Topic: Tanks of WWII Part one: Pzkw V Panther

[Chris SI]

As promised, the beginning of another series, this one on armor.

German answer to the T34

The Germans received a psychological as well as a military shock when Russian T 34 tanks, confronting the 4th Panzer Division near Mzensk in October 1941, outclassed their own prize piece of armour, the PzKpfw IV. As a result, General Guderian, to whose II Panzer Army the bruised 4th Division belonged, requested an immediate reassessment of German tank design. With intact specimens of captured T 34s as a guide, the Germans issued a specification for a 35-ton tank carrying a high velocity 75-mm gun and featuring frontal armour of 60-mm. In weight and armour, the new tank was planned at twice the size of the PzKpfw IV which was about to be eclipsed by this, the best German tank of the war: the PzKpfw Panther V.

The Panther featured a near ideal marriage of armor, weight, firepower and speed, and was given its name by specific order of the Fuehrer, on 22nd February 1943. Production began in November 1942, and within six months 324 Panthers were in service. By the end of the war, 4,814 had been built.

Hitler's evident fondness for the Panther - he loved all weapons of crushing blitzkrieg promise - was no initial advantage. Through his insistence; Panthers made a premature debut at the battle of Kursk in July 1943 and made a singularly inauspicious start to what later became an impressive career. At the time of Kursk, the Panthers were still insufficiently developed and were plagued by problems: one was their great weight ? now 44 tons ? which was causing rim-bolt failure. Breakdowns were so frequent that only 40 Panthers were still in action after the first day's fighting at Kursk.

The experience prompted modifications, first in the Ausfuhrung A (1943/4), then in 1944 in the Model G. Model G was the Panther which earned the deadly reputation in defence during the battles of Normandy, where their 3,068 fps (932 mps) guns were able to penetrate more than 120-mm of 30° plate at 1,000 yards (914 metres).

Specification:
Weight: 44.8 tons (45.4 tonnes)
Crew: 5
Armament: one 75-mm KwK 42 L/70 gun, two 7.92-mm MG 34 machine-guns
Max armour: 4.7 inches !120mm!
Engine: one Maybach HL230 P30 V-12 engine, 690 hp
Speed: 34 mph 155 kph)
Range: 1 10 miles (177 kms).

[S'Raek]

Sweet!  Thanks for the post. 

[Chris SI]

I have been getting ready to transcribe more of these (They are on paper, and my scanner is broken yet again) but the typing takes a bit of time.

I'll keep adding more when I can.

[S'Raek]

Was the Panther the one that they had all the problems with?  I remember talk of one of them not having the proper machine guns and other problems like that.  Or was that the Tiger? 

[Chris SI]

Both of them, actually.

German engineers loved to make things overly complex, which made mass production and matenance difficult.

For examply, to replace damaged bogie wheels, you had to revove the ones in front of the damaged once, sometimes as many five to get at one. Gear drives often broke, on Tigers, you had to remove part of the front of the tank to get at the gear boxes, ect.

Both the Russians and Americans favored easily maintained and relaible armor, their tanks ALWAYS worked, German tanks broke down ofetn.

[J. Carney]

Both of them, actually.

German engineers loved to make things overly complex, which made mass production and matenance difficult.

For examply, to replace damaged bogie wheels, you had to revove the ones in front of the damaged once, sometimes as many five to get at one. Gear drives often broke, on Tigers, you had to remove part of the front of the tank to get at the gear boxes, ect.

Both the Russians and Americans favored easily maintained and relaible armor, their tanks ALWAYS worked, German tanks broke down ofetn.

It was a boon to the Allies (and probably all that made them able to beat the German tanks) that the Tiger and King Tiger broke down so often. They could have given the M60's a run for their money in both weight and stopping power.

Remember, the heaviest of the Tigers went about 60 tons- as heavy as the early M1's.

[Just plain old Punisher]

The stock Sherman didn't have a chance of penetrating the Tigers frontal armour. Not until the Brits slapped a 16 pounder on a Sherman chassis did they stand a chance against the tigers. Of course, only a couple hundred Tiger II's were ever made...compared to the 15,000 Sherman tanks

[J. Carney]

The stock Sherman didn't have a chance of penetrating the Tigers frontal armour. Not until the Brits slapped a 16 pounder on a Sherman chassis did they stand a chance against the tigers. Of course, only a couple hundred Tiger II's were ever made...compared to the 15,000 Sherman tanks

Yeah, german tankers said that they could kill 9 American tanks for every 1 German tank lost... but there was always a 10th American tank.

[Just plain old Punisher]

Some of the Shermans had Petrol engines, which had an unfortunate tendency to catch fire when hit. Germans called em Tommy Cookers.

[J. Carney]

Some of the Shermans had Petrol engines, which had an unfortunate tendency to catch fire when hit. Germans called em Tommy Cookers.

Pops says that the tankers called 'em 'Ronsons' or 'Zippos' if they were gas-powered...

'cause "they always lit on the first strike."

[Chris SI]

The stock Sherman didn't have a chance of penetrating the Tigers frontal armour. Not until the Brits slapped a 16 pounder on a Sherman chassis did they stand a chance against the tigers. Of course, only a couple hundred Tiger II's were ever made...compared to the 15,000 Sherman tanks

17 Pounder actually, and the US introduced a Sherman with a 76mm AT gun also.

The Sherman will get its chance, its in the series.

[Just plain old Punisher]

The US 76mm gun wasn't the same as the Brittish 17pdr. The muzzle velocity for the Brittish weapon was much higher.

[Chris SI]

That is true, but it at least existed.

I haven't delved deep into this becuase its planned for an upcoming article.

The US didn't plan or use its tanks in duels, they wern't designed for it and it wasn't US doctrone, so tank vs tank vis a vis the US and the Nazis doesn't make a lot of sense. The US believed in the tank destroyer concept, for good or ill, and followed it, but in France in 44 till the end of the war, airpower and arty scored most US armor kills.

[IndyShark]

The stock Sherman didn't have a chance of penetrating the Tigers frontal armour. Not until the Brits slapped a 16 pounder on a Sherman chassis did they stand a chance against the tigers. Of course, only a couple hundred Tiger II's were ever made...compared to the 15,000 Sherman tanks

Punisher, almost 50,000 Sherman tanks were made during WWII.

[likkerpig]

The US 76mm gun wasn't the same as the Brittish 17pdr. The muzzle velocity for the Brittish weapon was much higher.

Both these weapons actually had trouble with the panther and tiger front armor.  This mostly had to do with the quality of the rounds, the 76mm APCBC decreased in hardness from front to back which could lead to mushrooming, decreasing penetration. The 17 pdr APCBC round was very inaccurate, yawing when it left the barrel. The panther had weak points though, a shot trap created by the gun mantlet and the machine gun ball mount on the glacis. As stated above, allied air power and artillery played a big role in killing panthers. As well the Sherman had a basic version of gun stabilization which allowed more accurate fire on the move (when it worked).

[RazalYllib]

Many years ago, I had the opportunity to visit the Panzer Museum in Northern Germany (pre-reunificiation) and got to get up close and personal w/ many interesting Armored Vehicles.  So if any of you find yourself in N. Germany...it is worth checking out.