Topic: all my SFC model downloads will be deleted

[Terradyhne]

as there are some stupid guys out there converting my models to SFC3 without my permission, i delete the downloads of my SFC models at my site and i will never more release any ship i make for SFC

[Core]

now you see this is just plane wrong

[J-O-K-E-R]

as there are some stupid guys out there converting my models to SFC3 without my permission, i delete the downloads of my SFC models at my site and i will never more release any ship i make for SFC

Im sorry to hear that , I would have liked to see your work

[Reverend]

Well, we're all real sorry to hear...
if you want to be real extreme, you could just not make anymore SFC models at all-

[atheorhaven]

as there are some stupid guys out there converting my models to SFC3 without my permission, i delete the downloads of my SFC models at my site and i will never more release any ship i make for SFC

This is exactly why I started doing the installer and changed the credits with my stuff.. the work I was doing was being converted to BC without me being asked.  I got mad,and didn't do anything for a bit, and then I thought that I was only hurting myself. So I came up with the installer and credit changes, and as far as I've seen, nothing has been converted since then without  someone asking.  You might want to consider that option.. if you remember, I've converted over a couple of your meshes in the past, the Amoeba for one, and I had asked for your permission before that was done. 

I'll be happy to send you a credits file that I use that you're more than free to use and modify to your liking for inclusion with your releases.  But not releasing SFC work simply cuts down on the people who will appreciate your work.. please reconsider stopping your releases for SFC and talk directly to the people who converted them without your permission... alright? 

[The Pelican]

Actually, any Model of yours used in SFC3 was converted by Captain Korah at the end of 2002. He passed them on to others without any readmes or credits. I didn't know who had made them. There are only 2 models as far as I am aware, the D-16 & the Gallant Wing. Most Mods will remove them if you ask nicely. We are not out there to "steal" your work. We simply did not know it was your work.

[Core]

he already did the situation got complected after that check the permission thread above for a bit more detail

[The Pelican]

Ah well, it's only 2 ships. I wasn't big on either of them anyway.

[MrCue]

Banned for asking them to remove your ships?
What was it you did wrong?

[Terradyhne]

Actually, any Model of yours used in SFC3 was converted by Captain Korah at the end of 2002. He passed them on to others without any readmes or credits. I didn't know who had made them. There are only 2 models as far as I am aware, the D-16 & the Gallant Wing. Most Mods will remove them if you ask nicely. We are not out there to "steal" your work. We simply did not know it was your work.

my D-16 model is from last year not from 2002 and the most problems with SFC3 conversion i have are those that the ships have been converted with stupid and wrong hardpointing and i hate SFC3 and don't like the fact that someone uses a model of mine in a game that i think of its stupid

[S33K100]

Actually, any Model of yours used in SFC3 was converted by Captain Korah at the end of 2002. He passed them on to others without any readmes or credits. I didn't know who had made them. There are only 2 models as far as I am aware, the D-16 & the Gallant Wing. Most Mods will remove them if you ask nicely. We are not out there to "steal" your work. We simply did not know it was your work.

Did it ever occur to you to like, you know, not put up work when you didn't know who'd done it? I mean I'm sure most any model you show a pic of in the forums here and someone will either be able to say 'I did that ship' or people will know and say 'x-modeler did that ship' this would avoid any troubles with people finding their work being converted to other formats or being used in kitbashes that they did not give permission for. Terradhynne, I completely understand your point of view in this situation however I beg you to reconsider - you're not punishing those who stole your work by pulling your models, you're only punishing your fans who want to see and enjoy your work in SFC. Why not try what Atheorhaven suggested about the installer program, it might just work. Also when you find these sites with your models uncredited or hosted or altered without your permission ask them politely to remove them, I'm sure most will oblige and those that don't are just complete a-holes I'm afraid to say.

[Wolfsglen]

Marauth said best what i was thinking.

Whatever you decide Terradyhne, thank you for the releases, i always enjoyed them a lot and will be sad to see them go.

[I, Mudd]

Anytime you post anything to the public, you have to expect this sort of thing, which is why I could care less if anyone kitbashes, alters, or does whatever with my models.

If it earns you false credibility by you claiming you built my mesh, oh well. I hope it works out for you. If you get a job because of them, I'll be glad to be a reference ...  .

Just remember, the truth has a nasty habit of getting out there, too.

It's a shame.
I rather liked your models - especially the Predator and the Avenger you built from designs at the Starfleet Museum.

Anyways, good luck and keep building, whether you release them or not.

I, Mudd.

[The Pelican]

Actually, any Model of yours used in SFC3 was converted by Captain Korah at the end of 2002. He passed them on to others without any readmes or credits. I didn't know who had made them. There are only 2 models as far as I am aware, the D-16 & the Gallant Wing. Most Mods will remove them if you ask nicely. We are not out there to "steal" your work. We simply did not know it was your work.

my D-16 model is from last year not from 2002 and the most problems with SFC3 conversion i have are those that the ships have been converted with stupid and wrong hardpointing and i hate SFC3 and don't like the fact that someone uses a model of mine in a game that i think of its stupid

The D-16 was in the very first ever edition of TNZ, which was released in January 2003. It was in the first edition of DomWars, which was released in February 2003. And I had all the models for DomWars for nearly a month before I released the mod. So it could only have been released in the first half of January 2003. It can't have been any later than that.

Like I said, if you don't want us to use it, we won't. You only have to ask.

As for posting in the Model forums, an oversight by someone new to SFC Modding I'm afraid. I hadn't even visited the Taldren Model forums at the time. I got most of my stuff from Korah & Chris Jones and worked mainly on the sfc3files forums.

As for being banned, don't know who did that, probably Cozbo, he'll ban anyone if they're being abusive.

[Katherine]

It's one of the problems STMD and now STGD have had since 2000 when we started listing Armada 1 mods in the old days, the credits.

Usually there is a readme.txt included in the file, and if there is the credits section usually lists who done it.  However sometimes there isnt.  Either its been lost between the various people repackaging it or it simply wasnt included.  A lot of the older files didnt have a readme in them, especially for Armada 1.  9 times out of 10 though when people are now uploading ships to the STGD or anywhere else for that matter they do include the original meshers or texture authors.

[battlestar001]

it will be a shame to lose ya. I quite like ur work

[Klingon Fanatic]

it will be a shame to lose ya. I quite like ur work

Terradyne, please reconsider.

It will be a damn shame never to be able to play with your FASA Trek Ships, specifically YOUR D-18 Refit and your Romulan V-20.

There are enough RESPONSIBLE people in the Trek gaming community that this kind of thing with never go unaddressed one way or the other.

KF

[NannerSlug]

could someone catch me up to what is going on here. tera is an asset to this community. is somone banned here? i dont get it. i dont see anyone banned.

tera, i have pm'd you. please pm me back soon.

everyone try to keep a level head while this sorts out.

[Wolfsglen]

Not banned from here Nanner, he meant another forum.

[NannerSlug]

okay. no biggie then. thats between them.

[Katherine]

He aint banned from the SF and SFC Community boards, i phoned up Nikki to check, i cant acess them myself for some reason.

[Red_Green]

I am sorry to here this. I have thought of not releasing ships at some point, but don't like the fact that it hurts the 99% of gamers that will not abuse my readme requests concerning conversion.

What bugs me is how ships end up in mods with no readmes in the 1st place. I know people have made 1 big ship readme file for mods. This is ok but why take out the individual ship readmes? Ther 1kb at most. The 1 big readme is not adequate. Simply because no know is going to spend the time trying to figure out what ship is done by who in thos big mods with 260 ships. Now all the mods are sharing ships betweeen mods and see  a ship with no readme and think its fair game.

I do not think it should be up to the modeler to chase after  someone who released a mod with his ship uncredited or converted against there policy. It needs to be up to the person using the ship to find and contact the modeler BEFORE it gets added.

This banning a modeler because he asks for a ship removed is outragous. I saw it once before already. A modeler questioned about ships with no readmes. The thred was locked and he got banned. Kind of telling sbout the attitude abd disrespect people have over the modelers rights over their intellectual property.

I am sensitive about this topic as my roots are in modeling but am now doing a mod as well. Using mostly my personal ships for a couple reasons. I requested ships for a mod before and never finished the mod due to my Vid card not reading light and damage maps. Felt bad about maybe making people expecting to see there ship in a mod I never got done. Also had no idea how much time it took. I want to release the mod 1st, then perhaps add others ships later. People will then be able to see how the models are credited.

In SFC3 I think they should be credited in each seperate ship folder. In 1 big complete readme and in the VL as you scroll to the bottom of the text.

I kind of like the idea I saw once where someone had a passworded site. You needed to register to d/l ships.
However once 1 person gets get, it can be passed to others via email, so there is no fool proof system. Its the honor system.

Personal I think this asking for permission and model crediting needs to be shored up or there will be other modelers that stop releasing.

[The Pelican]

According to Katie, he's not banned nor suspended. His account is still fully active at STGD.

I'm not that bothered, I'll just cut them from the Mod like he asked. It's only 2 ships, I can replace them pretty easily.

[Katherine]

Well red-Green thats the way I see it as well.  Ya need to remember though the life of a single ships for ANY game, not just SFC 3.  Lets take Armada 1 for instance.

I used to mod for Armada 1 a long, long time ago along with Vic.  We released ships via the old STMD, added the read me which was very basic and then released it.  2 months later we seen the SAME ship with the SAME texture re-uploaded to the STMD and classed as "unknown author".  Sometime between the first person downloading that ship and the first person uploadig the ship again the readme was removed. 

It can be removed for various reasons.  One of the classic cases (especially for the old Armada 1 days) was that the ship was packaged up in a full mod, like The Millenium Project (VERY old A1 mod) and distributed out via the download sites.  Someone seen the ship, took it out of the mod and didnt include the readme.  The ship then gets re-uploaded with no readme and no way of knowing who done the original ship.  Thats one case which is very common.

The other case is mods which date back to the old times, again, i'll use Millenium Project or even Wraiths Babylon 5 mod for Armada 1.  These mods add ships for there first build.  The mod is then downloaded countless THOUSANDS of time by thousands of people all over the world.  Other mods are based off those mods, i can name a few which have been based off Mill Project.  Between the strip out of ships from an original mod to the packageing of the new mod based on the old mod the readme gets lost.

There is then the wording of the actual readme to consider.  A modder cannot claim copyright or full ownership of that particular mod as it is based on the intellecual property of ViaCom and Paramount respectively, which means that when that ship is added to ANY site, wether its d.net, STGD, Starfleet Universe or even the modders own website, it is basically for the public to download and is therefore in the public domain.  The BIGGEST arguement is over the "concept" ships which look nothing like your standard saucer or eliptical main hull trek ships.  A classic example is the "Concord" class from the yards of Nightsofts Network.  Those meshes are really owned by Raven cause he basically payed the modders to make those ships and the completed items were sent over to him.  I know that you MUST ask permission for any of the nightsoft and affiliate ships.

What it would take is the big download sites...BC, STGD, SFU and SFC3files to work together and go through ALL of the ships currently in circulation for SFC 1 right up to SFC 3.  If there is a ship in any of those databases which doesnt have a readme, they get removed.  That way there can be absolutely no arguement about it.

However, if that happened youd lose over half of the ships made for SFC 1 and about the same for SFC 2/OP and SFC 3 combined cause a lot of the ships are now kitbashes and who knows if permission was seeken for that ship to be kitbashed?

[Wicked Zombie]

Don't get too upset Terradyhne, you aren't the only one who's had a sudden urge to take their work offline. The thought had crossed my mind a few times these paste couple of years for similar reasons. There's a number of sites out there that have posted mine and other's models without credits, or even asking the author(s) permission to do so, let alone informing them of it (the only site with express permission regarding DRS models is SFC3files, and that's because they asked first). The same goes to conversions to other games. People just assume that because a ship is for download, there aren't any special conditions concerning their use. As Marauth said, if nobody knows who made a ship, ask around first and don't post it until you get an answer.

The thing is, you have to expect people to ignore a modeler's wishes when there is no money involved or no blatantly obvious statements about it. Taking your work offline is a bit drastic, especially when contacting the site owners/converters usually solves the problem. You could also be specific about what can and cannot be done to your ships and list that on your site and in your readmes. Most people do pay attention to such things, though (as in my case) there are a few who ignore it. It's really just a case of a small group ruining it for the majority. Try not to mistake ignorance for direct intent, people do make mistakes and often times, these details slip through the cracks.

[Wicked Zombie]

Even if paramount owns the rights to a ship design, they don't own the actual model and textures. The modeler put their time and effort into making such a ship and that alone should entitle them to some degree of ownership. I'd hate to think that someone can just come along and take a scale model of a P-51, the HMS Victory, or the Enterprise A just because the one who put the ship together didn't design it. People tend to forget that just because they didn't design a ship, it doesn't mean it still isn't there's, at least on some level. This is our hard spent time, effort, and in some cases, money that is put into these models. The fact we expect nothing more than a little credit and respect in return isn't much to ask for, is it?

[Core]

couldn't agree with you more

[Katherine]

Yup, i know exactly how much time and effort goes into making ships, i done it for Armada 1 and now i do it with 3d Character renders since leaving modding trek games to the people who can do it in half the tme it takes me to do it

The point is though it's now completely impossible to police something like this simply because some of those models and meshes have been around for over a year and have changed hands so many times that things have been removed or altered.  Usually when the original modder does check the blame firmly gets put on the mod that the ship is included in when in reality the fault can be tracked back to a long time before the mod that had the ship in was released.  Some of the fault can also go to the download sites (that includes STGD) who do have some ships, a minority of them, listed with "unknown author".  STGD itself does have an agreement setting which people must click on to confirm that they are downloading a ship and they have to ask permissin if they wanna use it etc etc etc.  Thing is it's never been used as no one has requested to have the license agreement switched on.  Even if it was, there is no viable way to track what is happening to that particular ship.

[The Pelican]

Even if paramount owns the rights to a ship design, they don't own the actual model and textures. The modeler put their time and effort into making such a ship and that alone should entitle them to some degree of ownership. I'd hate to think that someone can just come along and take a scale model of a P-51, the HMS Victory, or the Enterprise A just because the one who put the ship together didn't design it. People tend to forget that just because they didn't design a ship, it doesn't mean it still isn't there's, at least on some level. This is our hard spent time, effort, and in some cases, money that is put into these models. The fact we expect nothing more than a little credit and respect in return isn't much to ask for, is it?

If I remember correctly, you can't claim ownership of any Model based on anything Star Trek (or something else like Star Wars for example) because Ownership implies that you either purchased or can sell on the item. If you created the Model yourself, you can only claim "intellectual copyright" - which means that the idea was yours. You can't actually claim ownership of the design (exception is to totally original designs, whether designed for use in a Star Trek game or not) if the model has some basis on a copyrighted design. For example, anything with a saucer is not a totally original design, as you are not the person who came up with the saucer concept. Someone else conceived it and has a patent on it. That is why Models have to be distributed for free.

I'm sure all Modders (including myself) make every effort to obtain permission for the Models they use in their mods. But nobody is perfect, even the most meticulous modder can make simple mistakes.

[Red_Green]

Well I claim complete ownership over my Hydran and Lyran ships, except the HMS defender. The reason being is the  mesh designs and textures are inspired by Hydrans and Lyrans but not based on the tmp designs.
They are original. Now all I have to do is call them Hirpozine's and Litopacforms instead of Lyrans and Hydrans. Then they would have no ties to ST or SFB. My Lyrans(Litopacforms) I made for my mod are listed as exclusive to the ROK mod, for personal use only. Kinda wonder where they might turn up.

[S33K100]

Even if paramount owns the rights to a ship design, they don't own the actual model and textures. The modeler put their time and effort into making such a ship and that alone should entitle them to some degree of ownership. I'd hate to think that someone can just come along and take a scale model of a P-51, the HMS Victory, or the Enterprise A just because the one who put the ship together didn't design it. People tend to forget that just because they didn't design a ship, it doesn't mean it still isn't there's, at least on some level. This is our hard spent time, effort, and in some cases, money that is put into these models. The fact we expect nothing more than a little credit and respect in return isn't much to ask for, is it?

If I remember correctly, you can't claim ownership of any Model based on anything Star Trek (or something else like Star Wars for example) because Ownership implies that you either purchased or can sell on the item. If you created the Model yourself, you can only claim "intellectual copyright" - which means that the idea was yours. You can't actually claim ownership of the design (exception is to totally original designs, whether designed for use in a Star Trek game or not) if the model has some basis on a copyrighted design. For example, anything with a saucer is not a totally original design, as you are not the person who came up with the saucer concept. Someone else conceived it and has a patent on it. That is why Models have to be distributed for free.

I'm sure all Modders (including myself) make every effort to obtain permission for the Models they use in their mods. But nobody is perfect, even the most meticulous modder can make simple mistakes.

The point is though Paramount couldn't just come along and say - we came up with the saucer so every ship here with a saucer is our property, even models of the Enterprise they are not legally able to claim possesion of the individual model as they had no part in the model's creation, only the design behind it. So the modeler couldn't sell it, but likewise Paramount couldn't come and take it away. Not that they'd bother as they're too busy running the franchise into the ground to notice us.

[Katherine]

It would surprise you just what ViaCom is capable of doing.  It's not Paramount you should be worried about, it's Viacom themselves. Anyone who is a member of this board who remembers the last time Viacom entered its mass hysteria in the mid to late 90's will tell you what they can do.

Over 100 Star Trek fan sites closed within the space of 2 months.  Some of those sites were the backbone of the Star Trek RPG community.  My late sister and the co-founder of the original Armada Clan Directory ran one of those sites.  Even if the site had minimal Star Trek content, even if the site had images that were not directly related to Star Trek but had ties to that franchise...the site was closed.  Viacom started to get worried about the amount of sites that was displaying Star Trek imagery and other Star Trek related materials.  From what i remember (this was a long time ago) Viacom went on the offensive when 2 sites entered a legal arguement and threatened to drag Paramount into it.  Viacom nipped it in the bud before it could spread.

I dont think a lot of people in here remember those days.  I do, it wasn't nice.

The point of the matter is it doesnt need to be obviously Trek related.  It can have the minimalist of ties, the minute someone or some site claims full copyright and ownership of any kind of item they will see the power that Viacom really has.  As long as modders dont start making money from there models (as in selling them to downloaders) everything is fine.  The second that happens the sleeping giant that is Viacom will step in.  Ownership of said models, well, the DMCA takes effect to an extent.  Anything published on the web that has credit where credit is due is considered to be "owned" by the original artist and/or author.  The ships out there with no readme is basically in limbo, and thats the problem.

STGD in it's entirety is a fully registered site with the DMCA.  We had to cover our backs from the early competition ripping the actual site off, copying the WHOLE site and claiming it as there own, and that has happened countless times during the past 5 years.

There has been cases of modding for Star Wars games that NEARLY caused Lucas Arts to step in and start slapping people around, luckily enough things calmed down before that happened.

[NannerSlug]

yeah, i remember that incident.. it started because 2 or 3 sites started charging money for somthing.. then they cracked down HARD. i remember that vividly.

[NannerSlug]

what is tera's site.

thanks in advance.

[manitoba1073]

as i have stated before anyone one who has gotten a converted ship from me knows all readmes r intact and i just add the line converted to sfc3 by me. if that is a prob with anyone let me know and i will do like i do with other ships from games and include a second folder in the file with all the original data, yes it makes for a huge model folder but it is only fair i believe that they then r intake in full. as please terra what ever u do DONT LEAVE US.  and i am not sure if i have any of ur ships, but i have seen them and they trully r amazing, sorry u dont sfc3, but i do like it, and i do really like ur ships they would be even better looking in sfc3, i feel sfc3 brings the best out of a model in any of them games. doesnt matter how the game plays they do look awesome in it.

[NannerSlug]

agreed 'toba!

[Katherine]

yeah, i remember that incident.. it started because 2 or 3 sites started charging money for somthing.. then they cracked down HARD. i remember that vividly.

Changed days now though

Now we have one of Viacom's higer ups (*waves to Harry, i bet he's already read this) actively participating with STGD, STGU and d.net which is MASSES of Trek related imagery, downloads, links, articles, posts etc etc etc.

[J-O-K-E-R]

I really don't see what the problem is here, no one altered your work (as far as looks), no one is making or has made any money from your work, no one is claiming your work as there own.
If anything I would think you'd be honored to have your work in a mod.
Happy that people are getting enjoyment from something you did.

From what I can tell, your pissed off because there converting it to sfc3, just because you hate sfc3 doesn't mean you have to throw a fit.

I don't think there is one modeler here that wants to see his/hers work end up on a butcher block, like MUDD said, if you put it up for public download, this kinda crap will eventually happen.

This subject makes me think of a child, when another child takes one of his toy & starts playing with it, that child starts crying out loud in hopes that someone will comfort him with attention & help him get his toy back.

Instead of getting pissed off & going over & TAKING his toy back & saying "THIS IS MINE" & then kick his ass!!

The moral of this stupid little post is, Stop whining & go kick some ass!!!


THIS SUBJECT IS OLD & BORING !!!

[Starforce2]

well said Joker.

[Red_Green]

Well I don't agree with you Joker or SF2. From being around these forums and games For 3 yeards(close enough)  I feel I have gotten more grief than any satisfaction. Anyone is entilted to set what ever boundaries or restrictions they want on there work. If you do't agree with there restrictions or beliefs, calling them childish is childish.

Now for my soap box. Before I started modeling I really enjoyed Star Trek. But I still can't get over how serious everyone takes this stuff. I hate all the infighting between game versions, All the bickering over different eras. In short, for me these forums and modeling ST has zapped most of the fun and taken the innocence out of ST for me.

I been thinking about this for a while. And I am so close to finishing my ROK mod, but perhaps I burned out doing it. I feel like if I released it, all I would get is more grief about fixing the balance and stuff. Like people who d/l stuff for free act like you owe them something after you spend months on  a project. Anyway Its like time for a big break again.  I doubt I will be back. Cause I never really found a 'click here after all this time.  Also think its sad that modelers can't even agree to support one another. When your hobbie is more a source of frustration than joy its time to move on.

Cya's

[Terradyhne]

as i have stated before anyone one who has gotten a converted ship from me knows all readmes r intact and i just add the line converted to sfc3 by me. if that is a prob with anyone let me know and i will do like i do with other ships from games and include a second folder in the file with all the original data, yes it makes for a huge model folder but it is only fair i believe that they then r intake in full. as please terra what ever u do DONT LEAVE US.  and i am not sure if i have any of ur ships, but i have seen them and they trully r amazing, sorry u dont sfc3, but i do like it, and i do really like ur ships they would be even better looking in sfc3, i feel sfc3 brings the best out of a model in any of them games. doesnt matter how the game plays they do look awesome in it.

yeah thats the problem i have only converting not asking for permission and than releasing them and only writing in the readme converted by xy, thats my great problem, that someone has no respect for a modeler to ask him if he could convert it to another game and than release it, thats an unwritten law for me and shows that you guys respect the thought of the modellers and not only adding ships to mods to have them in
and SFC 3 sucks the only graphical thing thats better is that extra lighting but the tool to add this is sh*t and all those models have some kind of smoothing that lets look them like baloons and i don't like that stupid game like i don't like BC but for BC i have been asked by Starforce2 if he could convert some of my models
and for private use there you could do what you want but don't release anything without asking only adding the readme is not enough for me and if you ask that show the you respect me and my work

[markyd]

I really don't see what the problem is here, no one altered your work (as far as looks), no one is making or has made any money from your work, no one is claiming your work as there own.
If anything I would think you'd be honored to have your work in a mod.
Happy that people are getting enjoyment from something you did.

From what I can tell, your pissed off because there converting it to sfc3, just because you hate sfc3 doesn't mean you have to throw a fit.

I don't think there is one modeler here that wants to see his/hers work end up on a butcher block, like MUDD said, if you put it up for public download, this kinda crap will eventually happen.

This subject makes me think of a child, when another child takes one of his toy & starts playing with it, that child starts crying out loud in hopes that someone will comfort him with attention & help him get his toy back.

Instead of getting pissed off & going over & TAKING his toy back & saying "THIS IS MINE" & then kick his ass!!

The moral of this stupid little post is, Stop whining & go kick some ass!!!


THIS SUBJECT IS OLD & BORING !!!

Well said JOKER, Terrradyne, you need to just step back.. and remeber this is just a game, its not like someone has borrowed your car, and decided to stick some nitros up its ass.... 

Its a game... its simply a model.. chill

[markyd]

Terradyhne I have also been asked to let you know you have never been or will ever be banned from the STGD forum, aslong as you adhere to the STGD rules (which you have) so come back over and have a chin wag man...

make some suggestions about your ship, and let the rest of us sfc3 players enjoy your work... In a way you approve

[Starforce2]

if anyone wants  to barrow my car and give it back with a free nitrus upgrade you don't need to ask first...

A Cd player and some of them spinning drug-dealer/pimp rims wouldn't be bad either...

[markyd]

  LOL

Just leave the keys under the gutter by McDonalds..

LOL

[Rogue]

Great... Just what is needed. Losing another contributing member.

I hope you reconsider. I very much enjoy using some of the SFC models you have shared with us and dislike the idea that there will be no more of them. Not only that but those you have made will be pulled from your website. It would be so much better if you went with something like Atheorhaven suggested. What benefit is there in depriving the non offending fans of your work? Likely the sin is that of omission than of one committed.

For what it is worth. I very much appreciated the Klingon's you have released. Those models have given a really nice diversity to their fleet. I particularly like K'Torr as it makes for a convincing HDW for the Klingon's.

[Sapharite]

as there are some stupid guys out there converting my models to SFC3 without my permission, i delete the downloads of my SFC models at my site and i will never more release any ship i make for SFC

There was a great job which Mackie did on Taldren boards. In my opninon everybody should read such intelligence posts on who wishes his permission to alter his work. Am I wrong?? I suppose not. 

Actually I don't have any of your models, but I have many of Undead's (I know you wish me to ask you about any alternations), Pneumonic's and Knox 1710's, DD's, a couple models from Atrahasis, Nine of Nine's, Reddragon's Maggot's and Zorg's. All models are from TMP and TNG/DS9/VOY/GENS/FC/INS/NEMESIS Trek time periods.

What I plan is to release my TNG MOD. I did some minor modifications to each model which include in most cases hardpoint adjustments to match some different UI's from SFC2:OP, other modifications were to convert models from SFC3 to SFC2:OP. I'll make a list of models and modifications and ask those modellers for permission to show those modifications to the public. 

I need to know: Where can I find Zorg and Nine of Nine and Knox 1710

Terra please reconsider your decision. Maybe I don't have any business with your FASA and Trek designs (with one major exeption I would like to get your USS Jenolen - Sydney class Transport for SFC2) but in my opinion you could give us another chance or try to do sth like AtraorHeaven did. Will you accept that and send me your Sydney class converted to SFC2 to: jimkirk@go2.pl ??? 

Take Care

[The Pelican]

NineofNine will answer his e-mail if you send him one (I have it if you don't). I've contacted him twice over his Jem'Hadar Bugship & his Defiant.

You can't get hold of Zorg or Maggot anymore, I've tried many times. P81 pops into the forums once in a blue moon (I believe he gave the green light for people to use his Star Trek work for whatever they wish as long as they credit him, it was quite a while back though, so I can't remember)

I think there are one or two more that you can't get hold of anymore, I made a list of them once, don't think I have it anymore though, I cleared out a lot of my old DomWars files.

-------------------

As we've been trying to tell you Terradyhne, we didn't know the Model(s) were yours. Otherwise we WOULD have asked for permission. I've always though the Gallant Wing was one of SkinMan's Models (hell, I'm pretty certain I actually asked his permission to use that one, don't think he realised it wasn't one of his, I did use quite a lot of his Models). And I thought the D-16 was one of Korah's kitbashes. I had no idea that either Model was yours. I can't speak for anyone else, but that was who I believe the Models belonged to at the time they were added. After that, I honestly never gave them a moments though.

But I will respect your wishes and remove the models from my mod.

[atheorhaven]

Well I don't agree with you Joker or SF2. From being around these forums and games For 3 yeards(close enough)  I feel I have gotten more grief than any satisfaction. Anyone is entilted to set what ever boundaries or restrictions they want on there work. If you do't agree with there restrictions or beliefs, calling them childish is childish.
Now for my soap box. Before I started modeling I really enjoyed Star Trek. But I still can't get over how serious everyone takes this stuff. I hate all the infighting between game versions, All the bickering over different eras. In short, for me these forums and modeling ST has zapped most of the fun and taken the innocence out of ST for me.
I been thinking about this for a while. And I am so close to finishing my ROK mod, but perhaps I burned out doing it. I feel like if I released it, all I would get is more grief about fixing the balance and stuff. Like people who d/l stuff for free act like you owe them something after you spend months on  a project. Anyway Its like time for a big break again.  I doubt I will be back. Cause I never really found a 'click here after all this time.  Also think its sad that modelers can't even agree to support one another. When your hobbie is more a source of frustration than joy its time to move on.
Cya's

James, here's the thing.

I've worked on over 200 ships now personally.  I've got stuff in (I think) at least three different packs, Chris Jones' mods, Pelican's mod, and Nanner's mod.  The one thing that I ask for is simply to send me a screenie if you use one of the ships that I work on so I can see the ship in action ingame.  You'd think that with that, my mail box would be flooded daily with screenshots, right?  Nope, I get maybe one a month.  I really don't personally mind people using stuff that I work on, but I like to be asked, and I like to see the ship ingame because that's eye-candy and it lets me see stuff in action (sometimes in another game).

The reason I got so choked and started the installer option for ships that I want to really enforce this rule on is because work that I did was turning up in BC uncredited and without me being asked about it.  Even though I'd probably have said yes, np, send me a screenie of it ingame so that I could enjoy seeing it in BC.

It was the lack of common courtesy that bugged me.  But I also have no pretentions here.  I fully expect to see the two years down the road, nothing I've worked on will exist anymore except in someone's old archived CDs, but not played.  Does it bother me?  Not really.. I do this for me.. I enjoy doing what I do, and I learn new skills in the process.  That's what it's all about.. that and I enjoy helping others, so fulfilling requests is a good thing for me.

The thing is, work for yourself.  Provide the mod because you want to, but don't feel indebted to provide support.  Announce it's a one shot, and if people want to update it, or balance it better, they can feel free..but you like it as is, and enjoy playing it.  If others feel it's unbalanced, they can d/l tools and balance it better for themselves.  It'll teach them skills and how hard that you had to work to get it all together.

But don't loose the love of doing it from too much stress.. just do this all for you because you want to.  If you don't want to anymore, then don't.. but don't quit until you really want to.

[Sandman3D]

Well Terra, if you feel you need to do this, then I'll be real sorry to see you leave. Not only are your models fun to play, they're add one more style for those of us still learning to learn from. There have been many models I've started, only to be consigned to the scrap heap (Avenger comes to mind) simply because at the time, I couldn't come close to doing the same quality of work. You're one of the few who specializes in FASA designs, and it will be a real loss to the community to lose your work. But, I must say, deleting your SFC models will not solve the problem...the people doing this will just d/l the models in the format they are available in and convert....

Believe me, I know the way your feeling, I've felt the same way, as others have stated, we all do at one time or another, but I realized that I couldn't really control it, so why get bothered by it?

Anyway, it'll be sad to see another good modeler leave, so maybe take a week or so to think and put it into perspective, and maybe it'll seem not so bad...

[The Pelican]

Well I don't agree with you Joker or SF2. From being around these forums and games For 3 yeards(close enough)  I feel I have gotten more grief than any satisfaction. Anyone is entilted to set what ever boundaries or restrictions they want on there work. If you do't agree with there restrictions or beliefs, calling them childish is childish.
Now for my soap box. Before I started modeling I really enjoyed Star Trek. But I still can't get over how serious everyone takes this stuff. I hate all the infighting between game versions, All the bickering over different eras. In short, for me these forums and modeling ST has zapped most of the fun and taken the innocence out of ST for me.
I been thinking about this for a while. And I am so close to finishing my ROK mod, but perhaps I burned out doing it. I feel like if I released it, all I would get is more grief about fixing the balance and stuff. Like people who d/l stuff for free act like you owe them something after you spend months on  a project. Anyway Its like time for a big break again.  I doubt I will be back. Cause I never really found a 'click here after all this time.  Also think its sad that modelers can't even agree to support one another. When your hobbie is more a source of frustration than joy its time to move on.
Cya's

James, here's the thing.

I've worked on over 200 ships now personally.  I've got stuff in (I think) at least three different packs, Chris Jones' mods, Pelican's mod, and Nanner's mod.  The one thing that I ask for is simply to send me a screenie if you use one of the ships that I work on so I can see the ship in action ingame.  You'd think that with that, my mail box would be flooded daily with screenshots, right?  Nope, I get maybe one a month.  I really don't personally mind people using stuff that I work on, but I like to be asked, and I like to see the ship ingame because that's eye-candy and it lets me see stuff in action (sometimes in another game).

The reason I got so choked and started the installer option for ships that I want to really enforce this rule on is because work that I did was turning up in BC uncredited and without me being asked about it.  Even though I'd probably have said yes, np, send me a screenie of it ingame so that I could enjoy seeing it in BC.

It was the lack of common courtesy that bugged me.  But I also have no pretentions here.  I fully expect to see the two years down the road, nothing I've worked on will exist anymore except in someone's old archived CDs, but not played.  Does it bother me?  Not really.. I do this for me.. I enjoy doing what I do, and I learn new skills in the process.  That's what it's all about.. that and I enjoy helping others, so fulfilling requests is a good thing for me.

The thing is, work for yourself.  Provide the mod because you want to, but don't feel indebted to provide support.  Announce it's a one shot, and if people want to update it, or balance it better, they can feel free..but you like it as is, and enjoy playing it.  If others feel it's unbalanced, they can d/l tools and balance it better for themselves.  It'll teach them skills and how hard that you had to work to get it all together.

But don't loose the love of doing it from too much stress.. just do this all for you because you want to.  If you don't want to anymore, then don't.. but don't quit until you really want to.

I know I have 3 of yours from GaW, I remember asking for them. There aren't any others are there that I am not aware of (at least if there is, I'm not aware of it). Though I did forget to send you the screenshots. (Sorry, modding is extremely time consuming, when you're staring at numbers every day you forget so many things - I must send you a screenshot of the New Orleans, it does look good in SFC3...)

I know I downloaded almost every model off your site recently though. Haven't decided which to use yet, but expect an e-mail in a few days as I'll probably put some in my new version. (I'll send a screenshot this time, I promise. )

Had no idea you'd worked on 200 ships though.

---------

I once had my entire Mod used to create another mod (currently known as Island Wars). They thought they'd asked my permission to use the mod, when in fact they'd just asked permission to use the Models. (I get that a lot, I just tell them to ask the original Modeller for permission first). I settled it pretty quickly, they apologised, and that was the end of that.

Whenever someone uses your work without your permission, you can either react angrily, or keep your head. Anger does nothing but harm, to yourself & to others.

[J-O-K-E-R]

What I said before was rather harsh, I didn't mean it in a bad way, but more like a "tough love" way.

All I'm trying to say (In my own opinion) is that this isn't something that needs to be brought to the attention of the whole community. This is between "you" & who ever you have a beef with. I just didn't think it was healthy for the community to have this or any kind of flaming going on.

Thats just the way i was raised, To take your problem to the person(s) your having the problem with, Its nobodies busyness but your own.

I've been with this game & its community for a few years now, since the release date of sfc1, & this has been going on ever since. Its just one of those things you get tired of hearing about.

Anyway, I hope you get your problems worked out & no offense, but I hope this thread dies out quickly so we can get back to what we enjoy.

[Terradyhne]

ok i reactivated the downloads and will work on for SFC2 but all what this has shown to me is that those SFC3ers from the unity mod comunity are some kind of respectless and that SFC3 is not worth to mod and making models for and if this happens again than i will realy leave the SFC comunity for ever
and please some of the admins close this thread 

[markyd]

Just before it gets closed...

Are you ok with us using your models or not?

[Khalee]

ok i reactivated the downloads and will work on for SFC2 but all what this has shown to me is that those SFC3ers from the unity mod comunity are some kind of respectless and that SFC3 is not worth to mod and making models for and if this happens again than i will realy leave the SFC comunity for ever
and please some of the admins close this thread 

well glad you desided to stay. But if you think you have to leave again for whatever Please dont go untill you come out with the D18 and the Romulan V20 at least PLEASE.

[Kane]

ok i reactivated the downloads and will work on for SFC2 but all what this has shown to me is that those SFC3ers from the unity mod comunity are some kind of respectless and that SFC3 is not worth to mod and making models for and if this happens again than i will realy leave the SFC comunity for ever
and please some of the admins close this thread 

I need a link to your site.

so I can see if I have any of your ships and it will be removed.

[Klingon Fanatic]

ok i reactivated the downloads and will work on for SFC2 but all what this has shown to me is that those SFC3ers from the unity mod comunity are some kind of respectless and that SFC3 is not worth to mod and making models for and if this happens again than i will realy leave the SFC comunity for ever
and please some of the admins close this thread 

I need a link to your site.

so I can see if I have any of your ships and it will be removed.

Here you go:

http://www.terradyhne-yards.de/

C'mon Terradyne we love your stuff don't take your talents away from your devoted fans.

KF

[NannerSlug]

locked as wished for.

i hope some people remember how mild this was compared to other modelers who got upset. lesson is, people, ask for permission.