Topic: 11 & 12 none contentious ?

[Cleaven]

I think Gook was referring to being able to in the SPG as a hexflipping ship, which it is the combination of the alpha and boarding action being enough to take out many ships without waiting for the plasma to recharge.  Doesn't help in early era however.  I still think the way to go is to have a basic pftender and INTs available at the start.  A chickenhawk with 3 INTs shouldn't threaten anyone too badly.

Ahh so he avoids reality, such as it is, by going off into la la land, telling me I'm just not "willing enough" when he's not even talking about a ship that is available at the time. Like I said - nutty.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I figure Gook just didn't know that the commado ships had been restricted out of the list on many recent servers as he wasn't around for most of them, his "nuttiness" being the result of not being aware of the fact.

Anyhow, what do you think about the PFT/INT suggestion Cleaven?  Would this fit the bill to even the hexflipping a bit so we wouldn't have to listen to the mission times complaint so much?

did not say it wasn't a valid concern mind you.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Cleaven ponders my suggestion........hehe

[Gook]

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

I know it's a trick question so I will give it to you again. Please explain which of the available ships (K5R, BH, WE, KR, and eveb the WB+) is better than the KRC at doing quick AI missions. Now you are about to tell me which of those ships is able to "run a standard AI patrol in 2 minutes".

Go right ahead and tell me. Don't keep it to yourself because I am ever so keen to hear. It's quite simple - put up or shut up, and stop prattling on about "ones I know that can", because I think you are getting nuttier by the post.

No, its pointeless, if you can't work out what I have said that's your problem.

[Cleaven]

At start of game the fastest missions are generally run by the KR, by virtue of it's phaser's and transporters, but depending on the front (Gorn or ISC) the BH would be a better choice since it is more survivable against plasma hits.

Technically mid era starts pretty quick and the KRC turns up soon after. Better shields, more transporters, and more plasma and swivel mounts (plus the extra phasers make for crippling alphas).

SPF comes out next, and against non drone AI is a good choice. Some skill is required if you are going to battle drone AI because you have to deal with them every turn. BUT you have to be careful all the time because you become a sitting duck while recharging.

Slide on into the SPF+ when it comes out 6 years later. Perhaps upgrade to a CH when they come out, but only if you don't have to pay for your PF's through the nose.

Once the AI get X-ships pack up and go home.

Times - assuming a useless AI who's only contribution is to tie up one of the AI for 2 turns. When driving a small ship it is most likely to get another small ally ship and therefore usually unable to move and charge properly - drone bait. With the KRC the enemy will be larger but it's pretty simple to alpha cripple one and get the other to chase you while slinging plasma to the rear. After 5-7 min both should be crippled and able to be captured, UNLESS the odds are such that you draw DNE's - pack up and go home. 8 min missions?

For the small maulers, it's a matter of risk and how fast you want to go. Force the AI to weasel, get behind him and pound away, but with no phasers (needed for PD) no ECM, and no reinforced shields. Dangerous but deadly if the allied AI dies quickly - too many drones come at you and you are moving dead slow. 4-5 minutes if all goes well.

Against a plasma opponent, it's easier but slower because you have to wait for the plasma to be fired, then get in and pound away before they can reload. Your AI helper will probably stay alive a little longer so life is not as dangerous. 5-6 minutes simply because of the timing issues.

But I also think that half the time your AI ally is going to be a dud and do nothing useful at all, and then there will be the 15 min horrors where both enemy ships come after you and your ally dissappears in a quick ball of flame. This is one thing you will not get with the KRC/S because you win when they chase you. 10 min even when it's two against one.

[Cleaven]

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

I know it's a trick question so I will give it to you again. Please explain which of the available ships (K5R, BH, WE, KR, and eveb the WB+) is better than the KRC at doing quick AI missions. Now you are about to tell me which of those ships is able to "run a standard AI patrol in 2 minutes".

Go right ahead and tell me. Don't keep it to yourself because I am ever so keen to hear. It's quite simple - put up or shut up, and stop prattling on about "ones I know that can", because I think you are getting nuttier by the post.

No, its pointless, if you can't work out what I have said that's your problem.

That's just it, you haven't said anything except that you know how to do 2 min missions in an early Romulan ship and you are not telling. Well what is the purpose in that except malicious nuisance. What am I supposed to do, because you just can't do what you say you can.

2 min early Rom missions, hah, I can feel a new signature coming on.

[Cleaven]

Anyhow, what do you think about the PFT/INT suggestion Cleaven?  Would this fit the bill to even the hexflipping a bit so we wouldn't have to listen to the mission times complaint so much?

The fastest missions I have ever had were a series of ambushes with a KDP. Less than 2 minutes. If it wasn't for the pricing of the PF's and their tendancy to die easilly in high density AI missions I would have kept doing it.

So I would be wary of a CH with INT's against drone equiped ships. Once the PF's are gone you have to run away.

[Cleaven]

Cleaven ponders my suggestion........hehe

Nothing to ponder in your suggestions. What's next, fart jokes?

Ahh shove it - go play with Gook's drone fleets. I've got better things to do.

[FPF-DieHard]

There is little more disheartening than setting up a GSA room and sitting there for an hour or more trying to get people to play against you...

Then show up to our training sessions.   5 hours of straight IP games with D2 loadouts.  More fun than actual D2.

[Bonk]

There is little more disheartening than setting up a GSA room and sitting there for an hour or more trying to get people to play against you...

Then show up to our training sessions.   5 hours of straight IP games with D2 loadouts.  More fun than actual D2.

Sounds like fun. I used to play a lot of direct tcp/ip games, but not so much lately, and have been missing that style of play. I just may come check it out if that's cool, (I don't know about the whole "frickin good guys" thing tho.. - I'm flying klingon on GW3).

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Anyhow, what do you think about the PFT/INT suggestion Cleaven?  Would this fit the bill to even the hexflipping a bit so we wouldn't have to listen to the mission times complaint so much?

The fastest missions I have ever had were a series of ambushes with a KDP. Less than 2 minutes. If it wasn't for the pricing of the PF's and their tendancy to die easilly in high density AI missions I would have kept doing it.

So I would be wary of a CH with INT's against drone equiped ships. Once the PF's are gone you have to run away.

Good point about the Chickenhawk in multiple ai missions, however would likely do nicely for 1 v 1 vs slow drones in early, and perhaps in mid as well with many missions that use slow drones for ai loadout.

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Cleaven ponders my suggestion........hehe

Nothing to ponder in your suggestions. What's next, fart jokes?

Ahh shove it - go play with Gook's drone fleets. I've got better things to do.

Pon´der
v. t. 1. [imp. & p. p. Pondered ; p. pr. & vb. n. Pondering.]
 1. To weigh.
 2. To weigh in the mind; to view with deliberation; to examine carefully; to consider attentively.


Actually you did ponder and gave a good answer.  And don't plan on making Hydran jokes here......

As far as shoving it did I miss something? 

As for playing with drone fleets, I have always been in favor of a CnC fleet control and even then when that is allowed have flown multiple ships perhaps 1% of my time on such servers where they are allowed, so I think you can politely shove that response.

[Bonk]

...I just tested the:
PrestigeModiferOnShipGrant   = -10000
DeathShipBPVPenalty         = .25
lines in the ship.gf and the PrestigeModiferOnShipGrant has no effect at all...  (damn undocumented, unused gf settings... arg! nothing like a black box to keep you guessing...). The DeathShipBPVPenalty does work however.

I just noticed that the PrestigeModiferOnShipGrant applies to lifetime prestige not current prestige so it does do something, a demotion of sorts on shiploss anyway...

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Can you explain this in layman's terms Bonk?

[el-Karnak]

There is little more disheartening than setting up a GSA room and sitting there for an hour or more trying to get people to play against you...

Then show up to our training sessions.   5 hours of straight IP games with D2 loadouts.  More fun than actual D2.

Sounds like fun. I used to play a lot of direct tcp/ip games, but not so much lately, and have been missing that style of play. I just may come check it out if that's cool, (I don't know about the whole "frickin good guys" thing tho.. - I'm flying klingon on GW3).

Yeah, it's a blast.  Have not had this much fun in SFC ever before by playing IP games.  Too many times on the dyna there are techie P-R-O-B-L-E-M-S, and player I-S-S-U-E-S, and nobody helps you, and you don't get much PvP action going at all.  Playing IP games is pretty reminiscient of the Age of Sail games I did before SFC.  There would be fleet challenges and the battles over bases were resolved in IP games. So, it's all PvP action with sometimes mixed AI thrown in.  I have had more fun "training" than in playing the dynas itself.  For example, for the past two weeks I've played 95% of the time Klingon ships.  It would probably take me 3 or 4 dyna camps. to get in the amount of Klingon PvP I've done in the last 14 days.  Now, I'm playing with Fed ships. Maybe, I will get bored with the GW3 dyna starts cuz we don't "train" no more, hehe.

I think Max's GW campaign is going to be a hit.

[Lepton]

I'll repeat again I am more than willing to give up the Kzin if all other drones are removed, if that will solve the problem.

Sold!!  Yank'em!!  No droner variants of any kind for other races.  Problem solved.

[FPF-DieHard]

I'll repeat again I am more than willing to give up the Kzin if all other drones are removed, if that will solve the problem.

Sold!!  Yank'em!!  No droner variants of any kind for other races.  Problem solved.

In a serious, non-snide note . . .   Anyone else notice that 90% of the issue in D2/SFC are from Specialty ships that were suppsed to be very rare?

[Gook]

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

I know it's a trick question so I will give it to you again. Please explain which of the available ships (K5R, BH, WE, KR, and eveb the WB+) is better than the KRC at doing quick AI missions. Now you are about to tell me which of those ships is able to "run a standard AI patrol in 2 minutes".

Go right ahead and tell me. Don't keep it to yourself because I am ever so keen to hear. It's quite simple - put up or shut up, and stop prattling on about "ones I know that can", because I think you are getting nuttier by the post.

No, its pointless, if you can't work out what I have said that's your problem.

That's just it, you haven't said anything except that you know how to do 2 min missions in an early Romulan ship and you are not telling. Well what is the purpose in that except malicious nuisance. What am I supposed to do, because you just can't do what you say you can.

2 min early Rom missions, hah, I can feel a new signature coming on.

<sighs>

Just shows how utterly you have missed the point, I can't do a 2 minute mission in any of the ships you mentioned, THAT is the point, the discrepancy. It is possible to do reasonably fast missions in 2268 ships, one happens to be restricted (SPG) SPF, can do 3-4 minutes and a KD4 around 4 minutes, even managed to do 4.30 in a FAL, but it's still slower than a droner, hence the waffle on plasma BPVs. Now I am no plasma captain and I expect others can do better than I, but still not fast enough. Now drop the BPV some and the times improve. (All missions run against FED oponents of aprox 110% BPV of Rom ship).

The question remains if there were such a ship(s) (Rommie/ISC/Gorn) would it be used if it were a good flipper but crap PvP ship? That is a mind set change.

Tell me Cleaven do you think the cloak is good value/worth the cost for a Rommie?

[Julin Eurthyr]

I'll repeat again I am more than willing to give up the Kzin if all other drones are removed, if that will solve the problem.

Sold!!  Yank'em!!  No droner variants of any kind for other races.  Problem solved.

In a serious, non-snide note . . .   Anyone else notice that 90% of the issue in D2/SFC are from Specialty ships that were suppsed to be very rare?

Actually, as far as I remember, the only flamed ship in my study of the D2 that is not limited production / conjectural / bears shock / affected by S8 patrol rules / or otherwise limited in SFB with limits that do not exist here in SFC is the I-CCZ.

Yet when people wonder why I hound conjectural ships or 3xDB ship fleets (when the limit is 1 DB per 3 ship squadron, not to exceed 3 DBs in a 9+ ship fleet), or non-escorted fleets of 3 tenders / carriers (at least until all races get PFs, as Taldren gave the PF races tenders instead of carriers), and I tell them that in years of lurking I haven't seen any other line ships besides the I-CCZ getting flamed, but I can find a SFB limit for every other flamed ship, they ignore me, or cite the fact that a 3-page patrol rule, along with the listing of all conjectural / limited / shock carrying ships is too much to worry about, or complain Taldren should have limited them in the game's code, and since they didn't Taldren intened them to be freely used.  Just not against them...

DH, wanna talk about this further sometimes???  I've got some ideas I would like to maybe one day stick into a server.  Yes, I've been batting around building a server of my own for a year or 2 now...

[FPF-DieHard]

DH, wanna talk about this further sometimes???  I've got some ideas I would like to maybe one day stick into a server.  Yes, I've been batting around building a server of my own for a year or 2 now...

I would love to, BS with me on TS while we kill Klinks.