Topic: Do we need another Star Trek Command Game?

[Age]

    I was thinking of this last night do we need another Stat Fleet Command game? My answer to third is not at the moment or possibly for the next 2 to 3 years or 4.We have enough problems attracting people to play the current games let alone a new one.I would say the SFC series came out to fast we should be just starting to play Orion Pirates.It has a hard time drawing people to play the other Empires for possibly the exception of the Federation and Klingon.That is what everybody is attracted to I wonder why?I would say that Romulans would be third.
   I am even hearing that SFC3 has a hard time drawing players to that game as well.I even hear that players are trying to find that game.I think that it is time that Activision started publishing some more of that game considering they destroyed all the left over copies.I believe that if the community push them for this they might do so.I am not sure what would get Activision attention to do this but there must be some way maybe the community has some Ideas on this.This would be great for those that want to play on D3.
   I want to get back to SFC2 OP.I know that there are players looking for this game still by what I see on the board and I am wondering if their is a legal way to have it sub contract by another Publisher considering Interplay is no longer around all they would need is a copy of the game and access to the source code .This could help in publishing more games and there is still a big market for Orion Pirates not to mention that FireSoul has gone through his third installment with OP+ which he put a lot of time into.
   I know that Tracey G said it somewhere that when a game reaches the end of its marketable life she made a good point. I don't believe they have reached the end of there marketable end of there life she said something else like having them all patched up with the mods added to them that would be great idea.This SFC2 OP and the previous series that I am referring to.I would say that there is still a market out there for these games SFC3 and prior.I don't think we need another Star Trek Command game for the next few years.There is still plenty of life left in these games I would say no we don't need another one right now.
    What do you think?

[J. Carney]

I'll buy it- as long as it sticks more towards the SFC2 - SFC:OP type game.

If it's like DomWars or SFC3, then don't even expect me to waste breath laughing at it.

[EmeraldEdge]

The problem was SFC3 swayed from the previously set mark far too much, and delivered next to no content in and of iteself, requiring downloading of mods to get much of anything out of it past the initial impression.   Otherwise we might all be playing SFC3.

The thing with a series is that you want to build upon what you have.  The whole reason for a sequel is that the first sold enough and had enough of a following that you want to go back and tap that well once again, rather than finding a different well but calling it the same thing.   There would likely have been a lot of folks switching from EAW to OP sooner than they did, but they insisted on playing games with unpopular balance tweaks, and let the game fall behind it's predecessor in functionallity as well, so there were a lot of reasons not to switch since one was just and "expansion".   This is what has helped to fracture the community from mostly being in one place.

Do we need another SFC?   Yes, we do.   Sadly they have done a great deal of damage to the developement with SFC3 because it is so different.   Now you have fans who want that gameplay rather than that of the style of the previous 3.   It makes it much harder to actually get everybody back on the same note with a new game.  On the plus side, SFC3 doesn't appear to be anywhere near as popular as any of the previous SFC titles were when they were in their hey-day, so you are likely to offend fewer if you go back to the old and augment it rather than sticking with the newer design, imo.   What we need is a game that is HIGHLY moddable so that folks can really get the flavor they want, and not just stick in a few models to make it look different.   Other games allow this, and I think we could see some great things if we had the types of tools that are out there for other games.   We need to get back to the high content of flavor that SFC1 had with racial screens for all, individually, but expand beyond anything SFC has right now.   Just another version of the same old won't do.  Damage has been done to the name through so many actions and mistakes, that it really needs to pop out with something new.   Many have discussed what that might be (a better campaign/Dynaverse mode would be my biggest bet on what could draw folks back in.  One that makes folks feel like they are in a living universe, and part of a real starfleet).  Anyhow, I truly feel that we do need one, but it's got to be a REAL SFC  not some half baked project with missing features, or lacking content, it's got to be the real deal otherwise I'd let it lay for a while until someone is up to the task.

[Crusader]

Another SFC doesn't need to be called SFC.

I would create a new game under another title.  The new title would focus on a Trek "historical" and "strategic" theme, allowing players to play out the various wars noted throughout Trek history.  They could also play famous individual battles at a tactical level.

Design a strategic game that uses SFC OP to resolve combat "optionally".  The strategic game would be the focus of the game, with tactical depth added using an upgraded SFC OP engine as icing on the cake.

This game would have the tactical gameplay of SFC OP but for "All Eras".  The SFC OP game system can be expanded to allow earlier and later Trek periods to be played so that there is a continuity and progression in ships, weapons, and systems from early to late.

For example, a "laser 1" from the Earth Romulan War era would do weak damage compared to a "phaser 1" from TOS era in a manner that was proportional and makes sense.  It would be obvious that a laser was a more primitive weapon than a phaser to players fighting each other with such weapons.  As another example, A Federation CA from TOS era would not be able to compete with a Galaxy class cruiser from TNG era because the TOS CA's weapons, shields, systems, and engines would be inferior within the game system.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  This guy has expanded Star Fleet Battles gaming system into earlier and later eras in just the manner I am describing:

http://www.smileylich.com/sfb/index.html

This new game's campaigns could include the Earth / Romulan War, the Dominion War, the ISC pacification, the Andromedan War, and others.  The gameplay map would reflect the political realities of the time selected.  For example races that existed earlier may have been wiped out or incorporated into other empires by later times.  The "date" selected for play would determine what the map looked like and what races were available.  Also, a map editor would allow players to create their own strategic campaigns that didn't necessarily reflect canon Trek history.

The date selected would also determine what ships, weapons, and systems were available.  Ships, weapons, and systems would not only have a date first available, but also a date where it was phased out.

The game will have "orders of battle" that reflect economic realities.  Battleships will be rare.....Frigates plentiful.

Lastly, the game will have a "realistic" refit system.  No total ship overhauls in one day at a far off starbase!!!!

[J. Carney]

Crusader,

Are you refering to setting it up like the Total War[.i] series games? This is what it sounds like to me, though I could be wrong.

If so, mark me down as a reserved copy buyer, becauseafter even a year, Midevil: Total War is still one of my most played games.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

[IndyShark]

I would love to see a new SFC game with Andros, Tholians, more ships and better graphics. I'd also like to see it adopt a F&E style economy.

[Rod ONeal]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

Well, this is the first time that I've heard this. We need THAT source code as well, then.

[Rota]

The problem with SFC3 was that it was indeed "unfinished". The only race that didn't suffer from the 'incomplete" bug was the Federation. If another Star Trek game is released, I hope that the testers
look at all the races more closely, maybe add the Federation to the mix at the very end so there are not so many bugs across the other races. Maybe if the game was worked on for another 6 mos it would have been complete. Hopefully the future incarnations will not involve sfb and will be pure trek.

[Don Karnage]

well maybe not a sfc4 but a startrek game, maybe not .mod but a 3d modeling is a must, the big problem with sfc3 is its empty and not enough type of ship and lack of races, sfc2/op eaw is easy to use and more fun, in sfc3 there no ship edit, what could be fun in a startrek game is  more action, (i did say it else where), when you want to make an upgrade of your ship like from fca to fca+ you get your ship in the drydock, and when you want a new ship you have to drive your ship into a starbase and dock it, there you can view the ship and see the spec of the ship you want, not like sfc3 but kinda when you use mod viewer to view a ship,  like age says a multy are from tos to tmp to the ship after the enterprise B, to the enterprise C to the next generation and beyond, also having special point reward when you capture an enemy ship, and when you capture it the ship stay in your command (not just during the mission) but untill you sell it, also to be able to build a ship, a little like in the game ship creator, and more variant of a ship and more type of ship, all the type of ship that the fed have build in 100 years, a real cloaking like in sfc3, a way to go into revers, and be able to go into warp in a system, in the system there should be a sun and planet, space debry from destroyd ship, be able leave a system and go to another but not like in the octagone map but in space, a new startrek game would need to be bether that sfc3 and take not of all the players of the sfc's game want in it so the game will not be made in a rush, also for the multy player is to be able to battle a human player insted if the a.i., example when you must attack an enemy convoy you will battle a human insted of the a.i., and be able to leave the fed and join the klingon with your ship,a captured ship by you or any other should be available to purchase.

[Crusader]

Crusader,

Are you refering to setting it up like the Total War[.i] series games? This is what it sounds like to me, though I could be wrong.

Yes the Total War series model is exactly what I had in mind for a future SFC based game.  SFC OP is already a well developed tactical game.  Now all we need is a strategic game to give the tactical game more meaning.

If we could have a new game series that incorporated the SFC OP tactical gameplay into a new, equally deep. strategic game.....we'd have the perfect game.

We could call it.....Star Fleet Command:  Total War.

[J. Carney]

SFC: Total War... it does have a nice ring to it, don't it?

Yeah. I don't mind the TNG action that we are hearing about, either; but we need to keep as much of the SFB materials as the Honorable High Priest of SFB, the Right Reverend Stephen V. Cole, will allow us to get away with.

I'm sorry to say this but SFC3 sucked weapon wise. All the heavies were just re-skinned photons with different sound effects.BORING!!! The Ion Beam was the only good thing to come out of SFC3, and it should have been used for some playable Carddies rather than to give the Klingons one more rock to chuck.
=====================================================

And don't even get me started on that 'MechWarrior in space' type 'design your own ship spacedock. A Navy captian doesn't drive down Newport News and say:

"Yes, I'd like to order a Ticonderoga-class hull with a GE SW5 reactor instead of the fuel oil boilers, a pair of 3-gun 16" turrets- one fore and one rear- instead of the missile racks, and oh.... can I replace the 2 Seahawks with Harriers?"

Navy ships are built alike for a reason... cost and effectiveness. That will never change.

If you want to swap weapons out before every mission, I've got MechWarrior 4 here, and it stinks. Name your price- MW4 and MW4: Mercenaries for anything over $10.
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Give us good solid ships with a realistic refit system, like the one from SFC1, thoug it takesyou out of action a few turns becauise they are ripping the guts out of your ship- and that takes time.

I say stick with SFB rules for the base because they are established and work really well with realtime battles since they have already been tweaked. Just use them as the template for making the weapons for the other eras and you have a good solid starting point.

Drones are canon- Ferengi ships mount misssile launchers... we can even keep drones in TNG era.
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Strategically, there are some many examples to follow (please not Birth of the Federation... that was one birth I would have supported abortion on!), there should be no real way to mess it up.

As stated above, I like the Total War series the best... but it is very large and it might give slow comps the screaming heebie-jeebies!
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Thus endeth my rant on what I'd like to see in the next Trek game.

*ducks to avoid return fire*

[Rota]

If it's a Star Trek game, missiles have got to be left out. 
It needs to be open, continuous space. Refittable ships are the neatest sh*t since peanut butter !
It sucks when you can't customize your ship to your flying style and it keeps the enemy from getting comfortable and using the same freaking stale tactics that were built into the game to give them an advantage(read feds lol).The current sfc3 mods blow the D2 away imho. If there is to be another incarnation of sfc, it should look to open space and the current D3 mods if it wants to draw serious gamers with bucks to spend
Let's forget nostalgia and shoot for a great COMPLETE game.

[Bonk]

Rota, you miss the point. (Not to invalidate your opinion)

SFC exists only because SFB exists. We have been playing the same game for like 30 years now, we get a little cranky if you try and mess with it. SFC drew a lot of us in because it was pretty true to SFB. SFC3 lost a lot of us because it pandered to the idea of turning it into something else entirely, bad idea. Should have made a different game entirely like homeworld or something to satisfy the new trekkie crowd reared on TNG, DS9 etc... the dedicated fan base of SFC grew up watching TOS - on the first run... and playing SFB on hex paper... we lusted for the day something like SFC would come along... what SFC3 did was a terrible shame - it dissatisfied two markets...I threw my copy of SFC3 away after a week, it broke my heart...

[Rota]

Maybe you haven't spent enough time playing the new D3 mods? No offense intended, but I grew up watching TOS also, and sfb is no where close to TOS.I also spent a long time on the D2 and it was far from trek as well (the drones ruined the game for me). If  you want a pure sfb game I hope they make it for you. But there is no sales draw in it so I hope they make a fast paced, continuous space, all the bells and whistles, need to buy a new graphics card to play, need 1gb of ram to run, slobberknocker of a game.
I hope they combine continuous space,multiplayer away team missions on planets and ships. The ability to beam over to your enemies ship via a downed shield and personally punk slap him in his captains chair would be nice too

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

If it's a Star Trek game, missiles have got to be left out. 

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

[Bonk]

Exactly my point, you have grasped it well.  You would certainly be disappointed with a proper computerised SFB just as I would be disappointed by another space shooter. (Though I do not make any connection between SFB and the TOS other than their place in time.. SFB is a game unto itself.. i.e. I Don't believe Larry Niven's Kzin were in the TOS.. anyway, I thnk we've illustrated the point well here and this ground has been covered many, many times.)

Here's hoping you get the Trek game you want and I get the SFB game I want! (No reason both can't exist - except for the evils of money and corporate greed... oops, thats another rant... )

[Rota]

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

Did you see that in a TOS episode? Will it sell enough games to make a profit after all the costs associated with putting the game out? If that were to be a small part of the game, in a selectable era, it might work. But if the entire game is based on a board game it probably won't ever see a store shelf Atleast not in this current market where the competition sells alot more action and options.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

Did you see that in a TOS episode? Will it sell enough games to make a profit after all the costs associated with putting the game out? If that were to be a small part of the game, in a selectable era, it might work. But if the entire game is based on a board game it probably won't ever see a store shelf At least not in this current market where the competition sells alot more action and options.

Balance of Terror....


Yes to have them available tho would be good..outdated weapon to be sure but it would make for an interesting campaign.

[Rota]

Balance of Terror....

I don't remember seeing the Enterprise launching them. I was pretty young at the time though