Topic: History for those interested Artic Fire (long)

[Gambler]

AFter going to bed last night I came up with an additional cross we ISC had to bear.  Because we had no official allies on the server, it was a crapshoot who we would end up with as wingmen on any given mission.

I don't know how many missions I got in Fed space where I was fighting a Feddie and had a Fed AI wingman.  This led to the unfortunate fact that if I won the mission but my wingman survived, the defense value of the hex would go UP, not down.   We ISC became quite adept at getting our AI wingmen killed before the end of the mission.

[Durin]

I remember that one too Gambler.It truely was a pain to you guys.At the time I was glad..we were  soooo pissed you guys kept  coming right at us. 

[Capt_Bearslayer_XC]

This was my very first Dyna-Verse server.  The whole 'rotting fur'  incident is what clued me in on that.

I remember being very quiet on RW, just trying to figure out what was going on and how I could help.

I was such a n00b back then...

But I guess I liked it b/c I am still here.

[Commander Maxillius]

so why hasn't there been an attempt to start an Arcticfires-type server right where the DB died, so that all of the cutthroat trickery and hard work can come to fruition?

I wanna know who wins, dammit!!!

[Gook]

so why hasn't there been an attempt to start an Arcticfires-type server right where the DB died, so that all of the cutthroat trickery and hard work can come to fruition?

I wanna know who wins, dammit!!!

Not enough people for that type of server and that big a map anymore 

We need more Peeps 

[Corbomite]

Problems and all it was still the most fun I ever had on a server. The newness of it all and the complexity of the battle plans made it truly memorable. Gigantic map, 100 people (eventually dropped down to 80 to help with crashing) and literally hundreds waiting to get in made it seem like it could actually be a persistant universe that might last a year or more. Alas it was not to be.

[Lepton]

What's quite amazing to me is that the entirety of Artic Fire could have been done on GSA with a simple web interface map and an SQL database, but because you all were stuck on the D2, you had people waiting that could have been playing and a corrupted DB.  Had you all not had the D2 you'd have been forced to come up with creative solutions to the campaign problem, but since it was there, that's what you all have concentrated on for 4 years now or however long it has been.  And what have you got: some custom missions, some new rules, and the same old problems.

Perhaps the only redeeming feature is the fun you all had which merely would have been in a different context had you all come up with your system for doing campaigns and you'd be singing songs of the old days about that instead of this.  Six of one, half-dozen of another.  The things that made it special were you all being there.  The format is nothing special.

[Gambler]

I played GSA a few times, and D2 quite a lot.  The difference for me was the fact that I could spend two hours sitting on GSA and maybe get one or two games played.  During the same two hours on a D2 server I could play four or eight or ten missions depending on what went down.  Sure I could have done the same thing just stand alone on my own PC, but that wouldn't have had the same emotional feedback that came from donig something for the greater good.

You also have to put yourself into the mindset four years ago when AF was first put forth.  Until that time there hadn't reallly been anything with different racial alliances.  We were used to servers where DV's were low, maps were small and a player could log off with a large territory and 24 hours later have their entire home space completely overrun by another race.  It took all the fun out of the D2.  AF was aimed specifically at counteracting that.  A small band of dedicated players couldn't completely wipe out another race so quickly.

Some people are better AI warriors.  Some people love PvP.  Me, I like cooperative play vs AI and maybe a few opponents.  D2 lets people who like both styles of play get together with a common goal.

I don't care how much time you play on GSA nothing can match the pure adrenaline rush when you realize that you've drafted another player and are waiting for the mission to load.  Who will it be.  What will they be flying.  Who will be the wingmen.  Will they be AI or real?  Will it be a balanced mission or will you be outnumberd?

[IndyShark]

I played on AF and it was a lot of fun. Heck, it became an obsession. I wish we had more campaigns like that one.

[Lepton]

don't care how much time you play on GSA nothing can match the pure adrenaline rush when you realize that you've drafted another player and are waiting for the mission to load.  Who will it be.  What will they be flying.  Who will be the wingmen.  Will they be AI or real?  Will it be a balanced mission or will you be outnumberd?

That is what makes D2 inferior to my mind.  There is an inherent lack of fairness and equality in the D2, be it in terms of server numbers or mission match-ups.

The problem with most people's GSA experiences is that associated with league play where everyone is sitting there figuring out if they can beat someone else or some other group of people, bickering about terms, etc, etc,  However, if you had a hundred or more folks on at once who were actively working on a campaign map, you'd have none of those "manuevering" delays because people want to move the map and campaign forward as opposed to be being concerned about pride or saving face.

I understand the conditions at the time of AF from what I have heard here and from what I have seen I would have dropped the D2 like a hot brick.  Things have certainly gotten better but it is an inherently flawed system.

[Mu]

That was a great server, and really showed the potential of what SFC2 could be to a large community.  Like Neverwinter Nights, it also showed how the retarded limitations of the software kit would not allow it to actually happen.

AF was my first real Dyna server, after logging onto IPlay for several minutes and seeing the effects of the Blue Plague there, yawning, and leaving.  On AF there was also sort of a Blue Plague, but it afflicted me and the other Feds who were trying to pay attention to the strategic overview.  We were surrounded by nincompoops who would constantly draft us in meaningless fight the pirates missions, or get into bidding wars on ships we really really needed, or just lose a lot, or... well, you know.  There was still a lot of resentment over the one-sidedness of the IPlay servers, and so when the map is really big with the blue right in the middle, that's where everyone went.  The only ally we had was Valas... I mean the Gorn... I mean Valas, the only Gorn player.

It was also the site of my first ever PvP match, vs. Brez and his cheese-o fleet of 3 DF+'s that had been wrecking everyone with tractors and slow drone waves.  I remember that fight really well, since I really didn't know what I was doing and was uber cautious.  Me in an NCL, I basically just jerked around at range 50 firing proximity torps for a while, chatting, until I figured he was really annoyed, then charging overloads and a repel tractor, swooping in, dumping at range 2, destroying one ship and wounding another with no damage.  I then went back to range 50 and thought of how I could get him to fall for it again, and he got annoyed and left. 

It was also where I met a lot of reasonably good pilots, including Dizzy (in the coops that led to the Decoy Frigate tactic), Chay Maeryn (with whom I disagreed virulently about the use of the phaser as a primary, but he made it work somehow), Kruk (castling master), etc. etc. etc.  It was also where I figured out that not everyone thought like me, when in coop missions I would say, "OK I'm going for a sacrifice pass and get my ship damaged to drop his 1 and 2 shields and lock his vector down, follow on my 6 and exploit it so I can run and repair," then swoop in with overloads and do what I said, then see a couple of hopeless proximities fly in from range 30 where my ally was sitting far, far behind, hanging me out to dry.  (This sort of sacrifice play never really worked until I teamed with John Vaughn, who just couldn't help tractorslugging in the NCC, which is just what I wanted.)

It was a great server, full of open possibilities and the ability to define your own objectives, but in turn that bred the anathematic phenomenon of gaming politics.  I tried to stay out of it, then made some strategic posts (some of which were quoted in the intercepts ) and all of a sudden I was a commander.  I really didn't care about command and just wanted to pursue the oddball strategic opportunities I saw and learn to be an excellent pilot, so my basic instructions to my ersatz brigade were, "Go here, do this, I don't care how.  Oh and fly better."  I still like this style of leadership, and tried to use it again when I got shoehorned into CW3 Fed RM.  Well, on anyone who was listening.

It was great while it lasted.

[Capt Jeff]

Hey MU, glad you could stop by and give some insight   
Too bad AF didn't have the Database cleaner we have now....we could of finished that thing and who knows how that would of affected the entire history of D2....


About the "tunnels"....remember, most settings were stock.  I think hexes were 10,15,20 and 30 for planets.   Hex DV changes were 5 DV a mission, so it didn't take much to munch a hex.  Also, hexhealth reset ratio was set to 100% so once you took a hex, it was yours at full strength.  No need to "bump up" a hex.   

[Max Power]

What Mu didn't mention is how he ususally ends up in leadership positions:

Player Base: "Crap, player X, where is he? He didn't send out instructions like he was supposed to. Now what are we supposed to do?"
Mu: "Uh, I dunno. Flop and twitch?"
Player Base: "That's a great idea! Let's put him in charge!"

[Gook]

Hell, Mu Hi.

This whole AF thing started because someone found the Ranter page

Good to hear from you, so when you taking over the Feds

Log on and have a game if you can find all the bits required now

[FPF-DieHard]

"OK I'm going for a sacrifice pass and get my ship damaged to drop his 1 and 2 shields and lock his vector down, follow on my 6 and exploit it so I can run and repair,"

Hmmm, sounds like me yelling at my wingman

Mu!!!  It is great to see you back.   Check out GW 3 when it goes live later on this summer, I think you'll like it.

[Gambler]

That is what makes D2 inferior to my mind.  There is an inherent lack of fairness and equality in the D2, be it in terms of server numbers or mission match-ups.

I see, so what makes things fun for you is total balance.  In my opinion, it makes a better captain when you can win when the odds are against you.  A worse captain when you lose when they are stacked in your favor.

[FPF-DieHard]

That is what makes D2 inferior to my mind.  There is an inherent lack of fairness and equality in the D2, be it in terms of server numbers or mission match-ups.

I see, so what makes things fun for you is total balance.  In my opinion, it makes a better captain when you can win when the odds are against you.  A worse captain when you lose when they are stacked in your favor.

I has nothing to do with being a captain Gambler, rarely do the numbers matter on the tactical level unless you are by yourself.  Heck, modern D2 rules even allow the out-numbered to defend their space against a large force if they are good captains.

Numbers affect the strategic aspect of D2 which has little to do with how good of a "captain" you are.

Hell, I never cared if I win or loose as long as it isn't a complete blowout or I am totally out-cheesed in PvP.  Loosing SS2 was a hell of a lot more fun than winning SG3.

[SSCF-LeRoy]

This whole AF thing started because someone found the Ranter page

*AHEM* <raises hand>

Lot's o' good stuff in yer website their there, Mu. I especially like the "Dumb Fed Tricks" page

[KBF-Crim]

This whole AF thing started because someone found the Ranter page

*AHEM* <raises hand>

Lot's o' good stuff in yer website their there, Mu. I especially like the "Dumb Fed Tricks" page

Muwhahahaha!...me too...

Had it bookmarked for ages....

So now some of you know....I CANT read minds...But I can READ....

<snicker>

[[RK] Castrin]

don't care how much time you play on GSA nothing can match the pure adrenaline rush when you realize that you've drafted another player and are waiting for the mission to load.  Who will it be.  What will they be flying.  Who will be the wingmen.  Will they be AI or real?  Will it be a balanced mission or will you be outnumbered?

That is what makes D2 inferior to my mind.  There is an inherent lack of fairness and equality in the D2, be it in terms of server numbers or mission match-ups.

When has war ever been fair?

I'm sorry but to my memory the greatest battles have always been those that one side or the other have been missmatched. Only by heroic effort (or just dumb luck) did the smaller force win, usually it was the case that the side with the larger, better, equipment/ships/etc won.

I don't see how making sure that all battles are by equal units truly replicates the fog of war or the fact that war is inherently unbalanced. Maybe I'm missing something.