Topic: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made

[NannerSlug]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerly hope so.

Whether it is lack of acceptence of people with differing opinions - or acknolwedgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

[Sirgod]

I know quite a few of us that Play both games, and I for one, Have no Problem Playing both. As for One game to be More community based then another, I don't see It.

I think SFC3 has seen a few Bad sports in the player base, But think about It, so did EAW and OP when It came out. Personaly, I just like the fun that both games offer. are they Different in style? Sure, Does that mean we should be angry at each other because someone likes a differant style of Play? Heck no.

Without arguing the points on either game, I do See us as a Community here, Hell, a Family. The whole arguement of This forum supprting one game over the other is Hyperbola at best, and an outright Lie at worst.

Both platforms are alot of fun, we have people that support both, and I like To play both.

Of course, that's just my opinion, which doesn't amount to a hill of beans, But For theose who want to have two different camps Do It on your own boards. Nanner is 100% correct about the differance of opinions, But I for one feel very welcome in both camps. I think we should do what we can to welcome Legitimate Players of both camps into our lil' Home here.

If we have somehow Marginalized either of the camps, then we need to look and see what we did wrong.

Stephen

[FPF-DieHard]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

No, you are citizens of a seperate community.   We are not one community, these are 2 seperate games with a few over-lapping players.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

SFC3 is a different game.   Most OPers don't play it.   We really don't care.  it is that simple, it is like asking us to give a fluck about a halflife mod that we do not play.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerly hope so.

We will survive better as sperate communities.   This friction is based on an illusion that we are one.

OPers don't care about SFC3.  It doesn't matter one way or the other to us.  SFC3ers seem to be upset about this.  WTF do you want us to do?  Play a game that bores us?  90% of us own SFC3 and don't like it.

OPers honestly do not care if SFC3ers care about us or not.   We have accepted it is a different game and beyond that, we do not care.

Whether it is lack of acceptence of people with differing opinions - or acknolwedgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

No, we need to get our heads of of the sand.  OPers for the most part do not care about SFC3 and never will.  Why does that bother you?  It is simply a different game, no better, no worse..

[KBF-Nail]

<Forces Words Out of Mouth> Have <the pain> to agree with <word almost there> Die HArd!!!


Whew that was tough.

[Sirgod]

The thing is Gentlemen, is that This sight has taken up the Banner that Taldren left, and in doing so Supports both Camps. Personaly, I'd like to see everyone get along, and If you don't like one game don't play It. If you like both games play them both.

heck I'm going back to hot topics where things are safe politicly. 

Stephen

[FPF-DieHard]

The thing is Gentlemen, is that This sight has taken up the Banner that Taldren left, and in doing so Supports both Camps. Personaly, I'd like to see everyone get along, and If you don't like one game don't play It. If you like both games play them both.

heck I'm going back to hot topics where things are safe politicly. 

Stephen

There is nothing worng with supporting both camps, just stop trying to shove 2 square-pegs into a round-hole.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerly hope so.

Whether it is lack of acceptence of people with differing opinions - or acknolwedgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

Nanner, I agree with you on this issue ... But it seems impossible to do. There are two sides of this community and the rift is widening.

The Dyna Admins group fell apart ... We can't police ourselves, apparently.

I like both, but concentrate efforts on SFC3, as do you.

I gotta side, however, with Hangnail on this issue. I think it would be better just to segregate the D-3 to the "back of the bus." Maybe we should take off the Rose-colored glasses and face the reality.

I don't see the so-called community leaders doing it -- I see them making the rift wider with rhetoric.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

[Crusader]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerely hope so.

Whether it is lack of acceptance of people with differing opinions - or acknowledgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

What do you mean by "grow up".  SFC3 fans tend to be much younger i.e. teens and early 20's, while SFC OP and EAW fans are older and more mature.....maybe late 20's to early 40's.

As far as bringing the SFC3 fans and earlier game fans together...that is probably impractical.  Perhaps an "all eras" game could do that.....IF it gave us the gameplay of SFC OP and earlier but expanded that to all eras.  The gameplay of SFC3 is boring by comparison.

The problem is that SFC3 and the previous games have very little in common.  When Activision made SFC3 it's like they made a totally different game.  They should have called it something other than SFC.  It's just not the same game.  It's no wonder there are two separate communities.  I don't see how you can merge these two communities....they're like Apples and Oranges compared to each other.

I don't think there is a survival problem.  This community has lasted much longer than almost every other game community I've seen.  Most of the one's who have left are SFC3 folks that really don't feel the same loyalty to the game that the SFB fans have to the earlier games.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

The average age of Unity gamers -- per a poll up -- is 30+.

I believe your statement to be a generalization not based on fact.

<S>

AdmwaterTiger

[Crusader]

The average age of Unity gamers -- per a poll up -- is 30+.

I believe your statement to be a generalization not based on fact.

<S>

AdmwaterTiger

Earlier polls when SFC3 came out showed younger results.  Perhaps the youngest have moved on to other games now leaving mostly older players.  Young folks don't stick with the same game for long.  Short attention spans.

I may not have hard data....who does?  But I'm willing to bet the ones playing OP right now are mostly SFB fans who tend to be older than those playing SFC3.

Anyway, back on topic.

[Bonk]

I basically agree with DieHard also, BUT: there is no reason we all can't get along - sharing models, ideas, server tips, or even recipies on this forum. We've beaten the dead horse of the differences in the game to a bloody pulp of horseburger, no need to go there anymore. I think we should accept our differences and be civil to each other here and share what we can to maximise the fun for all. (kind of like real-life eh? - though a friend of mine argues that this is part of our real lives and I tend to agree, we should simply apply the golden rule here just as we do our best to do so in the rest of our non-SFC lives...)

[Wildcard]

I think we need a Group HUG with a scatterpack in the middle. rofl

[Bonk]

Funny you should say "scatterpack"...

[kortez]

I gotta side, however, with Hangnail on this issue. I think it would be better just to segregate the D-3 to the "back of the bus." Maybe we should take off the Rose-colored glasses and face the reality.

I don't see the so-called community leaders doing it -- I see them making the rift wider with rhetoric.

The victim role is a tricky one to play.  It does better when one is not a community leader himself, allied with a player in the field, STGD, and not involved in what could be termed as a symptom of the problem, misdirection and looking for sympathy.

The point of fact is since you are a leader in the community you have to help make things work together.  It does not good to voice innuendo on your own forum, or threats of legal action, flames elsewhere, and to come and push even here.  If we're to pull together we have to, well, pull together, not take pot shots at what is considered an appropriate time.  For example, a number on a fleet is nothing, just a label.  Make the fleet lead by example, and make that example positive and supportive, a nurturing type behavior.  That will help keep our current player base and motivate them to work together.  There should never be an adversarial atmosphere, and pretense stands revealed because the community is comprised of intelligent perceptive people.

Now that goes for all people and fleets.  The DAC fell apart due to politics, threats, laid out to Day in SSCF, and a rapid withdrawal by a few fleets in conjunction with an illegal posting of a post taken totally out of context, one which was made to show how things can be blown out of proportion if we're not careful.  How ironic.

These things need to stop.  Hell, I've been saying this for months now.

I'd appreciate an acknowledgement of this need by everyone concerned.  Once this obstacle has been cleared we can concentrate on making great mods and making sure they all are scheduled in a way to maintain primary interest and activity.

Tit for tat has to stop, NOW!

[likkerpig]

I agree with Die Hard.
Flirted with SFC3, not my thing. Don't care what SFC3 players do. (although the flame wars are entertaining)
Don't see what your point is Nanner. Where are the SFC3'ers getting the short end?

[Cleaven]

Just wanted to say to Nannerslug that I fully agree with part of a statement in that "other thread" that SFC:TNG is the best cannon TNG game out there. It does have a lot of good features for a trek star ship game. I have dug it out and reinstalled it each time a patch has come out and played it for a while just to be sure of how the game plays. As far as games go it was/is good. I did not get ripped off in any way with it's purchase.

BUT there is one thing that drives me away each time, after my initial installation enthusiasm leaves me, and that is the angular velocity thing. Take it out (no - don't even put in SFC's EW instead), just take it out and get rid of the dog fighting aspect of the game and you will get rid of that undelying repulsive force that the game has for me. Personally that one thing (AV) ruins it for me, and all the other good TNG game stuff can't overcome the build up of negative energy about that silly angular velocity and dog fighting.

On the other side I have problems with the D2 and the way it works, or more correctly doesn't work, but those D2 mechanics are not as repulsive to me, such that I can put up with it for the SFC2 style of game combat. Essentially the mechanics of OP are not the best but they don't repel me in the same way as AV does.

Anyway TNG (patched) is a better than okay game but it has one thing which eventually drives me away from it each time I play, and that is a personal preference.

[NannerSlug]

only point is that instead of picking apart the pros and cons - that this forum needs to bring fans of both games together in a common cause.

its okay for people to like 2 or 3 for what they do - but both games (and fans of each games) should be respected and treated on the same level. instead of making sfc3 fans unwelcome - i hope that everyone can feel welcome.

no one should try to convert anyone to anything - just start treating everyone on the same level. its okay to have different opinions.

finally, cleaven, you should really try some mods. whether its fluf's mod, battlezone, or my generations at war mod - its a completely different game..

for

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Kortez,

As you know I have pledged to try to make things work. I (hate using that personal pronoun all the time) asked for this months ago on Taldren.

I see the D-3 community segregating since the exit of KoraH last November. We have forums up everywhere and moderators for both major forums for SFC3 have been accused of playing favorites. I realize you do your best here, Kortez, but it still comes through, admittedly.

KoraH and ThePelican were the glue that held the D-3 together. Nanner hadn't even  come to the scene then with GAW and it was still in the making ... This rift began with the V525 testers version and hasn't stopped since.

Much of the "tit-for-tat" you speak of is one person or another defending themselves against the attacks from other members of the so-called "community." We have all participated in it at one time or another.

I think Emperian put it well the other day (paraphrase) ... We are eating ourselves alive.

I have said for many moons that the "Alpha Male Syndrom" is at work here ...

Maybe that's why we loved Ann so much. She kept us balanced and seeing things in a proper perspective. She always made it feel like home.

Now we have 6 (maybe 7 with Border Wars) solid mods on the street for SFC3 and the D-3 community huddles in their own corners and plays their OWN mod.

Unity was never meant to be that way, and neither was any other mod. I took a step forward as lead admin for Unity and lifted server and forum bans (except for a handful) only to be told that "WT has done this before" and will never change.

It's the classic Catch 22; damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Nanner went through a similar confrontation on his GAW server with ironically the same group of pilots. When they came to our forums to spew trash, we locked the threads and banned the participants.

Kane sits here and babbles about disrespect even last night in the SFC Community TS ... when I think what some expected was an outburst by me, found a calm voice trying to talk some sense. I was even threatened with a ban from TS and was told I -- and other 11th admirals -- were not welcome by 9th members who had SA status. Those in the meeting know I disrespected no one, but only sought to help solve this problem of the dual fleets by urging the 11thFleet Rangers to respect the longstanding -11thFleet- Spartan Vanguard.

It could easily be solved by simply changing their name to the 11th Rangers and skip the 11thFleet portion of the name.

Have you seen Vic's statement on STGD today? He was there: http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/

Our executive admiral was in a bad mood and rightly so, so perhaps he was a little short tempered. He had just come home from a house fire where a little girl was burned critically. She ran into his arms, seered through the lungs and coughing. She might not be alive today. THAT is real life. It makes d.net and STGD, 9th, 11th and all this rather trivial.

We all huddle with our allies and friends and draw conclusions based on hearsay and innuendo.

I met with IslandBound last night and we worked out a rotation that seemed to make sense ... At least the people who don't hate eachothers guts can rotate 4 servers and fill them up a little.

Did you know I was banned from BattleZone but had never participated in the campaign? Guess why? One word: Kane.

Just some random thoughts ... more later.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

[Cleaven]

finally, cleaven, you should really try some mods. whether its fluf's mod, battlezone, or my generations at war mod - its a completely different game..

for

But they all use angular velocity. If you could mod out AV I'd play it for more than a week or so at a time.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

whether its fluf's mod, battlezone, or my generations at war mod - its a completely different game..

============

And there you have it, Nanner. You just created a bad impression yourself.

When I mention mods as a whole for the D-3, I try to mention them all in public posts that refer to the D-3 as a community.

You missed a few not supported by BattleClinic.

IslandWars, Unity, Near Distant Future and Border Wars -- not to mention Alternate Universe A/B.

*sigh*

Does that answer your original questions about rifts Nanner? It's not just the split in the OP/SFC3 crowd, but the split in the SFC3 player base that you have helped widen.

<S>

AdmwaterTiger-11thFleet