Topic: Ships of WWII Part Six: Dunkerque and Strasbourg

[Chris SI]

French battleships

While the major powers were barred from capital ship construction after the Washington Treaty, France, as one of the lesser naval powers, was permitted two ships in the late-Twenties. Initially the French proposed a super-cruiser of 17,320 tons with eight 240-mm guns, a speed of 34 knots and armour sufficient to resist 203-mm shells.

The development of the German pocket battleships resulted in an entirely recast design in 1931. On dimensions of 703.74 Feet x 111.5 feet x 28.75 Feet and with a full-load displacement of 35,000 tons, the Strasbourg and Dunkerque had a speed of 30 knots, an armament of eight 12 inch, sixteen 5 inch dual-purpose and eight 37-mm AA guns. They carried an armour belt up to 245 mm, turrets up to 330 mm and deck protection of 126mm. They also carried four aircraft. Thus, with the British battle cruisers, they were the only ships that could outrun and out-shoot the pocket battleships.

Though designed to meet the German challenge their design closely followed the British 'Nelson'-class. The ships incorporated a massive central tower bridge and carried their main armament forward in two quadrupled turrets, though these were spaced sufficiently far apart to avoid a single hit incapacitating both turrets. But the ships incorporated certain weaknesses. Endurance was limited and the secondary armament was poorly arranged. Theoretically the 130-mm guns had a dual-purpose role but their mountings were ill designed and poorly located. The main AA protection should have been amidships, not at the stern, while the low angle guns (these guns had different ammunition) should have been astern. Nevertheless the ships matched their Italian and German counterparts.

Both ships fared ill during the war. The Strasbourg hunted the Graf Spee unsuccessfully in 1939 but both were caught by the British at Oran in 1940. The Dunkerque was heavily damaged by the Hood and air attack, but the Strasbourg was able to escape and make for Toulon where she was later joined by her repaired sister ship. Both were scuttled in November 1942 to avoid capture by the Germans. The Italians refloated the Strasbourg but she was destroyed in 1944 by Allied bombing.

[RogueJedi_XC]

...The Dunkerque was heavily damaged by the Hood and air attack, but the Strasbourg was able to escape...

Interesting. These French ships were attacked by the British. I thought Britain and France were allies leading up to WWII? Was it a mistaken ID by the Hood, or was it ever explained at all?

[kmelew]

...The Dunkerque was heavily damaged by the Hood and air attack, but the Strasbourg was able to escape...

Interesting. These French ships were attacked by the British. I thought Britain and France were allies leading up to WWII? Was it a mistaken ID by the Hood, or was it ever explained at all?

This was done in an attempt to prevent the Vichy forces taking over the ships and handing them over to the Germans.

During the North Africa landings, USS Massachusetts fired upon the incomplete French battleship Jean Bart.

[Chris SI]

...The Dunkerque was heavily damaged by the Hood and air attack, but the Strasbourg was able to escape...

Interesting. These French ships were attacked by the British. I thought Britain and France were allies leading up to WWII? Was it a mistaken ID by the Hood, or was it ever explained at all?

I should explain about that.

When France was beaten in 1940, it promised Britain that the French Navy would never fall into Hitler's hands. Hitler had agreed to leave the fleet alone, but Churchill didn't trust Hitler, so he submitted orders to neutralize the French Navy.

The French were told they had the following choices, depending on where they were:
Demilitarize in place (have oil, and ammo removed from the ships, under British supervision.)
Sail to the French West Indies in the Americas, where no oil was available, and was far from Germany.
Join the Free French Navy.

If these terms were rejected, the British would neutralize the French themselves. Many French ships accepted the terms, in Alexandria, and Dakar, for example. But the French at Oran, their main fleet base in North Africa, did not.

Admiral Somerville, CinC of force H' opened fire when the French rejected the terms, and the deadline passed. Thousands of French sailors were killed, a number of ships sunk of heavily damaged, including Dunkerque.

The French held this incident against the British for the rest of the war, and preferred to co-operate with the USA over Britain, which is why Free French armed units had US equipment. Germany had a field day with propaganda over this attack, and the Vichy government gained greatly in popularity. It was a major political blunder by Churchill, bit the threat of French seapower in German hands was grave, so Churchill did it anyway.

[Just plain old Punisher]

It would have been a disaster if the Germans got those ships. It would have more than doubled the German capital ship fleet.

[Chris SI]

Which is why Churchill did what he did.

Sometimes you have to do really crappy things in war, to insure survival.

[RogueJedi_XC]

I should explain about that.

When France was beaten in 1940, it promised Britain that the French Navy would never fall into Hitler's hands. Hitler had agreed to leave the fleet alone, but Churchill didn't trust Hitler, so he submitted orders to neutralize the French Navy.

The French were told they had the following choices, depending on where they were:
Demilitarize in place (have oil, and ammo removed from the ships, under British supervision.)
Sail to the French West Indies in the Americas, where no oil was available, and was far from Germany.
Join the Free French Navy.

If these terms were rejected, the British would neutralize the French themselves. Many French ships accepted the terms, in Alexandria, and Dakar, for example. But the French at Oran, their main fleet base in North Africa, did not.

Admiral Somerville, CinC of force H' opened fire when the French rejected the terms, and the deadline passed. Thousands of French sailors were killed, a number of ships sunk of heavily damaged, including Dunkerque.

The French held this incident against the British for the rest of the war, and preferred to co-operate with the USA over Britain, which is why Free French armed units had US equipment. Germany had a field day with propaganda over this attack, and the Vichy government gained greatly in popularity. It was a major political blunder by Churchill, bit the threat of French seapower in German hands was grave, so Churchill did it anyway.

Ok, I understand now. Clearly, any promise by Hitler to keep his hands off powerful military machinery was bogus and could not be trusted. The puppet Vichy government couldn't be trusted, either. So, the decision makes sense on a strategic level. That one must have cost many sleepless nights...

[Chris SI]

The Nazis used it very effectivly in propaganda.

When the allies landed in North Africa in 1942, The French fought the British, and surrendered to the Americans.