Topic: The Numbered Flamefest Aftermath.

[KAT MRess]

Modified shiplists that remove some models and restrict others.
Increased costs of a races primary weapon.
Reduced drone control.

On what fantasy server have any of these changes taken place?

Just about EVERY server since about CW3.

Stock shiplist Drone control (out-of-box)for the Mirak/Kzin race is three times the number of racks on a ship (an MDC could loft 21 missiles at once). This was deemed "excessive". Therfor, the drone control was reduced to less than double. We'll be lucky to get control of ten, maybe twelve on actual drone boats. Not sure which server that was brought in on, but it's been there for a while.

Drone prices on a stock server are 1 for mark I and 3 for mark IV. On most servers it is about 2-3 for Mark I and 4-5 for MArk IV. It does vary but always more than stock. Some server went as high as 5 for Mark I and 8-10 for Mark IV.

Drone ships have been severely limited for the last few servers. To the point where it was diificult to find one let a lone purchase one (I neglected to mention the fact that they have been re-classified as a heavier class and therefor cost more as well).

All this in the name of balance.

NOTE: in the combined shiplist, several ships were omitted completely. But since this affects all races that are combined it is a non-point.

[Mog]

I think some people have forgotten that the D2 is a two tier multiplayer system.

It IS multiplayer from the second you log into the map.  What you do, regardless of PvP or PvAI affects EVERY player by way of the map.

The second tier is PvP.   Direct ship to ship combat that affects everyone as well becuase it alters the map as well.

So, you either fight AI to win a hex, or you PvP to force disengagement so you can fight AI to win a hex (lol).

So, I would like to see how a disengagement rule like this would work.

If you run, you are out 30-60 minutes.

If you die, you are not banned from hex, but the winner gets 1 VC point....for any kill.

This would give the people that want to fight a choice.   "Do I want to run and be banned, or give it a go, know that you might die, but  be able to go get a better ship and come back?"

The winner gets the chance of making multiple VC's if the other guy keeps coming back.  SO the PvP guy can sit there all day getting points and changing DV's.

I like it too.

[FPF-DieHard]

Stock shiplist Drone control (out-of-box)for the Mirak/Kzin race is three times the number of racks on a ship (an MDC could loft 21 missiles at once). This was deemed "excessive". Therfor, the drone control was reduced to less than double. We'll be lucky to get control of ten, maybe twelve on actual drone boats. Not sure which server that was brought in on, but it's been there for a while.

Do you really feel a ship with 21 drone control is resonable?  i do not remember this but then again, I never played the game un-patched.

Drone prices on a stock server are 1 for mark I and 3 for mark IV. On most servers it is about 2-3 for Mark I and 4-5 for MArk IV. It does vary but always more than stock. Some server went as high as 5 for Mark I and 8-10 for Mark IV.

You should pay for expendable.  You are pretty much getting free BPV for mission matching, you should have to pay someplacde.   Same thing with fighters and PFs.   I flew Kzin on GW1 and thought the prices were resonable.

I feel drones are way over-priced on GSA which hurts the Kzin there.   

Drone ships have been severely limited for the last few servers. To the point where it was diificult to find one let a lone purchase one (I neglected to mention the fact that they have been re-classified as a heavier class and therefor cost more as well).

Non-sense.  Limited?  I have never seen that. 

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

They have been limited on some past servers, but they aren't too hard to find usually on the more recent ones.

[Mog]

From what I remember, there is a problem with the game engine when it comes to more than 12 drone control.

[KAT MRess]

Do you really feel a ship with 21 drone control is resonable?  i do not remember this but then again, I never played the game un-patched.

It was rather over the top. Good for base busting, but smaller ships never stood a chance against it, especially considering some were able to fly fleets of 3 MDC's (one could loft 63 drones!). Hence the CnC rules.

You should pay for expendable.  You are pretty much getting free BPV for mission matching, you should have to pay someplacde.   Same thing with fighters and PFs.   I flew Kzin on GW1 and thought the prices were resonable.

I feel drones are way over-priced on GSA which hurts the Kzin there.

Paying for expendables is a given. However, when the price of replacing drones equals or outweighs the pp rewards per mission.  You can see where the problem is. Hence, improved reloads and controlled pricing.

Non-sense.  Limited?  I have never seen that. 

Better look again, drone ships were classified as a "Bombardment class" ship and had a lower production rate in the yards. On other servers they were classified as a hull larger so they would not only cost more but consistantly draw a larger opponent to battle. I believe is was Strangelove that an MDC would routinely draw not one but two Aux. Carriers, resulting in you having to kill 30+ heavy fighters (with only 10 or 12 drone control).

Classification of the "Drone ship" has been the one of the more effective means of controlling which ships are in the field. The larger classes such as Dn's suffered the same restrictions.

I'm not complaining about these steps (30+ fighters was a fun challenge), but these are the methods used to balance certain issues out.

[FPF-DieHard]

ARRCCCKKKKk Too many quotes!!!

 - We argree that that old school MDC was a little much, nothing to argue about.   

 - You do not need fast drones to kill AI.  Speed increases help with PvP and you SHOULD pay for it.  With the GW setup, I had no issue making a profit even in a strike carrier.
 
 - Strangelove doesn't count, that server had too much weird p00p in it to be considered normal.   

[Bonk]

I had a battle last night against piggie, he was in a mirak HDW of some kind (one MIRV, 1 A rack, 2 B racks and 2 C racks...  ) I was in a D5DR and went boom! drb had a hard time to kill it with a C7! The Mirak are far from neutered.

I think you may be recalling stuff from EAW here MRess. There has never been the capability for a drone control greater than 12 in OP, that I recall. (or EAW, that I recall either). As Mog said, a ship with a drone control of greater than 12 causes problems as I discovered in work on SFB-OP.

I'm pretty sure the DF or MDC never had a drone control greater than 12.

I'm pretty sure FS has not reduced any double drone control ships to less than 12 in OP+ that I am aware of...

So, send me some of that good sh** you're smoking... you clearly don't need it all!

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

 - Strangelove doesn't count, that server had too much weird p00p in it to be considered normal.   

what about Die Hard, I heard it said that he was full of p00p?

<Snicker>

[FPF-DieHard]

So, send me some of that good sh** you're smoking... you clearly don't need it all!

It's the nip, Bonk.

You going Ridgehead on GW3?

[Laflin]

From what I can see, Lepton is about right in his assessment of the main role of drone ships. It's to kill ai, re Sockfoot's campaign guide. There are a number of people (nb NOT ALL - warsears springs to mind lol) who fly drone ships that do try to avoid pvp, because, as Sockfoot's campaign guide says, pvp is a waste of ai killing time.

So I'm not really sure what you're arguing about, Mress.

Grrrr...

[Bonk]

You going Ridgehead on GW3?

Yup, I feel all bumpy already.

[Mog]

From what I can see, Lepton is about right in his assessment of the main role of drone ships. It's to kill ai, re Sockfoot's campaign guide. There are a number of people (nb NOT ALL - warsears springs to mind lol) who fly drone ships that do try to avoid pvp, because, as Sockfoot's campaign guide says, pvp is a waste of ai killing time.

So I'm not really sure what you're arguing about, Mress.

Grrrr...

Sorry Laffy, for not mentioning you with warsears. I prefer to remember you more as a Lyran rather than a droner

[KAT MRess]

I had a battle last night against piggie, he was in a mirak HDW of some kind (one MIRV, 1 A rack, 2 B racks and 2 C racks...  ) I was in a D5DR and went boom! drb had a hard time to kill it with a C7! The Mirak are far from neutered.

I think you may be recalling stuff from EAW here MRess. There has never been the capability for a drone control greater than 12 in OP, that I recall. (or EAW, that I recall either). As Mog said, a ship with a drone control of greater than 12 causes problems as I discovered in work on SFB-OP.

I'm pretty sure the DF or MDC never had a drone control greater than 12.

I'm pretty sure FS has not reduced any double drone control ships to less than 12 in OP+ that I am aware of...

So, send me some of that good sh** you're smoking... you clearly don't need it all!

You're absolutely right, yes I am talking EAW (and enjoying da 'nip!). But that is my point, improvements have been made whether by us or Taldren.

I believe OP did Hard code a limit of 12 on the drones. But I also recall them asking for feedback for this kind of stuff too. We got so excited about the request for feedback (whoo hoo they were actually listening!).

[Mog]

I think some people have forgotten that the D2 is a two tier multiplayer system.

It IS multiplayer from the second you log into the map.  What you do, regardless of PvP or PvAI affects EVERY player by way of the map.

The second tier is PvP.   Direct ship to ship combat that affects everyone as well becuase it alters the map as well.

So, you either fight AI to win a hex, or you PvP to force disengagement so you can fight AI to win a hex (lol).

So, I would like to see how a disengagement rule like this would work.

If you run, you are out 30-60 minutes.

If you die, you are not banned from hex, but the winner gets 1 VC point....for any kill.

This would give the people that want to fight a choice.   "Do I want to run and be banned, or give it a go, know that you might die, but  be able to go get a better ship and come back?"

The winner gets the chance of making multiple VC's if the other guy keeps coming back.  SO the PvP guy can sit there all day getting points and changing DV's.

I like it.   

Make vannila ships exempt from the VC penalty so people actually fly them !   

Going to use this on GW3? Please ?

[FPF-DieHard]

I think some people have forgotten that the D2 is a two tier multiplayer system.

It IS multiplayer from the second you log into the map.  What you do, regardless of PvP or PvAI affects EVERY player by way of the map.

The second tier is PvP.   Direct ship to ship combat that affects everyone as well becuase it alters the map as well.

So, you either fight AI to win a hex, or you PvP to force disengagement so you can fight AI to win a hex (lol).

So, I would like to see how a disengagement rule like this would work.

If you run, you are out 30-60 minutes.

If you die, you are not banned from hex, but the winner gets 1 VC point....for any kill.

This would give the people that want to fight a choice.   "Do I want to run and be banned, or give it a go, know that you might die, but  be able to go get a better ship and come back?"

The winner gets the chance of making multiple VC's if the other guy keeps coming back.  SO the PvP guy can sit there all day getting points and changing DV's.

I like it.   

Make vannila ships exempt from the VC penalty so people actually fly them !   

Going to use this on GW3? Please ?

Nope, not changing the rules  now.

[Mog]

Pity but ok.