Topic: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.  (Read 8601 times)

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Offline airBiscuit

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #40 on: August 05, 2004, 03:25:26 pm »
That would be why the power for a photon can only come from warp power and no other source in SFB?  Warp engines being the ones with antimatter?
I agree with your statement based on modern published Trek reference materials but I disagree as far as original SFB usage.

There's a good explanation for that.  The torpedo gets it's launch propulsion from the warp drive.  Since the torpedoes have warp-sustainer coils, warp power is needed to prime them for the kick out the door.  Now at sublight speeds, this warp energy is still used due to its strong power impulse, but the torpedo only gets primed to sub-cochrane levels.  The torpedo expends its drive fuel with the coils active and then kicks in the M/AM reaction for very long flight times.


Offline airBiscuit

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #41 on: August 05, 2004, 03:27:56 pm »
Can one deploy a counter-measure that might distract a seeking weapon from it's intended target?

Sure.  It's called a Wild Weasel.  However, your ship has to slow way down (speed 4?) to not give yourself away.  The Wild Weasel broadcasts a signal that makes it appear to the seeking weapon as the target ship, and the real target ship slowly slips away.

Offline Tulwar

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #42 on: August 05, 2004, 10:49:14 pm »
Light is very fast, but space is very big.  The Moon is 38 hexes distant by SFB scales.  That is about 1.3 seconds at light speed.  A phaser shot at half that range (19 hexes) still takes .6 sec or so TOT (time to reach target).  A target moving at .01C (1/100 lightspeed) will move about 200km in that time.
:rules:

I'm not sure if 10,000 km is 1 c/s distance, but the SFB rules say it take a ship moving at c to cross one hex per turn, thus a ship firing at the Earth from the Moon's orbit would be pretty close to point blank, and Sol would be in overload range.  Miniature rules might be different, or I could be reading from an obsolete edition of SFB.

The warp factor scale from TOS is exponents of c, thus warp 1 is c, and warp 4 is 16c.  The maximum speed ships can engage each other is somewhere between warp 5 and 6.  Note that the scale has changed in TNG where warp 10 is infinite speed.

SFB also has rules for "disengagement by sublight evasion" whereby ships not equipped with a warp core may disappear under impulse power.

The makers of SFB were thinking in large scales.  EW appears in SFB as a simplified abstraction assuming all ships have similar sensor suites.

Has anyone seen a picture of the USS Enterprize (the aircraft carrier) as it appeared in the 1960's?  The superstructure was covered with antennas for EW.  The designers intended that it use those nuclear powerplants to make some serious electronic noise!
Cannon (can' nun) n.  An istrument used to rectify national boundries.  Ambrois Bierce, The Devil's Dictionary

Offline Cleaven

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #43 on: August 05, 2004, 11:09:03 pm »
Can one deploy a counter-measure that might distract a seeking weapon from it's intended target?

Sure.  It's called a Wild Weasel.  However, your ship has to slow way down (speed 4?) to not give yourself away.  The Wild Weasel broadcasts a signal that makes it appear to the seeking weapon as the target ship, and the real target ship slowly slips away.

Does TNG have the same sort of thing for it's seeking weapons?

Not sure I can be bothered, but as you are the Doc, can you run an AI standard patrol in 2 minutes in a KRC? If so, there is no problem and I am utterly wrong. If you cannot, then the KRC is a worse ship for AI missions than ones I know can.

Offline Byzantine

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #44 on: August 06, 2004, 12:25:22 am »
Can one deploy a counter-measure that might distract a seeking weapon from it's intended target?

Sure.  It's called a Wild Weasel.  However, your ship has to slow way down (speed 4?) to not give yourself away.  The Wild Weasel broadcasts a signal that makes it appear to the seeking weapon as the target ship, and the real target ship slowly slips away.

Does TNG have the same sort of thing for it's seeking weapons?
If by TNG you mean SFC3 then no - there are no seeking weapons and thus no need for Wild Weasel.  If you meant something else then, as Emily Litella would say, never mind.

Offline Byzantine

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #45 on: August 06, 2004, 12:42:10 am »
Light is very fast, but space is very big.  The Moon is 38 hexes distant by SFB scales.  That is about 1.3 seconds at light speed.  A phaser shot at half that range (19 hexes) still takes .6 sec or so TOT (time to reach target).  A target moving at .01C (1/100 lightspeed) will move about 200km in that time.
:rules:

I'm not sure if 10,000 km is 1 c/s distance, but the SFB rules say it take a ship moving at c to cross one hex per turn, thus a ship firing at the Earth from the Moon's orbit would be pretty close to point blank, and Sol would be in overload range.  Miniature rules might be different, or I could be reading from an obsolete edition of SFB.

The warp factor scale from TOS is exponents of c, thus warp 1 is c, and warp 4 is 16c.  The maximum speed ships can engage each other is somewhere between warp 5 and 6.  Note that the scale has changed in TNG where warp 10 is infinite speed.

SFB also has rules for "disengagement by sublight evasion" whereby ships not equipped with a warp core may disappear under impulse power.

The makers of SFB were thinking in large scales.  EW appears in SFB as a simplified abstraction assuming all ships have similar sensor suites.

Has anyone seen a picture of the USS Enterprize (the aircraft carrier) as it appeared in the 1960's?  The superstructure was covered with antennas for EW.  The designers intended that it use those nuclear powerplants to make some serious electronic noise!

SFB game scale:  1 hex = 10,000 k
Distance to moon:  384,000 k = 38 hex
Light speed:  299,792 k/sec = 30 hex/sec

SFB scale from Commanders Rulebook c1983
(A3.4)GAME SCALE
Each hex in SFB represents an area 10,000 k across.  Movement at a speed of one hex per turn equals movement at the speed of light.  Thus, each turn represents 1/30 of a second of subjective time.  However, using relativistic variable time distortion, the time elapsed during a turn appears to the crew inside the ship to be about a minute.

Relativistic time compression is actually suposed to work the other way around, but I will chalk it up to warp drive technology?

Offline airBiscuit

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Re: Delta AV is what you are really talking about.
« Reply #46 on: August 06, 2004, 11:46:24 am »

SFB game scale:  1 hex = 10,000 k
Distance to moon:  384,000 k = 38 hex
Light speed:  299,792 k/sec = 30 hex/sec

SFB scale from Commanders Rulebook c1983
(A3.4)GAME SCALE
Each hex in SFB represents an area 10,000 k across.  Movement at a speed of one hex per turn equals movement at the speed of light.  Thus, each turn represents 1/30 of a second of subjective time.  However, using relativistic variable time distortion, the time elapsed during a turn appears to the crew inside the ship to be about a minute.

Relativistic time compression is actually suposed to work the other way around, but I will chalk it up to warp drive technology?

It's quite a stretch isn't it?  Well, we would definitely have to chalk it up to warp technology, and it does take care of the issues with scaling and time on the gameboard.  It may be this 'time-compression' of warp drive that helps to counter 'time-dilation' effects of approaching and crossing the light speed barrier.  It also means that extended travel at warp could result in accelerated aging versus folks back at Starfleet HQ. The 'twin-paradox' taken the other direction.  It would seem to make operations at such high speeds more manageable as well, since anything you observe on your sensors outside the warp bubble not also going at warp would seem to move in slow-motion, thereby making weapon tracking that much easier.