wanted or didn't mind having, waiting for sales, rebates, coupons, and specials.

Holocat · « **Reply #29 on:** September 23, 2004, 11:15:59 pm »

Around my area store-bought is no longer cheaper than hand built. Latest computer here is a Dell, only a few months running the thing but no real problems as of yet. One before that was a hand-built.

Yeah, yeah, everyone likes to rag on those stories of the Terror of the Deep from friends of friends that got a HP or Dell or something that did nothing but make fun of them, but my current computer seems to be working well enough.

I suppose for me the bottom line, for me, is the cost. Given how fast computer hardware increases in performace these days, it dosen't really pay off to get a top-of-the-line-for-that-very-day computer these days. Better deals are to be had on the secondary computers, and work just as well. Unless you play a lot of first-person shooters, anyway.

Iceman · « **Reply #30 on:** September 24, 2004, 07:20:23 am »

In a way Holo you're right. I'll never buy the 'top-end' video card, I get the second tier cards. For example i have a Radeon 9600XT as opposed to the infinitely more expensive (at the time) 9800XT.

Also, when someone talks about building their own system being cheaper, they mean that if Dell put in the same quality parts that a given PC builder used, you'd pay through the nose for it. Alienware and Falcon Northwest are good examples. Excellent, excellent machines, but man they're expensive. The machine I have now doesn't slow down for anything, not even Doom3. Yeah, its slick as...well you know.

Soyo KT-600 Dragon Ultra Platinum MOBO
AMD XP2800+ Barton (not-overclocked)
512MB Corsair XMS DDR Ram.
Sapphire Atlantis ATi Radeon 9600XT 256
Generic NEC DVD/CD Writer/Reader
Seagate Barracude 80gb HDD (7200rpm)

I think that about covers the main portions of the system. Now i paid <$1500 for everything including a $400 LCD Monitor. Beat that at Alienware and you win the prize of the day. (Prize of the day TBD!)

likkerpig · « **Reply #31 on:** September 24, 2004, 11:49:41 am »

Hey iceman a question for you.
What core speed is your barton running?
I just built a rig with the same cpu and mine is running at 1.66MHz, the documentation says it should be 2.048MHz (I think).
I have to wait a week to run any more tests, I had to borrow a monitor to find out what info I have. I'm wondering if the multiplier is set too low, if so is it changable in the bios?
Any info is appreciated.

Iceman · « **Reply #32 on:** September 24, 2004, 01:00:37 pm »

I've got 2.08ghz here.
Download GPUID (I think anyways) and run that. You should be able to set your multiplier through that.

On a side note, is it at all possible you got a "Cool a quiet" model? If so, they scale the power dynamically, meaning that surfing the net you might only use 800mhz power but playing Doom 3 you might use it all. My laptop uses it.

likkerpig · « **Reply #33 on:** September 24, 2004, 02:17:47 pm »

Quote from: Iceman on September 24, 2004, 01:00:37 pm

I've got 2.08ghz here.
Download GPUID (I think anyways) and run that. You should be able to set your multiplier through that.

On a side note, is it at all possible you got a "Cool a quiet" model? If so, they scale the power dynamically, meaning that surfing the net you might only use 800mhz power but playing Doom 3 you might use it all. My laptop uses it.

Nothing on the documentation about cool and quiet, of course with the case fans going I couldn't tell anyway...

Thanks for the info, I'll check it out.

E_Look · « **Reply #34 on:** September 24, 2004, 03:02:56 pm »

Well, as he said, if it's Cool'n'Quiet enabled, the clock speed of the CPU is changed depending on whether a faster rate is needed for what is doing at the moment. If it is so, you might be able to tell because there's usually a utility included with the motherboard that can track that kind of thing along with the chip and system temperature.

Iceman · « **Reply #35 on:** September 24, 2004, 05:10:45 pm »

You could also just check your bios, and see what the multiplier is.

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Topic: Hand Built or Store Brought? (Read 5001 times) var addthis_config = {"data_track_clickback":true};

Topic: Hand Built or Store Brought? (Read 5001 times)