Topic: Someone is stealing the name and idea OP+ from me!

[FireSoul]

Everybody, read this!

http://wgleague.com/opplus4.0.html

<Googlebut>   With the full backing of the creator of the OPPLUS 3.3, WGL introduces the OPPLUS 4.0 !!! Adds 7 New Competitive Races to your Orion Pirates. Downloads are available at http://www.wgleague.com . A forum area has been created for Q&A's just click on FORUMS.
<Googlebut>   Model Files has their own folder and will not over write any Models you presently have..

You can use my work, BUT DON'T STEAL MY IDEAS! Call it something else. These guys contacted me to try to join their 'thing' and I said no. I was quoted that people can use OP+ as they see fit. But to STEAL MY WORK AND MAKE IT THEIR OWN?!!

.. well.
There's not going to be any more anything from me until they back off. OP+ is my reputation.


-- Luc
FireSoul

[FireSoul]

Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      hey man, we had a guy talk to u last night
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      and he said you said it was ok to do so
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      misunderstanding I suppose
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      his name was Andi
FireSoul   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      Well Andi can go **** himself. the OP+ name is recognized, and you just stole it.
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:51 PM)
      goes by the MSN callsign of Skeletor Sausage
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      look bro you don't need to get defensive
FireSoul   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      Call it something else. understood?
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      it can be taken off
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      sure
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      I can't do much about the host as he's afk but I'll be sure not to pass it around until we can get it fixed
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:52 PM)
      sorry about the misunderstanding
FireSoul   (07/18/04 21:53 PM)
      I told them that they could do whatever they want with OP+. .. But taking the name crosses the line.
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:54 PM)
      besides we weren't stealing your reputation infact we gave you credit for the work you did on the 3.3 all over as to where were advertising it, but in any case
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:54 PM)
      the message is clear and it was a misunderstanding
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:54 PM)
      we'll get it fixed
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:54 PM)
      sorry about the porblem
FireSoul   (07/18/04 21:55 PM)
      I'll log off. I'm screaming pissed and no need to expose more to it. Later.
Googlebut   (07/18/04 21:55 PM)
      when we hand out our new version we'll make sure to advertise that the previous version was not affiliated with the OPplus ship name, we'll get that cleaned up for you so there's no misunderstanding in the long run

That's not good enough because I'm going to continue to make OP+ projects with version increases. Call it something else.

[FireSoul]

They'll clean it up, I've been told.

Googlebut   (07/18/04 22:05 PM)
      look firesoul I am sorry this confusion happened but we'll make sure to clean it up and leave the name you created alone

FireSoul   (07/18/04 22:06 PM)
      thank you.

[Bonk]

Glad to hear it. (I was getting worried)

How about WG-OP 1.0? (makes sense to me).

[FireSoul]

Glad to hear it. (I was getting worried)

How about WG-OP 1.0? (makes sense to me).

They can call it whatever they want,.. and still use everything I've done. But I refuse to let them take the identity of the work along with the reputation.

[Bonk]

Understandably so.

[E_Look]

Good to see you stand your ground.

This is more common than anybody realizes.

A famous (well, to my world, anyway) researcher many years back published an intentionally incorrect fact.  Many others jumped on it and tried to reproduce it and call it their own.  Obviously, it didn't work.  Then, a little later he published a "correction" after he was able to do it more safely.

Lots of backroom backstabbing baloney... everywhere.

I hope your case gets a tad more publicity and thus become a bit of a deterrence.  I hate thieves, too.

And, it's mighty big of you to still be so generous with your work, even after all that.

[FireSoul]

.. besides.. the idea of OP+ is to play with a mod that doesn't remove anything Taldren has made (unless it's a correction). Additions have to come from official ADB material, preferably printed as an actual module for SFB.

With the mod presented here has 7 pirate races removed and replaced, and it's not based on SFB material, such as Cardassian ships and other such things. It's just not the same.

[KBF-Crim]

Shew...glad you got it worked out...

[Age]

  I would say that most OP players will recognize your work and OP+ any time.I would say that most people would come to your defense but you solved it which will make you rest easy.It a shame that someone would do this though and you can't even get an international copyright on it.

[FireSoul]

interesting link..

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Why don't we all go give our opinion of this matter?

[Bonk]

I would avoid linking his site in future, it appears as there are ads on it that may be paying him for every view?

I say just wait to see if he changes the name of his mod, if not - hit him where it hurts...

[Age]

interesting link..

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Why don't we all go give our opinion of this matter?

The site is down and I tried twice in the D2 forum.You might want to talk to Strat about this as he is a member of gz.league if that is the same as wg.league.I would check out his mod chooser as well to see if OP+ is yours.

[FireSoul]

WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      join me on teamspeak
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      do you have it?
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      leav eme alone.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      dude we either talk or we dont change the name
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      your choice
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      change the name.
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      2- leave me alone.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:27 PM)
      like I said
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      when the last time you did anything for this community?
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      WHAT?
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      1 year back
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      WHAAT?
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      not GZ
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      for the community
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      I've been doing stuff almost nightly.
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:28 PM)
      Where've you been?
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:29 PM)
      I been here
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:29 PM)
      whats did you do new latly
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:29 PM)
      change the name. Use something else.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:29 PM)
      or is that why there is only 17 people here
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      you guys need to get a grip
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      a dieing communtiy
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      and all you want to do is bicker about the name
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      you will CHANGE the name.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      No I wont
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:30 PM)
      and nothing you do will make me
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:31 PM)
      obviously not.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:31 PM)
      first time dealing with me I see
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:31 PM)
      go back to your GZ bud and stay in hibernation
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:34 PM)
      if you had a better attitude when you approached google I may have changed it
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:34 PM)
      but you where being a ***
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:35 PM)
      and all about yourself not the commuinty
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:35 PM)
      Change the name. I gave you permission to use any and all of the mod, but you took the reputation and identity of my work on top of that. You don't have my support for that. Change the name.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:37 PM)
      Sorry bud until you relize that the 3.3 hasnt change in the Mod the better off you will be
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:37 PM)
      plus I did need your permission
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:37 PM)
      did,'t
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:37 PM)
      didn't
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:37 PM)
      need your permiission

(etc..)

[FireSoul]

WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:42 PM)
      you modified the original shiplist and named it for yourself
FireSoul   (07/19/04 17:42 PM)
      and created a new name for it.
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:43 PM)
      shiplist is a text file dude
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:43 PM)
      maybe next time you will spend the money and get a copyright
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:43 PM)
      or maybe I will do it
WGL-Morpheous-[RIG]   (07/19/04 17:44 PM)
      then I will actual steal it like you say I am

[FireSoul]

I've been accused of not producing anything for over a year....

Let me tell you...... that in this year, 2004 alone, ...

1- OPPLUS
OP+ 3.2: 20040116
OP+ 3.3: 20040512
.. next OP+: in progress.

2- scripts:
Fests+_11.exe - 20040228
Coopace: has an update coming. Been working on it all last week.
SFC:OP Models Tester 1.23 - 20040627

3- Models:
NUMEROUS models.. all the Fed NCAs and NCLs you see in OP+ and many many
others.. as well as an entire review of each and every model in OP+ 3.2
for OP+ 3.3. etc! many in 2004.



Ultimately, his OPPLUS version 4.0 is a perversion of my works, as well as a violation of my reputation and my identity. It must change its name to something else than OPPLUS and stop saying that it's trying to emulate my work. It's definitely not:

The only part of the OP+ 3.3 that was modified for this MOD
was the 7 Orion Cartels. Those cartels where changed to
incorperate the 7 New races.
 
Bellow are the list of the New races:
 
Dominion
Andromedians
Cardassian
Kazon
Species8472
Cylons
MaQuis

-- Luc

[FA Frey XC]

IS this the same RIG Morpheous that used to be a part of GT?

I wonder... because it would be just like him to try and make a name off someone elses hard work.

Besides, FireSoul - intellectual property right laws are all on your side. He has admitted he is "stealing" it already - your chat transcript shows that clearly. Formally notify him via the technical contact for the website listed in DNS and then if they do not remove it I'll put you in contact with a Lawyer that LOVES to sue for Intellectual Property Rights theft.

I will be making the necessary posts on the XC Website, XC forums and in D.Net letting everyone know if they are using said V4 then they are contributing to Intellectual property theft.

It's too bad for every bad apple that we toss out of here, another seems to appear to take it's place. Rest assured, RIG Morpheous will be found wanting. He didn't live up to all his smack talk when myself and the rest of XC told him to put up or shut up. I doubt he will now.

The man has no honor.

Regards,

[Javora]

I don't know who this Morpheous person is but with an attitude like that I will never download anything from them.  Anyway if our community is "dying" then why does Morpheous care anything about this anyway?  What does Morpheous think his precious little mod going is going to bring back Taldren and Interplay and have SFC OP flying off the shelves like a game has never sold before??!?  If anything this Id10t is just going to split the community and bring down SFC even faster.   

[Katherine]

ohh my

[SSCF-Rolling]

I want everyone to stay calm.

If you are going to post, then post like intellectuals, not like cave men.

Cool heads and understanding will get us farther on this matter.

Thanks.

[Age]

  I can not access the site from home only at the office and from what I read it seems that Morphoeus won,t do anything about it.I would say this that anything on this site is the Intellectual Property of Xeno Corp as they are hosting it and this includes all the data on Taldrens former forums as well.I know Frey's hosting your site and that includes it as well.I tried posting but like all boards you need to be a member and I don't want to be a member of that forum.There is one ugly thing you could is to bad mouth that forum on others.

  I would suggest posting this in Game Spy Arcade forums as well.I know that SFGD forums will support as well.This will take some time but don't worry about it to much you know is supporting you.We know whose work that really is I would say that is what really counts just be patient.I would release another OP+ for awhile besides you have all the material for it don't you eg. models if they lose them they are stuck.I hope all the support that we are giving you will make you rest easy.   

[Age]

ohh my

I hope SFGD will support FireSoul in this matter.

[USS Mariner]

IS this the same RIG Morpheous that used to be a part of GT?

I wonder... because it would be just like him to try and make a name off someone elses hard work.

Besides, FireSoul - intellectual property right laws are all on your side. He has admitted he is "stealing" it already - your chat transcript shows that clearly. Formally notify him via the technical contact for the website listed in DNS and then if they do not remove it I'll put you in contact with a Lawyer that LOVES to sue for Intellectual Property Rights theft.

I will be making the necessary posts on the XC Website, XC forums and in D.Net letting everyone know if they are using said V4 then they are contributing to Intellectual property theft.

It's too bad for every bad apple that we toss out of here, another seems to appear to take it's place. Rest assured, RIG Morpheous will be found wanting. He didn't live up to all his smack talk when myself and the rest of XC told him to put up or shut up. I doubt he will now.

The man has no honor.

Regards,

Well then, I guess FireSoul's all set to take 'em out...

"It may be a dirty, nasty, downright disgusting job, but some shthead's gotta get it done."

BTW Luc, how much would you sue for if this assh0le wants to take it to the courts?

Edited to remove curse.  There is NO cursing on this forum!

[Strafer]

BTW Luc, how much would you sue for if this assh0le wants to take it to the courts?

I think it'd be more a cease&desist order.

[FA Frey XC]

  I can not access the site from home only at the office and from what I read it seems that Morphoeus won,t do anything about it.I would say this that anything on this site is the Intellectual Property of Xeno Corp as they are hosting it and this includes all the data on Taldrens former forums as well.I know Frey's hosting your site and that includes it as well.I tried posting but like all boards you need to be a member and I don't want to be a member of that forum.There is one ugly thing you could is to bad mouth that forum on others.

  I would suggest posting this in Game Spy Arcade forums as well.I know that SFGD forums will support as well.This will take some time but don't worry about it to much you know is supporting you.We know whose work that really is I would say that is what really counts just be patient.I would release another OP+ for awhile besides you have all the material for it don't you eg. models if they lose them they are stuck.I hope all the support that we are giving you will make you rest easy.   

This is not correct, although I do believe I understand what you are trying to say Age.

Were this my Fleet website, then yes everything would be considered "property of XC" as that's a part of the conditions when you join the Fleet.

I host FireSouls site for free because he's earned it.

And that's the point here isn't it? People work HARD to do the voodoo that they do do, and because of that when I got the opportunity to help out and support FireSoul I took it. If you support FireSoul's work, then make sure others understand you won't support anyone that rips off his work and try's to sell it as their own to further their own personal agenda. And Kim, I'd had expected you to volunteer the rolling pin, not popped off like another intellectual cheerleader.

In matters such as this, I brook no resistance because I KNOW for a fact FireSoul's worth it and earned that respect. I would say the same for anyone that had to deal with such a callous lack of respect for anothers work.

Regards,

[Sirgod]

I have to Agree with Frey here Age. Firesoul has earned all of our respect, and Does in fact Deserve this.

BTW Frey, Can I have a Job?  J/K bro.

Stephen

[FireSoul]

BTW Luc, how much would you sue for if this assh0le wants to take it to the courts?

I think it'd be more a cease&desist order.

I think hurting them where it hurts more, a boycott of this mod, is where it would hurt most.

[FireSoul]

I host FireSouls site for free because he's earned it.

And I will forever be thankful for it. You bailed me out Frey.. You really did.

[FireSoul]

I got an email from Morpheous. I want to know what you guys think before I agree with his compromise. I drew you all into this, I want to know your opinions.

The email:

So here is the compromise:
I call it the WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on
And you make it public that you accept the Terms of our agreement and back
the mod as a Add-On to the 3.3.

Business is business and you did give us the permission. We just never
discussed the Name of it to you.

I believe this is appropriate. I would be even happier if it's called version 1.0. I will have to make it clear to him that there is no agreement whatsoever. I was recorded saying that anybody can do anything with any parts of the mod. He's open to do whatever he can within the confines of the license accompanying the mod.

And OP+ is not Business, it's way personal.

What do you guys think?

-- Luc
FireSoul

[Age]

I have to Agree with Frey here Age. Firesoul has earned all of our respect, and Does in fact Deserve this.

BTW Frey, Can I have a Job?  J/K bro.

Stephen

Yeah I know.I don't want to register on that forum because I don't want to support it.This why I say make posting on GSA forum about this.I am sorry this happenig to you FireSoul.I am not sure why I can't get access to it.

[Sirgod]

I have to Agree with Frey here Age. Firesoul has earned all of our respect, and Does in fact Deserve this.

BTW Frey, Can I have a Job?  J/K bro.

Stephen

Yeah I know.I don't want to register on that forum because I don't want to support it.This why I say make posting on GSA forum about this.I am sorry this happenig to you FireSoul.I am not sure why I can't get access to it.

Are you talking about Xenocorps, or the other forum? XenoCorps rocks Age. A great group of Honorable Players.

Stephen

[Age]

I got an email from Morpheous. I want to know what you guys think before I agree with his compromise. I drew you all into this, I want to know your opinions.

The email:

So here is the compromise:
I call it the WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on
And you make it public that you accept the Terms of our agreement and back
the mod as a Add-On to the 3.3.

Business is business and you did give us the permission. We just never
discussed the Name of it to you.

I believe this is appropriate. I would be even happier if it's called version 1.0. I will have to make it clear to him that there is no agreement whatsoever. I was recorded saying that anybody can do anything with any parts of the mod. He's open to do whatever he can within the confines of the license accompanying the mod.

And OP+ is not Business, it's way personal.

What do you guys think?

-- Luc
FireSoul

Well you don't sell OP+ for profit so it is not a Business and it is more like a Hobby so it would be personal.There is no written agreement between yourself and this person so the deal is not valid.

[Age]

I have to Agree with Frey here Age. Firesoul has earned all of our respect, and Does in fact Deserve this.

BTW Frey, Can I have a Job?  J/K bro.

Stephen

Yeah I know.I don't want to register on that forum because I don't want to support it.This why I say make posting on GSA forum about this.I am sorry this happenig to you FireSoul.I am not sure why I can't get access to it.

Are you talking about Xenocorps, or the other forum? XenoCorps rocks Age. A great group of Honorable Players.

Stephen

I am talking about XenoCorps if this is the one we are posting on Dyna.net and it does have some of Taldrens DB on it.

[FireSoul]

Well you don't sell OP+ for profit so it is not a Business and it is more like a Hobby so it would be personal.There is no written agreement between yourself and this person so the deal is not valid.

Indeed..
I am currently thinking this:
1- we have no argeement or terms of agreement.
2- I will not back him or his organization. Not after this.
3- Just change the damned name and leave "opplus" out of it. Samantha is right: calling it "WGLOP+ 3.3 Add-on" does not depict any originality and as such still isn't good enough. Call it "WGL 7 Races mod" like you used to.

I need to think. I need opinions too, folks.  Oh.. and please note that his email states that it was childish of me to take it public on GSA. This is personal, Morph, and I am taking it to my friends so that they can help me.

-- Luc

[Strat]

interesting link..

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Why don't we all go give our opinion of this matter?

The site is down and I tried twice in the D2 forum.You might want to talk to Strat about this as he is a member of gz.league if that is the same as wg.league.I would check out his mod chooser as well to see if OP+ is yours.

1) I have nothing to do with WGL, far as I'm concerned it run by egomaniacs. 
2) The Mod Chooser what?  It doesn't include any lists, or name them; it only changes out ones people install. 
3) GZ and WGL having nothing to do with each other either.  Run by different people with different morals.

-----

4) I would prefer the name of thier add-on to OP NOT have the 'OP+' or 'OPPlus' or '4.0' or '3.3+' idealology or anything that would allow the mod to constrewed as haveing been related to, in support of, being supported by, or just anything what so ever conecting the two works.
5) This is also important so that the OP+ 'name' not be viewed as a mod that is bias to any group or organization laying claim to OP or it's base of players. (Notice that was one of WGL's claims)
6) WGL & its Administration already has a bad reputation for childish things such as this.  Best not have any connection to it if at all possible.  For that matter, best not to let it claim any connection to you FireSoul, or your Work, or anything that was made not by him or his organization.
7) I know there's not much I can do, but you have my full support in maintaining the 'name' of your Work.

And those are my opinions.

-Strat

[KBF-Crim]

IMHO...just letting us know should be enough...unleashing a rabid band of taldrenites ANYWHERE is a fate none will risk freely...

You can see it as an "oversite"...or a direct attempt to rip you off...that's your choice....

But like Jinn said....put up something for DL on the net and you lose control over what some idiot can do with it......unless you have HUGE bucks and a whole fleet of Jinn's...

It's unfortunate that all people arent as honorable as they "could" be....but it's also predictable....

In the end...I'd say...

"Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery"

But hit em over the head anyways.....just for general purposes....heh heh

[SSCF-Rolling]

Quoted from Morpheous.....

But after all consideration we did modify the name to WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on. 
Thats about as far as I am going to change it, just because of the fact. If you fly Federation in either my mod or firesouls mod it is still the 3.3 and I will not take that from him. I will not claim the original 8 races as my own, like everybody is suggesting. So this will be the name of it WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on  and thats the end of this descussion.

The name has changed.

Please go thank him.

[Bonk]

So here is the compromise:
I call it the WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on
And you make it public that you accept the Terms of our agreement and back
the mod as a Add-On to the 3.3.

"WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on" - sounds like a reasonable compromise to me - it is certainly better than "OPPLUS 4.0". "WGLOP 7Races Add-on" would be even better (no +). Why not just "WGLOP" - if its any good it will evolve on its own. Simpler is better for the name. I don't know about backing the mod though after this.

I would agree if the downloaded file, installer and any shortcuts are all billed as "WGLOP..." (looking for the loopholes...)

I would take this opportunity for compromise, if you can get him to go with ""WGLOP 7Races Add-on" with the caveat that you are not assocoated with it in any way.

I know it would be caving, but I'm tempted to suggest you change the name of your shiplist to:
"FireSoul's OP shiplist" or "OPLuc 3.4" and modify your website to the new name and add a full explanation for the name change and the disclaimer that any version of OP+ beyond 3.3 is not yours and is not OP+ at all.
Perhaps a strategically located webpage with some cagey metatags will catch those searching on the web...

Some interesting search results:
http://www.google.ca/search?q=OP%2B&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&btnG=Google+Search&meta=
http://www.google.ca/search?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&q=OPPLUS&btnG=Search&meta=

I suggest adding the appropritae metatags to your webpages and registering with the search engines.
This may ensure you come up first on a search (though that can develop into a silly metatag war...).

edit: I see the name has changed and the page is removed, thats cool. I also notice he's running IIS...

[FireSoul]

I certainly do not want to be affiliated with him, however I am happy status quo has been restored. I will never support this person and/or group ever again for any endeavour they will embark on as my generosity has been abused.

I see no reason to reply to his compromise at this time. That will only prolong contact and I may say something that will make things worse. To thank him for this change would make him feel that he's correct in his actions, and that may be advantageous for his and his group's schemes.

Therefore, I think it's better that his vompromise remains unreplied.

-- Luc

[RogueJedi_XC]

Copyright in this area may be somewhat ambiguous...OP+ is a derivative work so you may not have a very strong footing in that area.
However, OP+ is your mark in trade, or in more conventional English -- your Trademark.
In the U.S. you have to register a trade mark for most legal protections. The loophole for that is that if you can prove that you are generally known to do business under a particular mark, then you have a leg up on anyone else that tries to use that same name in the same industry.

The long and the short of it is, he cannot use "OP+", "OPPlus", or any variation of that may induce others to think he is you.

His "compromise" attempts to make it sound like he has the power because you granted permission to do whatever he wanted with the work. In fact, you have the power in this instance due to trademark.

Don't cave on this. You are in the right.

[FireSoul]

Copyright in this area may be somewhat ambiguous...OP+ is a derivative work so you may not have a very strong footing in that area.
However, OP+ is your mark in trade, or in more conventional English -- your Trademark.
In the U.S. you have to register a trade mark for most legal protections. The loophole for that is that if you can prove that you are generally known to do business under a particular mark, then you have a leg up on anyone else that tries to use that same name in the same industry.

The long and the short of it is, he cannot use "OP+", "OPPlus", or any variation of that may induce others to think he is you.

His "compromise" attempts to make it sound like he has the power because you granted permission to do whatever he wanted with the work. In fact, you have the power in this instance due to trademark.

Don't cave on this. You are in the right.

Indeed.

[USS Mariner]

Well, I hope thing work out. It seems like your pretty well set and backed up, so good luck to you. Maybe I'll get OP+ someday, if I can control myself from changing the specs though.

 


---

Frey, sorry bout that cussing. I'm just used to more "flexible" forums, that's all. Personally, I don't mind unedited swearing, if it's not the entire content of the post, but hey, your board, your rules. I apologise.

[KBF-Dogmatix_XC]

I got an email from Morpheous. I want to know what you guys think before I agree with his compromise. I drew you all into this, I want to know your opinions.

The email:

So here is the compromise:
I call it the WGLOP+ 7Races Add-on
And you make it public that you accept the Terms of our agreement and back
the mod as a Add-On to the 3.3.

Business is business and you did give us the permission. We just never
discussed the Name of it to you.

I believe this is appropriate. I would be even happier if it's called version 1.0. I will have to make it clear to him that there is no agreement whatsoever. I was recorded saying that anybody can do anything with any parts of the mod. He's open to do whatever he can within the confines of the license accompanying the mod.

And OP+ is not Business, it's way personal.

What do you guys think?

-- Luc
FireSoul

I think you're right on here, Luc.  I'm with you on the naming convention, as well.  Were it me, I'd want to see them start their naming at version 1.0.  The name needs to be adequately seperated from your work.  Calling their's "4.0" (ahead of your "3.3") where their's is actually and obviously only "1.0" is wrong, in my view.


I also thought it was funny that they said you haven't done anything "Lately" for this community.  Even if that were true, which is so obviously is not, it doesn't mean a damned thing.  Your contributions are legion.

[Rod ONeal]

OK. Why is Kim listed as a guest on her posts?  

[Sirgod]

I was wondering the same thing myself.

Stephen

[Age]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

[FireSoul]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

No.. It's actually very on-topic..

.. Kim got sick of us D2 people "acting like babies" when we acted in my defense of OP+ in that forum. She.. .. may have decided to have her account deleted and removed from these boards. I suggest you go read that thread in the D2 forum side of things..  Very similar name to this one.

[Age]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

No.. It's actually very on-topic..

.. Kim got sick of us D2 people "acting like babies" when we acted in my defense of OP+ in that forum. She.. .. may have decided to have her account deleted and removed from these boards. I suggest you go read that thread in the D2 forum side of things..  Very similar name to this one.

You are right she deleted her account and it no longer on the membership list.

[Rod ONeal]

You are right she deleted her account and it no longer on the membership list.

That's what I figured. I had read her posts. I hope that she has a change of heart. If any of you all have her e-mail maybe you could check on her? After all, she's one of the nicer people that we have around here, IMO, and this->  will be pretty haunting if she isn't around any more.

[Age]

    I guess LeRoy will have to have talk with her.

[Javora]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

No.. It's actually very on-topic..

.. Kim got sick of us D2 people "acting like babies" when we acted in my defense of OP+ in that forum. She.. .. may have decided to have her account deleted and removed from these boards. I suggest you go read that thread in the D2 forum side of things..  Very similar name to this one.

Did she have a personal stake in this Morpheous person and/or WGLOP+ 7 Add on?  The ?cave men? insult and then her untimely exit seemed a little over the top.  Especially since I didn?t see anything that warranted her comments from anyone up to that point.  Personally I don?t bare any ill will towards her, but if she doesn?t want to post here anymore that is her choice to make.  Firesoul has every right to defend all the hard work that he has put into his project.  And we as a community have every right to support him.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

No.. It's actually very on-topic..

.. Kim got sick of us D2 people "acting like babies" when we acted in my defense of OP+ in that forum. She.. .. may have decided to have her account deleted and removed from these boards. I suggest you go read that thread in the D2 forum side of things..  Very similar name to this one.

Firesoul, WGL is about dead anyways ... Morpheous has a habit of stepping on toes.

Have you ever talked to him on TeamSpeak? I could get the TeamSpeak address for you. Perhaps too much is being misinterpreted in the written word here. Age put this topic up in the Tri-Mod forums and I have offered any support. Need anything from D-3 modders, let me know.

Your work has always spoken for itself.

<S>

WaterTiger

[CM.E.Kehakoul_XC]

 There is no doubt about the intentions Morpheous had, If we hadnt acted fast  he had succded with his foul play. There are times for diplomatic activities and times to Draw a line> I for my part posted him directly what i think he was up to, it was an attempt of blatant thievery which we stoped  and thats it.
As i was the first  who posted on their boards directly after firesouls response,i assume the "caveman" expression ,Kim used was also a tag for me.
I dont know that woman, and i object to brownnose people who just tryed to rip me off  ,one of my friends  or XC. I  will not excuse for that.

One suggestion for KIm i got though, read slowly and carefully the  chatt logs Firesoul posted.
IF you really  READ what  stands there you will eventually grasp what this guy tryed,and in what a jackass fashion.
 I doubt we need people like him arround,i even would go as far as saying we dont need people  who act like him at all.

weired times we live in, the just cause has to defend  itself.. ,..ODD.

Caveman...  CM.E.Kehakoul_XC

[Whoo]

Let me state for the record, GZ has, and will only support updates from Firesoul.

We have nothing to do with WGL and never have.

[Whoo]

interesting link..

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Why don't we all go give our opinion of this matter?

The site is down and I tried twice in the D2 forum.You might want to talk to Strat about this as he is a member of gz.league if that is the same as wg.league.I would check out his mod chooser as well to see if OP+ is yours.

GZ is same as WGL???
May you be turned into a tribble and pee'd on by a romulan :p

[Whoo]

I would like to say, after reading that conversation my views on this because I am tired of my hard work at GZ being crapped on by this meglomaniac.


*** EDIT***
DEAR MORPH
***/END EDIT***


#1-Firesoul did this for the community, GZ picked it up because of the dedicated work firesoul put into the game, making it FUN.  He did not design this for GZ, and to be honest he didnt know we were even using it until we talked with him on TS.
#2-Stop bringing my name into this.  You have a misconception that I am in some sort of competition with you, when in actuality I don't care.  Take your BQL league and your KB8's campaign and go off in your little corner of the world and leave me be.
#3-I had nothing to do with firesouls knowledge of you stealing his good name. When I was told about it, I simply assumed he gave you permission.  Foolish though, but thats what I thought.
#4-GZ by far is winding down, I have accepted this.  I intend to expand no further and have announced to the community that once the community loses interest, I will shut it down.  So stop f*cking with me, go away, do what ever it is you do between your god-of-one episodes on GSA and designing your new features on my Teamspeak.

I am very, very, very tired of this...
Keep me out of your affairs you netstalker

[FireSoul]

I would like to say, after reading that conversation my views on this because I am tired of my hard work at GZ being crapped on by this meglomaniac.

#1-Firesoul did this for the community, GZ picked it up because of the dedicated work firesoul put into the game, making it FUN.  He did not design this for GZ, and to be honest he didnt know we were even using it until we talked with him on TS.
#2-Stop bringing my name into this.  You have a misconception that I am in some sort of competition with you, when in actuality I don't care.  Take your BQL league and your KB8's campaign and go off in your little corner of the world and leave me be.
#3-I had nothing to do with firesouls knowledge of you stealing his good name. When I was told about it, I simply assumed he gave you permission.  Foolish though, but thats what I thought.
#4-GZ by far is winding down, I have accepted this.  I intend to expand no further and have announced to the community that once the community loses interest, I will shut it down.  So stop f*cking with me, go away, do what ever it is you do between your god-of-one episodes on GSA and designing your new features on my Teamspeak.

I am very, very, very tired of this...
Keep me out of your affairs you netstalker

Hi Whoo,

..to what/whom are you replying to? I'm a bit confused..

[Whoo]

I just read the conversation between you and Morph...

It wasnt directed at you

[Whoo]

There...
Fixed...

[Age]

interesting link..

http://wgleague.com/cgi-bin/yabb/YaBB.pl?board=mod

Why don't we all go give our opinion of this matter?

The site is down and I tried twice in the D2 forum.You might want to talk to Strat about this as he is a member of gz.league if that is the same as wg.league.I would check out his mod chooser as well to see if OP+ is yours.

GZ is same as WGL???
May you be turned into a tribble and pee'd on by a romulan :p

It is not working.

[Mazeppa]

The following message was sent out on what i think is a WGL spam list.  The links have been removed by now, they they were trying to hype this with your name, Firesoul.

To: "(DELETED)
CC:
Subject: OPPLUS 4.0 The 7 Races addon for OP
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Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

   
 
   
 
   
 
 

Nothing was Modified in the 8 Original Races. Only the Cartels were changed. 
This is a Add-on to the 3.3 OP+ by: FireSoul.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Content-Type: text/html; name="main.html"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64
Content-Description: main.html
Content-ID: <277645-2200470181332593530@wgl>


 
 

[FireSoul]

I just read the conversation between you and Morph...

It wasnt directed at you

I know it wasn't directed at me but..
.. ahhh.. I see. Ok. Thanks.

[FireSoul]

The following message was sent out on what i think is a WGL spam list.  The links have been removed by now, they they were trying to hype this with your name, Firesoul.

So, what... he went back to OPPLUS 4.0? Ah.. this dates from Sunday. *sigh*..

[FireSoul]

   I am not sure but they might be making changes to these boards.I have noticed it myself and it wasn't like this yesterday.Sorry for being a little OT here FireSoul.I don't even see her sig.

No.. It's actually very on-topic..

.. Kim got sick of us D2 people "acting like babies" when we acted in my defense of OP+ in that forum. She.. .. may have decided to have her account deleted and removed from these boards. I suggest you go read that thread in the D2 forum side of things..  Very similar name to this one.

Firesoul, WGL is about dead anyways ... Morpheous has a habit of stepping on toes.

Have you ever talked to him on TeamSpeak? I could get the TeamSpeak address for you. Perhaps too much is being misinterpreted in the written word here. Age put this topic up in the Tri-Mod forums and I have offered any support. Need anything from D-3 modders, let me know.

Your work has always spoken for itself.

<S>

WaterTiger

Thank you WT, ..

.. and yes, I have his teamspeak address, but fact is: I don't ever want to speak to him again. Last time we spoke, it was at some sort of meeting, about a week prior to the crap that happened this weekend. He wanted to make me a business proposal, which I ultimately turned down because my work is my own, and has nothing to do with $$$.

.. at the beginning of the conversation, he told me all his teamspeak meetings were recorded.


No. I will not speak to this man again. I don't trust it at ALL.

-- Luc

[Ronin]

Although the issue appears to have been settled I wanted to add my two cents worth. In my opinion, whether someone has a patent, a trademark or any other proprietary interest in something that would be recognized by law is beside the point. At issue, as far as I am concerned, is respect.

For anyone even remotely connected to this community to make alterations to Luc's work and then to rename it in such a way that, using our usual conventions, would lead others to believe that it was in some way a cooperative work is slightly disingenuous at best.

As for the comments by SSCF-Rolling... tempers are hot, fuses short. But, were the situation reversed, I can not help thinking that she might have been a little upset too.

When something you love and have worked hard on for years is altered without your knowledge or consent it is something akin to learning that your child has been poisoned against you. You no longer know whether this thing that your name is attached to will remain a source of pride and honor in your community. You have to wonder whether this great love of yours will not begin to bring you heartache and pain despite all the love and time you poured into it. You must consider whether you will be held in some way accountable for it by those who know and trust you.

So you must make certain that everyone involved knows how you feel about it at the beginning lest you open the door to questions after the fact. You have a duty to disclose your perception of things and to let everyone know that you are not in favor of it.

And I salute you for making that choice, Luc. < S >

Morpheus should, out of respect for someone who labored long to create something for us all, have talked with you about his plans and worked something out with you long before announcing things as he did. My opinions, for what they are worth.

Respects and kind regards...

[Mazeppa]

OK, this is not very useful.  I do not know how to send the silly thing.  Firesoul, if you will PM me an e-mail addy I will forward it to you along with an explaination of how I got it.  

[Whoo]

Sorry firesoul, I know this is your issue, I am just tired of seeing GZ tied to everything he screws up...

[FireSoul]

OK, this is not very useful.  I do not know how to send the silly thing.  Firesoul, if you will PM me an e-mail addy I will forward it to you along with an explaination of how I got it. 

Just look into my profile.

[FireSoul]

Sorry firesoul, I know this is your issue, I am just tired of seeing GZ tied to everything he screws up...

I think I understand perfectly what you are currently saying, and if everything I hear about this guy is true, you're quite correct in your statements.

[Strafer]

#3-I had nothing to do with firesouls knowledge of you stealing his good name.

Nope, that would be me, Whoo. I happened to pop into GSA over the weekend to see if any familiar faces were on, and notice the room name followed by a general announcement regarding a Sanctionned and Approved OPPLUS 4.0.
A question was asked from myself and went unanswered, so I forwarded the link and text to FireSoul.
I maybe did 5% of all the work in OP+ but I could technically be considered Uncle Strafer in comparison to Daddy FireSoul. If there were a joint venture or partnership of this type in the works I would've heard about it well in advance. As I hadn't, I erred on the side of caution and flagged a double-check from the main man.

The rest is rather well quoted for by now.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Is there anything a fleet leader can do to pressure Morpheous? The BOTAKnights bailed from WGL support long ago -- most fleets have. I could send some e-mail out to fleet leaders and post a few fleet forums.

Hell, I'll get 30 Knights into the OP lobby and spam his a$$ for hours until he signs off.

I could also see if Vic could make a statement on this on STGD on the front page.

WGL is all but dead ... It makes me sick to think he actually wanted a "business proposal" out of this.

Consider his request the last wish of a dying man, because you will be here long after WGL is dead and buried.

The only reason I keep OP loaded is to see what you do next.

<S>

WaterTiger

[Strafer]

Nothing to pressure anymore WT. Morpheus has come up with his own name now so it's pretty much settled.

His reputation has much to recover for but the case is closed.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Nothing to pressure anymore WT. Morpheus has come up with his own name now so it's pretty much settled.

His reputation has much to recover for but the case is closed.

So he comes up with a name and Firesoul does the work? The more I think about this the angrier I get.

<S>

WaterTiger

[Strafer]

So he comes up with a name and Firesoul does the work? The more I think about this the angrier I get.

<S>

WaterTiger

That's never been a problem. DIP is/was using 3.2 as a baseline, other projects have taken OP+ and tweaked it to their needs. As long as credit is given, which Morpheous at least got that part right, it's good.
Swiping the name and assuming that it was abandonware was the problem. I don't care to look but I'm sure he and his associates put in a fair level of time and effort to convert the 7 pirate races to meet their goals.

[FireSoul]

Nothing to pressure anymore WT. Morpheus has come up with his own name now so it's pretty much settled.

His reputation has much to recover for but the case is closed.

So he comes up with a name and Firesoul does the work? The more I think about this the angrier I get.

<S>

WaterTiger

Don't worry too much about it. Perhaps people will NOT use anything he releases?
-- Luc

[Whippet]

all I'm new to the forum but been in sfc community for a bit and I'm online in gsa op alot and i can tell ya that no one is using this ego manics mod in op pep have tried it but there dislike for morph has turned them away  this morph is a control freak and takes it personal if u disagree with him in anyway ain't it funny how he comes over from sfc2 after peep left it for op+3.3 [which has fixed the i bug in my loved isc] he has to act like he is the Savior of the sfc community and trust me it get his goat cause peep dont like his ego mod  well ive vented ty 4 ya time   

whippet

[Kremen]

Sounds a bit like He Who Must Not Be Named ... have a look at the sh*tstorm going on over the possible resurrection of the Freespace franchise...

[Potemkyn]

As long as this doesn't turn into the Battlecrusier 3000 AD fiasco...

Then again, He who must not be named could push it to that level.

 
Po~

[Potemkyn]

I would like to say, after reading that conversation my views on this because I am tired of my hard work at GZ being crapped on by this meglomaniac.


*** EDIT***
DEAR MORPH
***/END EDIT***


#1-Firesoul did this for the community, GZ picked it up because of the dedicated work firesoul put into the game, making it FUN.  He did not design this for GZ, and to be honest he didnt know we were even using it until we talked with him on TS.
#2-Stop bringing my name into this.  You have a misconception that I am in some sort of competition with you, when in actuality I don't care.  Take your BQL league and your KB8's campaign and go off in your little corner of the world and leave me be.
#3-I had nothing to do with firesouls knowledge of you stealing his good name. When I was told about it, I simply assumed he gave you permission.  Foolish though, but thats what I thought.
#4-GZ by far is winding down, I have accepted this.  I intend to expand no further and have announced to the community that once the community loses interest, I will shut it down.  So stop f*cking with me, go away, do what ever it is you do between your god-of-one episodes on GSA and designing your new features on my Teamspeak.

I am very, very, very tired of this...
Keep me out of your affairs you netstalker

Oh boy!!!

Somebody's gonna get it!

 
Po~

[Kane]

 EDIT: URL/POST removed.

 Dynaverse.Net will NOT TOLERATE Personal attacks in public!

[Morph]

I appreciate all the use of the WGL and my name in everything you guys post!!! It helps the search engine spiders rank my site even higher each day. So keep up the good work and whether it is good post or a bad post, those little search engine spiders dont care.

Thanks for the Free Advertisemnet

Morpheous

[Kane]

I appreciate all the use of the WGL and my name in everything you guys post!!! It helps the search engine spiders rank my site even higher each day. So keep up the good work and whether it is good post or a bad post, those little search engine spiders dont care.

Thanks for the Free Advertisemnet

Morpheous

[F9thRyker]

I appreciate all the use of the [deleted] and my name in everything you guys post!!! It helps the search engine spiders rank my site even higher each day. So keep up the good work and whether it is good post or a bad post, those little search engine spiders dont care.

Thanks for the Free Advertisemnet

Morph

 

[Whoo]

Actually it would divert the spiders to this thread not your site.
So keep em comin guys

WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL WGL

[Whoo]

BTW your holiness...
This thread ranks #5 on a google search of WGLeague...



Yours is #6

Enjoy your free advertising
 

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

EDIT: URL/POST removed.

 Dynaverse.Net will NOT TOLERATE Personal attacks in public!

I would like to thank d.net for staying on top of this issue ...

<S>

[FA Frey XC]

I appreciate all the use of the WGL and my name in everything you guys post!!! It helps the search engine spiders rank my site even higher each day. So keep up the good work and whether it is good post or a bad post, those little search engine spiders dont care.

Thanks for the Free Advertisemnet

Morpheous

[Blyre]

I'm confused.

How does one claim theft when one has modified content in a game after agreeing to a EULA that says they won't in the first place?

Also, Intellectual Property laws truly apply only to original works, not what's being bandied about here. I'm sure you could try to copyright the name, but then we'd be back to the non-ownership thing again.

Could someone please clue me in here?

Thanks,

Wallace

[Rod ONeal]

For me what screwed it up was calling it OP+ 4.0. OP+ is a continual WIP for FireSoul and by Usurping the nomenclature as well as the name it made it look like it was more of his work, or that they were taking over the continued production of it. At the very least it would cause confussion.  It doesn't follow FireSouls design parameters and, IMO, shouldn't have the OP+ name on it at all. FireSoul's never minded anyone using his work to save them time. It's a lot of work to add all of those ships. Taking the name though and making it look like it was an update of the SAME mod when, except for FireSouls work, the rest of it isn't even close to being the same was just wrong.

Add to that some crap about it being abandonware??? It's so far from that there's no way it could have been an honest mistake.

[kiloton]

Firesoul,

Release OP+ v5.0 (even if there are little or no real changes).  It will look "newer" than this other thing if people do get confused and no one will get the "older" one.

Ken

[Wraith 413]

 roflmao, Frey !!!!   
 I love watching the Terry Tate commercials.
 

                          Wraith 413

       

[FireSoul]

Firesoul,

Release OP+ v5.0 (even if there are little or no real changes).  It will look "newer" than this other thing if people do get confused and no one will get the "older" one.

Ken

That would be acknowledging that mod's existance and competition.
.. no I think I'll go with a version 3.4 and *really* stick it to the man.

[Heavens Eagle]

Long thread and been off for a little while.

I am glad that FireSoul was able to get the OP+ name problem fixed.

On the funny side when I first saw the name WGLOP it read to me as WGLOP and since you posted the remarks that the "person" was making I suspect that my initial read of his new name probably hits much closer to home.