Topic: Gentlemen, I need your help. Someone is stealing my work and the name OP+.

[FireSoul]

Please go read:  http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163343831.0.html

[SSCF-Rolling]

This is not good.

What can we do?  J'inn?!!!!

Seriously, have you spoke with J'inn about it?

[FireSoul]

This is not good.

What can we do?  J'inn?!!!!

Seriously, have you spoke with J'inn about it?

I just found out about this.

[FireSoul]

I have been told it will be handled.

[SSCF-Rolling]

I have been told it will be handled.

I hope so.

I would hate to have to take the Rolling Pin over there on your behalf.... but I will if needed.

You've worked to long and hard on this and I would stand up for you.

[FireSoul]

I have been told it will be handled.

I hope so.

I would hate to have to take the Rolling Pin over there on your behalf.... but I will if needed.

You've worked to long and hard on this and I would stand up for you.

About 2 years of my time.
.. .. what can I do to prevent this from happening again? A registered copyright? How does that work? Will it cost me?

[Sirgod]

Intellectual Property Maybe? I'm not sure Bro. I'd ask a lawyer though, as The Old Taldren has a stake in this also. I believe anything posted here Become there Property, but I'm not sure what all Mods involve.

Stephen

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

Stephen is right.  Check with a lawyer and since you are a Canuck, what ever you guys call your copyright office.

They should be able to help.

Glad these guys are gonna straighten out their act.

[FireSoul]

Stephen is right.  Check with a lawyer and since you are a Canuck, what ever you guys call your copyright office.

They should be able to help.

Glad these guys are gonna straighten out their act.

I don't have the monetary ressources to be dealing with a lawyer..

[Sirgod]

I'm not sure how It works in Canada FS. But you should at least Be able to Get a Free Interview, to see If a Lawyer will take your case.

Copywrite Protection should be relativly cheap, and of course, I'm sure we would all Pitch in to help you out.

Stephen

[Rod ONeal]

I'm not a lawyer, but since what you've done is taken someone else's specs (ADB) and put them into somebody else's game (Taldren) I'm not sure what you can legally claim as yours? The name OP+ possibly, but it also has it's roots in ADB's and Taldren's games. I know that you've done a lot of work, but I believe in this instance there's no legal claims, just ethical.

I think other than asking them not to use it and to give you credit for your portion of the work, there really isn't anything that could be done. They've already agreed to this, from what I read.

[Gook]

FS I am a lawyer (in UK).

It will cost big money to copyright anything anywhere.

Then there is the problem of your infringing the copyright of ADB, Taldren, etc etc. All the ships names, the strucure of the ship/fighter list and so on. Certainly in the UK there would be little you could do.

The only thing here you would have Copyright on would probably be the name OP+.

Even if you were found to have copyright the problem is one of loss. What have you actually lost in monetary terms? Probably not a lot.

Next is enforcement, lawyers cease and desist letters, and if that does not work Court action.

Then there are multi jurisdictional issues.

Most occidental copyright laws are broadly similar, but vary indetail and remedies.

The only real thing you can do is see a local lawyer, as ahas been suggested, find one who will give a free first interview to assess the case.

Lawyers disclaimer Nothing here should be construed as a lawyer client relationship and all comments above are observations and not meant to be legal advice to be relied upon.

PS J'inn has to earn a living so it would be unfair to expect him to use his profession for free even if he had the requisite expertise.

PPS you could ask the server admins not to allow the use because of breach, and if that does not work try writing to the actual service providers.

[Dizzy]

Well, I have lost a lot in monetary terms. Check out the slavegirls dot net and dot com. They freaking stole my ideas, stole my women and now they even changed the pw so I cant get in anymore. If there is anyone in need of a lawyer for sfc related name claiming, its me.

Oh, and I just filed a copyright on STFU, cuz I want a quarter everytime someone says it.

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Well fellow Canuck, you should be able to get a consult with a lawyer for 50 to $100, but if things are that tight, how about legal aid? How about a pen pal link for us to donate  a couple of bucks to for a legal fund? 

[KAT J'inn]

Oye!

Before you yank open your wallet.

1) Call the U.S. Copyright Office  (or better yet go online)  I think it is cheap and easy from what I remember.  However, it's been a while.

2)  Call or go on line with the Canadian equivalent.

3)   General Rule = Kiss anything you put on the internet goodbye. (Sorry, but it's just a fact of life)

[Age]

   I guess it is like downloading music,software or dvds.There is no way you can stop them from doing that.

[KHH Jakle]

So is this resolved?  I saw Morpheous (WGL is his baby) in the GSA lobby last night with a room advertising his "New OPPLUS v 4.0". 

I could be wrong....but I believe Chris Jones helped him put that together.  At least that what he was claiming when he was spouting off with how great he and his league are...

(little love to be lost between that guy and anyone affiliated with GZ)

[ShadowLord]

OH I WOULD BE MAD AS HELL!!!

Look I remember Morph from SL days before GZ league..The guy was and is a total dork -- I am not going to pull punches on this..


He basically ripped off several investors in  his new league 2? years ago when he started it up..in addition even while running a fun campaign he hacked into code and cheated when things went agaisnt him.
The guy is dirt and my pet name for him is Princess Morpheous...
(Please ensure you refer to him that way)

For him to associate his name with the fine work you have done is a slander that would have my fur in hackles...

Leagal issues when dealing with this type of situation -- well good luck.. but please know this...(for what it's worth and I do hope it helps)  anyone who know of this Princess Morpheous knows he is an "A hole" and anyone who knows of firesould knows all the good work you have done!!
Can I put it any more bluntly then that?


FS -- I know you have to be bad at this outrage -- log onto GSA one night and confront the idiot about it in the public lobby -- all I ask is that you make sure I am online the night you do it...

I am 39 years old and in my entire life there are very very few people that have ever rubbed me the wrong way that I would speak out agaisnt them -- Princess Morph is one of those few!
KHH_ShadowLord

[FireSoul]

It seems obvious to me, now, that legal help and copyrighting is not an option because of the money it would cost me. After all, I'm not making a cent off of OP+.

All of this is balanced on reputation. Mine. My work's. The reputation of OP+ and its collective work cannot just be taken and used in an attempt to boost one other's own reputation (and income?).



Note: They mostly likely will do as said: change the name. The SFC community won't support their work if they don't. I would see to it by continuing to plead publically to the players.

-- Luc

[FPF-Tobin Dax]

Chris Jones is working on the TNG mod.........

[FireSoul]

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Please go voice your displeasure. Make them understand.
-- Luc

[Age]

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Please go voice your displeasure. Make them understand.
-- Luc

That site is down and I tried twice.

[2step]

retry it age, i just finished a scathing post .

[FPF-DieHard]

posted

[FireSoul]

I replied with some conversation quotes on General Forums. (link in 1st post of current thread).
.. Morpheus from WGL refused to change the name.

The juiciest: "What have you done for this community lately?"


....
...
I can't believe this is happening, you know?

[Kroma BaSyl]

Here is what I would do FS, make the next release of OP+ 5.0 skip 4.0 all together. <snicker>

Guy is a wanker and a dolt, as if the fact that the shiplist is a txt file makes a difference as to whether he stole the name of your project. It wasn't bad enough that he took the name OP+ he had to version it within your naming structure. D*cksmoker plain and simple.

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

posted

Ditto

[Strafer]

Well well well...

"Latest Member: Morph"

You don't suppose..?

[KHH Jakle]

Posted....but it's pretty easy for Morph to discount anything I say, being a GZ admin myself....but I think I put things into perspective for old boy....

[SSCF-Rolling]

Hey guys.

Can't we handle this a little more diplomatic so we don't appear as bad peoples?

I really think this can be handled with a cool, intellectual head.  That would make them more acceptive of the change.

Yes, they are wrong, but that gives us no right to create a rift.  

Got me?

Show me how a mature male can handle it.

[Astarte]

Posted.

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod;action=display;num=1090225789;start=5#7

Hmm..board's not always up so here is a quote

It would be appreciated if you would consider changing the name of your mod to something more suitable and something that eventually you can take pride in developing.
 
The OPPLUS mod that firesoul has been working on for the past 2 years (and yes he continues to work on it daily), has been developed with a certain vision in mind.  To make the shiplist more to ADB's SFB standards.
 
It has even been featured in Captain's Log #29, which incidentally proves firesoul's claim to the name of the mod, a great boost to the Dynaverse. 
 
Now, if you wish to take over the name, not only will you suffer the flames of the community that you are puportedly trying to assist, but you are also cheating yourself out of being able to take pride in something that you have created.
 
This project is yours and should bear your own unique mark, your own name, so that you may get your own recognition.
 
Firesoul is proud to know that someone appreciates his work well enough to use it as a base for their projects.  And he even encourages it, for it does support and expand the community in many ways.
 
Again, I ask that you choose a more suitable name for your mod.  I know my home life would be easier.   
 
Firesoul's son would also appreciate it.  Makes my job of keeping them both happy easier if you do.
 
Thank you for your anticipated cooperation.
 
Samantha/Astarte

[FireSoul]

I really think this can be handled with a cool, intellectual head.

Cool.. Head?.
..  but my name itself.. it's .. Fire.. Soul..
.. uuhh...  I can't just take a big heavy piece of wood and go Captain Caveman on his @$$?

[Astarte]

No..but you can go shower and we can do something non-computer related.  *smiles*

[SSCF-Rolling]

Ok, I've posted.

But in a separate thread.  LOL!!!

[Strafer]

Funny.

Hijacker goes claiming OP Plus 3.3 is over a year old. 3.3 was released just before GW2 in May 2004!
Ask J'inn, he was getting a heart attack from redoing 3.2->3.3 shiplist work till FS automated the process for him!

[SSCF-Rolling]

No..but you can go shower and we can do something non-computer related.  *smiles*

I'm curious as to who this was directed to.  LOL!!!!!

[FireSoul]

No..but you can go shower and we can do something non-computer related.  *smiles*

I'm curious as to who this was directed to.  LOL!!!!!

Samantha.. Astarte.. is my significant other who has to deal with a bitchy me these last 2 days..
.. shower it is..

[SSCF-Rolling]

No..but you can go shower and we can do something non-computer related.  *smiles*

I'm curious as to who this was directed to.  LOL!!!!!

Samantha.. Astarte.. is my significant other who has to deal with a bitchy me these last 2 days..
.. shower it is..

Cool!!!

<hands Samantha a rolling pin>

This is just in case you get out of control.

Not about the shower thingy, but the Morpheous thingy.  <snicker>

Stay calm and have faith, Firesoul.  It'll get worked out.

Now, go do whatever it was you're suppose to be doing. 

[Dizzy]

FS, dude, just release version 4.1. And play it low key. Dont want to act like you are purposely trying to one-up him. And certainly dont want to stoop to his level. I think its low what he is doing.

I'd be mad as hell if someone else besides me hosted a server called Slave Girls IV and drew off previous server ideas and work I did... basically ripping me off.

I'll make a post on that link... Cap'n smack to the rescue...

[SSCF-Rolling]

I'll make a post on that link... Cap'n smack to the rescue...

OH GOD, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dizzy!!! Come back here!!!!

You have absolutely no diplomatic skills!!!!!

[Strafer]

I'll make a post on that link... Cap'n smack to the rescue...

OH GOD, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dizzy!!! Come back here!!!!

You have absolutely no diplomatic skills!!!!!

ROFLMAO!

Between Diz and our hijacker fiend this should develop into something quite ... colourful!
 

[Kroma BaSyl]

Hey guys.

Can't we handle this a little more diplomatic so we don't appear as bad peoples?

I really think this can be handled with a cool, intellectual head.  That would make them more acceptive of the change.

Yes, they are wrong, but that gives us no right to create a rift. 

Got me?

Show me how a mature male can handle it.

OK, I'll go over and clear things up. ;P

[Strafer]

OK, I'll go over and clear things up. ;P

*CHORTLE*

You'll sit on his lap and set him straight?

*runs*

[FPF-DieHard]

Hey guys.

Can't we handle this a little more diplomatic so we don't appear as bad peoples?

I really think this can be handled with a cool, intellectual head.  That would make them more acceptive of the change.

Yes, they are wrong, but that gives us no right to create a rift.  

Got me?

Show me how a mature male can handle it.

Beleive it or not, I WAS diplomatic!!   

Must be getting mellow in my old age.

[Max Power]

Diplomatic is boring. The guy is a jackass, and even more fun, I was able to use Lance's masterpiece on him, which is always fun.

[Age]

  I made a posting in Starfleet Gamers Directory SFGD about this and I know they will support FireSoul in this.

[Katherine]

Its not the STGD (not SFGD) you made a post on, its the SF and SFC Community Modding boards.  STGD has its own forums seperate from the old Tri-Mod forums

[Age]

  Thanks for reminding me of that Katherine

[Dizzy]

I'll give this smacktard a week and then get nasty. Everyone know how to do their sig, right? I see a few of you that dont use one. That's about to change.

This is one of those things that if not smacked down immediately and forcefully it wont go away, but will persist and be a pita. So my here's appreciation in advance.

Oh, btw... if you are still impartial about the results of a name dispute , it goes far beyond that so you need to get involved and not sit on the sidelines. This will fragment and divide the community. The risk here is that some will adopt this fake plagiarist version of Morpheous' 4.0 thinking it's FS's latest and other will still be using FS official 3.3 till FS updates it to whatever newer version he makes. The result will be 2x different platforms, and major confusion because they use the same name. There is already enough confusion and variety that has turned off many a gamer, we really dont need more of this.

Thats why Morpheous is such a smacktard. He doesnt have the depth of character to realize what consequences his actions will have for the whole of the sfc community.

[FireSoul]

This is a screenshot I made and gave Sam a while back. It was taken as I was creating damage textures for all models in their breakmods. This is obviously on the underside of such a piece.. probably the underside of a sensordome from a Fed. The texture was applied but was not 'Unwraped" equally yet.

The image came out so cool that I took a screenshot before spreading out the damage texture. Sam had wanted it because she thought it would make a cool 'crest'. This came out from OP+ work, and sam felt she wanted to use it in these circumstances (and felt that she needed to surprise me with it. )






.. and there you have it, folks!

[SSCF-Rolling]

Quoted from Morpheous.....

But after all consideration we did modify the name to WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on. 
Thats about as far as I am going to change it, just because of the fact. If you fly Federation in either my mod or firesouls mod it is still the 3.3 and I will not take that from him. I will not claim the original 8 races as my own, like everybody is suggesting. So this will be the name of it WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on  and thats the end of this descussion.

The name has changed.

Please go thank him, you ungrateful bunch of smacktard beaters.  LOL!!!

[Dizzy]

Kim, he changed his mind after I made my scathing threat of intent to make his life miserable. I dont know if any of you had a chance to read my post b4 he deleted it, and others, but I laid it down on him so hard... it was worthy of the flames of old... You'd have been proud had you been around back in the glory days of flaming.

Really... too bad my post is gone. It was one of my best to date.

Anyhows, mission accomplished. Nice we can all use our collective wits together to help one of our own.

[KHH Jakle]

Let me make an observation here:  even as he relents to changing the name, he still speaks as if he is being persecuted for trying to single handedly save the game, making repeated referenced to 'only 30 online' on any given night.

Look, I am not a big D2 person.  I like Jinn's GW, but I am more interested in Max's F&E camp.  But I will say that the SFC 'community' is still alive and well HERE - which is to say the D2 side of the house has proven to have a greater cohesion and longevity than the GSA/League side of the house.

I recognized that back in January, when I came over to the Taldren forum looking to drum up some interest for GZ's Divisional League.  And while I didn't get as many folks to come give us a try as I might have liked, GZ benefited immensely from those who did (the guys in GDA in particular, and individuals like Green).  What's more, in the exchange, I think you'll find a good deal of GZ's players began to frequent these forums and look into D2 play.

So, my point is:  don't anybody go thank this self-important schmuck for doing what good conscience should have required him to do from the get go.  Let him wallow - alone - in that dank corner (the last few days is the most action his forum has ever seen).  The fact that he has a notion that his efforts were somehow the last saving grace of this game is emblematic of his ignorance  - the last saving grace of this game is here.

[Max Power]

Most people play the game that they want to play. It's all good.

The fact that he deleted the flames is hilarious...

[SSCF-Rolling]

Kim, he changed his mind after I made my scathing threat of intent to make his life miserable. I dont know if any of you had a chance to read my post b4 he deleted it, and others, but I laid it down on him so hard... it was worthy of the flames of old... You'd have been proud had you been around back in the glory days of flaming.

Really... too bad my post is gone. It was one of my best to date.

Anyhows, mission accomplished. Nice we can all use our collective wits together to help one of our own.

If you want the credit then you can have it, but I seriously doubt that was the reason.

Going over and threating a person for doing something that displeased us is not using out collective wit.

I am disappointed in the way you guys act.  You have all gave the Dynaverse.net a bad reputation with your loud mouth, arrogant behavior, and smacktalk.

There are so many ways to accomplish the goal that would increase your value, but instead you all go in as hot heads and think you can force people to change when none of you can change.

This was all handled wrong from the beginning to end.

I cannot express enough my displeasure in all of you at this time.

You're a bunch of babies!!!!

[FPF-DieHard]

You're a bunch of babies!!!!

Goo-goo

I actually was nice!!

[SSCF-Rolling]

You're a bunch of babies!!!!

Goo-goo

I actually was nice!!

Maybe you were, but I'm angry at everyone right now!!!!

AND EMBARRASSED!!!

 

[Astarte]

*edit*

We do not know each other, so let me tell you a little about myself.
 
I am from the Dynaverse.net forums, which used to be the Taldren forums.
 
I have been playing online and have been a member of the SSCF fleet for 2.5 years.
 
I have, also, been using the Firesoul OP+ since the beginning of it's birth.
 
Please don't think bad of the ones who posted in anger or frustration due to the fact that you are using Firesoul's OP+ name.
 
I think if you will sit back, and imagine yourself in his shoes, you will begin to understand the urgency of our petition.
 
We employ you to consider what has happened here.  Firesoul has given you permission to go forward with adding on to his OP+, but would like for you to rename your creation.
 
You are not Firesoul, and you need to uphold your artwork as your own.  This will be benificial for you as the creator of the add on.  This will be your baby.
 
We thank you for your reconsideration.  Please understand we want you to succeed in your progress.
 
Sincerely,
 
Kimberly   

Rolling the Mod was design to help the community from dieing as the SFC2 community did. Not that anybody is stealing anybodys stuff. As you said we where given permission to modify the opplus 3.3, just because the name wasn't descussed with anybody doesn't make us thieves in No way ( because we had permission ).
 
On the other hand it seems that people are only interested in seeing the name of things and thats it. People need to remember that this is SFC not SFB. The community is about 30 strong on a good night. People can not sit and wait for a select few to do things that not all in the community is behind. Without people playing a game FireSoul can mod all he wants, but if nobody is left in the lobby to play it whats the point?
 
But after all consideration we did modify the name to WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on. 
Thats about as far as I am going to change it, just because of the fact. If you fly Federation in either my mod or firesouls mod it is still the 3.3 and I will not take that from him. I will not claim the original 8 races as my own, like everybody is suggesting. So this will be the name of it WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on  and thats the end of this descussion.
 
You people on the Dynaverse.net can choke on your own pride for I care and instead of thinking of the just a name of something look at the bigger picture of the community trying to save the gaming lobby.

The full reply from Morpheus. *edit*

*edit*

[SSCF-Rolling]

Rolling the Mod was design to help the community from dieing as the SFC2 community did. Not that anybody is stealing anybodys stuff. As you said we where given permission to modify the opplus 3.3, just because the name wasn't descussed with anybody doesn't make us thieves in No way ( because we had permission ).
 
On the other hand it seems that people are only interested in seeing the name of things and thats it. People need to remember that this is SFC not SFB. The community is about 30 strong on a good night. People can not sit and wait for a select few to do things that not all in the community is behind. Without people playing a game FireSoul can mod all he wants, but if nobody is left in the lobby to play it whats the point?
 
But after all consideration we did modify the name to WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on. 
Thats about as far as I am going to change it, just because of the fact. If you fly Federation in either my mod or firesouls mod it is still the 3.3 and I will not take that from him. I will not claim the original 8 races as my own, like everybody is suggesting. So this will be the name of it WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on  and thats the end of this descussion.
 
You people on the Dynaverse.net can choke on your own pride for I care and instead of thinking of the just a name of something look at the bigger picture of the community trying to save the gaming lobby.

The full reply from Morpheus for those that do not wish to participate in their forums any longer.

*blinks*

My post was a flame?  Cool.

That wasn't neccessary.

Thanks for helping. 

[Astarte]

Perhaps.  Then again, there is no way to sugar coat his response.  He posted what he wanted on the topic.  It is the right of the readers of -this- forum to know his view.

As well it shows that he does not understand the drive of some modders.  It isn't always for the community, at first.  FireSoul started his for personal enjoyment for him and his friends.  The community embraced it, and that inspired him to continue.

It is unfortunate that Morpheus does not understand the selflessness that was put into creating OP+ in the first place.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

I'm angry at everyone right now!!!!

<looks around> Since I didn't have a hand in this, does that make me the good one?! <polishes halo>





-LeRoy the Righteous

[SSCF-Rolling]

Perhaps.  Then again, there is no way to sugar coat his response.  He posted what he wanted on the topic.  It is the right of the readers of -this- forum to know his view.

As well it shows that he does not understand the drive of some modders.  It isn't always for the community, at first.  FireSoul started his for personal enjoyment for him and his friends.  The community embraced it, and that inspired him to continue.

It is unfortunate that Morpheus does not understand the selflessness that was put into creating OP+ in the first place.

I agree with you about what FireSoul has done, but there was no reason to continue to bring negative vibes to this discussion.

He changed the name.  That is what we were trying to accomplish.  Not tarnish the Dynaverse.net name.  Not burn a bridge to other communities.  Not act like a bunch of self-centered brats.

But we did.  We did all of it.

This could have been handled maturely, but I guess that is impossible for mindless automatons to act maturely.

You want someone to do right by you, but you can't do right.  A little one sided.

But that's fine.  Flame.  Call names.

That is the only thing this community does well.

[FPF-DieHard]

Kimmy is right.  The point was made, the name was changed, there is no need to perpetuate the flaming.  Most of us don't know this guy, it is not productive to continue hostilities after the issue is resolved.

We need to save the energy for flaming each other 

[FireSoul]

Perhaps.  Then again, there is no way to sugar coat his response.  He posted what he wanted on the topic.  It is the right of the readers of -this- forum to know his view.

As well it shows that he does not understand the drive of some modders.  It isn't always for the community, at first.  FireSoul started his for personal enjoyment for him and his friends.  The community embraced it, and that inspired him to continue.

It is unfortunate that Morpheus does not understand the selflessness that was put into creating OP+ in the first place.

It was a violation of my self, no less than that. To make others understand, I didn't go to work on Monday: I called in sick. I was in no shape to do anything and actually stayed in bed till 3:30pm. (I was wide awake at 3pm, but I just layed there staring at something for 30mins..)

Childish or not, I feel that my actions towards him are justified. Any bad word this man recieved from people on here is also justified. I'm actually happy this happened this way.


Look. If this was sex, I would have been raped. Instead, this was personal pride and creativity. Yes! Ego too. He hurt a man's pride and there was no easy way out of this one.

-- Luc

[KHH Jakle]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

[SSCF-Rolling]

You are all right.

Forgive me for trying to upgrade the forums.

I'm tired of babysitting.

Bye.

[FireSoul]

*sigh*..

.. Kim, what you said to this man probably had the most effect than all of ours, but would not have had an effect if all forms of pressure was not applied. I am sorry you disagree with our conduct and hope you'll at least stay on to play with us online.

[Kroma BaSyl]

Personally, I think he was just afraid of what's under the tutu.

Kim, he was out of line and needed a little slapping for being a tool about taking the name, however that said, it was all a pretty meaningless issue to be getting worked up about. FS, I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Kim I also agree the attitudes around here have gotten a bit out of control recently, mine worst of all at times. Having taken a bit of a forced sabbatical (due to hardware issues, still trying to resolve) I am reevaluating just how much energy I want to waste on this hobby. I think from now on I will concentrate on putting positive energy into it, as I always seem to get back out what I put in.

XOXOXO
Kroma

PS, Your words over the last few months have not fallen completely on deaf ears Kim.

[Strafer]

... I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Don't bet on it big guy. You didn't see how it was being harped on GSA...

[FireSoul]

... I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Don't bet on it big guy. You didn't see how it was being harped on GSA...

None of us here would have confused it with mine, but the folks on GSA were buying it.

[Astarte]

Editted previous post.

Added Kim Rolling's first post on the WGL forums and left Morpheus' full reply. (I believe that only showing part of a poster's response sometimes fails in showing their full reasoning.  So in deference to that, I added Kim's post for fairness in what he was responding to.)

Editted out comments on the WGL forums.  (Seriously though, the DNS causes problems for people viewing the thread.  So, if people really want to look, there it is. Verbatim.)

Editted out my surprise (admittedly poorly emoted surprise) on having my post deleted from their forums. (It was, in my opinion at least, a well thought out and unflammable request.  As most of the other posts deleted from that thread were flames, I assumed mine was taken that way as well.  It was a request and an explanation on my end of what happened.)

*thus finishes the explanation of the reasoning of the posting of the Astarte*

[Dizzy]

... I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Don't bet on it big guy. You didn't see how it was being harped on GSA...

None of us here would have confused it with mine, but the folks on GSA were buying it.

Whatta u mean?

[Kroma BaSyl]

... I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Don't bet on it big guy. You didn't see how it was being harped on GSA...

Yeah, but whether or not he agreed to change the name, word would have gotten out about the real OP+.

[FireSoul]

... I say meaningless because even thought he stole the name it was unlikely that anyone would have confused his list with yours regardless of what he called it.

Don't bet on it big guy. You didn't see how it was being harped on GSA...

None of us here would have confused it with mine, but the folks on GSA were buying it.

Whatta u mean?

When on confronted Morpheous publically, I had recieved a few messages from other gamers..

Stuff like:

I take it this opplus 4.0 is not yours?

Although Kroma's right about word getting out, eventually. Except that WGL was harping it as sponsored by me. That would have made things difficult.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

If it wasn't for her lecturing, I shutter to think how this society would degrade. Namby-pampy diatribe, eh? I consider her attempt to get something through some of thick skulls around here quite bold rather than "namby-pamby". Despite her being one of the better influences around here and our best representative, ya gotta go and drive her off! May your conscience convict you for speeking in such a disrespectful manner to one of our most esteemed comrades.

[Dizzy]

Yeah, I had suspected that.

There is still an issue to be left decided. Wether to support WGL_OPPLUS 4.0 (what is he calling it now?) on GSA, D2, and elsewhere or not.

I think no. Morpheous was mistaken in thinking that 3.3 hadnt been worked on in more than a year and was dead by all accounts (which is untrue) and that GSA OP was about to die because of it, hehe. So his original motivations were wrong, imo, on both accounts.

Seperately, we have the issue of GSA'ers and the like who will obviously be guiled into thinking this is the next FS version of OP+. They will undoubtedly be told this in one way or another and this will lead to all sorts of confusion the likes of which many of you can't possibly begin to fathom at this point, especially because you arnt in FS's shoes..

Yet another thing to keep in mind is what will happen when we have 3.3 users and those who use that WGL creation 4.0 thing. I prefer having one standard, which is and has been 3.3.

I am leaning toward not supporting Morpheous's WGL OP+ 4.0 because of the above reasons, not to mention plenty of others, . More so because going into a GSA room and seeing all these rooms up calling for FS's OP+ 4.0 is really disturbing, not to mention it will also be another shiplist swap in order to be able to join...

Sigh.

Before I decide, I'd like to know what the differences are between 3.3 and 4.0. HOLD IT A SEC! Tak a look at that. 3.3 and 4.0 Thats what they will be called to the uninitiated. Sucks, dont it FS... I know that Morpheous said there were 7 new races, the pirates had been swapped for. Is this the so called 'savior' of OP GSA that he is speaking of? He said there are those that like sfb and those that like sfc and this is why he made 4.0.

So... here it is then. Do we support 3.3, 4.0 or both?

[Dizzy]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

If it wasn't for her lecturing, I shutter to think how this society would degrade. Namby-pampy diatribe, eh? I consider her attempt to get something through some of thick skulls around here quite bold rather than "namby-pamby". Despite her being one of the better influences around here and our best representative, ya gotta go and drive her off! May your conscience convict you for speeking in such a disrespectful manner to one of our most esteemed comrades.

Leroy, you think this issue is as simple as a name change? Well it isnt. And Kim can be as disgusted and as dissapointed in me and all of those that posted like me as much as she wants because it is, was and may be still necessary. When you are dealing with recalcitrant scum like Morpheous who basically stole all 3+ years of FS's work and used the name to start his 'savior of OP and all sfc things' (such BS) snowball rolling downhill, you dont simply ask please thank you sir and expect that everyone will be happy and cheerful. No sir. I wont wait around to get hit by that avalanche he is trying to start.

Kim simply cannot expect us to behave as she would have us behave as we see things differently than she does. I respect Kim and who she is and what she does and how she goes about doing it, BUT, this really isnt her persoanl issue here. And she doesnt at all speak for me. So I'm wondering why she is so personally despondent over the way some of us have chosen to handle ourselves . And I'm wondering why she needs you to comment on it. Kims a big girl and she should know we wont always do things the way she does. I dont think she needs you sticking up for her her skewed reaction to something that wasnt under her control in the first place. I have never and will never check with Kim b4 I say something.

But it's not my persoanal issue either, but when you have a friend of yours get punched below the belt and miss a day of work because of it, I think that helps put into perspective the seriousness of the issue for my friend. I can also put myself in his shoes because I have been in his position and know precisely how it feels to have someone pick up your ball and run with it stomping your face in the mud as they go. It isnt pleasant by any means.

So I dunno exactly what Kim or you feel at this point, but let me make it clear in no uncertain terms, this Morpheous guy is a poisonous snake and you dont go handling poisonous snakes all nice and stuff. You keep them at a f*cking distance handling them with caution and certainty so you dont get bitten. If you had your ego hurt because I treated a snake how a snake should be treated, then I feel sorry you feel sorry. Too bad. You'll get over it.

Dont pull any trump cards if you dont agree with things. Just sit it out. We are all in this together and we cant all expect everyone to act as one. Despite her misplaced flamming indignation with us, we will all be friends when its over. Besides, I have my own beef with this wether FS can appreciate my stance or not. This morpheous guy says he is out to save SFC OP GSA. Well I think he is gonna divide it. A savior he is not. I got something to say about that wether you or anyone else likes it. And guess what? I dont give a damn if you do or dont. I say what I want when I want. Always have always will and this Morheous guy is about to get dropped kicked from Texas to the Mare Anguis.

[FireSoul]

So... here it is then. Do we support 3.3, 4.0 or both?

Are you nuts? Are you being sarcastic?
Here are the 7 races. If anyone here can tell me if any of these, except perhaps for the Andros, have anything to do with SFC2:OP, please speak up:

> Dominion
> Andromedians
> Cardassian
> Kazon
> Species8472
> Cylons
> MaQuis

This OP+ 4.0 doesn't even deserve the name.... and I am glad it has been changed.

-- Luc

[FPF-DieHard]

> Cylons

                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                 

[KHH Jakle]

Awesome! I have some Karma now!

It's a wash...but hey, I am on the boards!

[Dizzy]

oF COURSE iM BEING SARCASTIC, BUT THATS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, ISNT IT? oops caps.

See... here's the dilema. I walk into the lobby of OP GSA and all the games are 4.0. What to do? Leave or stay and play and condone Morpheous' actions? It's either that or we stomp the hell out of this WGL 4.0 sh*t right here right now.

I say you immediately release version 4.1 of OP+ wether there are changes or not. Spam the f*ck out of everything to ppl D/L it.

Keep doing it till you raise enough awareness so that all the community peeps on both sides of the fence know for a fact that WGL's ripped off version of your shiplist is crap and isnt supported by you at all.

Cylons... WTF is this dude thinking he is? The savior of OP GSA he says... 

[Katherine]

Rolling got one thing right.

Damage has been done.  There is now "murmurings" happening in the SFC 2 and OP fleets with that hammering that Morph got.

You lot seem to forget that even though WGL is basically a dying league it still has it's following.  Fire may have got what he wanted, but the reputation of WGL has been damaged anyway, it always has been.  However from what i have been seeing in email reports sent to me THIS place will suffer even more in the future.

Part of the 3 arms of the STGD is with the fleets, when they aint happy about something or when there is rumours or murmurings going on and certain fleets decide to act...i hear about it.

Anyway, nothing to do with me, its between d.net and the other side.  STGD is standing back from all this.

[Age]

  What do you mean this place D.net will suffer in the future.

[KAT J'inn]

J'inn = Clueless


What is WGL?

What is STDG?

What is a Morph?

Who are these people?

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

Can somebody answer these questions for me?

[Green]

No.  But it really doesn't matter.

So anyway, when are the Tholians getting into OP+?

[Bonk]

After noting the "cylons" part of this I have to try and look at this from a kid's perspective (i.e. most of us are way too old...)

It is really unfortunate this happened - we have to work on a mechanism to prevent its reoccurance (isn't the obligation of the DGA to do exactly that kind of thing, no? - a registry of mods perhaps? (ack?))

A shame on two accounts - FireSoul has been unnecessarily offended and a potential mod gets whitewashed from the start.

OK, I have to be honest and say that I speak from experience here, the basis of SFB-OP is a shiplist by a fellow who went by the name of "gman" a few years ago. I found the shiplist on a website, and posted my intentions on Taldren to use it. I have to admit I never got explicit permission from "gman" to even do so. (that I recall...)
I would not have continued with it (even using the same name - eerily similar...) but he never asked me to do so, perhaps because it turned out ok and he went on to better things?

Anyway, back to the kid's perspective... Cylons and Cardassians and the like are going to be exciting... this mod concept has potential (though I haven't checked it out)... it wouldn't be for me, but I think a lot of younger folks might like it (especially if developed and improved like other welcomed mods)... and they may come to like traditional SFC too.. <---***note important point...***

So how did this mod lose its welcome? Well its obvious that misusing an exisitng mod name can cause considerable trouble.

Is there a way to prevent this kind of thing? I'm sure no one started out with ill intentions and heck, you have to be motivated to mod a game even if it isnt top notch like OP+.

Would a registry here work? With a clear mission statement to encourage all mods and simply approve/mediate reuse of materials?? (mostly just to prevent misunderstandings like this)

Would people use one? How to make it work? hmmmm....

I'm not saying this very well but, this really sucks.

(especially since it seems KRolling has stomped(been driven?) off... 
I apologise if my posts contributed to that at all,
please don't hold our hormones against us... we're just men...
we can change, if we have to ... we guess...
Think - "Red Green"... god we are too old for this...)

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

..hmmm disturbing...

So anyway, when are the Tholians getting into OP+?

Good question, I'd love to see em added... will it happen? I suspect no, as it does not fulfill the classic mandate of OP+... recite with me now... ... lol...
I would like to see FireSoul's best take on some specialty races though, I figure he's best qualified to make them as accurate within the parameters of the game as possible... no actual web weapons or dis devs etc... God! where is that source?...

[Dizzy]

Rolling got one thing right.

Damage has been done.  There is now "murmurings" happening in the SFC 2 and OP fleets with that hammering that Morph got.

Whatever that means.

Morpheous afaic, hasnt gotten off the hook yet. What he did/still doing is absolutely BS. I take what he is doing just the same way as if he took the Slave Girls name and started a server with it using MY work. So if I could, I'd hamstring him, his site and everything he has put his gruby little hands on before I go back and finish him off.

If he is man enough, which I know he isnt, he'd come to this thread and defend himself openly. No more hiding out, cover ups and deleted posts. Right now respect for him is hanging by an rch. Credibility, puhlease.

I'm surprised anyone is surprised that there is a major ruckuss about this. Jayson Blair got headline news for a week. Heh. I'm a click away from a custom sig honoring him... He thinks he can make this go away by changing a name and deleting a few posts, he better think again.

[Strafer]

Well, using the material is all fine and good Dizzy. DIP has done it and so have others.
This was just the first time someone had the gall to take liberties with not just the material but swiping the whole thing.

I have no clue where this Morpheus character took his info that OP+ was over a year old abandonware but 3.2 was released in the middle of SS2 and 3.3 just as GW2 was in dev works. That's Jan and May of this year.

Taking a tangent with the material: fine.
Performing nametheft: denied, and stopped dead in it's tracks before it evolved into acceptace.

[KHH Jakle]

Rolling got one thing right.

Damage has been done.  There is now "murmurings" happening in the SFC 2 and OP fleets with that hammering that Morph got.

You lot seem to forget that even though WGL is basically a dying league it still has it's following.  Fire may have got what he wanted, but the reputation of WGL has been damaged anyway, it always has been.  However from what i have been seeing in email reports sent to me THIS place will suffer even more in the future.

Part of the 3 arms of the STGD is with the fleets, when they aint happy about something or when there is rumours or murmurings going on and certain fleets decide to act...i hear about it.

Anyway, nothing to do with me, its between d.net and the other side.  STGD is standing back from all this.

You are putting way too much stock into WGL's place in the GSA side of the SFC community.

For one thing, the GSA only side of the community is pretty sparse now when compared to this one.  In terms of total playerbase, D.net is huge and relatively organized.  In terms of actual warm bodies logged on - I compared the GW D2 to the GSA lobby - GW consistenely hit peak daily numbers that GSA could not muster except MAYBE on Friday and Saturday, and then only during the 7-10pm est slot.

Now that's total GSA OP lobby.  Now, WGL is one of two Leagues present amongst the GSA players.  To be perfectly honest, I can't make a legit argument as to which league has what % of the GSA players joined up.  I am sure WGL will claim to have more, but lets say 33% each.  The other 33% are unaffiliated - interesting thing about OP is that it has a lot of long time OP players that were here before either League moved over, and have continued to be unaffiliated.

Anyway - so WGL 'followers' (meaning people who would hold a grudge over this) consist of and even smaller subset of that 33%: Morph, Google....maybe a single 'fleet'?  That's pretty shallow reach.

On the flipside, organizationally, GZ has a positive view of this community as we have come to know it over the last 7 months.  So, you can rest assured that our 33% is only gonna hear positive press from us.

That unaffiliated 33% is mostly all D2 guys anyway.

So, that's my unpartisan attempt to put this into perspective from a 'GSA v D2' crowd thing.

Now, here is some partisan comments:

It's my belief that Morph's main goal here was to not deliberately besmirch Firesoul's rep or steal his hard work.  I am certain he was totally taken by surprise when this D2 posse came knockin on his forum to call him out on what he'd done.  Those that saw his initial response - he thought all those people were GZ guys, and I for the first and last time posted there to make sure he new that with the exception of Gendo, none of the posters were with GZ.

Morph's publicly announced goal has been and is to 'kill GZ'.  I believe that this effort of his was toward that end.  He knows that GZ has adopted FS's OP+ as the default shiplist (and that any new release is to be adopted immediately).  So, basically I think his goal was to get enough of the GSA lobby to move to the OPPLUS 4.0 (by hook or by crook) that GZ would be put into a big squeeze - people don't care for switching back and forth between shiplists.  That, and '4.0' gives the impression that GZ is behind the times and WGL is a progressive league where all the new action is.

I guess in an off handed way, i am defending him:  He was only misrepresenting himself to a very small segment of the SFC community, and I don't think he planned on any of that getting back to Firesoul - and if it did, it wouldn't spill over to the GSA lobby.  There is a widely held misconception amongst many that ONLY play on GSA that the D2 side of the house has no dealings with with GSA, and that probably was fundamental in him taking the course he did.

Anyway....that's my long winded take on the situation

[SSCF-LeRoy]

And I'm wondering why she needs you to comment on it. Kims a big girl and she should know we wont always do things the way she does. I dont think she needs you sticking up for her her skewed reaction to something that wasnt under her control in the first place.

That is true, Dizzy. Kim doesn't need anyone to stick up for her, but we are the SSCF and that's what we do; we stand by our fleet mates.

[Max Power]

If you want the credit then you can have it, but I seriously doubt that was the reason.

Going over and threating a person for doing something that displeased us is not using out collective wit.

I am disappointed in the way you guys act.  You have all gave the Dynaverse.net a bad reputation with your loud mouth, arrogant behavior, and smacktalk.

There are so many ways to accomplish the goal that would increase your value, but instead you all go in as hot heads and think you can force people to change when none of you can change.

This was all handled wrong from the beginning to end.

I cannot express enough my displeasure in all of you at this time.

You're a bunch of babies!!!!

ROFL....I personally like to humiliate the worthy. And this guy fits the bill, hehe.



And none too soon!

[Max Power]

J'inn = Clueless

What is WGL?

This question alone I think tells you all you need to know..

What is STDG?

If you have to ask it can't be that important.

What is a Morph?

A smacktard.

Who are these people?

Which ones?

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

We are only men, not gods.

[FireSoul]

Besides, I have my own beef with this wether FS can appreciate my stance or not.

Oh, I appreciate it. Good to have you on my side. I enjoyed every bit of the flaming smack you gave Morpheous.

[FireSoul]

No.  But it really doesn't matter.

So anyway, when are the Tholians getting into OP+?

Sorry Green.. Tholians are not in stock OP either, and so they won't be in OP+ either.. I also always assumed that if ever this game becomes modifiable in such a way to add races and weapons (sourcecode?) the ships of OP+ would in fact become 'stock' on their own.

Until then, I will stick to the focus.. and continue making FireSoul's OP+.

-- Luc

[FireSoul]

oF COURSE iM BEING SARCASTIC, BUT THATS WHAT IT COMES DOWN TO, ISNT IT? oops caps.

See... here's the dilema. I walk into the lobby of OP GSA and all the games are 4.0. What to do? Leave or stay and play and condone Morpheous' actions? It's either that or we stomp the hell out of this WGL 4.0 sh*t right here right now.

I say you immediately release version 4.1 of OP+ wether there are changes or not. Spam the f*ck out of everything to ppl D/L it.

Keep doing it till you raise enough awareness so that all the community peeps on both sides of the fence know for a fact that WGL's ripped off version of your shiplist is crap and isnt supported by you at all.

Cylons... WTF is this dude thinking he is? The savior of OP GSA he says... 

I'll do better.. I expect to have Module R8 at the end of this week, and at some point in the near future, release a "FireSoul's OP+ v 3.4".
.. yes. 3.4..

I want to show people that I don't play this 4.0 game and that this mod will continue on schedule with the best queality possible, regardless of what happened. I'm sure many will wonder why 3.4 is superior to the 3rd party's version 4.0

-- Luc
FireSoul

[Astarte]

*notes that WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on is an add-on not a mod.*

[FireSoul]

.. *sigh* ..

edit: Katherine? Where'd your post go?

[Dizzy]

Morph's publicly announced goal has been and is to 'kill GZ'.  I believe that this effort of his was toward that end.  He knows that GZ has adopted FS's OP+ as the default shiplist (and that any new release is to be adopted immediately).  So, basically I think his goal was to get enough of the GSA lobby to move to the OPPLUS 4.0 (by hook or by crook) that GZ would be put into a big squeeze - people don't care for switching back and forth between shiplists.  That, and '4.0' gives the impression that GZ is behind the times and WGL is a progressive league where all the new action is.

So he's out to kill GZ? who can verify this? That's probably not all that great of an idea, cuz some ppl who enjoy GZ spill over into the D2 from time to time. I dont want any part of any D2 community killed off. Hurts player numbers.

I'd like to know what his reasoning is if true.

[Green]

ROFL

Thats what i like about this place, if you dont agree with the mod rule you get thumped, hell, Nanner is still doing it to Vic and he's in HOSPITAL.

Also, whats STGD?  It's the site that held the interview with Harry Lang and its the site that asked Harry to visit this place.  It's also the site which is hosting over half of the mods for SFC 3 and gets around 10,000 to 20,000 hits a day...and it's Star Trek's no.1 PC game site.  As some people in here said though, its not important.

See ya, youve lost another member.

And Harry Lang would be?  And where are these 10-20K players per day at?

Okay, I admit, obnoxious responses, but this is the D2 area of the forums.  If the same was posted in the D3 area, I assume a different response would have been made.  

SFC3 is a good game for many players.  So is Myst and the Sims.  But I personally don't care for any of them.  There are many D3 players who say the same for SFC2.  No problem, we'll each get to play our own game and not worry.  They ARE different games.  A few players do play both happily (), but that does not mean all others must also.


PS - I'm glad there was a rain-down-of-smack on the use of the name 'OP+4.0.'  The current changed name is great, and it would have been a good one to start with.  There was credit given   but using the name and adding new version number w/o an okay was a foul  .



FS - Okay, then what about the rest of the SFB-based races?

[FireSoul]

I wish to send out a heartfelt apology to people who are leaving these forums because of something I started: I did not intend for this to spill over into something that are causing any form of rift in any community.

-- Luc

[Max Power]

If paramount exploded into a smoking hole tomarrow I think I might be glad. Anyway, as for the rest of the races, I don't see how it could be done. Andros really need 3 things - working reserve power, a displacement device, and power absorber panels. About as unreachable as tholian web currently (and I know that some people are working on scripts for the displacement device).

[FireSoul]

FS - Okay, then what about the rest of the SFB-based races?

*thinks* ..
.. we just don't have the right weapons and systems to reproduce them right. I'm not even happy with the way the Orion Pirates are implemented without real option mounts, but at least there we have the ability to just do as many permutations as possible.

The closest we have are Andros..
Good: We have TRL and TRH weapons, but we can't make them as scary as they really are with shields and no disdev.. 
Semi-good: There *IS* the possibility of deploying sat ships as if they were PFs, but they won't be deployed at a distance..  (meh)
Semi-good: The disdev can be simulated through the use of the deepscan and setting the ship to go at an insane speed for some small time.. but this is all scripting.
Bad: No proper use of the insane batteries and energy uses.. as well as the power panels which can just dissipate absorbed damage into space..


..as you can see, this *CAN* be "simulated" .. but would never be as impressive as the real thing. Heck! We can't even do the simple thing of beaming out a marine satship directly onto a planet's surface to deploy the troops faster! .. yesss.. you CAN do that in SFB.

.. no.. I suggest we wait for the ability to really do this right.. with option mounts for the pirates.. disdevs and powerpanels for the Andros and webs for the Tholians. Let's do this properly.

-- Luc

[KAT J'inn]

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

..hmmm disturbing...

Yes very.   He says he likes it while smoking a good Phillies Blunt and eating a fried Murray's Steaks burger.

I pity the poor guy.

I suggest we all pray for him and be thankful . . .

For there but for the blessing of working tatsebuds go I.

<sniff>


J'inn the Humanitarian

   

[Sirgod]

OK.

Stephen

[kortez]

Just so you all know, I moved Katherine's post because it was a thinly veiled attack by her on Dynaverse.net.  There are many people who spend a good part of their day concerned only with spreading mistruths, half truths, etc.  We won't tolerate the game being played here.  That is why the post was removed.  I am going to do the same thing to Victor1st's last post.

Thank you.

[Sirgod]

Understood again Kortez. Thanks for being there as a Mod for us.

Stephen

[kortez]

Thanks everyone.

[Astarte]

J'inn = Clueless

What is a Morph?

Who are these people?

Can somebody answer these questions for me?

Morph is some sort of bipedal humanoid.  Natural habitat and racial characteristics are still under debate.

People??!!? Where?! *looks about calculatingly*

And no..unfortunately, no one can answer these questions.  You must travel to the end of the universe, battle the never before seen urknard, and then seek out the wise and gracious omnipotent one for these answers.

*pets J'inn and hands him a colourful ball of yarn to play with*

[Max Power]

Just so you all know, I moved Katherine's post because it was a thinly veiled attack by her on Dynaverse.net.  There are many people who spend a good part of their day concerned only with spreading mistruths, half truths, etc.  We won't tolerate the game being played here.  That is why the post was removed.  I am going to do the same thing to Victor1st's last post.

Thank you.

But we didn't even get the chance to work up to some first class flaming yet! I object. Not like the old days

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

Sorry Kim, I just gotta...

What's with being a down right jerk to a woman, do you feel all manly now? As long as you kept to the issue it was fine, but now you have gone and insulted somebody just trying to help. Maybe you would like a crew neck T-shirt and a beer to go along with your attack on a female.

The person you attacked for trying to be civil is a well respected member and you have stunk up the place by being decidedly UN-civil. She is allowed her thoughts just as much as you are allowed to be a jerk. (which you do very well at)

Hooch

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

Sorry Kim, I just gotta...

What's with being a down right jerk to a woman, do you feel all manly now? As long as you kept to the issue it was fine, but now you have gone and insulted somebody just trying to help. Maybe you would like a crew neck T-shirt and a beer to go along with your attack on a female.

The person you attacked for trying to be civil is a well respected member and you have stunk up the place by being decidedly UN-civil. She is allowed her thoughts just as much as you are allowed to be a jerk. (which you do very well at)

Hooch

Here here!

See what I mean, Dizzy?

[FPF-DieHard]

Was Kim attacked?  I didn't see that, to me it looked like people simply diagreed with her as to how to handle this issue.

[Dizzy]

Well, thats the thing, Leroy, I dont see how kim was attacked. I DO see how we as gents colectively went about our own way on handling this issue was to her dissapointment. I wouldnt have thought that would drive her off. Jakle's post doesnt seem ott, but if she was in a particular mood, that post could sting...

This is odd. I dont see too much kim hand holding, but this thread is full of it. I like kim, I dont want to see her upset, but I dont see the problem. Mb thats the problem. Men need to see a problem in order to fix it. Mb ithere isnt a problem to fix? Mb its one of those emotional things. I dunno. We as men always try and put on our Mr. Fix it hat and make things better. Be nice to do that for Kim right now, Im sure she doesnt need it, but Im kinda busy wearing my STOMP hat dealing with Morpheous. Ill have to get back to u guys... Besides, walking on eggshells isnt something I like to do. Makes me uncomfiortable if I have to work into my think process wether or not something I say will offend kim. I dont think that ck stop will make it into the programming update.

[KHH Jakle]

Morph's publicly announced goal has been and is to 'kill GZ'.  I believe that this effort of his was toward that end.  He knows that GZ has adopted FS's OP+ as the default shiplist (and that any new release is to be adopted immediately).  So, basically I think his goal was to get enough of the GSA lobby to move to the OPPLUS 4.0 (by hook or by crook) that GZ would be put into a big squeeze - people don't care for switching back and forth between shiplists.  That, and '4.0' gives the impression that GZ is behind the times and WGL is a progressive league where all the new action is.

So he's out to kill GZ? who can verify this? That's probably not all that great of an idea, cuz some ppl who enjoy GZ spill over into the D2 from time to time. I dont want any part of any D2 community killed off. Hurts player numbers.

I'd like to know what his reasoning is if true.

OLD NEWS .... I can't even really explain it in detail, because I wasn't around for it so it would all be hearsay - I can say that GZ sprung from AFCUB, which was formed as an answer to TGIC (which became WGL) when Morph's predeliction for being a control freak and some one questionable tendencies in the fairness arena came into question.

Bottom-line is this:  while GZ has historically had some player issues when previous owners/admins were there, since last fall I would say we have consolidated out player base to the kind of players you all would recognize: people that are there to play SFC in an open clean atmosphere with no ego's or shenanigans.  That being the case, I am not terribly concerned with Morph's efforts to kill us ....the only thing I fear is time.

[KHH Jakle]

Rolling - what's with the namby-pamby diatribe?

Stop lecturing everybody on the proper way to issue resolution.  "Oh thank you Morph, thank you so much for being so generous and reversing what was an Outright, lowdown, dirty usurpation of some ones hard work and energy and claiming it for yourself.  Your such a sweet heart!"

blech!

I respect your right to deal with issues how ever you see fit - but don't drown us with sugary sweet bile and tell us THAT is the appropriate way to deal with situations such as this. 

You're embarrassed?  sheesh......

Sorry Kim, I just gotta...

What's with being a down right jerk to a woman, do you feel all manly now? As long as you kept to the issue it was fine, but now you have gone and insulted somebody just trying to help. Maybe you would like a crew neck T-shirt and a beer to go along with your attack on a female.

The person you attacked for trying to be civil is a well respected member and you have stunk up the place by being decidedly UN-civil. She is allowed her thoughts just as much as you are allowed to be a jerk. (which you do very well at)

Hooch

Here here!

See what I mean, Dizzy?

Whatch out - I don't think Kim would appreciate you attacking me.  You should buy me flowers first, and right out your complaint in a poem, preferably in iambic pentameter.

Jeez - you'd think I punched her. 

I'm sorry, but her tantrum (if you look at what she wrote - it was her doing veritable kicking and screaming - not any of us grunting scratching brutish males) needed a response.  Besides, you give me too much credit - it seems to me that she was thoroughly disgusted with our neanderthal behavior prior to my response.

[FPF-DieHard]

Whatch out - I don't think Kim would appreciate you attacking me.  You should buy me flowers first, and right out your complaint in a poem, preferably in iambic pentameter.

No Poems!!!  Look what happened to WaterTigger 

[CM.E.Kehakoul_XC]

 There is no doubt about the intentions Morpheous had, If we hadnt acted fast  he had succded with his foul play. There are times for diplomatic activities and times to Draw a line> I for my part posted him directly what i think he was up to, it was an attempt of blatant thievery which we stoped  and thats it.
As i was the first  who posted on their boards directly after firesouls response,i assume the "caveman" expression ,Kim used was also a tag for me.
I dont know that woman, and i object to brownnose people who just tryed to rip me off  ,one of my friends  or XC. I  will not excuse for that.

One suggestion for KIm i got though, read slowly and carefully the  chatt logs Firesoul posted.
IF you really  READ what  stands there you will eventually grasp what this guy tryed,and in what a jackass fashion.
 I doubt we need people like him arround,i even would go as far as saying we dont need people  who act like him at all.

weired times we live in, the just cause has to defend  itself.. ,..ODD.

Caveman...  CM.E.Kehakoul_XC

[KBF-Crim]

ZUG ZUG!

[Kroma BaSyl]

Sorry Kim, I just gotta...

What's with being a down right jerk to a woman, do you feel all manly now? As long as you kept to the issue it was fine, but now you have gone and insulted somebody just trying to help. Maybe you would like a crew neck T-shirt and a beer to go along with your attack on a female.

The person you attacked for trying to be civil is a well respected member and you have stunk up the place by being decidedly UN-civil. She is allowed her thoughts just as much as you are allowed to be a jerk. (which you do very well at)

Hooch

Geez Hoochie Poo, where were you when I was the damsel in distress.

[Dizzy]

Exactly kehak. And furthermore, there was no 'bridge' to build to anyone on his side, and certainly no reason to showcase ourselves for sale to a smacktard and his like for that matter like what Kim was trying to allude to.

The way we handled ourselves, there was no embarrassment on our part that is for sure. In fact, with the exception of a few outspoken critics of our actions, we all sorta teamed up and stood together toe to toe on this one. Kinda cool.

But it's not over yet.

[GDA-S'Cipio]

One suggestion for KIm i got though, read slowly and carefully the  chatt logs Firesoul posted.

I read those, several days back.  In them the representative of the accused promised Firesoul that the name-use was due to misunderstanding about what Firesoul's "permission to use" meant, and they agreed to respect his wishes and not use the name OP+.

Now I come here and find this thread.  (Wow, you miss all the hot stuff when you have a busy day and don't check every thread.)

If they'd already agreed not to use the name, what was the issue?  Did I miss something?  Did the accused write back and say, "screw what my friend says; I'm using your name and you can't stop me?"  I don't know.  I never went to his forum.  Maybe he *did* do that.  But if his organization had already agreed not to use the name OP+, what was the need for a flame campaign?

-S'Cipio  

[FireSoul]

I actually don't have much of an issue anymore.. hey did change the name after all. Status Quo has been restored.

.. but watching dizzy maul at that .. person.. is amusing.

[_SSCF_Hooch]

Sorry Kim, I just gotta...

What's with being a down right jerk to a woman, do you feel all manly now? As long as you kept to the issue it was fine, but now you have gone and insulted somebody just trying to help. Maybe you would like a crew neck T-shirt and a beer to go along with your attack on a female.

The person you attacked for trying to be civil is a well respected member and you have stunk up the place by being decidedly UN-civil. She is allowed her thoughts just as much as you are allowed to be a jerk. (which you do very well at)

Hooch

Geez Hoochie Poo, where were you when I was the damsel in distress.

You want flowers or sumth'n?

Hooch

[Age]

Well, thats the thing, Leroy, I dont see how kim was attacked. I DO see how we as gents colectively went about our own way on handling this issue was to her dissapointment. I wouldnt have thought that would drive her off. Jakle's post doesnt seem ott, but if she was in a particular mood, that post could sting...

This is odd. I dont see too much kim hand holding, but this thread is full of it. I like kim, I dont want to see her upset, but I dont see the problem. Mb thats the problem. Men need to see a problem in order to fix it. Mb ithere isnt a problem to fix? Mb its one of those emotional things. I dunno. We as men always try and put on our Mr. Fix it hat and make things better. Be nice to do that for Kim right now, Im sure she doesnt need it, but Im kinda busy wearing my STOMP hat dealing with Morpheous. Ill have to get back to u guys... Besides, walking on eggshells isnt something I like to do. Makes me uncomfiortable if I have to work into my think process wether or not something I say will offend kim. I dont think that ck stop will make it into the programming update.

I will say this about you.That you almost drove me away from the Taldren Boards although I am only one.It would seems to me that D2 is lacking players.This goes to everyone although I am not that important around here considering you all joke at my postings and don't take me seriously and most of the time I am being serious.I get tired of explaining things out when I now I right and others joke about it.If you take that BCH debate it is thing like that I was being serious.I am not a joker unless it come down to practical ones.The one debate I keep getting into is that SFB is a exaggeration of Star Trek.This is enough said.If you want expand your player base start listening and knock off the jokes.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

Well, thats the thing, Leroy, I dont see how kim was attacked. I DO see how we as gents colectively went about our own way on handling this issue was to her dissapointment. I wouldnt have thought that would drive her off. Jakle's post doesnt seem ott, but if she was in a particular mood, that post could sting...

This is odd. I dont see too much kim hand holding, but this thread is full of it. I like kim, I dont want to see her upset, but I dont see the problem. Mb thats the problem. Men need to see a problem in order to fix it. Mb ithere isnt a problem to fix? Mb its one of those emotional things. I dunno. We as men always try and put on our Mr. Fix it hat and make things better. Be nice to do that for Kim right now, Im sure she doesnt need it, but Im kinda busy wearing my STOMP hat dealing with Morpheous. Ill have to get back to u guys... Besides, walking on eggshells isnt something I like to do. Makes me uncomfiortable if I have to work into my think process wether or not something I say will offend kim. I dont think that ck stop will make it into the programming update.

I will say this about you.That you almost drove me away from the Taldren Boards although I am only one.It would seems to me that D2 is lacking players.This goes to everyone although I am not that important around here considering you all joke at my postings and don't take me seriously and most of the time I am being serious.I get tired of explaining things out when I now I right and others joke about it.If you take that BCH debate it is thing like that I was being serious.I am not a joker unless it come down to practical ones.The one debate I keep getting into is that SFB is a exaggeration of Star Trek.This is enough said.If you want expand your player base start listening and knock off the jokes.

Don't take the jabs at your posts too seriously. AFAIK, the conclusions that you've drawn concerning the game are based soley on your experience in single player play, which is worlds away from multiplayer play. As you become more familiar with the MP realm on GSA and the Dyna, you'll come to understand alot of the stuff these guys are constantly arguin' about and that the Taldren F-BCE is p00p

[Dizzy]

That's a good one-liner age.

[Hexx]

Ahhh Age Bashing... one of my few hobbies on this board

OK Age in the interest of keeping you around (and I would prefer you stay around and start to play)

I will say this about you.That you almost drove me away from the Taldren Boards although I am only one

Assuming you mean Dizzy.. ignore him. he likes to have his name show up but he's in the "has been" category
If you mean someone else- get used to it, everyone critiques everyone here..

.It would seems to me that D2 is lacking players.This goes to everyone although I am not that important around here considering you all joke at my postings and don't take me seriously and most of the time I am being serious.I get tired of explaining things out when I now I right and others joke about it.If you take that BCH debate it is thing like that I was being serious

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.
-When defending the BCE -you mentioned it "could fly speed 38.8, enough to outrun any plasma etc etc"
You put forth the idea that everyone playing this game for x years + had all this time been reading how fast the ships flew wrong. That we should actually look at the energy panel to see how fast they were going.
- You posted that you're own "modified" D7L was a great ship -well duh, my modded CWLP kicks ass as well- but no one will ever let it on in mulitplayer.
-All of your posts are that you can defeat the AI using tactic X etc,.
Everyone can beat the Ai (well except for J'inn... and I think I remember DH crying about it on TS one night)
Anytime ships are compared/tactics are asked for or discussed it's about PvP.
 So I'm sure it sounds rude -and I don't really mean it to be- but no one cares about how you beat a CCZ with a CWLP in 30  minutes or so against the AI (should take about 5-6 minutes btw)
Beat a CCZ with a CWLP in a PvP (taking as long as you want) and everyone will listen to you.

To (kinda) sum up- stop posting tactics or opinions you've decided are ritght about the game based on playing against the AI. (ex)-the BCE is perhaps the worst BCH in the game, doesn't mean you can't like it, doesn't mean you can't have fun flying it. But really you'll have more fun if you get online, listen to what advice your fleetmates can offer and go learn these things for yourself.

-And stop posting about how hot it is so that you can't play, unless you're living in the Danakil Depression , it's not to hot to play... 

.I am not a joker unless it come down to practical ones.The one debate I keep getting into is that SFB is a exaggeration of Star Trek.This is enough said.If you want expand your player base start listening and knock off the jokes.

Again listen to what? _It may sound harsh, but offer us something woth listening to and I think you'll find an attentive audience.. offer eroneous information and misconstrued ideas concerning the game and you're not going to get very far. Ask questions. it's good for you.

[Max Power]

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.

Ding ding. And not only that his posts are mostly unintelligible. I don't even read them because I usually can't understand what he's saying - and when I can, they make me laugh.

I mean, I can understand clueless, but how hard is it to construct a coherent train of thought?

[SSCF-LeRoy]

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.

Ding ding. And not only that his posts are mostly unintelligible. I don't even read them because I usually can't understand what he's saying - and when I can, they make me laugh.

I mean, I can understand clueless, but how hard is it to construct a coherent train of thought?

At least one person has already been insulted and driven off with this thread. Let's not add any more to the roster.

[762_XC]

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

 

J'inn....you......youu...........

YOU BASTARD!!!!!

[MBDay]

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.

Ding ding. And not only that his posts are mostly unintelligible. I don't even read them because I usually can't understand what he's saying - and when I can, they make me laugh.

I mean, I can understand clueless, but how hard is it to construct a coherent train of thought?

  I'm sorry but this one Max has installed me. And here is the reason for it. There are people like my shelf who can make a coherent train of thought but have a hard time putting in writeing. There is a medical reason for it. The name I can not rememeber but by you posting that and not thinking makes those of use that have a very very hard time putting a coherent train of thought in write is installing to say the very lest. Next time you decied there is a need to make a post like this please think of those out here that might read iot and be installed by it.

[Ravok]

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.

Ding ding. And not only that his posts are mostly unintelligible. I don't even read them because I usually can't understand what he's saying - and when I can, they make me laugh.

I mean, I can understand clueless, but how hard is it to construct a coherent train of thought?

This was nasty ,insensitive and uncalled for
 Were going to have a heck of a time getting new people to join fleets, and this web site. With this childish petty, drivel going on. 

[KAT J'inn]

Why does 762 drink Cutty Sark?

 

J'inn....you......youu...........

YOU BASTARD!!!!!

Somebody is a tad slower than usual lately.   Just wait until he finds my other gems. 

<snicker>

[Evil Kraven]

That is true, Dizzy. Kim doesn't need anyone to stick up for her, but we are the SSCF and that's what we do; we stand by our fleet mates.

hey thats perfectly understandable. and I agree with you totaly on that.

now I don't know kim at all. she seems like a nice person, just wants to help fix a problem she sees in her fashion. but what kim needs to understand is that:
1) not everyone agrees with her aproach
2) people take things different ways, and sometimes we get a little passionate about things
3) just cause you have a different view than someone else does'nt mean your right and thier wrong
4) princess morphous got called on the carpet and sent to the woodshed by not only the d2 crowd, but a few others who heard about this as well.

now if you all would have gone over with milk and cookies, nothing would have happend. if some people (especially FS himself) did'nt lambaste him on GSA, others who don't read the D2 forum would have taken this piece of garbage as Firesouls newest OPPLUS version. especially since he was spamming it on gsa with his lackys.

think about this for a sec. you don't visit D2, you hear about it on gsa. you see everyone touting firsouls 3.3 so u get it. then someone is spamming a new OPPLUS 4.0 and your like "cool, FS has a new upgrade, I loved 3.3 so let me get 4.0".  they go through the BS of down loading this POS (thats right I said POS, cause basicly thats what it is.) and maybe they have 56k like myself. so its hours of downloading. then you find out that its sucks cause its bugged all to hell ( on the wgl boards its noted that their are some problems with wepons not loading, not seen, and that it will be fixed in a later patch). your opinion of Firesoul and his OPPLUS is that it sucks.

how f'n wrong is that? you downloaded it based on his prior work, and reputation.

so sometimes the "milk and cookies" "kiss on the cheeks" does'nt cut the mustard. this would be one of those cases. princess morphous would have continued calling it, OPPLUS 4.0 etc etc etc. not for the good of the sfc community as he states, but for his own agenda.

I'm sorry bud, but if were not for those who ripped him to shreds on this, it never would have stoped.

I respect you standing up for your fleetmates. absolutly. I just disagree with kims approach is all. the little I know of her is from playing in the gw series on d2. hope she continues. she's a asset to the community. maybe you can smooth things over for us here with her........maybe bring her some "milk and cookies?"

hey man, when I get pissed at work over something......nothing like a cookie to make things a little better.

I'll have to ask mini me to post some chocolate chip cookie recipes on this thread. he's got some pretty good ones. damm good cookies if I say so myself. kim can bring the milk, and we'll all feel alot better eh?

"The Evil One"
Kraven

[Dizzy]

well said, kraven...

I bake a mean chewy chip Kim. C'mon over to my house and we'll pull up a chair, flame kroma and his pink panties and watch the fire go sky high eating these delicious chocolate chewy chips and milk...

[SSCF-LeRoy]

That is true, Dizzy. Kim doesn't need anyone to stick up for her, but we are the SSCF and that's what we do; we stand by our fleet mates.

hey thats perfectly understandable. and I agree with you totaly on that.

now I don't know kim at all. she seems like a nice person, just wants to help fix a problem she sees in her fashion. but what kim needs to understand is that:
1) not everyone agrees with her aproach
2) people take things different ways, and sometimes we get a little passionate about things
3) just cause you have a different view than someone else does'nt mean your right and thier wrong
4) princess morphous got called on the carpet and sent to the woodshed by not only the d2 crowd, but a few others who heard about this as well.

now if you all would have gone over with milk and cookies, nothing would have happend. if some people (especially FS himself) did'nt lambaste him on GSA, others who don't read the D2 forum would have taken this piece of garbage as Firesouls newest OPPLUS version. especially since he was spamming it on gsa with his lackys.

think about this for a sec. you don't visit D2, you hear about it on gsa. you see everyone touting firsouls 3.3 so u get it. then someone is spamming a new OPPLUS 4.0 and your like "cool, FS has a new upgrade, I loved 3.3 so let me get 4.0".  they go through the BS of down loading this POS (thats right I said POS, cause basicly thats what it is.) and maybe they have 56k like myself. so its hours of downloading. then you find out that its sucks cause its bugged all to hell ( on the wgl boards its noted that their are some problems with wepons not loading, not seen, and that it will be fixed in a later patch). your opinion of Firesoul and his OPPLUS is that it sucks.

how f'n wrong is that? you downloaded it based on his prior work, and reputation.

so sometimes the "milk and cookies" "kiss on the cheeks" does'nt cut the mustard. this would be one of those cases. princess morphous would have continued calling it, OPPLUS 4.0 etc etc etc. not for the good of the sfc community as he states, but for his own agenda.

I'm sorry bud, but if were not for those who ripped him to shreds on this, it never would have stoped.

I respect you standing up for your fleetmates. absolutly. I just disagree with kims approach is all. the little I know of her is from playing in the gw series on d2. hope she continues. she's a asset to the community. maybe you can smooth things over for us here with her........maybe bring her some "milk and cookies?"

hey man, when I get pissed at work over something......nothing like a cookie to make things a little better.

I'll have to ask mini me to post some chocolate chip cookie recipes on this thread. he's got some pretty good ones. damm good cookies if I say so myself. kim can bring the milk, and we'll all feel alot better eh?

"The Evil One"
Kraven

I have no interest in this whole issue with Morpheus (don't know anythin' 'bout the gent') and I don't care about how you guys handle this person. The only thing I took exception to was that "namby-pamby diatribe" crack. That statement could have been phrased a lil' bit more "constructively" and delivered in a more respectful manner, especially so to somebody who has been as civil towards the rest of the community as Kim has been. If Kim was bein' ugly, then I'd say, "That oughtta learn ya, dern ya.", but she wasn't. She was tryin' to be nice as usual and got p00ped on in return. Not a real good incentive to stick around.

[KHH Jakle]

She was pooping on us for not living up to her expectations of enlightened males.

I didn't draw first poop

[Kroma BaSyl]

She was just sick of our constant reactionary abrasiveness I imagine, and IMO she handled it fine. Everyone please lay off her.

LeRoy you aren't helping matters by prattling on. Just let it rest already.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

She was just sick of our constant reactionary abrasiveness I imagine, and IMO she handled it fine. Everyone please lay off her.

LeRoy you aren't helping matters by prattling on. Just let it rest already.

But I like to prattle! But if you insist...

I'll tell ya what, keep Piggy in his basement away from me and ya have a deal

[likkerpig]

But I like to prattle! But if you insist...

I'll tell ya what, keep Piggy in his basement away from me and ya have a deal

No deal!

[Kroma BaSyl]

But I like to prattle! But if you insist...

I'll tell ya what, keep Piggy in his basement away from me and ya have a deal

No deal!

Damn! Looks like that greased pig escaped again. Appearently he worked the ball gag out too.

[Age]

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.

Ding ding. And not only that his posts are mostly unintelligible. I don't even read them because I usually can't understand what he's saying - and when I can, they make me laugh.

I mean, I can understand clueless, but how hard is it to construct a coherent train of thought?

My posts are coherent because most of the time I am not joking around on the Tri Mod forums they make perfect sense it is you possibly.Maybe you need classes or lay off the sauce and I use my Internet Explorer spell checker as well not the one in here.I can look up all the meaning of the words with mine.When I am on a server I stand by and watch you get eating up by Klinks and Lyrans.

[Kroma BaSyl]

My posts are coherent because most of the time I am not joking around on the Tri Mod forums they make perfect sense it is you possibly.Maybe you need classes or lay off the sauce and I use my Internet Explorer spell checker as well not the one in here.I can look up all the meaning of the words with mine.When I am on a server I stand by and watch you get eating up by Klinks and Lyrans.

Well I guess you proved him wrong.

[Age]

Ahhh Age Bashing... one of my few hobbies on this board

OK Age in the interest of keeping you around (and I would prefer you stay around and start to play)

I will say this about you.That you almost drove me away from the Taldren Boards although I am only one

Assuming you mean Dizzy.. ignore him. he likes to have his name show up but he's in the "has been" category
If you mean someone else- get used to it, everyone critiques everyone here..

.It would seems to me that D2 is lacking players.This goes to everyone although I am not that important around here considering you all joke at my postings and don't take me seriously and most of the time I am being serious.I get tired of explaining things out when I now I right and others joke about it.If you take that BCH debate it is thing like that I was being serious

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.
-When defending the BCE -you mentioned it "could fly speed 38.8, enough to outrun any plasma etc etc"
You put forth the idea that everyone playing this game for x years + had all this time been reading how fast the ships flew wrong. That we should actually look at the energy panel to see how fast they were going.
- You posted that you're own "modified" D7L was a great ship -well duh, my modded CWLP kicks ass as well- but no one will ever let it on in mulitplayer.
-All of your posts are that you can defeat the AI using tactic X etc,.
Everyone can beat the Ai (well except for J'inn... and I think I remember DH crying about it on TS one night)
Anytime ships are compared/tactics are asked for or discussed it's about PvP.
 So I'm sure it sounds rude -and I don't really mean it to be- but no one cares about how you beat a CCZ with a CWLP in 30  minutes or so against the AI (should take about 5-6 minutes btw)
Beat a CCZ with a CWLP in a PvP (taking as long as you want) and everyone will listen to you.

To (kinda) sum up- stop posting tactics or opinions you've decided are ritght about the game based on playing against the AI. (ex)-the BCE is perhaps the worst BCH in the game, doesn't mean you can't like it, doesn't mean you can't have fun flying it. But really you'll have more fun if you get online, listen to what advice your fleetmates can offer and go learn these things for yourself.

-And stop posting about how hot it is so that you can't play, unless you're living in the Danakil Depression , it's not to hot to play... 

.I am not a joker unless it come down to practical ones.The one debate I keep getting into is that SFB is a exaggeration of Star Trek.This is enough said.If you want expand your player base start listening and knock off the jokes.

Again listen to what? _It may sound harsh, but offer us something woth listening to and I think you'll find an attentive audience.. offer eroneous information and misconstrued ideas concerning the game and you're not going to get very far. Ask questions. it's good for you.

What do you mean by Fleetmates my only Fleet mate is not in here that much if you care to see what Fleet I am it is on my sig?I have had read several postings in the past and on any given night you are usually going up against an AI as L1 used to say.The main reason I am not online playing yet is because I am on a shared Internet Service Provider.I need to get set up first which I am fully not.I need a few things done to my comp. as well.I hope this answers your question and btw when I do get online look a nice droner ship to come after you with type 4 drones.What is a Dynakil Depression?

[Dizzy]

PLEASE, age, let me know when u get access. I would LOVE to be there when we... initiate you... MuHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA~!!!!~~~!!!!!!

::scurries off to find all of age's old tactical post guidlines and suggestions on PvP tactics::

[_SSCF_Hooch]

She was just sick of our constant reactionary abrasiveness I imagine, and IMO she handled it fine. Everyone please lay off her.

LeRoy you aren't helping matters by prattling on. Just let it rest already.

Prattling? Geeeeish, what a girly man word...

[Mog]

Ahhh Age Bashing... one of my few hobbies on this board

OK Age in the interest of keeping you around (and I would prefer you stay around and start to play)

I will say this about you.That you almost drove me away from the Taldren Boards although I am only one

Assuming you mean Dizzy.. ignore him. he likes to have his name show up but he's in the "has been" category
If you mean someone else- get used to it, everyone critiques everyone here..

.It would seems to me that D2 is lacking players.This goes to everyone although I am not that important around here considering you all joke at my postings and don't take me seriously and most of the time I am being serious.I get tired of explaining things out when I now I right and others joke about it.If you take that BCH debate it is thing like that I was being serious

See here's the problem with your BCH posts -and it kinda (well replace kinda with absolutely) has a link to your other posts as well.
You have NO idea what you'r talking about and <usually> don't bother to ask.
-When defending the BCE -you mentioned it "could fly speed 38.8, enough to outrun any plasma etc etc"
You put forth the idea that everyone playing this game for x years + had all this time been reading how fast the ships flew wrong. That we should actually look at the energy panel to see how fast they were going.
- You posted that you're own "modified" D7L was a great ship -well duh, my modded CWLP kicks ass as well- but no one will ever let it on in mulitplayer.
-All of your posts are that you can defeat the AI using tactic X etc,.
Everyone can beat the Ai (well except for J'inn... and I think I remember DH crying about it on TS one night)
Anytime ships are compared/tactics are asked for or discussed it's about PvP.
 So I'm sure it sounds rude -and I don't really mean it to be- but no one cares about how you beat a CCZ with a CWLP in 30  minutes or so against the AI (should take about 5-6 minutes btw)
Beat a CCZ with a CWLP in a PvP (taking as long as you want) and everyone will listen to you.

To (kinda) sum up- stop posting tactics or opinions you've decided are ritght about the game based on playing against the AI. (ex)-the BCE is perhaps the worst BCH in the game, doesn't mean you can't like it, doesn't mean you can't have fun flying it. But really you'll have more fun if you get online, listen to what advice your fleetmates can offer and go learn these things for yourself.

-And stop posting about how hot it is so that you can't play, unless you're living in the Danakil Depression , it's not to hot to play... 

.I am not a joker unless it come down to practical ones.The one debate I keep getting into is that SFB is a exaggeration of Star Trek.This is enough said.If you want expand your player base start listening and knock off the jokes.

Again listen to what? _It may sound harsh, but offer us something woth listening to and I think you'll find an attentive audience.. offer eroneous information and misconstrued ideas concerning the game and you're not going to get very far. Ask questions. it's good for you.

What do you mean by Fleetmates my only Fleet mate is not in here that much if you care to see what Fleet I am it is on my sig?I have had read several postings in the past and on any given night you are usually going up against an AI as L1 used to say.The main reason I am not online playing yet is because I am on a shared Internet Service Provider.I need to get set up first which I am fully not.I need a few things done to my comp. as well.I hope this answers your question and btw when I do get online look a nice droner ship to come after you with type 4 drones.What is a Dynakil Depression?

Thanks Age, you have me giggling here (yes I'm stoned and found this highly amusing) 

[SSCF-LeRoy]

when I do get online look a nice droner ship to come after you with type 4 drones.

May I suggest you fly the D5D then? That would require you to fly Klink and I wouldn't wish that fait upon anyone...

However, if you insist to go down the droner path, the D5D is pretty much the only drone boat that has a chance to prevail in PvP, albeit slim, but it can be done. DieHard knows what I'm talkin' about. Don'tcha, DieHard?

[FPF-DieHard]

[quote author=SSCF-LeRoy link=topic=163343832.msg1122408438#msg1122408438
However, if you insist to go down the droner path, the D5D is pretty much the only drone boat that has a chance to prevail in PvP, albeit slim, but it can be done. DieHard knows what I'm talkin' about. Don'tcha, DieHard?

Bastard kills me once in training and he gets all upitiy.   Children these days . . .

[SSCF-LeRoy]

However, if you insist to go down the droner path, the D5D is pretty much the only drone boat that has a chance to prevail in PvP, albeit slim, but it can be done. DieHard knows what I'm talkin' about. Don'tcha, DieHard?

Bastard kills me once in training and he gets all upitiy.   Children these days . . .

And then there was that incident with you, me, and an asteroid the night before last...

<snicker>

[Soreyes]

when I do get online look a nice droner ship to come after you with type 4 drones.

May I suggest you fly the D5D then? That would require you to fly Klink and I wouldn't wish that fait upon anyone...

However, if you insist to go down the droner path, the D5D is pretty much the only drone boat that has a chance to prevail in PvP, albeit slim, but it can be done. DieHard knows what I'm talkin' about. Don'tcha, DieHard?

May I suggest the Z- HDW1     4 B-racks, 2 C-Racks, 2 ADD, 2 Disr, 4 Ph-1s, 2 phas-3s, 3 shuttles, 2 Masif III Ftrs    You can run around at speed 31 with 4 ECM, and still charge all your weapons

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

One suggestion for KIm i got though, read slowly and carefully the  chatt logs Firesoul posted.

I read those, several days back.  In them the representative of the accused promised Firesoul that the name-use was due to misunderstanding about what Firesoul's "permission to use" meant, and they agreed to respect his wishes and not use the name OP+.

Now I come here and find this thread.  (Wow, you miss all the hot stuff when you have a busy day and don't check every thread.)

If they'd already agreed not to use the name, what was the issue?  Did I miss something?  Did the accused write back and say, "screw what my friend says; I'm using your name and you can't stop me?"  I don't know.  I never went to his forum.  Maybe he *did* do that.  But if his organization had already agreed not to use the name OP+, what was the need for a flame campaign?

-S'Cipio  

Exactly Scipio 

Unfortunately some people just delight in flaming for its own sake instead of being constructive.

[FPF-DieHard]

In defense of the flamers, a history does exist between many of them and Morpheous that we are not aware of.

Let's keep this in mind before passing judgement

[Evil Kraven]

yup, exactly right die hard. as I stated in my previous post, without the calling on the carpet, and ripping him to shreds, Princess morphous would have done what princess morphous wanted to do. reguardless of anyone else.

what I really can't understand. is how anyone involoved in a communtiy is willing to show tolerence to a thief.

its not the hitting of his board that bothered him, or the ripping he got on d2 boards. its the ripping he got in the GSA lobby that put him on his knees. thats where he got hurt the most.

come on now, he sent out a fricken spam mail about OPPLUS 4.0

said it had the backing of fire soul (which it did not,and misunderstanding my ass. he got caught plain and simple) and was spamming the gsa lobby with it.

yeah the horse is dead I agree, why keep beating on it right?

well everyone wants to get thier two cents in maybe?

"The Evil One"
Kraven

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

I understand, however, that past history was not on these forums.

Now to calmly state what such a past history was in order to inform folks here and to warn us about such individuals is perfectly fine IMHO.  But to bring a free for all flame fest full of personal attacks doesn't seem to be in our best interest.  About a year ago I posted a petition on Taldren where many if not most of our members signed on in opposition to such personal attacks.  Criticism of a persons actions is one thing, but a personal attack is another no matter how well deserved.

I don't mind people having grudges and past history, etc., but lets settle them calmly, rationally, and with a certain civility......and if we can't do that lets at least confine our remarks to the issues and not into the realm of vulgarity (except in the case of Kroma and Likkerpig of course )  There are forums other than these where such things might be viewed as acceptable but I don't think they are here, at least not by a significant portion of our community.  I put up my poll to check the facts on this before posting this response and it seems to support my views as of this time.  The former anti-personal attack petition seems to still hold the appeal it did when I origionally put it up and most of you signed on, so lets try to honor and preserve it as was agreed to by those who signed.

[Laflin]

Can anyone here remember just playing the game to have fun with some people that you barely knew?  Those days seem to be going - tell me things haven't changed

[Evil Kraven]

chutt,

while I agree with you that personal attacks 95% of the time do no good and only cause animosity. there are that slim 5% where yeah not only is it warrented, but its needed to keep people from shoveing it.....well you know where. this just happend to be one of those 5% deals.

his personal history needed not be on these boards chutt. read the chat logs between fire soul and WGL. the one with morphous alone should tell you what kind of a individual he is, and he had all intention of continueing to use the name untill he got leveled.

I fully agree with you though. flaming gets you no where. unless its on those........ok lets say 1%.

sure I've seen some passionate issues here and on the taldren boards. thats a good thing. shows passion for a game and that people care. but yeah it is just a game and its alot of fun.

at the same time there will be those who try to do things with the favorite line "for the better of the community" when its really about thier own agenda. and when, as in this case, theft....not a "misunderstanding" mind you, but theft.....the community needs to rise up and say "no this is wrong and we will not stand for it......and in doing so it is not for our own agenda, but for the betterment of the community.

I seriously doubt anyone will try to steal someone elses work agian........
look at what happend .......

I don't think myself that I flamed the sh*t out of him. but I called a spade a spade. so did alot of others. this flame was needed for the good of the community. it drew alot of us together. ok kim was'nt to happy, oh well, don't read the posts if its gonna get you upset. I suggest kim stay away from contraverseal, or passionate topics in the future.

 if it looks like a duck....quacks like a duck.....walks like a duck....
drinks scotch like a duck......well you can pretty much say its.....

KHH Shadowlord

LOL

chocolate chip cookie anyone?

"The Evil One"
Kraven

re read ur post: hey you know what I'll sign on to that. I can rip someone without useing volgarity. but isn't your post attacking flamers? lol

[Mazeppa]

I understand, however, that past history was not on these forums.

Now to calmly state what such a past history was in order to inform folks here and to warn us about such individuals is perfectly fine IMHO.  But to bring a free for all flame fest full of personal attacks doesn't seem to be in our best interest.  About a year ago I posted a petition on Taldren where many if not most of our members signed on in opposition to such personal attacks.  Criticism of a persons actions is one thing, but a personal attack is another no matter how well deserved.

Here is the problem with the past history issues.  Morpheous is a ladder player.  The ladder/league players have their own forums, and those forums are NOT usually the D2 forums on Taldren or ANY forums on Dynaverse.net.  Those forums are on WGL or GZ.

KHH and GDA pilots are probably two of the very few fleets that participate in GSA (In the GZ League) and the Dynaverse.  I do not know of ANY WGL players exceppt maybe Damaged666 that is a Dynaverse and WGL player. 

So, when Firesoul posts his concerns on this forum, it does not matter.  people had to go to the place where the WGL was....GSA.

If you want to see what kind of person Morpheous is, see his response to KRollings very, very polite post on the WGL forums:

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod;action=display;num=1090277409

[Green]

I understand, however, that past history was not on these forums.

Now to calmly state what such a past history was in order to inform folks here and to warn us about such individuals is perfectly fine IMHO.  But to bring a free for all flame fest full of personal attacks doesn't seem to be in our best interest.  About a year ago I posted a petition on Taldren where many if not most of our members signed on in opposition to such personal attacks.  Criticism of a persons actions is one thing, but a personal attack is another no matter how well deserved.

Here is the problem with the past history issues.  Morpheous is a ladder player.  The ladder/league players have their own forums, and those forums are NOT usually the D2 forums on Taldren or ANY forums on Dynaverse.net.  Those forums are on WGL or GZ.

KHH and GDA pilots are probably two of the very few fleets that participate in GSA (In the GZ League) and the Dynaverse.  I do not know of ANY WGL players exceppt maybe Damaged666 that is a Dynaverse and WGL player. 

So, when Firesoul posts his concerns on this forum, it does not matter.  people had to go to the place where the WGL was....GSA.

If you want to see what kind of person Morpheous is, see his response to KRollings very, very polite post on the WGL forums:

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod;action=display;num=1090277409

He really wasn't doing bad in his response until he had to post the last paragraph...

You people on the Dynaverse.net can choke on your own pride for I care and instead of thinking of the just a name of something look at the bigger picture of the community trying to save the gaming lobby.

Thanks for pointing it out Maz. 

[Slider]

On Firesoul:
The issue was what corporate suits call "Branding"

Firesoul has not copyright in fact the material he uses is probably Armadillo's. However the name "OP+" is his Brand and as a matter of repect should honored by everyone.

Now if someone wants to build on it they he allows them too and they can mention that in a Readme.txt file saying "this add-on is built using OP+ as a foundation, thank you Firesoul".

On GSA guys,Dyna Guys and Morph/WGL:
Comminity is getting smaller we have reached out to our brothers and our brothers have reached out to us.

Players, NOT GZ or Dyna, went after Mr. Morph. they went after him because he tapped into a Brand that did not belong to him, further his replies were antagonistic and defiant. He made false claims that caused him to further lose respect.

As a frequent forum poster of political view points I follow this saying like the Bible:

When you have the Law, argue the Law.
When you have the Facts argue the Facts.
When you have neither, call people names, lie, and argue pointlessly.

I think we know where Morph ended up on this scale.

Further, not than anyone cares, Morph claims to want to unify, yet it was him and his team that caused the very visible split that finally gave him EAW and GZ happily went to OP.
Now after they have lost EAW they come to OP to "unify us.

I think not.

I think whats amazng is that 2 communities Backed -up Firesoul...THATS Cool for the internet.

On Rollings and Jakle:
1.jakle had no way of knowing she was on the verge of quiting.

2.If your going to talk in public you have to have thick skin. I assure you Morph DID NOT change the name cause Rollings asked nicely. He changed it cause he was getting backlash from the very people he's trying to attract, period.

***On the Role playing side.....if you mess with Jakle then you mess with me, We Klingons will stick together even if we then kill each other afterward. No that Jakle will accpt my assitance but I'll fight anyway. So bring it on.

See yo on the spaceways Cowboys.

Onward!

Slider aka Legendary

[Green]

Some very good points Leg.  As a reader, not necessarily a poster of the saga, the response to Morph crossed the genre.  It wasn?t limited to ?only D2? or ?only GZ? or ?only GSA? players. 

PS - you're a p00py head

[Bonk]

Firesoul has not copyright in fact the material he uses is probably Armadillo's. However the name "OP+" is his Brand and as a matter of repect should honored by everyone.

Speaking of brands...

ACCKK!! ITS NOT ARMADILLO! ITS AMARILLO, DANGNABBIT! AMARILLO!!! OK?   
(sorry to shout, this one drives me nuts, as I've posted before, complete with diagrams...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=amarillo%20design%20bureau

[Strafer]

ACCKK!! ITS NOT ARMADILLO! ITS AMARILLO DANGNABBIT AMARILLO!!! OK?   

Amaretto? Not my thing but sure, I'll have some...

*runs*

[Bonk]

lol, smarty pants... sounds tasty to me right about now actually... 

[Ravok]

Firesoul has not copyright in fact the material he uses is probably Armadillo's. However the name "OP+" is his Brand and as a matter of repect should honored by everyone.

Speaking of brands...

ACCKK!! ITS NOT ARMADILLO! ITS AMARILLO, DANGNABBIT! AMARILLO!!! OK?   
(sorry to shout, this one drives me nuts, as I've posted before, complete with diagrams...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=amarillo%20design%20bureau

 I have been to the liberry and concorded absolutely that it is Armadillo.
I have checked and checked, and its conductive.

[Bonk]

Oh great, another one... 

The only reason this really bugs me is that it is referred to as the Armadillo Design Bureau on all the SFC disk covers except version 1 (its correct) and version 3 (its absent ).

It always strikes me funny though, trying to picture an "Armadillo Design Bureau"... like evolution/God didn't do a good enough job... perhaps its some secret military project... killer gm armadillos coming soon to a front near you... lol.

[Strafer]

Oh great, another one... 

Be glad Dizzy's taking a small break, you might hear about Kim's Armed Di*COUGH-COUGH*... ahem sorry about that!

[Dallas]

lol, smarty pants... sounds tasty to me right about now actually... 

My pants sound tastey to you right about now?!?!?!?!

And people actually have the nerve to say that "I" need professional help.    

[Bonk]

No, no.. the amaretto...   

Though I prefer sambucca flamed with fresh dark crushed coffee beans.

I better quit while I'm ahead here, lol...

[Slider]

I stand corrected its Amarillo Design Bureau, Inc.

Now you may notice I didnt flame. These tow gentlemen on either side of me, Ronin and Nihm, have underneath their trenchcoats Klingon painsitcks with voltage boosters which they say they will use on me if I flame in here.

So.....

mumbles....

Onward!

Legendary (Im a Lyran dammit not a damn watchdog)


Democracy is two Feds and a Klingon voting on who should colonize an M-class planet. Liberty is a well-armed Klingon contesting the vote!

[Astarte]

Amaretto? Not my thing but sure, I'll have some...

*runs*

You've been visiting too often.  Look familiar?



Unfortunately its all gone.  Goes rreally nice in my coffee.

[Ravok]

Oh great, another one... 

The only reason this really bugs me is that it is referred to as the Armadillo Design Bureau on all the SFC disk covers except version 1 (its correct) and version 3 (its absent ).

It always strikes me funny though, trying to picture an "Armadillo Design Bureau"... like evolution/God didn't do a good enough job... perhaps its some secret military project... killer gm armadillos coming soon to a front near you... lol.

   I got the same picture in my mind. Except mine hsd G-2s Heavy photons and an ESG.

[762_XC]

I have nothing more to add to this thread, except to state that amaretto is for girly men!

[likkerpig]

The drink of "real" men!


None of them foo-foo liqueurs, high falutin' scotch or fermented toenail fungus (tequila)!

It makes me fly gooder!

[FireSoul]

Amaretto? Not my thing but sure, I'll have some...

*runs*

You've been visiting too often.  Look familiar?



Unfortunately its all gone.  Goes rreally nice in my coffee.

Woah.. you drank it ALL? 
.. When did I get you this bottle? Last week? .. Jesus Sam! That stuff's expensive! 

[Astarte]

Woah.. you drank it ALL? 
.. When did I get you this bottle? Last week? .. Jesus Sam! That stuff's expensive! 

I did say I drank it in my coffee...

...and well..you know me and my coffee...

*eyes Strafer suspiciously*

Besides...I don't ask you to buy it all the time.  *grins*  A nice red wine works.

*giggles and runs away*

[Mazeppa]

Firesoul has not copyright in fact the material he uses is probably Armadillo's. However the name "OP+" is his Brand and as a matter of repect should honored by everyone.

Speaking of brands...

ACCKK!! ITS NOT ARMADILLO! ITS AMARILLO, DANGNABBIT! AMARILLO!!! OK?   
(sorry to shout, this one drives me nuts, as I've posted before, complete with diagrams...)

http://www.google.com/search?q=amarillo%20design%20bureau

 I have been to the liberry and concorded absolutely that it is Armadillo.
I have checked and checked, and its conductive.

Did you folks know an Armadillo has to go to music school for six years before it can become a charrango?

[KAT Chuut-Ritt]

The drink of "real" men!


None of them foo-foo liqueurs, high falutin' scotch or fermented toenail fungus (tequila)!

It makes me fly gooder!

Yup thats it pig!

Here is a Pic of Chuut and Likkerpig preparing for logging onto the Dynaverse

[likkerpig]

Hee hee!
I must be the guy sweating because I hate ties!
Next round is yours!

[FPF-DrAzteca]

 

[Bonk]

Sorry to bump this, but I just had to. Well worth another read, interesting history and characters. Not to dredge up old ghosts but.. well yes I guess it is.

A candidate for Classic Flamefests?

[FPF-Paladin]

Please tell me this was settled and they're no longer plagiarizing you?

I'm quiet on the boards.. well apparently quiet most of the time lol... but I'd take it badly to hear you're still having problems with this.

[Bonk]

Oh, the original issue is long dead. I just turned up this thread on a search for "Cutty Sark", found it an interesting thread to re-read, so I thought I'd bump it, a number of lessons here.

[FPF-Paladin]