Topic: IMPORTANT GENERAL WAR NEWS - - - Please Read

[KAT J'inn]

TYRANNICAL DECREE!!!

NOT OPEN FOR DEBATE!!!


1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

2)   You can always "rot fur" in order to give a hex to an ally.   I don't like placing ally bases in other ally hexes on the map.  I like the strategic value of letting the players decide where to do this.   That is why I like it this way.    For GW 4 and GW 6 life will be impossible for the Coalition unless they can do this.   Anyone who says this is cheating is incorrect.

3)   I won't change anything that has passed due to anything noted here.   

4)   I expect the RMs to avoid trash talking and being overly aggressive.   The main duty of RM is to help work out problems, not cause them.   The RM is not necessarily the head cheerleader for his side.

5) Trash talking in general . . .   If you are doing it with someone who you know can take it, it's cool.  But don't purposely try to upset people.   It's childish.

6) Sportsmanship   . . .  Come on guys. 

SHEESH!!

[SPQRPardek]

 2.i have never been part of a team that on purpose lost missions to lower the DV of a planet or base, so that a allied race could have it. i have seen many times a race lower the DV of a planet or base till netrual then a allied race run one mission on it to flip it. but then again if its not in the rules for this campaign then there was no foul.
6. sportsmanship has been top notch.
1. lol why didnt i think about that.
4. RM/ARM's are people, cut em some slack.
3 .no comment
5. i agree

[FireSoul]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

[el-Karnak]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

I am pretty open on the issue. It's up the players what they want regarding tractorable rocks.  If a majority likes the N-AST thingie then I won't change any code and it's up to the Server Admin. to configure the N-AST shiplist item anyway they like them.  I'm guessing if they match the size class of N-AST with a planet like any one of PL0 thru PL17 that it will become untractorable.  If true then that's your tractor/non-tractor toggle.

[KAT J'inn]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

Yeah I kinda like it to.  But let's let it seep in first.

Playing Whack-A-J'inn with a Rock will always be an illegal maneuver however.

Bastiches.

[FireSoul]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

I am pretty open on the issue. It's up the players what they want regarding tractorable rocks.  If a majority likes the N-AST thingie then I won't change any code and it's up to the Server Admin. to configure the N-AST shiplist item anyway they like them.  I'm guessing if they match the size class of N-AST with a planet like any one of PL0 thru PL17 that it will become untractorable.  If true then that's your tractor/non-tractor toggle.

Is it possible to optionally set it as a targettable item?

[Kroma BaSyl]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

Yeah I kinda like it to.  But let's let it seep in first.

Playing Whack-A-J'inn with a Rock will always be an illegal maneuver however.

Bastiches.

So do you want me to nerf all the N-ASTs? <snicker>

[KBF-WillWeasel]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

Yeah I kinda like it to.  But let's let it seep in first.

Playing Whack-A-J'inn with a Rock will always be an illegal maneuver however.

Bastiches.

So do you want me to nerf all the N-ASTs? <snicker>

Kroma I'm sure yer the most qualified 

[Dizzy]

Playing Whack-A-J'inn with a Rock will always be an illegal maneuver however.

Bastiches.

I happen to hold the sole honor of this achievement.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

J'inn:


1.  Sounds fine to me...though I'm with you...I think it's kind of an interesting feature...and I applaud the ingenuity of the first person who tried it.  It would never have occured to me to do it...heheh.


2.   Cool...I totally support this idea as well.  Ally's should be able to fully support each other in this way.  Anything else just doesn't make much sense to me.


3.  Also good.  We don't need another Clinton-esque retroactive tax increase type thang.  What's in the past is in the past.


4.  Agreed again.  RMs are people too, but they need to be more restrained in public.  They are in the role to help the admins and the players...not create nasty situations.  Maybe it takes a special kind of person...and some people just should do it.  Just as some people might have trouble fulfilling the admin role.


5.  Good advice.  I tend to steer clear of it alltogether.  Sometimes it's funny, but to me, it's just not worth taking the chance that you're going to pisss someone off.  It's just not...


6.  Like others have said, I think sportsmanship has been the rule rather than the exception. It's just that when there's a lack of sportsmanship it gets nasty and public and draws a lot of attention.  It's a damned shame, really.  I don't personally know what drives people to get the way they do while playing this game.  Heck, I like to win..and I work hard towards winning, but I don't need to win and I don't feel the need to have my ego fed or boosted by playing a game.  I don't know what driver people to accuse others of being cheesers while they themselves drive a cheese ship and don't see anything wrong with it.  It's wacky.  I guess they are just looking to demean others and make excuses for their inability to win or something.  I don't know.  It's trite and old fashioned, but I was taught to give people the benefit of the doubt, to not purposefully attempt to make people look bad in public and to keep my mouth shut if I didn't have anything nice to say about someone.  It's not just sportsmanship, it's "manners."  I'm certain that if a few of the usual suspects acted in RL the way they do around here, they'd be getting fiired or decked a lot.



Again, J'inn....thanks for all you've done.

[madelf]

Erm, I tractored a rock into a couple AI in a mission, made my wingmen bust up laughing. Was that illegal?  Or is it just vs players?

[Kroma BaSyl]

I guess they are just looking to demean others and make excuses for their inability to win or something. 

Or win gracefully.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

I guess they are just looking to demean others and make excuses for their inability to win or something. 

Or win gracefully.

That is also a problem (to a lesser extent, in my view...but it is there).

[The_Joker]

The only problem I see with the tractorable rock thing is I wonder if a player could avoid running into the damn thing by targeting it quickly......

Think about it, you're buzzing around at high speed when you realize you're too close to a rock.  Instead of having to do an emergency stop in order to avoid a collision, you've just got to have a level one tractor up and target the rock.  You don't have to slow down due to your own stupidity.  Your enemy also doesn't get to take advantage of your stupidity.  I'd think that if you do something stupid you deserve to either run into it or have to e-stop putting you at the mercy of your enemy.

[Kroma BaSyl]

I guess they are just looking to demean others and make excuses for their inability to win or something. 

Or win gracefully.

That is also a problem (to a lesser extent, in my view...but it is there).

That's just it dog, it isn't to a lesser or greater extent, but peeps always seem to think it is coming from the other side. I have played for both the coalition and alliance so far during the GW series and am pretty split in general over the years as to which side I have been on. And the folks from both sides are pretty much the same. Each side is largely made up of great guys that just like to play and have fun, but there always seems to be a general lack of understanding as to the other sides perspective. Which is why I made the counter point as to your implication that it was whining and poor sportsmanship on the losing (and therefore Alliance) side that was at issue. I wasn't even sure you were conscious of the implied bias in your post until this one, and I don't hold it against you as it is only natural to identify and sympathize with the folks you spend more time playing with.

I consider you one of the more level head and open-minded statesman in the game, so when I see you make a post that is apparently a non-partisan call for mutual understanding, I am somewhat taken back to see it contain a partisan slight or dig at the other side (consciously or not). It seems to reinforce the general sense of distrust and overly competitive spirit that has griped many players from both sides of the fence. It is just a bit depressing to see those types of sentiments being expressed by those that I consider to be the most open-minded and reasonable among us, as it doesn't bode well for the sentiments and negative feelings probably being held by the rest. Which is a real shame considering we are all pretty much the same on both sides. It just seems we are unable to empathize with anyone but our fellow teammates, which continually leads to hard feelings and pointless misunderstandings as to the other guys intents and motives.  Maybe it is just that having never been part of the Fed/Klingon rift  plus being a bit of a race whore has allowed me to gain a different perspective, but I am constantly amazed by the general lack of trust and immediate assumption that the other side is up to no good that emanates from both sides. Which is so ironic considering they are both made up of pretty much the same types of individuals, both good and bad but largely good natured and affable. It is a shame that more folks don't mix it up and get to know the guys and gals they have been playing this game with and against for years.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

[Soreyes]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again

Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

[WarSears]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

Like I said, miscommunication and lack of understanding. I will repeat the Coalition players are as much fun as the Alliance players. They both also have their less than stellar momments. But to be honest I have never seen a clear difference in general attidude from either side, they each just attribute the worst in each other sometimes when the competition gets tight.

[KAT J'inn]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

I don't think that is what Soreyes meant Warsears.  I think he siomply means that it is good for morale to mix up the alliances every now and then so the sides don't get too isolated from each other over time.

[Soreyes]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

Ummmmm  Hmmmmmm  Well I see my small attempt at a little bit of humor went over like a Led Zepplen 

[el-Karnak]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

Ummmmm  Hmmmmmm  Well I see my small attempt at a little bit of humor went over like a Led Zepplen 

'tis better to try, than never to try at all, I guess.  I gave you +karma for trying.

[_SSCF_Hooch]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

ANNNNND, it make a great rear shield too. 

[Strafer]

1)    Tractoring the Karnak Rocks is a NO NO!!  While I agree with Dizzy that it is kinda cool.  It was an unintended "feature" in the mission per Karnak.   Therefore, I don't want to suddenly toss it in since people really never had time to absorb and consider it's impact <pun intended>.    Maybe this rule will be reversed for later servers after people have had time to play with the feature in a non competitive environment.

That's too bad. I kinda liked the idea of being able to do that..
.. there's precedence in SFB, too.

ANNNNND, it make a great rear shield too. 

Specially if there's a black hole nearby you can stretch the tractor beam with. Wailing around a rock at range 30 with rotation is cool. BIG [CENSORED] MORNINGSTAR!!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

Specially if there's a black hole nearby you can stretch the tractor beam with. Wailing around a rock at range 30 with rotation is cool. BIG [CENSORED] MORNINGSTAR!!

 

[GDA-Agave]

Tractoring rocks!!   Mucho cool.    Just think of the fun that could be had.

I would just ask that any mission in asteriod hexes would automatically draft J'inn no matter where he is so that he can......<what's the best word here>...........

ENJOY...the experience.

ME GORN WIELD BIG ROCK!!!   Now, why does that sounds familiar?

Kudos to WW for trying something new, and simultaneously openiong up a WHOLE NEW can of worms/whoopass.

Now, where's Maverick when you need him?


Agave
Bastard-in-training
I even know the themesong (remember the old Mickey Mouse club)

BAS, S because he sucks
TAR, R because he's a Royal Pain
DNAIL

Bastard Nail, <no chuutritt>
Bastard Nail, <no chuutritt>

We love to see their escape pods floating bye.........bye, bye now

<runs away laughing hysterically>

[el-Karnak]

Tractoring rocks!!   Mucho cool.    Just think of the fun that could be had.

I would just ask that any mission in asteriod hexes would automatically draft J'inn no matter where he is so that he can......<what's the best word here>...........

ENJOY...the experience.

ME GORN WIELD BIG ROCK!!!   Now, why does that sounds familiar?

Kudos to WW for trying something new, and simultaneously openiong up a WHOLE NEW can of worms/whoopass.

You can only tractor rocks in EEK missions. Am still ambivalent on whether it's worth all the trouble.  EEK features like tractorble rocks were never meant to cause massive flame-wars. If I knew that the N-AST could be tractored, we were rushed for time in testing, then I would have taken them out, to avoid controversies like WW-DH one, and no one would be the wiser.

There are actually a lot of neat tricks, under wraps, that can be done with the scripts that have not seen the light of dyna-day. My favorite is the tactical warp where you can use a toggle to have your ship zip around at obscene speeds like 500+.  Or, taking a target ship and putting them at a desired speed, for example zero, for as long as you like. These 2 features had been silently deployed on Bonk's SFBOP dyna when it was up. However, everytime something comes up for general usage consideration, SGODEV, I do for sure, take a lot of thought in considering the flamewar factor.

I pushed random map terrain features, without any advanced notice PR fanfare, as a trial baloon to see how it would be assimiliated by the playerbase. Same thing was done with MagnumMan's shiplist API in ES Patrol.

[KAT J'inn]

BAS, S because he sucks
TAR, R because he's a Royal Pain
DNAIL

Bastard Nail, <no chuutritt>
Bastard Nail, <no chuutritt>

We love to see their escape pods floating bye.........bye, bye now

 

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

I guess they are just looking to demean others and make excuses for their inability to win or something. 

Or win gracefully.

That is also a problem (to a lesser extent, in my view...but it is there).

That's just it dog, it isn't to a lesser or greater extent, but peeps always seem to think it is coming from the other side. I have played for both the coalition and alliance so far during the GW series and am pretty split in general over the years as to which side I have been on. And the folks from both sides are pretty much the same. Each side is largely made up of great guys that just like to play and have fun, but there always seems to be a general lack of understanding as to the other sides perspective. Which is why I made the counter point as to your implication that it was whining and poor sportsmanship on the losing (and therefore Alliance) side that was at issue. I wasn't even sure you were conscious of the implied bias in your post until this one, and I don't hold it against you as it is only natural to identify and sympathize with the folks you spend more time playing with.

I consider you one of the more level head and open-minded statesman in the game, so when I see you make a post that is apparently a non-partisan call for mutual understanding, I am somewhat taken back to see it contain a partisan slight or dig at the other side (consciously or not). It seems to reinforce the general sense of distrust and overly competitive spirit that has griped many players from both sides of the fence. It is just a bit depressing to see those types of sentiments being expressed by those that I consider to be the most open-minded and reasonable among us, as it doesn't bode well for the sentiments and negative feelings probably being held by the rest. Which is a real shame considering we are all pretty much the same on both sides. It just seems we are unable to empathize with anyone but our fellow teammates, which continually leads to hard feelings and pointless misunderstandings as to the other guys intents and motives.  Maybe it is just that having never been part of the Fed/Klingon rift  plus being a bit of a race whore has allowed me to gain a different perspective, but I am constantly amazed by the general lack of trust and immediate assumption that the other side is up to no good that emanates from both sides. Which is so ironic considering they are both made up of pretty much the same types of individuals, both good and bad but largely good natured and affable. It is a shame that more folks don't mix it up and get to know the guys and gals they have been playing this game with and against for years.

Heh...I think I haven't made myself clear.  You'll be happy to know that you have misread my point completely.  I show no and mean no bias at all.  I was mainly talking about PvP sportsmanship, Kroma.  The BS comments  people make in those things...whining about what other people are flying and stuff...that's what bugs me.


I'm not pointing fingers at either side when it comes to that.  I've been around here long enough..flown a number of races....on either side of "the fence" in major campaigns.  I think I have a pretty good idea of what the people who play this game are like because I've flown with and against them all.  I know that each side has it's good guys and bad guys.  I know that no race or team has the market cornered on good sports or bad sports.


I can't speak for everyone, but I'm very empathetic about the plight of others in this game.  I think that's mainly because I've been in just about every position imaginable during the past four years or so.  I've been on teams that have been severely outnumbered and outgunned.  I've been on teams that enjoyed significant advantages in both.  I've been somewhere between.  There once was a time when I was considered one of the better PvP players and now I think I'm basically average.  I have my brilliant games and my totally underwhelming games.  I just fly so little PvP these days because of family constraints that I'm out of practice. 

I don't know about anyone else, but I have never liked a route that I didn't earn.  It takes the fun out of it for me.  I can OFTEN be found switching sides in campaigns with player balance problems.  I have a VERY long history of doing this.  I do it quietly, most of the time...usually letting only a few know that I've done so.  I do this out of empathy for the disadvantaged side.  I take zero joy in beating a team that either can't or won't show up.


I've been on record several times in the past as saying there isn't much wrong with this game that can't be fixed by ensuring the teams are even or handicapping the scoring to compensate for any issues regarding player number balance or mission number (and speed) balance.


Even on GW3 when the Alliance was outnumbered a few times when I was on, I 'm make a comment in general chat empathizing with the Alliance or I even curtail my own playing time just so I'm not adding to the problem.  Now, for whatever reason, the pendulum has swung WAY the other way and every time I log in now, the Alliance enjoys a signficant majority, morning, noon and night.  Two lunchtimes in a row, I've been the only Coalition player on.  Last week during the same time, it was usually 50/50.  How do you guys feel?  Making any changes?  Talking about switching sides?  Trajan told me that when he logged in last night (not sure what time) it was him and Kurok vs. a larger number of Alliiance pilots.


This in itself wouldn't be so bad if folks hadn't made a huge, public issue out the first half of GW3 and just let it run its course.  The problem probably would have righted itself and we'd have had a barn-burner of a 2nd week.  As it is, one side has gotten more players, but the other side is quitting in droves because of the bad feelings generated by some of the recent public posts and other server drama.



I tell ya....this game (D2) is almost unplayable.  I still love playing it but so much junk happens during every campaign that it just kills the fun.  I can already tell how the balance of GW3 is gonna go.  It almost can't get over quick enough.



So yeah...I do feel the same way you do regarding the big picture...no worries there.  You can't say I don't empathize with the other side, man...I didn't spend a significant amount of time, effort and money to get a Fed player the materials to play on GW3 because I don't care. 



Let me know the first time you see me crow about any kind of victory.   I'm the kind of guy that gets embarrassed a bit by victories and compliments.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

Yup with you there Kroma, guess we are lucky we don't normally fly as the major powers, getting to be on both sides does give lots of perspective. 

You said it all there Chuut. I think the Kzin need to be allied with the Klinks once again. I think they may need a refresher course on how to have fun on the voice comms again


Have to admit I have been having fun this week.

Once again you guy try to blame all the bull sh*t in the game on the Klingons
Why dint you find out the hole story before posting BS like that Soreyes If you want to know my side come over to Ventrilo one night and ill fill you in.

I don't think that is what Soreyes meant Warsears.  I think he siomply means that it is good for morale to mix up the alliances every now and then so the sides don't get too isolated from each other over time.

Always a good idea and I've always supported it.  I know there are certain players who will "never fly with a Fed' and probably other players who will "never fly with a Klingon" but over all, I think it helps to mix things up and I think most people enjoy the opportunities presented by flying with different allies.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Thanks for clarifying that doggy. You are right, I completely misunderstood what you meant. I read it as you commenting on the current campaign progress and meaning that you felt the side that wasn't winning (Allaince) was the one doing most of the complaining

Guess I am not immune to the misunderstanding and miscommunication.

As a side note, last night was one of the funnest nights so far on the server and the majority of the credit goes to the Coalition pilots that I ran into in PvPs and yuking it up in springer chat. That is exactly the kind of dyna I want, one were a bunch of friends get together and blow the crap out of each others ships. To bad we have to keep score. ;-)

Kroma,

PS, Yeah that's right Dizzy, I did that to your ship because I love you man. <snicker>