Topic: D2 on its last legs for me

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

I can't imagine anyone is going to mistake the Z-BF for cheese.

You know what is funny, some people racked up a bunch of kills in that POS on GW1.

IMHO, all fast cruisers are "cheese" because they totally screw the dynanics involved in seeking-weapon combat.  Granted I feel no guilt in other "cheese" specialty ships being out-classed, but at the same time you have to recognized that races who's line ships depend on seeking weapons (Plasma races, Mirak Line Ships) kinda get F'd when ships with a move cost of 1 and 42-48 power come out before 2270.

SFB has fast cruisers restricted to a production rate of 1 per year and they cost  10 EP to build, same cost as an F-BCF or K-C7.

Yes..I recall that the Z-BF did make a comeback after early disappointment with it.  I think I just meant that of the fast cruisers, it probably wouldn't be considered the best.  I think people have shown consistantly that most ships can win if piloted well and any ship can be beaten, if piloted poorly.


I see your point on the dynamics of the game and I think you're right, the dynamics can be screwed up is fast cruisers are widely-used before 2270.  The only Klingon one that comes out before then is the FD7.  I wouldn't call that an unterrly scary or unbeatable ship, but I'm sure it does pose a few problems.  I don't think there are many current Klingon players who fly it, though.  I don't mind the FD7 once it gets the K-refit, but that usually happens after 2270, no?  Even then, I'm one of the few that fly it.  The real popular ship amongst Klingons is the FDW...which is a 2275 ship and as some have pointed out, it's good...but still beatable.


The SFB limits on these ships make sense and if we're looking to make SFC into something as close to SFB as possible, then similar limits might need to be considered, at least up until the middle of Mid-Era.  At that time, the options available ot most races reduce the lustre of the fast cruisers a bit.  I still like them, mainly because I don't like flying Klingon line-cruisers at all...including the D7L and D7W and most of the Klingon NCAs, and I don't think I'm alone.  For me, if I don't have a C7, then I want a D5L or FDW.  Conversely, some races really like their CAs. 


In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

[FPF-DieHard]

In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

I'm cool with that, but ONLY if limited by OOB.   They have enough advantages as is.

[FireSoul]

In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

I'm cool with that, but ONLY if limited by OOB.   They have enough advantages as is.

Yes, I've always supported that since that's what they were made for. If it costs 1BP to build them (on next servers?), so be it! 

But.  ...  What would they gain? The ability to disengage in deep strikes?
Sounds interesting to me.

[Grim]

I do know how you feel Lepton, i myself have had to take a break from the D2, hence why i havent been on the past two dynas. I'm hoping eventually i will find the hunger and the drive that will get me back playing.

[Surfal]

In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

I'm cool with that, but ONLY if limited by OOB.   They have enough advantages as is.

Yes, I've always supported that since that's what they were made for. If it costs 1BP to build them (on next servers?), so be it! 

But.  ...  What would they gain? The ability to disengage in deep strikes?
Sounds interesting to me.

That's the first thing that popped into my head, but would that really be enough to spend a BP on?  How about reducing the effect of, or even eliminating, the disengagement rule for fast cruisers?

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

I do know how you feel Lepton, i myself have had to take a break from the D2, hence why i havent been on the past two dynas. I'm hoping eventually i will find the hunger and the drive that will get me back playing.

RL made it very difficult for me to take part in LB5...so I'd count that as the major contributor to my complete absence, but definitely a part of it was that I needed a break after GW2.  Two months was a good break..now i'm having fun playing again.


I hope to see ya back out there sometime, Grim!


I tell ya...I was considering signing up for EVE right before GW3 started, but I figured it would be a bad idea to split my attention at that point...heheh.  I'll check it out in about 10 days or so...

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

I'm cool with that, but ONLY if limited by OOB.   They have enough advantages as is.

Yes, I've always supported that since that's what they were made for. If it costs 1BP to build them (on next servers?), so be it! 

But.  ...  What would they gain? The ability to disengage in deep strikes?
Sounds interesting to me.

1BP doesn't sound unreasonable...at least for a while.  I think as you get into the latter part of Mid Era, the possible need to restrict those ships lessens.


One of the things we discussed around the time of SS2 was that fast cruisers could be made the ONLY ships that could execute deepstrikes.  That sounds kind of interesting to me, too.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

In the past, we talked a little bit about giving these fast cruisers special roles like raiding behind the lines and such.  I think it might be interesting to explore that further abnd perhaps even implement something on at least a trial basis.

I'm cool with that, but ONLY if limited by OOB.   They have enough advantages as is.

Yes, I've always supported that since that's what they were made for. If it costs 1BP to build them (on next servers?), so be it! 

But.  ...  What would they gain? The ability to disengage in deep strikes?
Sounds interesting to me.

That's the first thing that popped into my head, but would that really be enough to spend a BP on?  How about reducing the effect of, or even eliminating, the disengagement rule for fast cruisers?

Very nice idea there...I kinda like that.  Spending a BP in a GW-style server for just a fast cruiser doesn't sound all that attractive...but giving it some special powers in return for that cost does sound interesting.

[FPF-DieHard]

One of the things we discussed around the time of SS2 was that fast cruisers could be made the ONLY ships that could execute deepstrikes.  That sounds kind of interesting to me, too.

Add in the DNLs (which in SFB really are simply big CFs) and ships with Cloaking Devices 

As far as costing a BP, not a bad idea.  I like the BP comcept that we stole from Corbo and love the concept of a team choosing what ships to build.  But then again, I'm for FULL OOB of all ships.

I think it is time for a vannilla server, look for something shortly after GW3.

[FireSoul]

One of the things we discussed around the time of SS2 was that fast cruisers could be made the ONLY ships that could execute deepstrikes.  That sounds kind of interesting to me, too.

Add in the DNLs (which in SFB really are simply big CFs) and ships with Cloaking Devices 

As far as costing a BP, not a bad idea.  I like the BP comcept that we stole from Corbo and love the concept of a team choosing what ships to build.  But then again, I'm for FULL OOB of all ships.

I think it is time for a vannilla server, look for something shortly after GW3.

A DNL would cost what, 4?

[FPF-DieHard]

One of the things we discussed around the time of SS2 was that fast cruisers could be made the ONLY ships that could execute deepstrikes.  That sounds kind of interesting to me, too.

Add in the DNLs (which in SFB really are simply big CFs) and ships with Cloaking Devices 

As far as costing a BP, not a bad idea.  I like the BP comcept that we stole from Corbo and love the concept of a team choosing what ships to build.  But then again, I'm for FULL OOB of all ships.

I think it is time for a vannilla server, look for something shortly after GW3.

A DNL would cost what, 4?

In a full OOB situation?  I would use the EP costs from F&E but "fighter factors" would have to be re-thought.   

EXAMPLES:

F-CF = 10 EP
F-CA =  8 EP
F-NCL = 5 EP
F-DN+ = 14 EP
F-DNL = 16 EP
F-DNH = 18 EP


F-DNL = 16 EP

[FireSoul]

Wouldn't keeping track be a pain? Is there a way to automate this process?

[FPF-DieHard]

Wouldn't keeping track be a pain? Is there a way to automate this process?

hell yeah!!!!  I never in a billion years would want to do this if it couldn't be automated!!  We could do this we an Excel spreadsheet like we did in the GW GSA campaigns.

SQL is our only hope. 

[FireSoul]

Wouldn't keeping track be a pain? Is there a way to automate this process?

hell yeah!!!!  I never in a billion years would want to do this if it couldn't be automated!!

SQL is our only hope. 

My thoughts exactly..
Oh! .. Remember that thing I talked to you about? That idea of mine?.. ..  ... *grin* 

[FPF-DieHard]

Wouldn't keeping track be a pain? Is there a way to automate this process?

hell yeah!!!!  I never in a billion years would want to do this if it couldn't be automated!!

SQL is our only hope. 

My thoughts exactly..
Oh! .. Remember that thing I talked to you about? That idea of mine?.. ..  ... *grin* 

The "Web-based" shipyard and spacedock?

[FireSoul]

Yes, well, that..
... that and my current shiplist enhancements in extra columns that I'm doing until I can test it. I *am* defining which ships are "LINE_SHIPS" you know..

.. if this works out, I'll have a shiplist API that support what the web interface will require without the ships being hardcoded. Of course it needs to be hardcoded anyways, in the shiplist.. but you just have to maintain THAT one source.

.. also, missions can become yet more savy.


More to come later. Must work now, and play tonight. This entire thing is shelved until I am satiated with gameplay.

-- Luc

[Mog]

I'm having fun flying all sorts of ships I refused to fly in the past. Only one I haven't enjoyed so far is the D5VK. Despite having 2 drone racks added, it's still crap, imho, compared to the other D5s. It's underpowered and the fighters are lacklustre to say the least. Does have one thing in its favour, and that is the K refit.

Talking of which, I noticed that some K refits are out now. Would be nice for them all to come out earlier in future servers.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'm having fun flying all sorts of ships I refused to fly in the past. Only one I haven't enjoyed so far is the D5VK. Despite having 2 drone racks added, it's still crap, imho, compared to the other D5s. It's underpowered and the fighters are lacklustre to say the least. Does have one thing in its favour, and that is the K refit.

Talking of which, I noticed that some K refits are out now. Would be nice for them all to come out earlier in future servers.

FYA's have not been touched from OP+, I'm assuming they match SFB.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

Well..flying a C8B for the first time since AOTK hasn't been the coolest thing since M&Ms, but it's still been enjoyable being on voice-chat with folks...heheh.

[Age]

I'm having fun flying all sorts of ships I refused to fly in the past. Only one I haven't enjoyed so far is the D5VK. Despite having 2 drone racks added, it's still crap, imho, compared to the other D5s. It's underpowered and the fighters are lacklustre to say the least. Does have one thing in its favour, and that is the K refit.

Talking of which, I noticed that some K refits are out now. Would be nice for them all to come out earlier in future servers.

What is a K refit?