Topic: A new idea towards "Racial Flavor"

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Could we perhaps make racial flavor a part of a server setup?

This is kinda on the fly so definately open to suggestions, please feel free to debate or add on.

#1 The Map

Make a map that reflected the nature of the Empires.  I would see it as

Federation

Sprawling due to economic expansion, lots of planets some more developed than others.  Sections of neutral space with planets inside exterior borders, representing races within the Federation perimeter but electing not to join in the case of higer econ worlds, or simply protected by the prime directive in the case of more primitive low econ worlds. 

Some planets with DVs maxed or near maxed at start reflecting military centers or warrior-like cultures (such as Andor)  others at only a fraction of potential DV at start due to peaceful cultures (like Vulcan)

Hexes between planets and bases would be of lower DV due to freedoms allowed to member races.

Klingon

Sprawling to a degree but the need to maintain control over subject races and over ambitious Houses by the Chancellor keeping the sprawl in check.  No gaps in interior due to militaristic culture. 

Most Planets maxed in DVs Some with high DVs like Quonos and Klingzai and with high values , and others maxed but with limited DV maximums due to subject races willingness to revolt against an abrasive Klingon Yolk.

Hexes between planets would be higher than the norm, due to rigourous patrolling.

Kzinti

Sprawling as the Hegemony is always looking to conquer, with many planets.

The planet starting DVs on the low side as the Kzin tend to co-op their conquered races into their society and allow a great amount of freedom with limited policing (at least thats what I get from Niven's writings). 

The maximum DVs of the worlds would vary depending on their importance. 

Space between planets would also be of lower DV than found among many other races but the overall extent of Kzin space would be largish

Romulan

Few Planets and not much total area, due to the scarcity of planets on that side of space. 

Planet DVs high maximum potential and high starting values due to military society with a strong central authority and few if any subject races.  Planets would also be of high economic value at the core.  The periphery would be lesser developed as the Romulans came late to warp power.

Hexes between planets would be very strong around the central core and weaker towards the periphery with the exception of the few hexes along the federation neutral zone and along the narrow area of space bordering the Klingon Empire.

Gorn

Again few planets.  The planets in the core with lower starting DVs than the Romulans due to a more peaceful culture but with high potential maximums.

Worlds towards the periphery of higher starting values due to Gorn protective nature of their territory, but with lower maximum potentials due to a smaller navy and the lack of extensive  economic development in these colonies.

Hexes between planets of medium strength due to peaceful nature off set by protectiveness.  Stronger in the very core and on the outside periphery of Gorn influence and weaker in the middle.

Lyrans

Fewer Planets than Klingons and Kzinti, but of High Starting Dvs and High potential maximums, More centralized and taking up less space overall. Planets of High economic Value due to advanced technology.   Borders more even with only 1 signifigant expansion arm terminating in the LDR area.

Space between planets of high DV reflecting a warrior society and the need for the Ruler to keep an eye on the Duchies. Weaker towards LDR space due to growing move towards independence.

Hydrans

Few Planets but of high economic and defensive value.  Only 1 major expansion arm leading back to "Old Colonies".  The defensive position of the Hydrans would preclude other expansions.  Planet DVs high at start due to external threats.

Hexes between Hydran planets of High DV due to fear of invasion, but weaker toward old colonies area due to a limited contact with these colonies.

ISC

A few Highly developed worlds with several expansion arms with few planets and of small economy.  Lesser powers that had their local disputes with their neighbors turn into cause for pacification.  Starting DVs high as the ISC is here for a reason but maximums low due to their relatively recent arrival and lacking time to construct strong defensive positions and strong economies.

 Spaces between hexes strong due to constant patrolling.

#2 The Rules/VCs


Other rules migh be made around this type of setup.  For instance the Federation couldn't violate the Prime Directive and seize the planets within their borders without taking a VC penalty unless said planet was occupied by enemy forces first.  If one of these planets was taken by an enemy during one VC round, however the Federation might claim a bonus VC for liberating it at conclusion of next round as they will have brought another world into the Federation fold.

Gorn migh be assigned VCs for preserving their border integrity, and Romulans might get VCs for taking new worlds for their planet scarce empire.  Such "racial flavor" might make for an interesting campaign.

Comments?  Suggestions?

[Vaul]

I like

As regards the Prime Directive, perhaps say that worlds under a certain economy value are deemed to be pre-warp and thus can't be taken by the Feds?




EDIT: After a bit of mucking about with the map editor.....


General rules

Starting Hex values:
Federation internal Hex: Econ 15, Strength 5.
Federation Border Hex: Econ 15, Strength 10.

Romulan Internal Hex: Econ 10, Strength 15
Romulan Border Hex: Econ 5, Strength 20. (Yes, the Rommies are paranoid)

Klingon Internal Hex: Econ 10, Strength 12
Klingon Border Hex: Econ 10, Strength 15.

Neutral Hex: Econ 5, Strength 5.


Terrain effects:
Black Holes, Nebulae: Economy set to 0, Strength set to 5. Usually neutral, since there's nothing of much value and nobody wants them.
Asteroid belts: Economy-5 on base ownership. (Loss of normal trade, but there's duranium in them thar rocks...)

STARBASES give +5 Economy and +10 Strength to a hex.

COLONY WORLDS give +10 Economy and +10 Strength.

PRE-WARP planets have no effect on their hex.

HOMEWORLDS give +50 Security and +55 Economy. Romulus, Earth, Vulcan and Quo'nos are considered homeworlds.


Miscellaneous effects:

Prime Directive: NEUTRAL planets with an Economy of 5 or less are deemed to be "pre-warp" and are thus protected by the Prime Directive. The Federation (and, by extension, any allies) are not allowed to enter such a hex until another faction takes control of the hex. Once that happens, the planet is fair game for anyone.

SHERMAN'S PLANET: A Colony World just on the Fed side of the Fed/Klink border, Sherman's planet was awarded to the UFP by the Organians after a well-publicised incident involving an (allegedly) rogue Klingon agent, 10,000 metric tons of quadrotiticale and 1,771,651 Tribbles. The Klingons have been trying to get the planet ever since. In game terms, both the UFP and the Klingons can claim a VP bonus for holding the planet.

[Ravok]

It definitely is more realistic.
I like it as well.

[Lepton]

The overall concept seems fine.  I am not sure what the effect on server play is going to be by making some empires smaller than others, but it may have unintended effects.  One question I have is what is the source material for your determinations on the racial flavor of each empire's space.  For instance, your characterization of Kzin space seems, well, a tad propogandist.  As far as I know, they are a minor race and certainly would not warrant more space than any of the other minor races.  Overall, I am not sure that race leaders would agree with these race characterizations  and I don't think federation players are going to be pleased about being restricted in their actions.  It is an interesting idea though.

[Vaul]

Interestingly, given that any prewarp economy is going to be FAR smaller than even a small warp-era one (I have them as worth 5 Econ a hex and open UFP space as worth 15...but that's just my first attempt), I don't think the Prime Directive poses that much of a hassle for the Feds. Depends on where the prewarp planets are though.

[Green]

Willing to try anything.  This too.

Lepton's paranoid 'propagandist' concerns aside ... he is right that the Kzin, Gorn, Hydrans, and Lyrans being lesser races with smaller empires is correct with the SFB canon.  Unless you want to run a "what if" scenario (which could be cool), the Fed & Klinks need to stay as the major races.  Roms a lesser race - but maybe a bit bigger then the other lesser races.  The ISC either the smallest (with the greatest potential to grow) or the biggest (after having already completed their conquest).

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

Well the whole idea was to use racial flavor but to make it balanced.

The starting Economies could all be the same with my concept as well as starting overall DVs.  The races would just have different Hex haracteristics.

Such a plan also takes into consideration the capabilities of each race.  For example, Lyran space would be more compact with higher starting DVs and fortified planets.  This make for an area which is easier to defend with lower player numbers.  

The Kzin on the other hand are more spread out with weaker starting hex DVs with some low planets would account for faster Kzin mission times, requiring the Kzin to spend some time in fortifying their own space.  It would be harder to defend even having lower DV planets towards the Lyrans who suffer slow planetary assault mission times.  Yet having many planets would help the Kzin with the resupply dilema.  

Conversely the Romulans and Gorn would have fewer planets as they don't need as much constant resupply and lack of planets in the middle of their space would make it harder for a drone using race to drive on their core worlds.  Wit destructable bases it would make their core economy less vulnerable.

Each race would have its strengths and weakness under such a plan, al designed to take racial flavor into account.

Lepton, my source material was basically the Star trek universe for the Federation, Klingon, Romulans, and Gorn.  For example Gorn protectiveness was taken from their actions in the TOS episode "Arena".  The Lyrans, Hydrans, and ISC backgrounds from SFB, and the Kzinti (as mentioned earlier) from Larry Niven and other writers of the Man-Kzin wars series.

[Julin Eurthyr]

Some thoughts:

For the ISC, if going on a farily SFB cannon interpretation:

1. High economy, Fed level or larger.
2. High max DV, at least on the "border".  ISC border looks like Maginot line with lots of bases around 2269-ish
3. Low starting DVs, to let / have the ISC fortify their space till 2280 (historic launch date of Pacification)
4. Unique VCs: 

• Cannot engage in PvP outside of ISC space till the Pacification starts.  Can hex-flip Gorn / Rommie space as long as there is no player there.
• Prevent / repulse all incursions into ISC space.
• Once pacification starts, X many VCs for every Y "neutral zone" hexes held.  Server admin might need to add ISC planets throughout the neutral zones in 2280 to represent ISC base construction (or have the ISC do it themselves with non-destructable but somewhat cheap bases)

Obviously, under a semi-historic model, the ISC needs both lots of players or if being used as a 4th member of a given team, their VCs need to be large enough to counter their limited usability time.  Best used on a long server where Late era stretches 2 or 3 weeks...

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Chutt, what you have described is the StarTrek universe as Gene envisioned it to be. This however does not make for a "balanced" server as many would see it.

The Federation was supposed to be the most highly advanced technology wise (ISC not with standing) and a more highly advanced social structure allowed for "diversity" within. The humans being the most populace carried the greater role as protectors in Star Fleet.

Yes, what you have asked for here is what ST is, but for game play I don't think it would make a balanced server.

I do have a question for the server guru's though.

Is it possible to set the political settings to neutral, and allow for the tensions to rise based on the activity by the players?

Hooch

[FPF-DieHard]

I do not like this idea.  Seems like a fairly biased interpretation of racial flavor to me.

Since when does freedom equal weak?

[FPF-DieHard]

I do have a question for the server guru's though.[/b]

Is it possible to set the political settings to neutral, and allow for the tensions to rise based on the activity by the players?

Hooch

Nope, requires a DB edit.   Easy to do in SQL.

[Holocat]

I was forced to email my thoughts on this server setup.  Oh well, Chutt can put it on here if he feels like it. Hee hee... :3

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I do not like this idea.  Seems like a fairly biased interpretation of racial flavor to me.

Since when does freedom equal weak?

Hmmm....

I think you missed the point DH

The federations would have more planets than anyother power, an advantage, however they would not be on a full wartime status due to their nature of allowing civillian authorities to have a larger say.  Still under my vision they would have a total DV value equal to the other empires, just have it spread out more over a larger area.  While their entire space might be harder to defend than say the Lyrans, the loss of individual hexes would have less meaning.  This would kinda balnce out the numbers and mission times to a degree in my thinking.

As for the planets not being maxed, some would be nearly so say Andor or Tellar due to the native species being more militaristic, other planets like Vulcan would not be.  Well so what if the federation assigns some pp farmers to raise Vulcan's DV at the start of a campaign, it really does little to weaken the Federation position.  The area of neutral space and restrictions on them would be a handicap to a degree, but having more planets available for resupply on the various fronts would be a strength.  What I'm propossing is not to make the empires carbon copies of each other yet allow then to start on equal footing with unique advantages and disadvantages. YUou will notice I have my own race with weaker areas of control than the Feds although lacking the neutral sectors in the middle.  The mirak rate of mission running will have to be used a bit defensively to protect this rather than charging straight at the enemy full force as usual.  I was looking to design a map where races would have different starting situations based on their natures. 

Would it be hard to balance such things, very likely so, thats why I'm asking for imput.  The best imput is one that looks at the grand idea seeks to run with it and make modifications.  Simple statement about liking or disliking it are fine, but I see them as failing to take advantage of a new line of thought, the  debate of and exchange ideas and fully explore this possibility  is something that interest me.  I'm tired of the same old lame straight line borders that have become prevailent due to a certain lack of imagination.  The old Artic fire map makes me litterally drool.  While the player base can likely no longer support such a large scale map, some new things can be tried least we devolve into server after server of trench warfare, which while enjoyed by some, would be enough to have me exit for very long periods of time.  I dont want to fight the same battles over and over each server, I need new eexperiences, new adventures and new possibilities.

[Vaul]

Hmm...if I can figure out how to host either a map file, or an image of one, I'll knock something up based on this and the upcoming Kitty/Fed/Klink GW3 premise.