Topic: Do we need another Star Trek Command Game?

[Age]

    I was thinking of this last night do we need another Stat Fleet Command game? My answer to third is not at the moment or possibly for the next 2 to 3 years or 4.We have enough problems attracting people to play the current games let alone a new one.I would say the SFC series came out to fast we should be just starting to play Orion Pirates.It has a hard time drawing people to play the other Empires for possibly the exception of the Federation and Klingon.That is what everybody is attracted to I wonder why?I would say that Romulans would be third.
   I am even hearing that SFC3 has a hard time drawing players to that game as well.I even hear that players are trying to find that game.I think that it is time that Activision started publishing some more of that game considering they destroyed all the left over copies.I believe that if the community push them for this they might do so.I am not sure what would get Activision attention to do this but there must be some way maybe the community has some Ideas on this.This would be great for those that want to play on D3.
   I want to get back to SFC2 OP.I know that there are players looking for this game still by what I see on the board and I am wondering if their is a legal way to have it sub contract by another Publisher considering Interplay is no longer around all they would need is a copy of the game and access to the source code .This could help in publishing more games and there is still a big market for Orion Pirates not to mention that FireSoul has gone through his third installment with OP+ which he put a lot of time into.
   I know that Tracey G said it somewhere that when a game reaches the end of its marketable life she made a good point. I don't believe they have reached the end of there marketable end of there life she said something else like having them all patched up with the mods added to them that would be great idea.This SFC2 OP and the previous series that I am referring to.I would say that there is still a market out there for these games SFC3 and prior.I don't think we need another Star Trek Command game for the next few years.There is still plenty of life left in these games I would say no we don't need another one right now.
    What do you think?

[J. Carney]

I'll buy it- as long as it sticks more towards the SFC2 - SFC:OP type game.

If it's like DomWars or SFC3, then don't even expect me to waste breath laughing at it.

[EmeraldEdge]

The problem was SFC3 swayed from the previously set mark far too much, and delivered next to no content in and of iteself, requiring downloading of mods to get much of anything out of it past the initial impression.   Otherwise we might all be playing SFC3.

The thing with a series is that you want to build upon what you have.  The whole reason for a sequel is that the first sold enough and had enough of a following that you want to go back and tap that well once again, rather than finding a different well but calling it the same thing.   There would likely have been a lot of folks switching from EAW to OP sooner than they did, but they insisted on playing games with unpopular balance tweaks, and let the game fall behind it's predecessor in functionallity as well, so there were a lot of reasons not to switch since one was just and "expansion".   This is what has helped to fracture the community from mostly being in one place.

Do we need another SFC?   Yes, we do.   Sadly they have done a great deal of damage to the developement with SFC3 because it is so different.   Now you have fans who want that gameplay rather than that of the style of the previous 3.   It makes it much harder to actually get everybody back on the same note with a new game.  On the plus side, SFC3 doesn't appear to be anywhere near as popular as any of the previous SFC titles were when they were in their hey-day, so you are likely to offend fewer if you go back to the old and augment it rather than sticking with the newer design, imo.   What we need is a game that is HIGHLY moddable so that folks can really get the flavor they want, and not just stick in a few models to make it look different.   Other games allow this, and I think we could see some great things if we had the types of tools that are out there for other games.   We need to get back to the high content of flavor that SFC1 had with racial screens for all, individually, but expand beyond anything SFC has right now.   Just another version of the same old won't do.  Damage has been done to the name through so many actions and mistakes, that it really needs to pop out with something new.   Many have discussed what that might be (a better campaign/Dynaverse mode would be my biggest bet on what could draw folks back in.  One that makes folks feel like they are in a living universe, and part of a real starfleet).  Anyhow, I truly feel that we do need one, but it's got to be a REAL SFC  not some half baked project with missing features, or lacking content, it's got to be the real deal otherwise I'd let it lay for a while until someone is up to the task.

[Crusader]

Another SFC doesn't need to be called SFC.

I would create a new game under another title.  The new title would focus on a Trek "historical" and "strategic" theme, allowing players to play out the various wars noted throughout Trek history.  They could also play famous individual battles at a tactical level.

Design a strategic game that uses SFC OP to resolve combat "optionally".  The strategic game would be the focus of the game, with tactical depth added using an upgraded SFC OP engine as icing on the cake.

This game would have the tactical gameplay of SFC OP but for "All Eras".  The SFC OP game system can be expanded to allow earlier and later Trek periods to be played so that there is a continuity and progression in ships, weapons, and systems from early to late.

For example, a "laser 1" from the Earth Romulan War era would do weak damage compared to a "phaser 1" from TOS era in a manner that was proportional and makes sense.  It would be obvious that a laser was a more primitive weapon than a phaser to players fighting each other with such weapons.  As another example, A Federation CA from TOS era would not be able to compete with a Galaxy class cruiser from TNG era because the TOS CA's weapons, shields, systems, and engines would be inferior within the game system.

Here's an example of what I'm talking about.  This guy has expanded Star Fleet Battles gaming system into earlier and later eras in just the manner I am describing:

http://www.smileylich.com/sfb/index.html

This new game's campaigns could include the Earth / Romulan War, the Dominion War, the ISC pacification, the Andromedan War, and others.  The gameplay map would reflect the political realities of the time selected.  For example races that existed earlier may have been wiped out or incorporated into other empires by later times.  The "date" selected for play would determine what the map looked like and what races were available.  Also, a map editor would allow players to create their own strategic campaigns that didn't necessarily reflect canon Trek history.

The date selected would also determine what ships, weapons, and systems were available.  Ships, weapons, and systems would not only have a date first available, but also a date where it was phased out.

The game will have "orders of battle" that reflect economic realities.  Battleships will be rare.....Frigates plentiful.

Lastly, the game will have a "realistic" refit system.  No total ship overhauls in one day at a far off starbase!!!!

[J. Carney]

Crusader,

Are you refering to setting it up like the Total War[.i] series games? This is what it sounds like to me, though I could be wrong.

If so, mark me down as a reserved copy buyer, becauseafter even a year, Midevil: Total War is still one of my most played games.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

[IndyShark]

I would love to see a new SFC game with Andros, Tholians, more ships and better graphics. I'd also like to see it adopt a F&E style economy.

[Rod ONeal]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

Well, this is the first time that I've heard this. We need THAT source code as well, then.

[Rota]

The problem with SFC3 was that it was indeed "unfinished". The only race that didn't suffer from the 'incomplete" bug was the Federation. If another Star Trek game is released, I hope that the testers
look at all the races more closely, maybe add the Federation to the mix at the very end so there are not so many bugs across the other races. Maybe if the game was worked on for another 6 mos it would have been complete. Hopefully the future incarnations will not involve sfb and will be pure trek.

[Don Karnage]

well maybe not a sfc4 but a startrek game, maybe not .mod but a 3d modeling is a must, the big problem with sfc3 is its empty and not enough type of ship and lack of races, sfc2/op eaw is easy to use and more fun, in sfc3 there no ship edit, what could be fun in a startrek game is  more action, (i did say it else where), when you want to make an upgrade of your ship like from fca to fca+ you get your ship in the drydock, and when you want a new ship you have to drive your ship into a starbase and dock it, there you can view the ship and see the spec of the ship you want, not like sfc3 but kinda when you use mod viewer to view a ship,  like age says a multy are from tos to tmp to the ship after the enterprise B, to the enterprise C to the next generation and beyond, also having special point reward when you capture an enemy ship, and when you capture it the ship stay in your command (not just during the mission) but untill you sell it, also to be able to build a ship, a little like in the game ship creator, and more variant of a ship and more type of ship, all the type of ship that the fed have build in 100 years, a real cloaking like in sfc3, a way to go into revers, and be able to go into warp in a system, in the system there should be a sun and planet, space debry from destroyd ship, be able leave a system and go to another but not like in the octagone map but in space, a new startrek game would need to be bether that sfc3 and take not of all the players of the sfc's game want in it so the game will not be made in a rush, also for the multy player is to be able to battle a human player insted if the a.i., example when you must attack an enemy convoy you will battle a human insted of the a.i., and be able to leave the fed and join the klingon with your ship,a captured ship by you or any other should be available to purchase.

[Crusader]

Crusader,

Are you refering to setting it up like the Total War[.i] series games? This is what it sounds like to me, though I could be wrong.

Yes the Total War series model is exactly what I had in mind for a future SFC based game.  SFC OP is already a well developed tactical game.  Now all we need is a strategic game to give the tactical game more meaning.

If we could have a new game series that incorporated the SFC OP tactical gameplay into a new, equally deep. strategic game.....we'd have the perfect game.

We could call it.....Star Fleet Command:  Total War.

[J. Carney]

SFC: Total War... it does have a nice ring to it, don't it?

Yeah. I don't mind the TNG action that we are hearing about, either; but we need to keep as much of the SFB materials as the Honorable High Priest of SFB, the Right Reverend Stephen V. Cole, will allow us to get away with.

I'm sorry to say this but SFC3 sucked weapon wise. All the heavies were just re-skinned photons with different sound effects.BORING!!! The Ion Beam was the only good thing to come out of SFC3, and it should have been used for some playable Carddies rather than to give the Klingons one more rock to chuck.
=====================================================

And don't even get me started on that 'MechWarrior in space' type 'design your own ship spacedock. A Navy captian doesn't drive down Newport News and say:

"Yes, I'd like to order a Ticonderoga-class hull with a GE SW5 reactor instead of the fuel oil boilers, a pair of 3-gun 16" turrets- one fore and one rear- instead of the missile racks, and oh.... can I replace the 2 Seahawks with Harriers?"

Navy ships are built alike for a reason... cost and effectiveness. That will never change.

If you want to swap weapons out before every mission, I've got MechWarrior 4 here, and it stinks. Name your price- MW4 and MW4: Mercenaries for anything over $10.
=====================================================

Give us good solid ships with a realistic refit system, like the one from SFC1, thoug it takesyou out of action a few turns becauise they are ripping the guts out of your ship- and that takes time.

I say stick with SFB rules for the base because they are established and work really well with realtime battles since they have already been tweaked. Just use them as the template for making the weapons for the other eras and you have a good solid starting point.

Drones are canon- Ferengi ships mount misssile launchers... we can even keep drones in TNG era.
=====================================================

Strategically, there are some many examples to follow (please not Birth of the Federation... that was one birth I would have supported abortion on!), there should be no real way to mess it up.

As stated above, I like the Total War series the best... but it is very large and it might give slow comps the screaming heebie-jeebies!
=====================================================

Thus endeth my rant on what I'd like to see in the next Trek game.

*ducks to avoid return fire*

[Rota]

If it's a Star Trek game, missiles have got to be left out. 
It needs to be open, continuous space. Refittable ships are the neatest sh*t since peanut butter !
It sucks when you can't customize your ship to your flying style and it keeps the enemy from getting comfortable and using the same freaking stale tactics that were built into the game to give them an advantage(read feds lol).The current sfc3 mods blow the D2 away imho. If there is to be another incarnation of sfc, it should look to open space and the current D3 mods if it wants to draw serious gamers with bucks to spend
Let's forget nostalgia and shoot for a great COMPLETE game.

[Bonk]

Rota, you miss the point. (Not to invalidate your opinion)

SFC exists only because SFB exists. We have been playing the same game for like 30 years now, we get a little cranky if you try and mess with it. SFC drew a lot of us in because it was pretty true to SFB. SFC3 lost a lot of us because it pandered to the idea of turning it into something else entirely, bad idea. Should have made a different game entirely like homeworld or something to satisfy the new trekkie crowd reared on TNG, DS9 etc... the dedicated fan base of SFC grew up watching TOS - on the first run... and playing SFB on hex paper... we lusted for the day something like SFC would come along... what SFC3 did was a terrible shame - it dissatisfied two markets...I threw my copy of SFC3 away after a week, it broke my heart...

[Rota]

Maybe you haven't spent enough time playing the new D3 mods? No offense intended, but I grew up watching TOS also, and sfb is no where close to TOS.I also spent a long time on the D2 and it was far from trek as well (the drones ruined the game for me). If  you want a pure sfb game I hope they make it for you. But there is no sales draw in it so I hope they make a fast paced, continuous space, all the bells and whistles, need to buy a new graphics card to play, need 1gb of ram to run, slobberknocker of a game.
I hope they combine continuous space,multiplayer away team missions on planets and ships. The ability to beam over to your enemies ship via a downed shield and personally punk slap him in his captains chair would be nice too

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

If it's a Star Trek game, missiles have got to be left out. 

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

[Bonk]

Exactly my point, you have grasped it well.  You would certainly be disappointed with a proper computerised SFB just as I would be disappointed by another space shooter. (Though I do not make any connection between SFB and the TOS other than their place in time.. SFB is a game unto itself.. i.e. I Don't believe Larry Niven's Kzin were in the TOS.. anyway, I thnk we've illustrated the point well here and this ground has been covered many, many times.)

Here's hoping you get the Trek game you want and I get the SFB game I want! (No reason both can't exist - except for the evils of money and corporate greed... oops, thats another rant... )

[Rota]

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

Did you see that in a TOS episode? Will it sell enough games to make a profit after all the costs associated with putting the game out? If that were to be a small part of the game, in a selectable era, it might work. But if the entire game is based on a board game it probably won't ever see a store shelf Atleast not in this current market where the competition sells alot more action and options.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

Did you see that in a TOS episode? Will it sell enough games to make a profit after all the costs associated with putting the game out? If that were to be a small part of the game, in a selectable era, it might work. But if the entire game is based on a board game it probably won't ever see a store shelf At least not in this current market where the competition sells alot more action and options.

Balance of Terror....


Yes to have them available tho would be good..outdated weapon to be sure but it would make for an interesting campaign.

[Rota]

Balance of Terror....

I don't remember seeing the Enterprise launching them. I was pretty young at the time though

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Balance of Terror....

I don't remember seeing the Enterprise launching them. I was pretty young at the time though

It did not but they talked about the first war that was fought with missles

[Rota]

Well if it didn't fire them on the show it shouldn't fire them in the game lol. I guess it just boils down to whether you want to play a video game based on a board game, or a video game based on Star Trek.
I think that there is something lost if you try and combine the two. If you have a Constitution class firing missiles you are kinda corrupting the space/time line deal.And that would make the time police very angry rofl. Seriously though, the majority of game buyers would likely opt for a Star Trek game over a SFB game and the developers need to know they will get paid imho.

[Tulwar]

Yes, we do need a new SFC.  I whole-heartedly agree with just about everyone who has posted here, but must respectfully disagree with ROTA.  SFC is SFB for the computer.  Those who were attracted to SFC because it is SFB can only see SFC3 as a poorly executed abomination.  The single player campaigns had some merit, but I couldn't go too far before my computer crashed.

There were a lot of material, such as Klingon PFs that was not included in OP.  G-racks and plas-D did not work the way they should, and the AI was too stupid to fight against a missile onslaught.  These failures are minuscule compared to the achievement of making a functional real-time SFB type computer game, but we were hoping for an improvement.  I do not fault the developers for not being perfect.  A new game would correct these failures.

The other need in a new game is a Dynaverse with an element of high strategy.  People have already written eloquently on this subject, so I will add no more.

BTW --- Larry Niven wrote an episode for the ST cartoon in the '70s base on his story, "The Soft Weapon."  That is where the Kzin come from.  The cartoon is not considered cannon by Paramount.  Some jerk wrote a porno story based on the Kzin, and so offended Niven that he will no longer license anything with that proud race outside the "Tales of Known Space."

[SkyFlyer]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

I think youre talking about SFC3... wait... SFC3 isnt reliable... hmmm what could he be talking about?

[Rota]

SFC is SFB for the computer

We can agree to disagree then
When most people see the words StarFleet Command, they immediately think of Star Trek.
While the first 3 games were based on sfb, todays games need far more than turn based moves. The next game will need 3d open space and battles also fought on planets to compete with the dimensions found in other games.If they can market an sfb game and make money then kudos to them.

[SkyFlyer]

they need a mix of SFC2 : OP and Freelancer, but much, much more multiplayer depth than FreeLancer.

[J. Carney]

Well if it didn't fire them on the show it shouldn't fire them in the game lol. I guess it just boils down to whether you want to play a video game based on a board game, or a video game based on Star Trek.
I think that there is something lost if you try and combine the two. If you have a Constitution class firing missiles you are kinda corrupting the space/time line deal.And that would make the time police very angry rofl. Seriously though, the majority of game buyers would likely opt for a Star Trek game over a SFB game and the developers need to know they will get paid imho.

Rota:

The original plans for the Klingon D7 included missles and phasers, they were just never fired on TV.

The Romulan seeking plasma is canon from Balance of Terror- can we have it back now?

The missiles are canon for Ferengi, and yet you are notgoing to let us have them?


All I can hear in what you are saying is 'I want a trek game where everyone has the same weapons- MAGIC PHOTONS!!!' There is no fun in that.

SFC's variaty is what makes it popular, not having that variaty hurts- like SFC3 showed.

And PS, if you want to make it canon, realize that you can't pick and chose what is in it. No trrowing out missiles because you don'tlike them- they are canon, too! You'd have about 4 classes for everyone but the Feds and a dozen for them and that would be it.

There's just not enough canon material for a game like SFC.

[EmeraldEdge]

And they mentioned Cardassians using drones in Voyager, as well I believe.

[FPF-DieHard]

Why do we continue the illusion that we are one community?

[Rod ONeal]

SFC is SFB for the computer

We can agree to disagree then
When most people see the words StarFleet Command, they immediately think of Star Trek.
While the first 3 games were based on sfb, todays games need far more than turn based moves. The next game will need 3d open space and battles also fought on planets to compete with the dimensions found in other games.If they can market an sfb game and make money then kudos to them.

Well, here's my $.02 on the demise(sic) of SFC. The first game sold the best. I believe that it was because of it's roots in SFB. I think that each version sold less because they continued to disappoint the SFB crowd. Adding more attrition units, the Kzinti and the ISC to EAW was a good idea. I think that if they had also added/fixed some more SFB elements and had better more in depth campaigns that it would have sold better than SFC1. I believe that if they had "fixed" the cloak, did a better job on attrition units (they were improved, but not enough), fixed the G and D racks and other weapon deficiencies, and possibly added EW lending, it would have been enough to attract, rather than lose, more players. Between disappointed "hardcore" (trust me, none of us here are truly hardcore SFBers) SFB players and the "it's too hard to play" crowd leaving, EAW didn't sell as well. I believe that the 2nd crowd were most of the defectors from EAW though.

Orion Pirates added the pirates, of course. They weren't done very well though. I'm not talking about option MTS. here. Having multiple variants works fine. They should have had a group of quality SFB Orion players do the ships though, IMO. The Orions need better implemented engine doubling, their stealth bonus (the stealth bonus is in the shiplist, but it isn't in the game), and more accurate weapons layouts. The way that they are implemented into D2 isn't popular, although I don't fault Taldren for the way that they did it. It just didn't work out well for pirate players who want to conquer the galaxy. Add the pirate layer interaction (which is what kept EAW more popular for a long time) and that equals more lost players. Both from the SFB camp, and the non SFB players.

SFC3 is more of a completely different game, not a continuation of the series. A lot of the SFC players just don't like it. At first we didn't even have a weapons chart to go by. It was fly around, get on your opponents 12 or 6, and blast away (Oh, and watch out for the guy in the bigger ship trying to run your @ss over. That was the worst feature that I'd ever seen.). Some of the other elements introduce some other strategies, but not enough. Add to that the fact that it was a rush job, that leaves it feeling very incomplete, and the developer/producer interaction, and it's no wonder that it didn't do really well.

All of this is 20/20 hind sight though, and possibly even with blinders on. I just feel that is SFC had gone more in the SFB direction than it did, even with EAW, that it would have grown in popularity. As it was it had too many "house rules". While I think that many would have been willing to deal with them as an interim situation, adding more "house rules" didn't help it out.

[Rod ONeal]

Well if it didn't fire them on the show it shouldn't fire them in the game lol.

The unrefitted Connie doesn't have missiles in SFB either. They were added because they were needed to compete with the Klingons. You know, for a while they tried to remove machine guns from fighters because they were considered obsolete in the era of missiles. They were put back on though. Just as missiles (drones) could have made a comeback in Trek with better missile tech and the tactical need.

I guess it just boils down to whether you want to play a video game based on a board game, or a video game based on Star Trek.

I want to play a video game based on Trek that is balanced and diverse. IMO, that's exactly what SFB is. While all of this tech was being developed in SFB there was no Trek, except for reruns of TOS.

I think that there is something lost if you try and combine the two. If you have a Constitution class firing missiles you are kinda corrupting the space/time line deal.And that would make the time police very angry rofl. Seriously though, the majority of game buyers would likely opt for a Star Trek game over a SFB game and the developers need to know they will get paid imho.

When TMP came along they were wanting to continue the canon timeline and adapt it to their game. Paramount wouldn't allow it though. Thus the diversity. The lack of current canon in SFB is due to that. If they had allowed ADB to do that then we wouldn't have this problem in the first place. I agree with you that the two might not be able to be combined now. Canon changes so much that you'd have to design a new game for every movie and every series, unfortunately.
Of the two "timelines" SFBs is much more consistent and makes for a better balanced game. The gameplay in SFB hasn't even been scratched yet. There's rules for boarding party combat that could be adapted to an FPS, and a GURPS RPG game based on SFB. Then there's Federation and Empire for an Empirical strategy level game. A game engine that could handle all four levels of play would be awesome. Awesome, and complex as a Mofo to design.

[EmeraldEdge]

I love all the "That's not Trek" people but then they love games like EF and Armada and whatnot that have all sorts of stuff that's not Trek and limitations and you name it.   Stuff gets made up for games all the time, but if you are making a game system at least make it diverse.   SFC3 had like 2 weapons just with different names and stuff, it got boring REALLY fast.   No diversity in the way you use the weapons at all.   There are plenty of options out there too, you just have to use them. 

[J. Carney]

Why do we continue the illusion that we are one community?

Because we all want a good Trek game, and we will all play a good Trek game, even if it is not exactly what we want...

but that won't stop us from pestering the powers that be for what we want!

[TotensBurntCorpse]

Yes we need another star fleet command game.

HOWEVER,

It needs to be build up from the strengths of how OP and SFC3 work, and the best elements of the D2/D3 space combat need to be incorporated.

I dont really care if one game over the other is preferred but I have played both for some time now and freely admit that there are some elements in both games that would be complimentary.

BUT THE MAIN item for me would be far more connectivity for multi player combat in missions, such as how BF1942 holds more ppl or MMOG systems work with line of site connectivity.  IF you fly a certain distance away you "leave" the mission.

To me either game is pretty functional, what doesnt seem to fit most peoples palattes is what a dynaverse should be able to do.

[I, Mudd]

Why do we continue the illusion that we are one community?

Truer words have not been said about this group of forums. The doorstep to the temple of wisdom is a knowledge of our own ignorance. Either we accept and embrace the differences, or we split up and go our separate ways. Anything else is a waste of bandwidth.

At least with the differences, there will always be something to argue about/discuss ...

Count me in with the SFB-ers/F&E-ers. 30+ years of development; tried and true.

I, Mudd.

[kv1at3485]

Why do we continue the illusion that we are one community?

Agreed.

You cannot have an SFB near-clone while having an attempted Star Trek clone and vice versa.  It would be impossible to achieve a fusion that would satisfy everyone, or at least those who are want to be strongly opinionated.

I can say that my vision of some grand space strategy game deviates from F&E.  The economic system alone I would favour would be nothing at all like the one used by the board game.  The method of starship construction and the elements required?  Different.  And the list goes on and on.

With SFC we have had the chance to form our list of 'likes' and 'dislikes', what we'd like to see in future games, and what we'd rather have left out.  Now that we have our preferences for the post-SFC products, we can work to see if we can get them.

Let us hope that if there is another 'SFC' (whatever that means) there are at least two of them, and not one.

[Rota]

The original plans for the Klingon D7 included missles and phasers, they were just never fired on TV.

The Romulan seeking plasma is canon from Balance of Terror- can we have it back now?

The missiles are canon for Ferengi, and yet you are notgoing to let us have them?

If you want an early era added to the game that reflects that, cool.
Sure, give the Roms their seeking plasma from the balance of terror area, and remove it from the later era that followed that episode.

I still have never seen a Ferengi ship fire a missile on the show. They were far more advanced than that in the TNG era.

[KBF-Crim]

Should I be able to shoot a single photon torperdo to within a couple klicks of two cruisers, shoot the photon with my phasers...and cripple both enemy ships?....cuz I DID see that on a show...

And can I have a place to put in a code to drop your shields?.....cuz I seed dat in a moovy two

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

I think youre talking about SFC3... wait... SFC3 isnt reliable... hmmm what could he be talking about?

No Flyer, there was something in the works -- a game like SFC4 almost complete. It is in the can somewhere.

I want to know if it can be revived. Who has it? Where is it? Can we ( the community) fix it or complete it?

Who knows this answer?

<S>

WaterTiger

[J. Carney]

The original plans for the Klingon D7 included missles and phasers, they were just never fired on TV.

The Romulan seeking plasma is canon from Balance of Terror- can we have it back now?

The missiles are canon for Ferengi, and yet you are notgoing to let us have them?

If you want an early era added to the game that reflects that, cool.
Sure, give the Roms their seeking plasma from the balance of terror area, and remove it from the later era that followed that episode.

I still have never seen a Ferengi ship fire a missile on the show. They were far more advanced than that in the TNG era.

IT was in the episode where the Enterprise and the Ferengi Marauder both sent shuttles through a workhole. Geordi was on the Fed shuttle.

[EmeraldEdge]

They were far more advanced than that in the TNG era.

Wouldn't you say that we are now far more advanced than we were in say WWI or the Civil War?   Yet, we still use bullets, don't we.   Those bullets are hardly the same as the ones used back in those days, but the bullet is still used.   Missiles have evolved over time as well, just as every weapon system does.  The guns from the civil war are completely obsolete, and would be next to useless in modern warfare, are we to believe that in the Trek universe, they invent a weapon and never advance it?   We know this isn't true, because they do it repeatedly during the course of single episodes, so to say that missiles are old tech and they advanced beyond that isn't really a reasonable arguement, especially given that they talk about drone/missile tech in post-TMP Trek several times (and fighters )

[Harry]

I heard from a pretty reliable source that Taldren basically had one in the bag ... or close.

Anyone know where it went? Can it be finished?

<S>

WaterTiger

I think youre talking about SFC3... wait... SFC3 isnt reliable... hmmm what could he be talking about?

No Flyer, there was something in the works -- a game like SFC4 almost complete. It is in the can somewhere.

I want to know if it can be revived. Who has it? Where is it? Can we ( the community) fix it or complete it?

Who knows this answer?

<S>

WaterTiger

A game like SFC4 almost complete?  Not to my knowledge.

[airBiscuit]

Hmmmmmm,The First Earth Romulan war was fought with missles...Cannon from TOS

Did you see that in a TOS episode? Will it sell enough games to make a profit after all the costs associated with putting the game out? If that were to be a small part of the game, in a selectable era, it might work. But if the entire game is based on a board game it probably won't ever see a store shelf Atleast not in this current market where the competition sells alot more action and options.

SFC *was* based on a board game.  It simply extrapolated a turn based system into a fluid realtime system.  The key to SFC's success was that it tapped into a well-established set of ship types, weapons, and races, all brought to life by a deeply involving, time-tested game that has been upheld and studied and extrapolated on by countless fans for nearly three decades.  Sometimes it pays to stand on the shoulders of giants, instead of trying to be one yourself.  Familiarity breeds affinity.

Star Trek interactive games need to really think about how they set themselves up against the competition.  They are practically in a genre all their own, with a deep history propped up and perpetuated by fans for nearly four decades.  It's not Star Wars.  It's not The Matrix.  It's not Chronicles of Riddick or Doom 3.  Trying to turn Star Trek into an action game invariably causes it to fall flat on its face in the final analysis.  It's not what we like Star Trek for.  Star Trek has been successful when it has managed to satisfy our expectations on what we feel the Star Trek universe to be.  The successful and appreciated espisodes are the ones that satisfy what we have already learned, but also supplant our understanding with a new twist; something that takes our Trek universe and expands it in new directions.  The fans take over and extrapolate and explore all kinds of possibilities from the plot twists, and this process repeats itself.

Games like SFB represent just such fan extrapolation.  It's taking what we understand and then adding deeper derivatives, elements behind the scenes, that potentially make the universe even more interesting and also help to explain concepts that are otherwise glossed over.  These features allow us to explore and participate in the Star Trek universe on a deeper intellectual level than a television series can hope to cover, and yet it's that interest that perpetuates and uplifts the television series because it *involves* the fan base in that universe.  They are now a part of that universe.

I think that is why fans express themselves loudly when they find the latest Star Trek television installments tromping all over what they have come to understand.  They are also greatly disappointed when a Star Trek game title lacks depth, production values, or doesn't contain the elements that feel like a Star Trek experience.  Trying to make a Trek game feel like Age of Empires or Wing Commander means it will feel just like that, not it's own unique experience.  We have had 30 or so years of Star Trek marketing that can tell us a great deal about what has worked well with the consumer fan base and what has not.  It's a voice that the licensors and licensees should be listening to and following up on.  I would posit that it's not eye-candy that makes a successful Star Trek game, otherwise we wouldn't even be talking about SFB right now.  It's a rich, developed universe played out in such a way that is exciting and intellectually satisfying.  It's space drama at its best, backed up by a wealth of speculative science.  It's our hope for the future of humanity writ large.

[Hyperion]

i think we do.

although the SFc community is somewaht fractured these days it would have some immediate name recognition as oppoosed to a new game venue. Now personally i have to say that if it was a sequel or a redo of the SFC3 game i would not but it (as i havent bought SFC3). The trick is create something that would appeal to eveyone tought that as it may be.

I rather liked the depth of the SFC - SFC2:OP line and feel that they leeched a great deal of the complexity of the games to come up with SFC3. I refuse to engage in the SFB vs SFC war that still seems to be going on here. SFB is not SFC, however SFB was the basis of the original three games and were very succesful. SFC3 was a bold experiment and a risky tie in with Star Trek Nemisis which if it had been succesful we may have very wellhad Taldren still in business. Yet the sad facts are that Nemsis did extremely poorly at the theatre and the hoped for connection between the movie and SFC3 did not come to pass. I want a big fan of the whole idea when i first heard about it and figured things for myself, it seemed a bit of a crap shoot to take a succesful series of games and alter it drastically simply to coincide with a feature film. But the tall foreheads at Taldren/Activision did it and now we have to live with it.

Harry Lang has mentioned in another thread that Paramount intends to take back the rights to all the games and begin to produce a line of games through a single developer or perhaps just a very few. I personally think thats a good idea but at this point i believe the press release is just hype as no facts about any of the publishers or games has ben released or even ready for release.

If they do i think they should run with the systems that have come from the first three games. They by this point work very well and are tried and true. And although this maybe something risky to say i believe that the SFC1 to SFC2:op would appeal to all the people here even though those who enjoy SFC3 probably may not fall in love with them they would likey still enjoy the games even though the SFC3 sysytem was not picked to proceed with the project. Of the posts that i have read here, very few people have said that they "Hated" SFC1-SFC2:OP just they thought SFC3 was superior. diferences of opinion aside i thin Paramount and whoever ends up being their developer would see the financial reasons at least to appealing to the broadest base possible of Star Trek gaming fans for a new SFC game

[Tulwar]

I'm pretty sure that SFC OP was made from the material material they were working up for SFC GAW.  When Activision moved in on the SFC franchise, Taldren hurried up and released what they could finish as OP.  I've heard there are things such as TR beams buried in the OP code.  Taldren had done very little on GAW before Activision started calling the shots.