Topic: Community Gap - sfc2/3 a bridge that needs to be made

[FPF-DieHard]

I didn't know twat was a racial term. Or are you standing up for all the oppressed castles in the stars?
Thanks for the entertainment!

I'm staying away from those four-letter buzz words, Likker. I'm not risking my account. Having too much fun debating morality with the KBF and FPF.

You want to debate morals with me?   I don't have any

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

And Cleavan, I haven't forgotten about your OP angular velocity question, I just gotta get patched -- again. Seems I just patched with 3.2 last week and now I gotta find another load.

Gimmie a minute; headed to Firesouls site in this mess of Trek links.

<S>

You don't need the modded shiplist to evaluate the games mechanics. It works the same way with any shiplist. Just patch the stock game to 2.5.5.2

I know that, silly bear ... I have it on my F drive and for some reason it is asking me for my keycode again. I have to find the disc under my bed. I just figured while I was at it, might as well put it on the C drive and and fly a few in GSA. It was embarrasing to go in there tonight and see old faces and not be properly patched.

<S>

[Rod ONeal]

OMG!!!!! Angular velocity in OP??? Let me save you a whole lot of time; It doesn't exist! No way, no how, no where! Hit % in SFC2 is based soley on lockon. ie: range and EW.

[likkerpig]

And yes, for the oppressed castles in the stars ...

A dreamer-realist, gone Carrie who met the Exorcist lovechild on a street corner. All that blood in the gymnasium made me ill and rather jaded.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-

I've read that a dozen times.... wow!
Is that Colonel Kurtz or Charlie Manson you are quoting?
Wish I had some 'cid, could be of mind with ya.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

OMG!!!!! Angular velocity in OP??? Let me save you a whole lot of time; It doesn't exist! No way, no how, no where! Hit % in SFC2 is based soley on lockon. ie: range and EW.

I know it doesn't exist in OP.

I'm trying to find a way for the man with the big moldy head to understand this ...

Ok, bear with me.

You've seen -shift and +shift, right?

OK, Cleavan, try thinking of AV as shift ... as the function serves a similar purpose when firing for accuracy.

I know that is the cheap way out, here. But I had to get a rise for the crowd.

Just mold that big brain of yours Cleavan and make it think shift = AV.

"I think I can, I think I can"

And Likker, that was 'The Little Engine That Could."

Dude, you and I are dangerous together ... what a team, Likker.

I can see the road trip revival in the stars now.

WOODSTOCK RETURNS

<S>

   

[KBF-Nail]

This needs to be addressed. I know that there are plans within D.Net to address this issue - but this is really a community wide discussion that needs to happen. For the longest time those who play sfc3 are considered second tier citizens in this community.

this is not just my feelings, but the feelings of many. If it ain't sfb, its unwelcome.

It is my hope that with taldren gone that we can grow up a little and band together if *any* sort of community is to survive. The question is - do people want this? I sincerly hope so.




Whether it is lack of acceptence of people with differing opinions - or acknolwedgement of the work done with sfc3 mods - i believe that we need to bring everyone together.

Nanner, I agree with you on this issue ... But it seems impossible to do. There are two sides of this community and the rift is widening.

The Dyna Admins group fell apart ... We can't police ourselves, apparently.

I like both, but concentrate efforts on SFC3, as do you.

I gotta side, however, with Hangnail on this issue. I think it would be better just to segregate the D-3 to the "back of the bus." Maybe we should take off the Rose-colored glasses and face the reality.

I don't see the so-called community leaders doing it -- I see them making the rift wider with rhetoric.

<S>

AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-


When did i say this ? " it would be better just to segregate the D-3 to the "back of the bus."


 

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Sorry Nail. Not you. I had my acronyms KBF and FBF messed up. Don't sue. My apologies.

Copyright notices:

Star Trek, Star Fleet Command, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Star Trek: The Next Generation, Star Trek: Voyager
(and the various logo devices used in them) are copyright Paramount Pictures, as are the
characters, related images, and sound from the productions.


Likker ...

"Just another brick in the wall" -- Pink Floyd.

[likkerpig]

Good god. There is someone almost as warped as me.
WT, go get yourself a sex change, win a lottery and I'll marry ya!
You start to plump up though and yer arse is on the curb.
Oh, when you are talking to the doc... big boobies!


Why am I envisioning a trans-gender version of "Natural Born Killers"?


Hmm, time to bic my head again...

[Nicola_Venra]

Well, reading through some threads and this one it seems that the hopes of bridgeing the gap just cant happen.  The majority of the folks in here do seem to support SFC 2:OP and have little to no regard for the future of Starfleet Command 3 and when confronted with the premise that Nanner said of trying to bridge the gap they come up with ways of not doing it.

Did ANY of you actually spare the time to REALLY read what Paramount's Harry Lang was saying?

The worry of the SFC community shouldnt be what is happening in the small SFC Series community, it should be whats just round the corner regarding the future of trek gaming.  What will it look like when a new game is released and the community sites still have links going to SFC games, they come in here and see a general attitude of "go away, you do not play SFC 2:OP and you do not like SFB".  Fleets who want to partake in games dont really worry about the flames, they just flame back, part and parcel of fleet gaming, whats holding a lot of them back is what Nanner touches on to an extent.  The feeling that SFC 2 players look down there noses on SFC 3 and what the game itself stands for.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Good god. There is someone almost as warped as me.
WT, go get yourself a sex change, win a lottery and I'll marry ya!
You start to plump up though and yer arse is on the curb.
Oh, when you are talking to the doc... big boobies!


Why am I envisioning a trans-gender version of "Natural Born Killers"?


Hmm, time to bic my head again...

Close, but no cigar, Likker.

Actually, "TopGun" with trans-gender changes ...

Ever choked on a hairball? I hate it when I lick my fur and just the white one's get stuck in my throat. Tigers do that a lot.

But Likker ... if we did get married, we would have to get separate ISP's and routers for cookies. Between your site bans and my site bans, we would be seeing white screens a lot.

<S>

[Cleaven]

OMG!!!!! Angular velocity in OP??? Let me save you a whole lot of time; It doesn't exist! No way, no how, no where! Hit % in SFC2 is based soley on lockon. ie: range and EW.

I know it doesn't exist in OP.

I'm trying to find a way for the man with the big moldy head to understand this ...

Ok, bear with me.

You've seen -shift and +shift, right?

OK, Cleavan, try thinking of AV as shift ... as the function serves a similar purpose when firing for accuracy.

I know that is the cheap way out, here. But I had to get a rise for the crowd.

Just mold that big brain of yours Cleavan and make it think shift = AV.

"I think I can, I think I can"

And Likker, that was 'The Little Engine That Could."

Dude, you and I are dangerous together ... what a team, Likker.

I can see the road trip revival in the stars now.

WOODSTOCK RETURNS

<S>

So you've given up on the idea of OP having AV effects. Very commendable. I don't know why you had to say it in the first place.

And the attack shifts in OP have a very different effect in the game when compared to the angular velocity modifier seen in SFC:TNG. One leads to a game of Snoopy Vs The Red Baron, and the other leads to a different set of tactics more appropriate to large ships in space. Just take out the AV, force it to zero permanently and you will get rid of the WW1 fighter sim where angular velocity is a targetting factor, and come back into the realm of starships. 

[Age]

only point is that instead of picking apart the pros and cons - that this forum needs to bring fans of both games together in a common cause.

What Common cause?  This is no spoon.

The continued growth and expansion of the Star Trek gaming community

I think that might be part of the issue. Some people think that the people here are here for Star Trek <play the music now>, but that is not the case. Many people are here simply because they bought a game that was a lot of fun to play. Others are here because they are a subset of that group because they bought a game based on SFB that was fun to play.

Unfortunately people who like good games are not necessarily star trek fans and vice versa. In fact to look at the history of Star Trek games, one could logically conclude that good games and Star Trek are not usually associated at all. Image the surprise of all concerned when the two groups find themselves in the same place. So I think it would be wrong to think that Star Trek is a unifying thing, when to some it is a distraction

I will say it again there some elements of SFB in SFC2OP not 100% of it based on SFB.That is what is said on your screen when it is loaded up please look.I would say that is possibly fear driven that SFC3 is a much faster driven game and most who play it are young and are mostly in Europe where Star Trek is thriving.There are clubs over there in North America clubs have died out.This the way Star trek is headed in terms of gaming imho.The way I intend to play when I am all set to play on line is share my time in D2 and D3.I will play DomWars in D3 and it depends on what the server is like in D2.I heard LB5 was a boring I would been on the lastest D3 server for that.I have been around the D2 community for awhile and  you guys are great bunch of guys but so are D3ers when I am over at the Tri Mods boards.They are very helpful and they don't joke at my postings about tactics.The thing is Cleaven is I rely on my Tactical Officer instead of the AV.I always get a better Engineer first to tweak up those Warp Core and Impulse Engines.I can't wait untill they have white skins on this board.This white on black is a strian on my eyes.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Just take out the AV, force it to zero permanently and you will get rid of the WW1 fighter sim where angular velocity is a targetting factor, and come back into the realm of starships

Well, I believe this would require source code and .exe changes -- but i might be wrong (I often am).

I'm not even going close to anything that says "code" in modding the game, but I promise you I will look into it. If it can be done without monkeying with code, I will do it.

I always liked that guy with the big brain on TNG Trek. I felt sorry for him. He was sooo smart and sooo technical, but so emotionless. He forgot to have fun!

============

'All Your Trek Belongs to Us"

============



(firmly) Spock: "When I said 'undress', I meant take EVERYTHING off!"

Kirk ("timidly"): "Even my boots?"

[pause. Kirk and Spock exchange a long look]

Spock: "Well, all right, you may leave the boots on."

Kirk (whining): "Is all this really necessary? It's kind of humiliating. Can't you just take my temperature, check my pulse, things like that?"

Spock ("seriously"): "No, my orders are quite clear. I am to thoroughly examine every square centimeter of your body for evidence of bug bites, and test your reflexes to be sure you have not been adversely effected by your exposure to the alien environment, bites or no."

Kirk (sweetly): "I'd feel better if you'd undress too."

[another pause. Another long look]

Spock: "Well, all right, if it will help you to feel less vulnerable."

Kirk: "I never even heard of this stupid disease you are checking for. Hey! Wait a minute! Where's your doctor's license!? How do I know you even are a real doctor!? HEY! What is that!? That's no medical instrument! MY GOD WHAT DID YOU JUST STICK INTO ME!?"

Spock (reassuringly): "Relax, everything is all right..."

Kirk ("infuriated") : "Relax!? RELAX? You stick God knows what into my a$$ without even a 'Hi, how ya doin'?' and you expect me to just Relax!?"

[likkerpig]

Well, reading through some threads and this one it seems that the hopes of bridgeing the gap just cant happen.  The majority of the folks in here do seem to support SFC 2:OP and have little to no regard for the future of Starfleet Command 3 and when confronted with the premise that Nanner said of trying to bridge the gap they come up with ways of not doing it.

Did ANY of you actually spare the time to REALLY read what Paramount's Harry Lang was saying?

The worry of the SFC community shouldnt be what is happening in the small SFC Series community, it should be whats just round the corner regarding the future of trek gaming.  What will it look like when a new game is released and the community sites still have links going to SFC games, they come in here and see a general attitude of "go away, you do not play SFC 2:OP and you do not like SFB".  Fleets who want to partake in games dont really worry about the flames, they just flame back, part and parcel of fleet gaming, whats holding a lot of them back is what Nanner touches on to an extent.  The feeling that SFC 2 players look down there noses on SFC 3 and what the game itself stands for.

Ok, I am missing the point somewhere here.
This negative attitude the SFC3 players get from the OP players... I honestly haven't seen it on this forum. Maybe I missed something but the only time I have heard it mentioned is from yourself, Nannerslug and Watertiger.
I don't know who Harry Lang is, nor do I know what he said.
As was mentioned several times before, a lot of the OP players are still there because it is based on SFB.
Myself, I am not a trekkie or trekker... I only played SFB a couple times. The trek universe has no appeal to me, I play OP because I really enjoy the game and the people I play with. I don't play games because they are trek or star wars or whatever, I play them because I enjoy them.
What is it you people calling for "community bonding" want from the people who play OP? That is the question I have. Maybe I am just dim, but I don't know what you all want, and was happily oblivious to any schism in a community I didn't know existed.
My questions and 0.02$

[Cleaven]

I will say it again there some elements of SFB in SFC2OP not 100% of it based on SFB.That is what is said on your screen when it is loaded up please look.I would say that is possibly fear driven that SFC3 is a much faster driven game and most who play it are young and are mostly in Europe where Star Trek is thriving.There are clubs over there in North America clubs have died out.This the way Star trek is headed in terms of gaming imho.The way I intend to play when I am all set to play on line is share my time in D2 and D3.I will play DomWars in D3 and it depends on what the server is like in D2.I heard LB5 was a boring I would been on the lastest D3 server for that.I have been around the D2 community for awhile and  you guys are great bunch of guys but so are D3ers when I am over at the Tri Mods boards.They are very helpful and they don't joke at my postings about tactics.The thing is Cleaven is I rely on my Tactical Officer instead of the AV.I always get a better Engineer first to tweak up those Warp Core and Impulse Engines.I can't wait untill they have white skins on this board.This white on black is a strian on my eyes.

<Bangs head on keyboard to make the pain behind the eyes go away>

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Likker,

I think I got it after listening a lot to Cleavan today ...

It really is a timewarp thing with OP/EAW and SFC3 ...

A lot of the anger comes from the time the so-called Taldrenites who spend on fixing the darned Orion Pirates -- whose player base is suck beans compared to what is left in SFC3. Look back on old threads, the past arguments (not with me). That anger stems from the first day we bought this game and made the move.

I made that shift as Renegade Demon squad leader for 14g. I crossed the line and didn't look back. It was the drive to bring this game to levels of balance and playability and ship additions and "stuff" that kept me personally going. Sooo much work was never done. We have always felt second fiddle. Even after the V534 patch, the game lacks the balance race to race that were the basics of the game. Just fundamental "stuff." The modders fix that and tweak and try to live with what we got to work with with apparently no assistance form the Taldren powerbase that links everything under the sun for OP, but ignores the SFC3 crowd in comparison.

It's a snob attitude from the OP groupies who knock the work as we do it. They thumb their noses at us. I have tried to foster interest in bringing OP/EAw ships to SFC3 ports.

The mechanics of the game -- being built on the same base source code of OP -- are similar, but you can't get the SFB purists to even dig in to find it.

Before I attempted to delete my account from these forums last time, I asked a question that nobody answered (they deleted the delete key, btw so I am forced to camp here with Likkerpig).

Does anyone remember what MagnumMan said? It is still pertinant to this debate.

<S>

[Rod ONeal]

Well, reading through some threads and this one it seems that the hopes of bridgeing the gap just cant happen.  The majority of the folks in here do seem to support SFC 2:OP and have little to no regard for the future of Starfleet Command 3 and when confronted with the premise that Nanner said of trying to bridge the gap they come up with ways of not doing it.

Did ANY of you actually spare the time to REALLY read what Paramount's Harry Lang was saying?

The worry of the SFC community shouldnt be what is happening in the small SFC Series community, it should be whats just round the corner regarding the future of trek gaming.  What will it look like when a new game is released and the community sites still have links going to SFC games, they come in here and see a general attitude of "go away, you do not play SFC 2:OP and you do not like SFB".  Fleets who want to partake in games dont really worry about the flames, they just flame back, part and parcel of fleet gaming, whats holding a lot of them back is what Nanner touches on to an extent.  The feeling that SFC 2 players look down there noses on SFC 3 and what the game itself stands for.

OK, why is this so hard to understand? WE DON'T LIKE SFC3. Freakin ehh!!! Get over it and move on, please.

[Cleaven]

Likker,

I think I got it after listening a lot to Cleavan today ...

It really is a timewarp thing with OP/EAW and SFC3 ...

A lot of the anger comes from the time the so-called Taldrenites who spend on fixing the darned Orion Pirates -- whose player base is suck beans compared to what is left in SFC3. Look back on old threads, the past arguments (not with me). That anger stems from the first day we bought this game and made the move.

I made that shift as Renegade Demon squad leader for 14g. I crossed the line and didn't look back. It was the drive to bring this game to levels of balance and playability and ship additions and "stuff" that kept me personally going.

It's a snob attitude from the OP groupies who knock the work as we do it. They thumb their noses at us. I have tried to foster interest in bringing OP/EAw ships to SFC3 ports.

The mechanics of the game -- being built on the same base source code of OP -- are similar, but you can't get the SFB purists to even dig in to find it.

Before I attempted to delete my account from these forums last time, I asked a question that nobody answered (they deleted the delete key, btw so I am forced to camp here with Likkerpig).

Does anyone remember what MagnumMan said? It is still pertinant to this debate.

<S>

No you haven't got it. The mechanics are totally different to me because of that one thing. Angular velocity. Take out the AV factor, set it permanently to zero and I won't get that repulsion effect that builds after a few days of playing Snoopy Vs the Red Baron. don't add anything from OP, just take out that one thing and I will be able to make the most out of the rest of what is a good TNG game.

As for the people who just want to play SFB, why do you even think they should play TNG? Just because you say so? Really, if I don't like Warcraft Three because it has elves in it, why can't I keep playing Starcraft? 

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

OK, why is this so hard to understand? WE DON'T LIKE SFC3. Freakin ehh!!! Get over it and move on, please.

Bingo!!!!

WHO IS WE? I asked that yesterday@!!

THAT is the issue. This is a damned community board, sir, and WE is all the starships in TracyG's thread who landed here TOGETHER -- all games from Taldren.

I'm going to the back of the bus now ... this makes me sick!

<S>

AdmwaterTiger-11thFleet

[Cleaven]

OK, why is this so hard to understand? WE DON'T LIKE SFC3. Freakin ehh!!! Get over it and move on, please.

Bingo!!!!

WHO IS WE? I asked that yesterday@!!

THAT is the issue. This is a damned community board, sir, and WE is all the starships in TracyG's thread who landed here TOGETHER -- all games from Taldren.

I'm going to the back of the bus now ... this makes me sick!

<S>

AdmwaterTiger-11thFleet

I don't know why it is so hard to understand the answer to your question. "We" is all of those people who play SFC2 but not SFC:TNG because they don't like playing SFC:TNG. I fall into this category.