Topic: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG  (Read 34122 times)

0 Members and 2 Guests are viewing this topic.

Offline Gook

  • Catbert
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Gender: Male
Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« on: July 14, 2004, 09:23:27 am »
Socky posted this in the Klink and Kzin Boards around CW5/6.

Many will hate it and violently disagree.

I agree with most of it unpalatable as it may be to many. The thing is whether your fillet is slugfest or hex flip you ought to see what the other guy may be doing. As It seems many have lost or forgotten the art of winning a Dyna, it may interest some, I already know who will hate it :)

THE ART OF THE CAMPAIGN

by

SOCKFOOT


   I have been campaigning in the Dynaverse for about a year now.  During that time I have developed a few simple guidelines I go by when planning a campaign.  I have espoused many ideas but never in a cogent and logical manner.  This manual is my attempt to lay down these guidelines in one place for all who are interested. 

In my opinion there are just a few keys to conducting a successful campaign in the Dynaverse.  These are all hinged on the one great truth of campaigning:

A SUCCESSFUL CAMPAIGN REQUIRES THAT YOU KILL THE OPPOSING SIDE?S AI BEFORE HE KILLS YOUR AI.

This must be the center of any campaigning strategy in the Dynaverse.  I?m sorry if you don?t like hearing it, but no race has ever won a campaign playing player v. player missions.  Somehow the term ?AI Killer? has gotten to be a derogatory term in the Dynaverse.  You must rid yourself of that mentality to wage successful campaigns on ANY server.  More about this later, but for now know that any other central tenet of a campaign will result in failure.  So bearing this in mind, here are what I believe to be the keys of a successful campaign.  BEFORE YOU PLAN YOUR CAMPAIGN you must begin with the three buzzwords.

I.   THE BUZZWORDS OF CAMPAIGNING

A.   ORGANIZATION

   This is a ?buzzword? that gets thrown around a lot at the beginning of a campaign, but few people actually understand it.  It means everyone has a place and there is ONE LEADER.  This leader may have advisors but there must be one person that says this is what we are doing.  The other people, however they are organized, must then achieve whatever the leader orders.  I have always believed that a leader should only set objectives.  How those objectives are achieved is up to the individual commanders in the field and the troops.  Committee leadership invariably winds up as a mess.

B.   COMMUNICATION

   The second ?buzzword.?  The most successful plan is successfully communicated from the planner to the people who will execute it.  A commander MUST maintain contact with his field troops.  This is done on several levels but the most successful communication is done through 1) Roger Wilco 2) Race Chat and 3) Posts on the Starfleetcomms race forums.  While all these are subject to enemy penetration, it is more important to communicate than to maintain security.  Espionage can be countered in other ways, which we will not discuss here.

C.   PREPARATION

   The final ?buzzword.?  I have a simple little rule I follow.  Have ANY plan, EVEN A BAD ONE, and you are one vital step ahead of 99% of the rest of the people.  I saw a show on the Discovery Channel about how people react in a crisis situation.  One of the topics was airplane crashes.  They talked to people who were one of the few to survive cataclysmic airplane crashes where over 90% of the passengers had survived the initial impact but less than 10% of the passengers survived the post crash fires etc.  All of the survivors reported that instead of running for the exits, most people got up from their seats and began to go through the overhead luggage compartments to get their luggage out.  This caused the aisles to clog up, a stampede resulted, and people got jammed in the aisles and tangled up with each other and these people all burned to death.  The survivors forgot about everything else (including the human lives around them) and did nothing else but make for the exit any way possible as soon as possible.  Some even reported climbing over seats and the bodies of other passengers to get out.  These people felt a little guilty BUT THEY WERE ALIVE!  It turns out EVERY SINGLE ONE of these people had said to themselves as they got on the airplane something as simple as ?if this thing crashes, the nearest exit is right there and I?m going out that exit at all costs.?  A plan that simple had saved their lives. 

The upshot of the show was that people who didn?t plan when they got in a situation they hadn?t anticipated reverted to an ?automatic pilot? mode and did things that they would ordinarily do; i.e. get luggage out of the overhead compartments before getting off the airplane.  You can?t get a more powerful illustration than this.  It doesn?t have to be much.  In fact, later on I?ll recommend SIMPLICITY as a hallmark of a good plan, however, there must be something tangible there for your troops to sink their teeth into and execute.

   Preparation also includes getting your troops in the right equipment, getting them in the right position and having enough resources to pull it off.  The best plan in the world is worthless if you are not prepared to pull it off.  Think about the airplane crash survivors.  You can say ?I?ll climb over that old lady to get out of this thing? but if you are not fully prepared to actually climb over her, your plan is crap.

II.   BUILDING A PLAN

   Ok, you?ve done the buzzwords.  Now how do you go about building a plan?  Here are six simple guidelines.

   A.   THINK

   That sounds real simple and obvious doesn?t it?  Well, you?ll be surprised how many times people forget to do simple and obvious things JUST BECAUSE they are simple and obvious.  What do you think about?  Get out your scratch paper and think about the following.

1. Resources

List your assets and liabilities.  How many captains do you have?  What are their experience levels?  Can they be counted on?  When are most of them on line?  What ships are available to your captains?  Are there any special server rules that will hamper you?  Who are your allies?  What is their track record?  Think about the same things for your enemy and list them as well.

2. Objectives

List your objectives.  What are you trying to achieve?  What will you focus on?  What will you ignore?  Again try and think like your enemy and list his possible objectives.

3. Contingencies

List the best and worse case scenarios for yourself and your enemies.  What is the absolute worst that can happen?  What is the absolute best?  What is likely to happen?

4. What you know/don?t know

List all of the ?given? facts you know about the campaign.  List all of the ?given? facts your enemy knows about the campaign.  (Example ? Alliances and relative starting positions).  Do the same for the ?mysteries? of the campaign.

   By the way, its is important to think like your opponent and try and discern his plan as it is for you to come up with your own plan.  I can?t tell you how many plans I?ve seen go right in the dumper because one side failed to anticipate what the other side would do.  This puts you back to square one without a plan and we all know what happens to people without a plan.  They become crispy critters.  I?m NOT saying build your plan to counter his plan or mold your plan around his, but you MUST take these things into account when making your plan.

B. LOOK AT THE MAP

You NEED to know the ground you fight on.  Choose ground that maximizes your assets and strengths while minimizing the relative strengths of your opponent.  Many times the ground will dictate your objectives.  You?ll also have an easier time anticipating your enemy?s moves by looking at the map.  Think like this ?If I were that guy, I would just HAVE to do something about ?.?

C. REVIEW

Get together with your people and talk with everyone about what they see.  EVERYONE IS GOING TO SEE SOMETHING DIFFERENT.  Take advantage of many opinions before you plan.  Then go back and look at what you have done above. 

D. BE PREPARED TO START OVER

Never get ?married? to your ideas to the point you can?t scrap them.  Heck, you could be completely wrong after all.  Scrap any plan that becomes not feasible.

E. GIVE YOURSELF PLENTY OF TIME

A plan that has time to mature will automatically be better than one slapped together at the last minute, so start making your plan as soon as possible.

F. DOCUMENT IT

Write it all down in a clear concise manner and distribute the plan to the people who will be in charge of executing the plan.  I have one suggestion here.  If you can?t write your plan out on a single page, you don?t understand your plan and cannot communicate it effectively.  Therefore it isn?t ready for execution.  Speaking of which ?


III.   IS MY PLAN ANY GOOD/READY FOR EXECUTION?

   How do you tell if you?re ready to roll?  Well, in my opinion a good plan has three hallmarks.

A. SIMPLICITY

Keep it as simple and clear as possible.  It really ought to fit on a single page.  If an idiot could do it the way you?ve written it, write it again and make it simple enough a retarded chimp could do it.

B. FLEXIBILITY

Campaigning is a dynamic art.  Your plan must be able to change as the situation changes yet maintain its general flow.  Also, tell your captains to seize any golden opportunities they come across, even if they are out side of the ?plan.?

C. FEASABILITY

Your overall plan should be within your logistic capabilities.

   If your plan meets these criteria, you?ve done a good job of planning.  For me personally, the best plans I?ve ever come up with have been just lists of objectives.  They are not listed in any particular order.  My troops would pick one and do it in whatever method they saw fit and in whatever order seemed to best fit the situation.  Deadlines are bad unless imposed upon you externally.  A deadline implies you are prioritizing a target.  Only set deadlines if that is your intention and you simply MUST HAVE IT!

IV.   GENERAL NOTES

   This section is full of tips and ideas for execution of your plans and just general thoughts on campaigning.  All are tried and tested by yours truly.  They work.  Don?t be shy about using them.

A. MORALE

Ten motivated players are worth thirty clueless ones.  Guys who have a plan and are visibly achieving even small objectives have high morale.  Guys who are floundering in big packs will quit you mid-campaign.  You can do many things to improve morale, but nothing does it like success.  I insist my guys maintain a ?can do, will do? attitude.  Every victory makes them more confident in you and themselves.  If you?ve got a bad attitude among your group, get rid of it.  And use positive language (Example : WHEN we capture target X we WILL move on to capture target Y.)  Before you can win, you must tell yourself and your guys that you will win.  And stay loose.  Its fun after all.

B. INITIATIVE

Don?t sit around and react to what the other guy is doing.  Make him react to what you?re doing.  If he doesn?t react, DO IT HARDER!  If you can take him out of his game plan and make him react to your game plan, you are winning.

C. A WORD ABOUT PLAYER VERSUS PLAYER

Ok.  Here is the AWFUL TRUTH AGAIN!  If you want to win a campaign, you MUST KILL THE OTHER GUY?S AI BEFORE HE KILLS YOUR AI.  You kill his AI and flip his hexes to gut his economy and cripple his empire.  The ultimate goal of any campaign is to make your enemy too weak to wage war.  If your enemy starts with ten economy producing planets and you take 5 away from him, you have effectively cut his production capacity in half.  This will make him more and more reluctant to directly engage your players because if he loses that dreadnought, he cannot replace it.  To that end, player versus player combat is only valid in the Dynaverse in one of three situations;

1. You are drafted by your enemy;
2. Player v. Player missions further your objective; and/or
3. You have achieved your objectives and you are ?mopping up.?

I know this offends the heck out of people, but Player v Player FOR ANY OTHER REASON on the Dynaverse is just a dick-measuring contest and MUST BE AVOIDED.  To all of you who sit around thumping your chest and counting ?kills? I say you have done NOTHING to help the cause.  You have not flipped a hex and you have a) probably set your enemy back to a more ?campaign orientated? ship thereby making the enemy stronger for campaign (read hex flipping/econ ruining ships) purposes and b) let other enemies run defensive or offensive missions in your area of operations while you were clowning around for 45 minutes trying to prove your manhood.  Any half way decent player with a half way decent ship can engage you and keep you busy for at least 20 minutes.  You want player v player?  Go play Gamespy.  YOU?RE NOT HELPING!  YOU ARE A WASTE OF RESOURCES!  The average Dynaverse mission is around 7 minutes.  That means your enemies, running AVERAGE missions, have run 6 + missions while you were ?winning? that 45 minute player v player mission.  Think about what that equals out to if they are running fast two-minute missions!  You cannot kill all of the bad guys in that one mission and they will ultimately just replace the ship you blow up anyway unless you wreck their capacity to make war.  And that?s assuming you are lucky enough to score a knockout.  Remember that you might fight for 40 minutes, land a telling blow and then watch your wounded prey warp out over the border.  Now you have COMPLETELY wasted 40 minutes!  Oh, so he has to leave the area for 10 minutes?  So what?  He?ll be back running missions before you finish your next 45 minute player v. player mission.

Ever hear of winning the battle but losing the war?  Well, the ?player v player? testosterone crowd are the living embodiment of this principal in the Dynaverse.  Sorry guys, but you know its true.  I?m going to ruin your economy and then, and only then, I?m going to blow your ass out of that dreadnought.  Then you can sit there on your empire?s one remaining planet hex in that frigate you get as a replacement with a giant mound of prestige you can?t buy a thing with and wait for me to shoot you again or log off and wait for the next campaign.  Either way, I win because you lost sight of the big picture.  So get over yourself!  Player v. player is NOT the point in the Dynaverse. 

Sorry about the rant, but I have a real burr under my saddle about these morons.  They have no concept of team play and that really burns my ass.

D. SPEED

Faster missions flip hexes faster and gut economies faster.  It comes down to basic mathematics here.  Four 2-minute patrols are 4 times more effective for campaign purposes (read Defense Value of Hex Purposes) than a single 8-minute patrol.  Whatever you are up to do it fast.

KAT-Gook, OBS,OoW,MTA,SoK.
KAT-Fleet
Kzinti Hegemony

The God of War hates those who hesitate
.....Eurypides



Offline Gook

  • Catbert
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #1 on: July 14, 2004, 09:26:38 am »
Part Deux ;)


E. THE LIGHT CRUISER AND YOU

For campaign purposes, the Light Cruiser is KING!  Every race has a light cruiser that will run two to three minute missions over and over and over.  Yeah, even the early era Gorn and Romulan.  (BTW it?s up to YOU guys to figure out exactly which light cruiser that is.  I?m not giving away ALL the answers here.)  The problem is, most races NEVER USE THEM BECAUSE THEY PROBABLY SUCK FOR PLAYER V. PLAYER PURPOSES.  In the Klingon ship list, besides the droners, the lowly G2C is the best ship to run 2-minute missions in.  That is right; that POS G2C you never flew!  You can?t swat a housefly in player v player combat with this boat but you can flip hexes like there is no tomorrow.  But your big ?I have a winning player v. player record? ego just wouldn?t let you fly it, eh?

Think about it.  The light cruiser is always the most versatile hull available to every race.  These were MEANT to be the workhorses of every fleet.  They are cheap to buy and maintain and they run disproportionately fast missions because they draw weenie AI opposition.  They can do every mission in the Dynaverse extremely well and fast.  If it is struggling with base assaults, TEAM UP WITH ANOTHER PLAYER!

   Light Cruisers mission times for a simple patrol against AI opponents average around 2 to 3 minutes.  A heavy cruiser is double that averaging around 4 to 6 minutes.  A dread, you guessed it, double the heavy cruiser at around 8 to 16 minutes.  Why?  Crunch power.  A chimp with a dread has a puncher?s chance against a player.  An alpha strike at an inopportune moment from even a retarded AI driven dread can have you reeling and spending an extra 10 minutes winning the mission.  AI is basically a trained chimp.  YOU?RE SUPPOSED TO BEAT IT!  THE REVOLUTIONARY IDEA IS TO BEAT IT AS QUICKLY AND EFFICIENTLY AS POSSIBLE! 

Try this at home.  Take a dread and leave the shields down.  Have your buddy come in and try to kill you.  Even if you don?t fight back or even raise a shield, the dread can take so many internals that it takes about 4 minutes to kill it!  Now just raise the shields and sit there not firing but trying to keep a good shield facing your enemy.  The mission time jumps to around 8 to 9 minutes.

   Ok, so you?re an exceptional player who can do 6-minute average missions in a dread.  So what?  You are STILL neutralized for campaign (hex flipping and DV lowering) purposes.  First, the guys in the light cruiser are running three two-minute missions to your one six-minute mission.  Second, you have to go resupply.  You can?t take a dread into enemy space.  It?s too vulnerable to running out of expendables and damage because it draws that gigantic AI, which might get lucky with all of that firepower.  Third, the durned thing is EXPENSIVE!  You?ll never make enough prestige in it for the ship to recoup the initial expenditure to buy the darned thing and the supplies it runs through. 

Not convinced yet?  Do the math.  A patrol yields around 300 to 400 prestige points average.  The average dreadnought costs 120,000 prestige points to purchase.  That is 300 to 400 missions you must run to recoup your loss and you haven?t paid for supplies yet!  Multiply 350 missions (average of 300 and 400 missions) by 6 minutes (a DARN good mission time in a dread) and you?ve got to play for around 35 hours just to pay for the ship.  The light cruiser is going to cost you around 3500 prestige points.  That is around 9 to 12 missions to recoup the initial investment before supplies.  At two minutes per mission you?ve paid for the initial cost of your light cruiser in around half an hour.  The point is you can risk the light cruiser on missions where you can?t risk a dread such as ?behind the lines? or ?deep strike? activity.  So maybe you?re not a player v. player machine.  So what?  Remember the object of the campaign!  If they blow your light cruiser up, go buy another one!  Heck, they?re so cheap compared to the dread they almost come in a six-pack like disposable razors!

   Oh, you have some dude in a frigate or a freighter to draft you and your dread to get light AI?  Terrific!  Now you have TWO players in one two-minute mission while your opponent has two players running separate two-minute missions.  A next hex flip/DV gain to your opponent of 1 mission per two minutes.  You lose except you lose slower.  Which fleet is maximizing their resources?  Plus now your earning 100 prestige points per mission.  Big deal.  It will cost you 200 prestige points to replace your expendables.

Dreads only have three purposes in the Dynaverse.  First, it is there to shore up pieces of front and chase of invaders.  Well, we know from above how well THAT works and with the draft radius set to zero, the dread is now a paperweight holding down one hex of front while 6 light cruisers run missions in the surrounding hexes.  Unless the draft radius is large, the Dread does this role poorly.  Second, it busts starbases.  Two light cruisers will take down anything except a full starbase in about the same amount of time as a single dread.  I recommend that you tell your light cruiser pilots to just flee from full starbases and go pull another mission.  Why waste time trying to take out a starbase it will take a dread at least 15 minutes to bust anyway?  Go pull another mission.  You might get lucky and get two 2-minute patrols instead.  Third, it is to kill enemy dreads.  It does this pretty well, if you can find them.  But your dreads are going to sit around doing virtually nothing campaign wise until the enemy dread is located.  Then you have to draft the SOB and hope he stays in the fight. 

Basically, for purposes of campaigning, dreads are a big waste of time and effort.  That as a given, it doesn?t make sense to buy the darned things until its time to clean up the live bad guys at the end of the campaign.  By that time, you?ll have saved enough prestige in your light cruiser to buy two dreads to go hunting with.

   In fact, I?d say put the bulk of your guys in light cruisers.  At least put your best captains in them.  Let the new guys run around in the big ships.  They need the extra firepower.  Let your best guys have the equipment that does the most damage when campaigning.  At most, put a few great players in heavy cruisers.  And if your enemy wants to buy dreads for every guy in his fleet, wish him well and hope he buys two dreads apiece for each one of them!  Those will double his mission times again!  The bottom line is this; all things being equal and going mathematically, 10 good captains in light cruisers will out-campaign a fleet of 20 dreads in a week every time.

   On a related note, EVERY ship in the list has a use.  Some are ?campaign type? ships that run good fast missions and some are ?Player v. Player? ships that excel in personal combat.  It is an EXTREMELY rare boat that can do both well.  (The closest thing to a perfect balance I?ve ever seen, and I?ve flown them all, is the Klingon C7V.  You won?t make any money in it running fast missions, but it is the only heavy cruiser that can consistently run 3 to 4 minute missions while occasionally running the odd 2-minute mission, which can then turn around and whack out a human piloted BCH in the very next mission.  The Romulan KHK is a close second but the 3 turn recharge time on the plasmas slow the missions somewhat).  Take the time to get to know ALL the ships in your ship list in terms of campaigning and player v. player roles so you?ll know what is the right ship for the job at hand.

F. HIT THEM WHERE THEY AIN?T

Go kill the enemy AI where there aren?t enemy players to draft and slow you down.  This is especially good if you can get in their backfield and rummage around!  If they show up to defend in force, go somewhere else.  Run around causing confusion and havoc!  Five good light cruiser captains can tie down entire races if they hit quickly where least expected, do tangible damage, and move to a new target as a unit.  You don?t always have to grab a planet.  Just flip a bunch of hexes where they don?t anticipate you being!  It will drive them batty!  If they are undoing what you did yesterday today, you?re killing them today.  Use the multiple targets as feints to draw the enemy to one area while you reorient and pounce on another.

G. DON?T LOSE PERSPECTIVE

Remember the goal is to win the campaign.  Don?t let some loudmouth in general chat distract you from this goal.  Let him brag about how he killed your frigate with his dread.  So what?  While he?s typing, you?re flipping more hexes.  I never met a warrior who won an entire campaign by merely thumping his chest.  Eventually, someone is going to whack his butt.  It doesn?t have to be today, tomorrow or even next week, but the time WILL come for him to get a butt kicking.

H. KEEP IT QUIET

Let me level with you.  I LOVE IT when they chase me around the map and yell at me how I stink.  I LOVE IT when they get on the Taldren boards and cry about ?unfair? and ?rules changes? and ?cheese.?  First, while their typing, I?m flipping hexes!  Second, I KNOW I?M IN THEIR HEADS!  I?ve taken them out of their game plan and they are fixated on ?GET SOCKY!?  While they?re all busy trying to bash me into a grease spot, my team is flipping hexes.  Losers whine and make excuses.  Winners do something about it.  And whatever they are crying about, you?d better believe I?m going to do A LOT MORE OF IT JUST BECAUSE IT GETS THEIR COLLECTIVE GOATS SO BADLY!  Mad about droners?  Now everyone on my team has one!  Don?t like deep strikes?  You?re Homeworld is next!

Be that little bastard defensemen on the hockey team that sticks his elbow in the opponent?s ribs.  Didn?t react to that?  How about a nice whack on the wrist?  Didn?t react to that?  How about a little jab in the ribs with the butt of a stick along the boards?  Never SAY anything.  You don?t want to draw the ref?s attention.  Goad them into doing something stupid like hitting you back.  Never hit them back when they hit you.  Flop on the ice and moan for a penalty.  And now you know their ribs are tender so guess what they?re getting the next time they go in the corner!
   Now they?re chasing you around the ice trying to hit you and you?re leading them a merry chase!  Suddenly they look up at the scoreboard and there are 30 seconds left to play and they?re down two goals!  Hehe!  You win!  Scoreboard says so!  Hope they enjoyed their stay in the penalty box for ?hitting? you!

   Besides that, all plans are much more effective when you can ?spring? it on them.  If they don?t see it coming, your plan will be twice as effective.

I. DO IT TOGETHER

Hey, its about speed remember?  Get as many people in the target area as possible without hurting your other objectives and pig pile on it!  If everyone can run a solo mission, so much the better.

J. DEFENSE

This is my least favorite topic.  That is why it is last.  Until recently I lived by the adage ?you can?t play defense in the Dynaverse.?  That?s not exactly true anymore.  You CAN do it and there are three ways.

A. Play Offense

Go attack him somewhere and make your attack more effective than his attack.  Force him to redirect his resources to stop your offensive.  Real simple.  The best defense is a good offense.  Go play in his sandbox!  When he comes to defend your thrust with enough force to stop you cold, go run up the DVs on the hexes you?re defending.

B. Flank ?em

Get behind him and cut his line of supply.  Force him to turn resources around and rebuild his LOS.  While he?s doing that, run up the DV of the hexes you?re defending.

C. Out mission ?em

Pour your guys in light cruisers into the area and just run defensive missions faster than he can run assault missions.  Nothing is more frustrating than going into a mission on a planet with a DV of 15 and coming out of an 8 minute base assault (which is a scorching mission time for a base assault) and finding the DV up to 18 after your mission reports to the server.  Just run the DVs up faster than they can run them down.

V.   CONCLUSION

   So that?s it!  I know you?re now sitting there thinking, ?I knew that!?  Hey, I didn?t promise any amazing revelations.  I just was the first to write it all down so as you could read it and say, ?I knew that!?  However, if you knew that already, why didn?t you do it?

   If you get nothing else from this manual, take this with you.  1) Have a plan.  2) Seize the initiative.  3) Do it fast.  4) Buy light cruisers.  5) Keep your eyes on the prize and your mouth shut.  Do these five things, and you?ll be tough to beat.

Good luck and kick butt!

Sockfoot


That's all folks :)
KAT-Gook, OBS,OoW,MTA,SoK.
KAT-Fleet
Kzinti Hegemony

The God of War hates those who hesitate
.....Eurypides



Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #2 on: July 14, 2004, 09:51:22 am »
Also know as 'How to Fight a War Without Actually Fighting the Enemy"   :lol:

Thank God for the disengagement rule and other improvements (yes, I said improvements) that D2 has seen.


EDIT:   About 90% of this is really good advise and still relevant.   Good post, but I had to get my "hex-muncher" jab in.

Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #3 on: July 14, 2004, 09:56:11 am »
After reading that, all I can think is "thank God for the Disengagement Rule".

Offline Lepton

  • Lt. Commander
  • *
  • Posts: 1620
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #4 on: July 14, 2004, 11:44:27 am »
Almost every single thing in that manifesto is exactly what is wrong with the D2 and despite the disengagement rule, the hex-flippers still win by being where others are not and avoiding contact with anyone.  Also, despite the disengagement rule, you can still tie up players and run missions under them, which to me makes it barely different from the past regime.

I have been saying this stuff since I got here, and here is a person who bases their whole strategy upon it.  Now tell me I'm wrong again.  I can't think of a more damning indictment of the D2 than this document.  The whole of the manifesto exactly undermines why anyone would actually like to play this game, as it basically asks one to spend as little time in the actual game engine as possible and to play using the same ship and using the same tactics for hours on end.  What is the point??  I AM NOT AN AUTOMOTON AND I WON'T PLAY IN A WAY THAT MAKES ME ONE!!!  This is board game strategy and I am not a colored paper counter on a hexogoned cardboard map nor is the outcome of my efforts equivalent to a die roll.

Ooo!  That was fun!  Rant over.


System Specs:

Dell Dimension E521
AMD64x2 5000+
2G DDR2 RAM
ATI Radeon HD 4850 512MB GDDR3
250GB SATA HD

Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #5 on: July 14, 2004, 11:55:50 am »


<S'Cipio reads post>

<S'Cipio looks for Lepton1>

<S'Cipio starts counting>

1

2

5

Almost every single thing in that manifesto is exactly what is wrong with the D2

Damn!  Didn't even make it to, "three, sir!"

 :rofl:

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #6 on: July 14, 2004, 12:02:42 pm »
. . .the hex-flippers still win by being where others are not and avoiding contact with anyone. 

Geez Lepton what is wrong with you?   This is only a problem when the Federation flies like that  :lol:
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #7 on: July 14, 2004, 12:13:37 pm »
Wow, I think I first read that post two years ago.  Mr. Gook, you are hereby officially appointed as the historian of G'hdar.  (No need to change allegiance or genus; we Bruce are an open-minded lot.)

It's amazing how well most of that document stands up to the passage of the ages.  At the time, that was a masters work by the much-missed Sockfoot.

However, it does show wear in a spot or two.

PvP *is* much more important now than it used to be.  This is strictly a result of the evolution of VC's.  In the olde days, taking key points of territory was all that mattered.  These days, you actually score points for killing certain ships, and the disengagement rule makes planets harder to assault.  I believe that the last few campaigns have all ended with margins of victory that were inside the difference in PvP score (RDSL certainly did) and thus it can be argued that PvP *did* win the campaign.  If "Captain Lucky" hadn't killed "Captain Targetboy", the victory result would have reversed.

But killing the enemy's economy and disrupting his lines of supply -- and launching distracting sneak attacks -- are still big parts of the game.  Not to mention that they are parrts of the game that I love.

-S'Cipio
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Capt Jeff

  • 1AF
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 736
  • Gender: Male
    • Facebook
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2004, 12:24:56 pm »
Yes, I'm glad all of these "Improvements" have kept sooo many people playing....I mean Gook and I loved our private chat we had this morning.....when we were the only two on the server.  Then  he left me alone for about 1/2 hour until one other person showed up.

Ahhh, the good ole days, when even at 6am, there were 40+ people on.   PvP just about anywhere you wanted it, and fun and comradery of all those guys on voice chat...
Capt Jeff

Former SFC2.NET Administrator
C.O., Heavy Command Cruiser
USS Crasher NCC 1733

1AF---Friendship, Honor, Fun.  It's what we Play For.

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2004, 12:32:40 pm »

Ahhh, the good ole days, when even at 6am, there were 40+ people on.   PvP just about anywhere you wanted it, and fun and comradery of all those guys on voice chat...

yes, making the game into more of a contest of who can press the "z" key the quickest sure is the reason that a 4 year old game full of bugs has a lower player-base.   i think you're on to something :rofl:

Had the D2 BS been addressed earlier, we'd still have Romulans, Hydrans, and Lyrans.
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline GDA-S'Cipio

  • Brucimus Maximus
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 5749
  • Gender: Male
  • If I took the bones out, it wouldn't be crunchy.
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2004, 12:37:09 pm »
Yes, I'm glad all of these "Improvements" have kept sooo many people playing....

So, as long as we are waxing nostalgaic about the differences between the olde days and the now days, which "improvements", specifically, do you think are actually detriments?

For my next campaign, some of the old-school stuff actually makes sense.  I might (or might not) want to take some of your thoughts on board.

-S'Cipio the Herr Burt
"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which granted a right to Congress of expending, on the objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents."  - James Madison (chief author of the Constitution)

-----------------------------------------
Gorn Dragon Alliance member
Gorn Dragon Templar
Coulda' used a little more cowbell
-----------------------------------------


Offline Hexx

  • Sexy Shoeless Lyran God Of War
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 6058
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2004, 01:04:45 pm »

Ahhh, the good ole days, when even at 6am, there were 40+ people on.   PvP just about anywhere you wanted it, and fun and comradery of all those guys on voice chat...


Had the D2 BS been addressed earlier, we'd still have Romulans, Hydrans, and Lyrans.


<coughs discreetly>
Courageously Protesting "Lyran Pelt Day"

762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2004, 01:11:51 pm »
He meant good ones Hexx.

<snicker>

Offline TotensBurntCorpse

  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 106
  • Gender: Male
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2004, 01:44:30 pm »
TotensFriedFeline Reporting sir !

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2004, 01:52:45 pm »
TotensFriedFeline Reporting sir !

That makes 1 1/2 lyrans <SNICKER>
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline Gook

  • Catbert
  • Lt. Junior Grade
  • *
  • Posts: 405
  • Gender: Male
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #15 on: July 14, 2004, 03:21:18 pm »
I keep hearing about improvements, don't see any, really. Played 2.5 of the new "Improved" Dyna's, was I wowed? not really. Lets see we have everybody meeting at a prearranged choke point for 2-3 weeks of jousting. Just to make sure everybody turns up at the right place at the right time, VCs are published for all! No longer to RMs get secret objectives and the other guy has to work out what you are up to, you get told so you don't miss the slugfest over no mans land.

On top of that we now all have to fly effectively the same ships all the time, can only fly them in certain areas, and woe betide anybody who dares question the Emperors new wclothes. The Vocal few acclaim from on high how much better it is now than in the bad old days where they cheated by playing ships other than BCHs, didn't do what they were "supposed" to and generally had fun. The Espirit de Corps of many fleets and even races has departed. The Politiking has gone and yes so has the spying (but publish VCs for all instead!), but Rommies are supposed to do that Just like Kzin are supposed to use drones. If you know something is likely make contingencies. Hell the Coalition couldn't even find a SAC until Julin volunteered himself!

Not being able to catch a DSer seems to occupy many minds, I could live with EITHER disengagement rule (similar to older anti patrol bug rule but twice as long) or he has to stay and fight, but both is just unjustifiable. Not being able to flip a hex without LOS, why??? It means you have a secure flank you don't have to watch and pile more into the jousting arena.

We even had the really sad sight of AI being nerfed because it was to hard for the people who wanted more AI by having multiple AI in missions!

Now all the above would mean nothing if the player base had stopped shrinking, and people returned to the fold with renewed vigour,and  new blood was being absorbed to make up any natural wastage. Is that happening? No. If it is not the rules, then perhaps the interminable DLs, have you read some of the threads with new guys trying to get on, its like having to have a computing degree sometimes, no wonder the player base dwindles.

Guys the game has to be as enteratining as possible for as many as possible. What we know is that at least 50% of the current player base want less regulation, and more old time laissez faire, but to hear the comments of some you would think there had been no plebiscite and that they had actually been in the majority.

Then we are confronted with the idea that spacewarfare is more akin to land warfare than naval warfare, why? because there are contiguous hexes on a map! Suddenly parsecs of space become like some imagined maginot striding accross the Galaxy, its all frankly to absurd, if I hadn'r read and heard it being propunded with my own ears, I never would have believed it.

Now some of the old stuff is bad, but not all, and not nearly as much as is made out, and not all that is new is good. One persons way of wanting to play is just that, and should not be foisted on others who want to play differently. Just read some of what has been said about AF, some bad, some very bad, but way more good memories which many would like to recreate, but as soon as any one deviates from the alleged accepted orthodoxy, howls and sniping are rampant, as though if you repeat yourself more times than the other guy or shout louder, you are right. There is no right and wrong way to play, some want BCH fest, some want Commando cruisers, some want escorts, some want drone boats, some want fleets, some want affordable CVs,DNs, even BBs what we have a progression of Command vessels usually culminating in a BCH, with every effort to make anything else as unplayable as possible, as that migt interfere with the joust.

Can we just stop trying to enforce "balance" or whatever metaphore is current and let people play what they want, and have fun. At the very least have alternate servers.
KAT-Gook, OBS,OoW,MTA,SoK.
KAT-Fleet
Kzinti Hegemony

The God of War hates those who hesitate
.....Eurypides



Offline SSCF-LeRoy

  • Kim's Clubhouse Painter
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 923
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain
    • SSCF.net
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #16 on: July 14, 2004, 03:35:29 pm »
I agree with the Gook. There's no wrong way to play the game. When someobody has a random brain fart about how to run a D2 campaign, they oughtta be able to throw up there on the net and let people vote with there participation without a bunch o' badmouthin' from the peanut gallery. If the D2 gits stuck in a rut on how a campaign should be conducted, then it ceases to be interesting. All approaches should be considered. There, that's my $0.02

762_XC

  • Guest
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #17 on: July 14, 2004, 03:50:04 pm »
You weren't around then LeRoy. Gook's vision of D2 is exactly what I remember from 2 years ago, and it sucked compared to what we have today. Just MHO.

D2, in my eyes, has matured like a fine wine. Disengagement rule, FM rules, and single ship rules have rescued it from chaos.

To each his own.

BTW Jeff and Gook, the playerbase is smaller now because the game is 4 years old, not because dyna sucks with more rules.  :skeptic:

Offline FPF-DieHard

  • DDO Junkie
  • Captain
  • *
  • Posts: 9461
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #18 on: July 14, 2004, 03:57:20 pm »
Can we just stop trying to enforce "balance" or whatever metaphore is current and let people play what they want, and have fun. At the very least have alternate servers.

Your idea of "fun" is a big snorefest to many of us.  I think it sucks.

What you want is clearly what many do not.  it is not fun for all, I'd hate it.  

The changes made never would have made if the majority of people believed that "cheesing" your way across the map in a DF was a fun.  Many of us do not.  I will go as far as saying we have lost more because because changes were not made soon enough.

Have fun fighting AI, i'll play a real game.

A server admin can do whatever the heck they want.   Players can do whatever the heck they want and will vote with their feet.  Your idea of a perfect server is less interesting than internet porn.  Not worth waisting my time.

EDIT:   Sweet sig pic Leroy, you do that yourself?
« Last Edit: July 14, 2004, 04:16:00 pm by FPF-DieHard »
Who'd thunk that Star-castling was the root of all evil . . .


Offline SSCF-LeRoy

  • Kim's Clubhouse Painter
  • Lt.
  • *
  • Posts: 923
  • Gender: Male
  • Captain
    • SSCF.net
Re: Socky's campaign guide VERY LONG
« Reply #19 on: July 14, 2004, 04:18:06 pm »
A server admin can do whatever the heck they want.   Players can do whatever the heck they want and will vote with their feet.
 

My sentiments exactly. I like playing on both highly structured campaigns and "lazes faire" servers. "Lazes faire" fun servers provide a breath o' fresh air after the conclusion of structured serious servers and the serious servers are a welcome change after cheese fest fun servers. Anybody should be able to put up whatever kind of server they want and the people can vote just by playin' or not playin' without resortin' to hate mail or flame wars.   

Quote
Sweet sig pic Leroy, you do that yourself?


Yepper, I did