Topic: Tugs

[Gook]

I would suggest Tug-A, CVT, BT for the purposes of this poll

[Kroma BaSyl]

yup...would add AUX units as well.

[madelf]

They would add flavor to the game, but the tugs are all way imbalanced compared to each other.  I have to vote no.

[FPF-DieHard]

No, the shipyards would be spammed with them and they really are supposed to be a rarity.

[FPF-Jem]

Not to mention that you'd probably get at least one in every single mission again which gets annoying.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

No, I would prefer not.  First, there is the "historical" reason.  And second, they eat up too much space in the shipyard!

-S'Cipio

[Rolling]

OP has tugs?!!!


Hmmmm.... the things you learn.

[zerosnark]

Yeah, but seeing a federation Battle Tug with six photons. . . . .ugh.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

LOL... you should see the one with 24 fighters!!

[Green]

No, the shipyards would be spammed with them and they really are supposed to be a rarity.

True.

But what about only one from each race to reduce the spamming in the yards?
And
Have them OOB controlled to reflect the rarity.  I don't believe any of them are really worth a Build Point or VC, but you could allow no more then 1-2 per race (assigned by the RM).

Tugs, Aux, and the other stuff can be fun to fly.  They are a POS for the most part, but still an interesting change-of-pace.

[Lepton]

I voted no, but I'd love to see some battle tugs to pop up every once in a while.

[FPF-AJTK]

Oh no, we cant have any TUGS on GW3. It gives DH hemorhoids when he sees a tug, and I cant STAND to listen to da fricken cryin and whinin  blah blah blah.

"Damn tugs.. too slow... not balanced...cheese....blah blah"

 

[Rod ONeal]

LOL I've been on the short end of every poll. Now I'm seeing why it seems like nobody ever agrees with me.

Tugs are slow. Most of them would be eaten alive in open space. The CVA/CVL equipped Fed tug being a possible exception. If you aren't familiar with it, look up Munster in the SFC dictionary. It's pic is there.

[IAF Lyrkiller]

I say YES...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

No, I would prefer not.  First, there is the "historical" reason.  And second, they eat up too much space in the shipyard!

-S'Cipio

Good reason to vote no here Scippy same with commando ships

[Holocat]

I recall the reasoning was their shipyard clogging and odd AI matching.

This is because a tug usually costs less than others of it's hull size, often costing comperable to something a hullsize or two less.

When AI selection schemes pick the largest hull that's near your BVP, we ended up seeing them every mission, pretty much.

If the latter is solved, then there's still shipyard production (for the same BVP reasons it's seen so often) to consider.

[FPF-DieHard]

I recall the reasoning was their shipyard clogging and odd AI matching.

This is because a tug usually costs less than others of it's hull size, often costing comperable to something a hullsize or two less.

When AI selection schemes pick the largest hull that's near your BVP, we ended up seeing them every mission, pretty much.

If the latter is solved, then there's still shipyard production (for the same BVP reasons it's seen so often) to consider.

That's easy to fix.   leave the tugs Restricted in the Client list but un-restrict them in the Server list.   They will appear in the yards but not as AI.

Tugs are still just too stupid though.

[FireSoul]

And I say No. They aren't supposed to be constant ships of war. They're usually sent on special missions like "Take that battlepod and go kill that base!".

.. usually, they are just carrying crap around.

-- Luc

[762_XC]

I also say no, but it would be nice to see them utilized in special scripts/scenarios (even Convoy Raid).

[Rod ONeal]

And I say No. They aren't supposed to be constant ships of war. They're usually sent on special missions like "Take that battlepod and go kill that base!".

.. usually, they are just carrying crap around.

-- Luc

True.

Tugs "normal" deployment was as 1, Faster better armed freighters better able to perform in a hostile enviroment. 2, Monitors either at bases or planets. Many times deployed for base construction as they could carry the supplies and help defend the construction area. 3, As a type of bombardment ship to attack planets or bases, 4, As an emergency combat vessel. They were actually more expensive to produce than a similary configured CA hull would be, more vulnerable in open space, and fairly rare. If would be cool to have them if they could be employed with limits.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Hmmm.... looking at ONeal's post... could we enter them as FREIGHTERS in the shiplist?

Limiting the amount of freighters produced would still make them available for base/planet busting... but not show up as AI in anything other than convoy raids. 

Of course, the added benefit is that they would stop the convoy raids from being cake walks.

BTW, is there a convoy raid mission for GW3?  Haven't seen one yet.

[FPF-DieHard]

BTW, is there a convoy raid mission for GW3?  Haven't seen one yet.

No, there will not be one until Dave fixes it (HINT HINT  )

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

So tugs will only show up in the shipyard then if the shiplist considers them as freighters.

Is that a fair compromise?

[FPF-DieHard]

So tugs will only show up in the shipyard then if the shiplist considers them as freighters.

Is that a fair compromise?

Huh? 

Serously folks, who the hell really wants to fly a tug except out of morbid curiosity?

[el-Karnak]

Tugs should be SPECIAL class in the shiplist along with any other Special ships that are designed for unique roles in the fleet.  

Then you can assign specific shipyard costs and construction rate more commensurate with their specialized fleet role. BTW, SPECIAL class designation also keeps them Tugs out of the EEK missions as generated AI.

[Rod ONeal]

Tugs should be SPECIAL class in the shiplist along with any other Special ships that are designed for unique roles in the fleet.  

Then you can assign specific shipyard costs and construction rate more commensurate with their specialized fleet role. BTW, SPECIAL class designation also keeps them Tugs out of the EEK missions as generated AI.

Yes! I can think of some real world situations where tugs would be beneficial and add to the game. For example, your fleet just lost that (insert any limited construction ship that there are pods made for) and another one isn't immediately available to replace it. Configure a tug to insert into the fleet to take it's place until one does become available. They could be script generated for missions that they were "historically" used, assaulting/defending a fixed target or special cargo missions, ans soforth.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

So tugs will only show up in the shipyard then if the shiplist considers them as freighters.

Is that a fair compromise?

Huh? 

Serously folks, who the hell really wants to fly a tug except out of morbid curiosity?

*raises hand*

Base/planet buster!!!!

[FPF-DieHard]

So tugs will only show up in the shipyard then if the shiplist considers them as freighters.

Is that a fair compromise?

Huh? 

Serously folks, who the hell really wants to fly a tug except out of morbid curiosity?

*raises hand*

Base/planet buster!!!!

Not needed.  We have real warships that fill that role.

[FPF-Jem]

I like the idea of tugs(and other special ships) showing up in special scripted missions every now and then. That makes more sense then just having them generally availble.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

I like the idea of tugs(and other special ships) showing up in special scripted missions every now and then. That makes more sense then just having them generally availble.

*watches DH's face turn red as he sets to explode over this topic*

[Vorcha]

Naaaa Tugs are fun to play occasionally...but in a D2 campaign would be a pain.

[Green]

Huh? 

Serously folks, who the hell really wants to fly a tug except out of morbid curiosity?

I know we had at least a couple of major servers were tug (and aux) ships could be flown.  But I also know I actually had a pvp win and a couple of run-offs in a CVAT...against much smaller ships.

I agree w/ the shipyard spamming and "historical' reasons why not to have them, but 1 or 2 in the hands of players only would be fun.

[zerosnark]

[q]They were actually more expensive to produce than a similary configured CA hull would be, more vulnerable in open space, and fairly rare. If would be cool to have them if they could be employed with limits. [/q]

The problem is that the way they were implemented in SFB, they are not that expensive and not that vulnerable. Especially the war variants. If I recall correctly, the Klingon tugs actually had substantial firepower, even without pods. In game terms, the limitations of the tug combos were not really that evident. Why build big CVA's if you could just use CVA pods on your tugs? Put more money into the escorts. (essentially what the US navy does). That way, losing a CVA would not hurt as much.

My thought on Tugs goes back to the Franz Joseph Design manual. The idea of Tugs is to provide a fast freighter capability. . .presumably standard freighters are too slow for certain tasks. That was also an idea behind the Scout. A key secondary mission for Scouts was "VIP Transport".. . .again, presumably standard liners and yachts are too slow. . .

. . .in game terms, this could be achieved by simply eliminating the funky pods. And I think a cargo tug could make an interesting target for many scenarios.

. . .I also don't think freighters are appropriate for all races. Feds => sure. The federation is way spread out. The Hydrans Kingdom is small. . .and they probably shouldn't be building such big freighters at the expense of first line warships.

Klinks might be a special case, but I also can't see the Klingons expending resources on fast freighters. Fast troop ships, maybe. But keep in mind that the D7 and D6 have gobs of marines and transporters. . to serve the troopship function (just like an Imperial Star Destroyer).