Topic: David Gerrold: Roddenberry Disliked Berman !

[Chris SI]

I'm not saying the rank was new, I'm saying they thought it would be nice if MILES was a pettyofficer.

As quite a few folks mentioned, crewmen in Trek is as old as the first pilot.

[Domjot]

I wonder what show I was thinking of then.

Either DS9 where genetically enhanced humans were not allowed to join Starfleet or Babylon 5 where teleptaths were not allowed to join Earth Force.

I thought i vaguelly recall an episode (in season one perhaps?) where it was stated that Troi was just a civilian.

She's been an officer right from the start. In "Encounter at Farpoint" for example she wore a uniform and LtCmdr-pips.

My knowledge of naval terminology is a bit limited, but I was always under the impression that "Yeoman" wasn't a rank per se, but a positition

Actually, it's both, although it's not called rank but rate (rank is used for commissioned officers, rate for enlisted personnel). A Yeoman 1st class for example is a Petty Officer 1st class who works as Yeoman. A Senior Chief Yeoman is a Senior Chief Petty Officer who works as Yeoman, etc.

About Rand: She was a yeoman in TOS, a CPO in TMP, then we saw her as full Commander in TSFS but she was only credited as "woman in cafeteria", in TVH she appeared in an enlisted uniform and according to the script she was a Master Chief Petty Officer, next time we saw her (TUC) she was a Lt. JG, and then Voyager f*cked it up royally and showed her as Lt. Cmdr. Solution for that mess: Ignore TSFS and "Flashback".

O'Brien's even more messed up. We first saw him in "Encounter at Farpoint" with an Ensign pip, then in season 2 with full Lt. pips (he even got referred to as Lt. once by Riker). In "Family" he was referred to as "Chief Petty Officer" by Worf's father while still wearing full Lt. pips. His insignia was finally corrected in TNG's season six where he got one black pip. Then in one DS9 episode (I think it was "Past Prologue") Keiko mentions that he was promoted, but he was still wearing one black pip. In "Shadowplay" he referred to himself as "Senior Chief Specialist". Therefore I think that O'Brien was promoted from CPO to SCPO after his transfer from the E-D to DS9 and that the black pip is a generic insignia for CPOs, Senior Chiefs, and Master Chiefs.

There've been enlisted men in all shows and movies, just the complexity of their rate insignia varied from uniform to uniform. Best portrayal of enlisted men was beyound doubt in the TOS movies. Insignia were designed for every rate, they even wore different uniforms than commissioned officers and also the ratio between commissioned officers and enlisted personnel was much much better than in the shows. In TNG for example tons of officers were shown but only a handfull of enlisted men, but in TUC I counted approximately 10 officers aboard the Enterprise-A and all the other extras were enlisted.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Where did those new rank pins come from in Voyager?  I know Spike's site explains it in a canonical way... It's to tell the difference between Maquis and normal Starfleet personell, right?

Yep.

I did watch some of the early Voyagers, and after the initial episode, when the 2 crews were integrated, Janeway made them all wear Starfleet Uniforms, but couldn't pin on them official Starfleet ranks (even if they had one before they joined the Maquis), so the black "solid" pins were quickly designed for them...

Notice the "Standard" Voyager crew (Janeway, Kim, Tuvok, Paris) get standard circular pips, while the Maquis (Chakotay & Torres) get the black bars...

[USS Mariner]

Where did those new rank pins come from in Voyager?  I know Spike's site explains it in a canonical way... It's to tell the difference between Maquis and normal Starfleet personell, right?

Yep.

I did watch some of the early Voyagers, and after the initial episode, when the 2 crews were integrated, Janeway made them all wear Starfleet Uniforms, but couldn't pin on them official Starfleet ranks (even if they had one before they joined the Maquis), so the black "solid" pins were quickly designed for them...

Notice the "Standard" Voyager crew (Janeway, Kim, Tuvok, Paris) get standard circular pips, while the Maquis (Chakotay & Torres) get the black bars...

I would guess that the "bars" for the Maquis crewmembers are actually "appointed" ranks, that is, a rank that is given to a paticular non-Starfleet (or former Starfleet) person by the Captian in order to serve as an officer or crewman in emergency situations. Once the crisis is over (whether in 7 days or in 7 years,) these Appointed crewmembers would be able to either discard these ranks or be elligible to enter Starfleet Academy with provisional credits already given to them because of their field experience. This would allow them to effectivley skip the latter half of their Seinor year at the Academy (which is mostly field training IIRC) and become real officers.

Not necessarily canon but that's how I figure it.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Funny thing is I recall at least 1 "Maquis" officer, Chakotay, was a prior-service Starfleet Officer who resigned his commission and joined the Maquis...

[Blyre]

Probaly William Shatner, Gene and him didn't get along at all.

The person I'm talking about definately wasn't William Shatner.  He had a closer role to Desilu appointed supervisor than actor.

Gene Coon?
Died in '73 from lung cancer. Trek-writer-producer, acted as "studio adult supervision" according to Gerrold.
In other words: Coon was to TOS as Berman was to TNG

Not to say Gerrold is wrong about Berman, but he is hawking a book series. Remember, in Hollywood: controversy = free publicity
If you go to Gerrold's website and download the free copy of "The Trouble With Tribbles", you'll find the first 6 or so pages are a teaser for his new book.

I believe that Gene liked Gene Coon. However, Producer or Director Fred Freiberger (sp?) is generally blamed for the low quality that existed in TOS's last scene is considered the most hated person among TOS fans.

Wallace