Topic: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG  (Read 34941 times)

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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #120 on: July 16, 2004, 07:34:11 am »
Please fill in some standard response to one tooting his own horn in response to Sookfoot.  I'm too lazy to articulate my nausea.

Whatever, obtuse negativity for its own sake impresses no one.

But it can be damn amusing when you're stuck in an office for 8 hours.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #121 on: July 16, 2004, 08:06:23 am »
I didn't have time to read all of this so forgive me if this has been offered already.

Couldn't we allow a limited number of "fleet" players just by adding the option and a few slots to the FM's? Allow FM's to have the choice of flying one large restricted ship or a fleet of smaller ships (defined to everyone's satisfaction), add a couple slots to the number of "base" FM's and define/restrict the number of each type (single large or smaller multiple) that can be fielded to make sure no race can go too top heavy one way or the other.

That is a frigging great idea. Allow a couple FF/DD squadrons, maybe a CL/CA squadron per side. Transferable FM assignment.

Is this going more in the "elitist" direction that was are trying to avoid?

Not if handled correctly. If the FM spots for OOB ships and Fleets is freely transferable without any VC effects then there is nothing preventing the spots from being offerred at some point to every pilot that wants one.
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Offline FPF-DieHard

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #122 on: July 16, 2004, 08:31:32 am »
. . . is freely transferable without any VC effects . . .

By this do you mean remove PvP VCs?  Just clarrifying.   My opinion on this issue is undecided.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #123 on: July 16, 2004, 09:42:03 am »




Sockfoot posts!

Wow, my interest in this game just doubled, even though he's not playing.

Squiggy posts!

Squigalishous!  Wow, my interest in this game just quadrupled, even though he's not playing.

Kor posts!

Wow!  my interest in this game just...... umm.....ummm..... <looks at fingers>  Hey!  I can't count that high!  <starts pulling off boots....>

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Offline Laflin

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #124 on: July 16, 2004, 10:04:30 am »
Hey all ... Thought I'd pop my head in here since it seems to be 'Old Folks' week. ;)

Anyway, I'm not going to say I'm for this or for that - I don't play anymore, so I really don't have a say.

I left the game because two of my good friends left (Sock and Squig), my loyal friend and wingmate left (Gow), and my leader and mentor had to scale back his time in-game (Dogmatix).  Not that there weren't still plenty of good folks in the game, but these guys were part of our solid group and without them .. I could definitely feel the hole left behind.  Add to that, our numbers were on the decline.  Not to mention the whole fubar'd shiplist project...

Anyway, Squiggy and Sock found a game they liked that allowed for not just 30, 60, or even 100 people to play together ... this game allowed for 1000's to interact with each other in some form or another.  I tried it out and liked it instantly.  The best part was that I was back playing with two of my 'brothers,' and that wily ol' Kat, Gook, was there, too.

Going back to the dwindled player base with its new list of rules and this download/that download .. it was just too hard to do.  Don't get me wrong, I loved SFC.  Recalling the capture of Lyra in CW5, the Rainbow Trail to Earth in CW3 .. the defense of the ISC/Gorn border in CW6 (and yes, the Hydran taking of Vulcan in the same campaign .. loved seeing that), facing Dogmatix in my F-BCF in CW2 .. I miss those days big time.

I don't know what point I was trying to make, or if I even had one.  I guess I just thought I'd share my story and say 'Hi' to the old gang. :)


PS.  Hey Laffy, you need a wingman for that? ;)



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I would be honored, sir.  :)  I sincerely hope that all has been and is going well for you.  Now all we have to see is a post from that old grouch Gow to really scare the hell out of me  :P

Offline Kroma BaSyl

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #125 on: July 16, 2004, 10:47:56 am »
. . . is freely transferable without any VC effects . . .

By this do you mean remove PvP VCs?  Just clarrifying.   My opinion on this issue is undecided.

Yes potentially, maybe a small VC for any PvP kill (1 or 2 points) but nothing special for BCH/DNs or Fleets. That way RMs won't feel restricted to assigning them to lessor skilled pilots, since the VC risk to the team is no different than if they were flying vannilla.

Althoug personally I think allowing anyone to fly a 2 ship fleet if one of the ships is CA or larger and the other vannilla plus allowing PBR restricted CL and smaller 3 ship fleets is cool too.
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Offline KAT J'inn

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #126 on: July 16, 2004, 11:12:43 am »
API - Washington - 7/16/2004    -    In an odd story, it is reported from the New York area that several ?residents? of the Schlotnick Home for Delusional Elderly Dynageezers have recently escaped.   A bed count performed yesterday revealed that several of the plastic wrapped cots were empty. 

Further reports of a recent spat of robberies only seems to confirm the report as several drug stores have reported the theft of large quantities of Ensure and Metamucil.

The New York area public is warned to be on the lookout for several elderly men with a glazed look in their eyes mumbling anything about ?drones.?   If you run into any of these sad people please call the police right away.   They are to be considered dangerous and extremely incontinent.

Offline Gook

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #127 on: July 16, 2004, 11:16:12 am »
API - Washington - 7/16/2004    -    In an odd story, it is reported from the New York area that several ?residents? of the Schlotnick Home for Delusional Elderly Dynageezers have recently escaped.   A bed count performed yesterday revealed that several of the plastic wrapped cots were empty. 

Further reports of a recent spat of robberies only seems to confirm the report as several drug stores have reported the theft of large quantities of Ensure and Metamucil.

The New York area public is warned to be on the lookout for several elderly men with a glazed look in their eyes mumbling anything about ?drones.?   If you run into any of these sad people please call the police right away.   They are to be considered dangerous and extremely incontinent.

 :woot: :woot: :woot: :dance: :dance: :ufo: :ufo: :ufo: :ufo: :woot: :woot: :woot:
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Offline Bonk

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #128 on: July 16, 2004, 11:22:30 am »
It was the first serious attempt to modify the shiplist after CW6.  Trouble was that we tried to accomodate everyone and have everyone design their own race's ships.  It was like giving the kids the keys to the toy store and it rapidly degenerated into name calling and quitting.  That's when guys like Squggy and I decided the game was over for us and we went out looking for other stuff.

Indeed, very sad. Bad idea to open it to everyone, inevitable the crap you describe will happen - especially back then. Design by committee is destined to fail.

We have some good lists on the go now handled mostly by individuals (FireSoul, Capt Jeff, DieHard, myself...). These shiplists produced by unbiased individuals have worked out quite well. Check FireSoul's OP+ corrections threads for the leading example. No muss, minimal fuss.

Things have changed, we're all a bit older, as J'inn has so humourosly posted above.    :lol:

Offline TotensBurntCorpse

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #129 on: July 16, 2004, 12:10:04 pm »
Gook

Quote
That was done for the scenario, a small ship with half a dozen marines could take out the listening post, most of the SFB scenarios made no sense, they were just vehicles.
1. see examples given, you don't need to garrison, the threat of desrtuction is enough to compel compliance
2. see one above
3. not sure what you do with the rest of space and even a shippling lane isn't wall to wall escorts
4. Again you don't need to the threat of reprisal is enough
5. I don't think we have enough peeps for anything other than 2 sides any more, unless the board is huge and its very long term
6. not until 1943 and the Japs used their subs all wrong too, US did the job properly, but even in the Atlantic ships were still lost until the end, as for DS what about the Royal Oak and scapa Flow? I am familair with WW2 ;)
7. Exactly my point if they use forces they should be able to regain control if they don't then no.
8. Not sure what you mean by this, embassies are evacuated on the out break of war. (Beligerant ones)
9. see my comments on number of ships killed and supplies. Your WW2 sub carried say 18 torps, it didn't need more as if each one was a kill that was a fantastic return ratio, we kill thousand of ships per server.
10. the problem is simulating the raider being run down by the fast warship, I have no problem with either solution just not both.
Quote

1) You run on the assumption that the host race wont send a relief flottilla to drive away the gun boat diplomacy ship.  One ship can blockade a planet, but the blockade would eventually be relieved by the owning race.
2) see above
3) The low DV hexes off the shipping lanes would become the open battle ground that is easy to take and easy to retake.  Shipping lanes by the nature of higher DV and higher Econ would by default mean that they are garrisoned more heavily, why else would you have to do more missions to flip one.
4) Threat of reprisal also has a time limit on it.  As I will only allow you to hold a gun to my head for so long before SWAT shows up and puts a bullet in your head.  Reprisal can get a short term demand done, Long term you only allow the people you are extorting to retaliate.  cf your gun boat diplomacy analogy, didnt japan subsequently declare war to remove the extortion, isnt china now a belligerent.
5) sorry what i meant here is that.... in mirak space there should be a hydran embassy hex with a base in it or low econ planet so the hydrans can be supplied from a same side race.  didnt mean a 3 or 4+ way fight.  just embassys
6) did the germans get any economic benefit from the atlantic war NO they did not.  Did they INTERDICT the allies econ of course they did.  Did they ever have control of the atlantic no they did not.  did the allies end up with control of the atlantic yes they did.  hence i would call the german effort interdiction and thus deep striking.

As to the comment about Scapa Flow then you agree with me that one shot distruction of TARGETS is good but flipping the hex is not.... as i dont think Gunther Prein had any intention of trying to actually CAPTURE scapa flow, other great examples of interdiction assissination type missions are... Pearl Harbour, Taranto, Dieppe, Killing Admiral Yamamoto, Ploesti Oil Field Raids, Dam Busters in the RHurr, Miriannas Turkey Shoot, Midway  and most dramatically Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Actual long term gains required ground pounding GIs with lots of LOS !!!!!!!!!!

Japanese subs were used well for their doctrine.  Unfortunately the doctrine was flawed at the time.  We still use some elements of this doctrine today for modern sub operations, Look up the standard contingent for a US Battle Carrier Group.  You will find that 2 - 4 Hunter Killer subs are part of the screening fleet.  The Japanese had the right idea Just the wrong sub technologies and era.  Remember that the Yorktown was actually lost at Midway ultimately due to I-168 boat blowing out her bottoms.  If the japanese had the subs the germans were working on late in the war then midway could have become a japanese slaughter.  The slower diesel boats couldnt effectivly attack fleets only convoys, but IJN doctrine didnt focus on these targets.  Also the US supply couldnt be severely interdicted this way.  As it is hard to torpedo land gasoline lines in texas.  The peroxide subs the germans were working on late in the war could have been devastating to the allies.

7) Ever hear of resistance fighting.  Also IMHO I think it is idiotic and game wise dangerous to allow flipping of home space hexes without LOS.  Again this would be from the carcass picking analogy.  Right now on LB5 I am one of two lyrans.  IF the coalition tried to DS lyran space we would not be able to stop them at all, where is the fun in that?

8) Embassies were to be single hexes of another friendly empire within your home space.  That could be used for resupply for that race.

9) D2/3 IMHO is intended to be a strategic game that is driven by tactical combat.  Resupply is a tool to force reasonable strategic advances.  Tactically I could deepstrike your homeworld from you, but strategically it makes no sense.  Imagine market garden but done only on berlin.  It would be a slaughter once the defenders mobilize.

10)  For DSing I would really propose a long disengagement penalty from that hex, to simulate increased patrols to disway the DSer.  If not then I envision poorly represented races being picked clean by DSers in short order.

Offline Lepton

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #130 on: July 16, 2004, 12:15:09 pm »
Please fill in some standard response to one tooting his own horn in response to Sookfoot.  I'm too lazy to articulate my nausea.

Whatever, obtuse negativity for its own sake impresses no one.

Oh, Bonk, don't rag on me.  You're one of my favorite people here.  If you are personally offended, that is your issue, but I have no truck with petty tyrants.  I play this game for fun, not the exercise of other's delusions of grandeur.


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Offline Bonk

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #131 on: July 16, 2004, 01:30:44 pm »
Please fill in some standard response to one tooting his own horn in response to Sookfoot.  I'm too lazy to articulate my nausea.

Whatever, obtuse negativity for its own sake impresses no one.

Oh, Bonk, don't rag on me.  You're one of my favorite people here.  If you are personally offended, that is your issue, but I have no truck with petty tyrants.  I play this game for fun, not the exercise of other's delusions of grandeur.

Cool, sorry if I ragged on ya, I woke up cranky today. I  usually appreciate your candor, much like Cleaven's.

Offline Gook

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #132 on: July 16, 2004, 01:56:55 pm »
Gook

Quote
1) You run on the assumption that the host race wont send a relief flottilla to drive away the gun boat diplomacy ship.  One ship can blockade a planet, but the blockade would eventually be relieved by the owning race.
2) see above
3) The low DV hexes off the shipping lanes would become the open battle ground that is easy to take and easy to retake.  Shipping lanes by the nature of higher DV and higher Econ would by default mean that they are garrisoned more heavily, why else would you have to do more missions to flip one.
4) Threat of reprisal also has a time limit on it.  As I will only allow you to hold a gun to my head for so long before SWAT shows up and puts a bullet in your head.  Reprisal can get a short term demand done, Long term you only allow the people you are extorting to retaliate.  cf your gun boat diplomacy analogy, didnt japan subsequently declare war to remove the extortion, isnt china now a belligerent.
5) sorry what i meant here is that.... in mirak space there should be a hydran embassy hex with a base in it or low econ planet so the hydrans can be supplied from a same side race.  didnt mean a 3 or 4+ way fight.  just embassys
6) did the germans get any economic benefit from the atlantic war NO they did not.  Did they INTERDICT the allies econ of course they did.  Did they ever have control of the atlantic no they did not.  did the allies end up with control of the atlantic yes they did.  hence i would call the german effort interdiction and thus deep striking.

As to the comment about Scapa Flow then you agree with me that one shot distruction of TARGETS is good but flipping the hex is not.... as i dont think Gunther Prein had any intention of trying to actually CAPTURE scapa flow, other great examples of interdiction assissination type missions are... Pearl Harbour, Taranto, Dieppe, Killing Admiral Yamamoto, Ploesti Oil Field Raids, Dam Busters in the RHurr, Miriannas Turkey Shoot, Midway  and most dramatically Hiroshima and Nagasaki.  Actual long term gains required ground pounding GIs with lots of LOS !!!!!!!!!!

Japanese subs were used well for their doctrine.  Unfortunately the doctrine was flawed at the time.  We still use some elements of this doctrine today for modern sub operations, Look up the standard contingent for a US Battle Carrier Group.  You will find that 2 - 4 Hunter Killer subs are part of the screening fleet.  The Japanese had the right idea Just the wrong sub technologies and era.  Remember that the Yorktown was actually lost at Midway ultimately due to I-168 boat blowing out her bottoms.  If the japanese had the subs the germans were working on late in the war then midway could have become a japanese slaughter.  The slower diesel boats couldnt effectivly attack fleets only convoys, but IJN doctrine didnt focus on these targets.  Also the US supply couldnt be severely interdicted this way.  As it is hard to torpedo land gasoline lines in texas.  The peroxide subs the germans were working on late in the war could have been devastating to the allies.

7) Ever hear of resistance fighting.  Also IMHO I think it is idiotic and game wise dangerous to allow flipping of home space hexes without LOS.  Again this would be from the carcass picking analogy.  Right now on LB5 I am one of two lyrans.  IF the coalition tried to DS lyran space we would not be able to stop them at all, where is the fun in that?

8) Embassies were to be single hexes of another friendly empire within your home space.  That could be used for resupply for that race.

9) D2/3 IMHO is intended to be a strategic game that is driven by tactical combat.  Resupply is a tool to force reasonable strategic advances.  Tactically I could deepstrike your homeworld from you, but strategically it makes no sense.  Imagine market garden but done only on berlin.  It would be a slaughter once the defenders mobilize.

10)  For DSing I would really propose a long disengagement penalty from that hex, to simulate increased patrols to disway the DSer.  If not then I envision poorly represented races being picked clean by DSers in short order.




1. No that's exactly the presumption I work on, UNTIL the defenders show up the Gunboat will have control

2. See above

3. Even with a convoy system there is by it's nature a mobile envelope of defence not a static one, forces are concentrated around the convoy not dissiapted in empty ocean

4. See 1.

5. I see yep  agree, whether it would have base status may be more open to discussion but certainly CnC capability

6. Exactly, the game can't show the difference so the game Currency of DVs comes into play. Gunther was prolly not a good example for holding ground, but a deep strike into the most heavily defended base on the planet at the time AND sinking a Battleship AND getting away it was fine. Pretty good effective DS.

More than happy to discuss WW2 sub strategy, but I'll leave it here.

7. Funnily enough resitance is not the norm a brief scan of History from Egypt onwards shows few examples of resistance, the most usual reaction was when the ruling sect was removed the masses carried on under new leaders, their lot did not change. History of colonisation of the planet favours the aggresive colonisers until they wax oand wane in power. 30,000 Macedonians destroyed the Acheamenid Persian Empire of Darius, they didn't even cisit most of it and certainly only left garrsions in very major supply areas, but the Persians were gone until the Parthians overthrew the Selucids and Ptolemies 2 centuries later, who were in turn replaced by the Sassaniad's etc etc etc. 

9. Arhnem was tried because they they thought it was a "soft" area, intel failed to point out 2 SS panzer Divisions refitting prior to departure to the East. No you Don't DS Berlin, unless Berlin is Undefended. My point in this whole thing, is if the enemy leave the gate open with no defences or fail to react to attacks on the capital then they deserve to lose it, the ground is undefended and open.

10. I can live with that, I said eithe,r or, not both.


DV is the only currency of conflict which we can measure and being denied access to large parts of it I think is plain wrong.

Toten you and have both DS'd in the past we both know 15 hexes behind the lines its tricky, especially in a drone boat, low reloads means you have 4 shots nad if you have no back weapons its even more tricky doingit and avoiding to much damage is not as easy as is made out. Taking a planet on your own is just not feasible, other boats can do it but take longer, the amount of time the defenders have to react is immense. I can't really see a problem being allowed to flip on a DS, or drop a base, or do we have to have a Solomon Islands discussion :)
« Last Edit: July 16, 2004, 03:11:12 pm by Gook »
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Offline Dagger

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #133 on: July 16, 2004, 06:31:29 pm »
Hi everybody!  ;D

I see the old timers are back.  Since Kor, Sockfoot and Squiggy are going to be playing, I've decided to start up again.

See you soon!

Offline Bonk

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #134 on: July 16, 2004, 07:16:36 pm »
* Bonk blinks

* Bonk blinks again...

 8) Welcome back!

Offline Max Power

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #135 on: July 16, 2004, 07:27:59 pm »

Offline Dagger

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #136 on: July 16, 2004, 10:22:39 pm »
If you don't want me here, fine.  I'll quit.

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #137 on: July 19, 2004, 04:07:14 pm »


So, as long as we are waxing nostalgaic about the differences between the olde days and the now days, which "improvements", specifically, do you think are actually detriments?

For my next campaign, some of the old-school stuff actually makes sense.  I might (or might not) want to take some of your thoughts on board.

-S'Cipio the Herr Burt


1.  Secret VC's.   Make some secret !!  Keep the enemies guessing as to what you want.  SS2 had both static and secret VC's.   If possible, set them up so that the sides will have to cross paths to get their points, thus creating PvP zones.  Makes both sides happy as hex munchers can continue towards goal, while PvP'ers can protect your goals.

2.  LOS.   ELIMINATE LOS RULES !!!  The only rule regarding LOS should be that you can't place a base unless there is LOS.  Why someone shouldn't be able to deepstrike and take a enemy planet is beyond me.

3.  Deepstriking.   Should be allowed.  I could see a "fight to the death" rule if deepstriker is in enemy space.

4.  OOB.   I like the LB5 set up soooo much!  No admin hassles trying to get a FM a ship or anything !   I'd say 1 BB/DNH, 1 DN, and 3 BCH per race, or LESS at any given time.  Make them affordable so almost anyone could fly one by server end so it's not elitest.

5.  Fleets.  Admins decision.  I myself can do with fleets allowed or not allowed.

6.  Disengagement rule should stay.   Probably the single truely needed rule to help the slower, less munching races.  Though, I'd like to see less punishment of those who fight to the death....maybe 10 turns if run off, and 2 if killed?

7.   Downloads.   Small as possible, and a installer for the computer impaired...

8.  DV shifts.   Make neutral (outer reaches) very low DV so there will be a honest tug of war.

Probably more, but I got one burnin and I need some munchies...

This will not take us back to the old days, but I think it is more of a compromise to keep some of the good that has come along, while letting players explore different aspects of warfare then just the trench style we've been playing in lately...

Thanks for the honest feedback, Jeff.

As it happens, with piracy warfare being a different animal than total warfare, Eco War may very well have you covered on the above points.  The only thing I hadn't really covered was secret VC's and they are easy to convert.  Which means many people won't like Eco War, of course, but you might.

But more on that as launch date gets closer.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

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Offline KBF-Dogmatix_XC

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #138 on: July 22, 2004, 12:50:11 pm »
You weren't around then LeRoy. Gook's vision of D2 is exactly what I remember from 2 years ago, and it sucked compared to what we have today. Just MHO.

D2, in my eyes, has matured like a fine wine. Disengagement rule, FM rules, and single ship rules have rescued it from chaos.

To each his own.

BTW Jeff and Gook, the playerbase is smaller now because the game is 4 years old, not because dyna sucks with more rules.  :skeptic:



Exactly.


Few have been bigger SFC die-hards than I an even I am starting to get tired of the game itself (nothing to do with how it's played...just that it's played at all).  Sure...RL keeps me away from the game more and more, these days...but I sure feel the sting of missing out on what's going on a lot less as time goes by.

I honestly believe I could walk away right now and never come back.  I couldn't have said that at any point in the past up to this point.


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Offline KBF-Dogmatix_XC

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Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #139 on: July 22, 2004, 01:00:59 pm »
Hey all ... Thought I'd pop my head in here since it seems to be 'Old Folks' week. ;)

Anyway, I'm not going to say I'm for this or for that - I don't play anymore, so I really don't have a say.

I left the game because two of my good friends left (Sock and Squig), my loyal friend and wingmate left (Gow), and my leader and mentor had to scale back his time in-game (Dogmatix).  Not that there weren't still plenty of good folks in the game, but these guys were part of our solid group and without them .. I could definitely feel the hole left behind.  Add to that, our numbers were on the decline.  Not to mention the whole fubar'd shiplist project...

Anyway, Squiggy and Sock found a game they liked that allowed for not just 30, 60, or even 100 people to play together ... this game allowed for 1000's to interact with each other in some form or another.  I tried it out and liked it instantly.  The best part was that I was back playing with two of my 'brothers,' and that wily ol' Kat, Gook, was there, too.

Going back to the dwindled player base with its new list of rules and this download/that download .. it was just too hard to do.  Don't get me wrong, I loved SFC.  Recalling the capture of Lyra in CW5, the Rainbow Trail to Earth in CW3 .. the defense of the ISC/Gorn border in CW6 (and yes, the Hydran taking of Vulcan in the same campaign .. loved seeing that), facing Dogmatix in my F-BCF in CW2 .. I miss those days big time.

I don't know what point I was trying to make, or if I even had one.  I guess I just thought I'd share my story and say 'Hi' to the old gang. :)


PS.  Hey Laffy, you need a wingman for that? ;)


Kor
Former Klingon Chancellor
Proud wearer of a black Stetson with red trim


I'm a bit late in responding.....but it's good to hear from ya again, Kor.  I miss you guys immensely.  I've had a good run and a good time playing this game since the SFC1 pre-release days, but my time in the early days of D2 when we built the Klingon Empire into a significant force and, more importantly, a close-knit brotherhood of players was absolutely the zenith of my experiences in this game.  I've had some very good times since you guys left...and have made lots of really good friends since then but I really miss our time together.


Probably the biggest disappointment I feel about this game when I look back on it was that we weren't able to stay together.


Dogmatix, XC, KBF
yo' aj, Klingon Black Fleet
Director, XenoCorp Tactics and Strategy Division
DGA Board of Directors
SFC2.Net Administrator