Topic: Paramount hath spoken

[KBF-Crim]

I would Agree...single internals would just make for too short a game with no chance of recovery in a pitched battle...

Just like double shields made for TOO long a game with little chance of beating an experienced player outright...

The biggest sticker IMHO was too many spares for repairs...which has been pretty much taken care of...

[GDA-S'Cipio]

(closes eyes and prays and waits for Scipio reply: "Nah, you Gorns are just inernals hogs.  SFB had it right.")

Hey!  I am Gorn!

I know the designers decided single internals and shields made the game go "too fast"; I just happen to think they were wrong.    After the hue and cry over doube internals and double shields, it was learned that shields could be made singe-strenght with a simple shiplist edit.  Single internals, however, require some real code work.  So we got the shields.

I still think that double internals cause more game-balance problems with heavy-crunch weapons than it solves in regards to gameplay.  I've also played with shiplists that come as close as they can to single internals, and find them fun.

I'd love to be able to fly a campaign with single internals and find out if I'm right.

-S'Cipio

[Age]

But the one idea I would like to see nailed down is why SFC2 didn't do as well as SFC1.  I am simply not persuaded that people did not buy SFC2 because they found SFC1 concept too complex and unplayable.

There is a general rule that sequels don't do as well as originals.  However, I think this is usually the fault of the sequel simply trying to be a "redo" of an idea that's already been done without adding enough to be a truly fresh product.  If you've already got the original, why do you need the copy?

SFC2 seemed prepared to break this genral rule.  The D2 was a fantastic addition and made SFC2 a fresh and distinct product from SFC1.  The problem was....... it didn't work.

I bought SFC2 before it went on the store shelves -- I actually made the stock boy go in the back and open a crate to get it for me -- without reading any reviews.  But when I found that the D2 didn't work, the box sat on my shelf and gathered dust for several months.

Without the D2, SFC2 didn't really have anythng new to add to the game.  Two new races and some nifty new sparkly lights, but that's hardly enough to make it *new*, and I already knew from SFB that the two new races weren't really ones I wanted to spend that much time playing.  I'd already *done* single player campaigns.  I'd already done mplay.  I could still do both in the old game.  I could still get online with my old SFB friends and play with SFC1.  What was in this new box to get me excited?  This made SFC2 an expansion rather than a sequel, which is fine!, but expansions never sell as well as new product.

When the D2 got sorted out I came back to SFC2 and became a fanatic until the present.  However, I imagine many others didn't buy at first because the game didn't work as advertised.  Unlike me, they didn't buy a non-working copy and leave it on the shelf until it worked.  Their "purchase moment" passed and they simply never came back.

The same thing happened with OP.  Nothing new was added to the game except a few weapons and more racial slots.  These things were greatly appreciated by me, but they don't fundamentally expand the game.  The D2 was exactly the same as the old D2, except it had even more bugs and a pirate layer that *still* doesn't really work.  (Though it is infinitely better now than it was, for which I am grateful.)  This made OP and expansion rather than a sequel, which is fine!, but expansions will never sell as many copies as new games.

I still hope for SFC4.  (You know, someday.....).  However I hope it goes much further than simply adding Andros and Tholians.  It needs to increase the ability of the admin to control production ques in his dyna, edit his database, edit his D2 mission pack, affect economy and alliances through player actions, and add new funcionality like scouts, variable overlaoads, mix and match drones, and supply raids.  

Oh, yes, and single internals.  

The fact that it needs to remain faithful to SFB goes without saying!

But I'd still like to see actual figures for sales, excluding the copies of SFC1 that were given away for free with a purchase of SFC2.  Once working, SFC2 is a vastly better game than SFC1.

-S'Cipio

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future SFC games.This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game and they want to stick to the original as seen on TV and the movies.That why there are no drones in SFC3 they never used them.
    I think you will see SFC4 game made entirely different more like SFC3 though but yes more playable races and it won't be made by Taldren because they aren't around that could be the answer to as why Quicksilver won't release the source code.This I assume though.There will be a new Dynaverse for it as well.
    

[KBF-Crim]

Hmmm Rondo...there was an SFC2 demo...here's a link to Chris jones mod's for it...

The first mod is dated oct 2000...

http://sfc.strategy-gaming.com/chrisjonesmods/sfc2mod.shtml

Hey Crim we both been on this gig since nearly the beginning but I don't remember the demo being out.  But I may be having a "senior" moment.

HEHE

Well...I DO remember having to do a 70MB DL overnight on my crappy 56k....I pre-orderd SFC2 and got it the day of release...I deleted the demo when I installed SFC2...

I also remember that the very first game lobby for SFC2 AND the demo was.....*ta ta ta DAH*...on M-player...I still have my beta test disk...we tested multi play on M-pig because the DV didnt work (had to be totally rewritten)...

Peeps used to wonder were the hell we were at ....many of us had the "show when logged on" activated...but we had our own lobby....

I also remember being completely JACKED when I was accepted as a tester...

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Age...

Quicksilver...which source code won't they release? (keeping fingers crossed).

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

Hmmm Rondo...there was an SFC2 demo...here's a link to Chris jones mod's for it...

The first mod is dated oct 2000...

http://sfc.strategy-gaming.com/chrisjonesmods/sfc2mod.shtml

Hey Crim we both been on this gig since nearly the beginning but I don't remember the demo being out.  But I may be having a "senior" moment.

HEHE

Well...I DO remember having to do a 70MB DL overnight on my crappy 56k....I pre-orderd SFC2 and got it the day of release...I deleted the demo when I installed SFC2...

I also remember that the very first game lobby for SFC2 AND the demo was.....*ta ta ta DAH*...on M-player...I still have my beta test disk...we tested multi play on M-pig because the DV didnt work (had to be totally rewritten)...

Peeps used to wonder were the hell we were at ....many of us had the "show when logged on" activated...but we had our own lobby....

I also remember being completely JACKED when I was accepted as a tester...

hmmm...

Looks over at medicine cabinet, grabs some vitamin B12

(gulp) (gulp)  (gulp)

ehhh

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future ... games.

They told me that for 20 years.  But then look!  Along came SFC1!

This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game

Paramount had the entire say of what goes into a Trek-based computer game long before SFC1.  They said yes to SFB once, they can do so again.

<nudges Harry in a friendly manner>

I just hope it doesn't take another 20 years.

-S'Cipio

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

(closes eyes and prays and waits for Scipio reply: "Nah, you Gorns are just inernals hogs.  SFB had it right.")

Hey!  I am Gorn!

I know the designers decided single internals and shields made the game go "too fast"; I just happen to think they were wrong.    After the hue and cry over doube internals and double shields, it was learned that shields could be made singe-strenght with a simple shiplist edit.  Single internals, however, require some real code work.  So we got the shields.

I still think that double internals cause more game-balance problems with heavy-crunch weapons than it solves in regards to gameplay.  I've also played with shiplists that come as close as they can to single internals, and find them fun.

I'd love to be able to fly a campaign with single internals and find out if I'm right.

-S'Cipio

I knew there was something about you I liked.  

I have found you can add and subtract internals to a degree on the shiplist but they don't all add up.  The ship doesn't quite behave (damage wise) right.

Well who knows now that drone defense, ECM, plasma, and other stuff is working more like it is supposed to you might be right.

But how to test...

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future ... games.

They told me that for 20 years.  But then look!  Along came SFC1!

This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game

Paramount had the entire say of what goes into a Trek-based computer game long before SFC1.  They said yes to SFB once, they can do so again.

<nudges Harry in a friendly manner>

I just hope it doesn't take another 20 years.

-S'Cipio

Jeeze Scip you just scored two three pointers in a row...where dat karma button!!!!

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I remember downloading the demo, and it was totally bugged (heh, go figure ).   Seemed like there was some major bug with the Mirak or something (could have been something with drones, I don't quite remember).   Still I played it like a maniac for a while, just to look at some of the new UI additions.

[GE-Raven]

your right rondo, somthing did. its called being a star ship combat simulator which worked! bridge commander would have done quite well if it hadnt had so few ships and a few mulitplayer issues..

the interest all begins with it being a star trek game.

And if it hadn't "felt" like I was flying around an f-16 in space.  Hell I liked Klingon Academy more than BC... and that IS saying something.

The best trek game I have ever played (I have never played SFB in my life but I would love to now) is SFC 1 and 2.  I soon came to realize this was due to SFB, it was the corner stone.  I bought SFC1 because I got to play a trek game where I got to run the ship... the whole damn thing.  I loved it because the rules made for HOURS of fun play alone and online.  SFB is directly responsible for why I loved the game... Star Trek is why I wanted to play it.

GE-Raven

[KBF-Crim]

Posted by Age:

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future SFC games.

Then they better find another source of content....that is relatively balanced, full of rich detail, and been play tested for twenty years...or it will ...hmmm...BE...not much different than SFC3...

This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game and they want to stick to the original as seen on TV and the movies.

Well...the "official" reason we where givin was that ACTI didnt have rights for TOS...and the SFB content is based on TOS...

Taldren said they made the game that ACTI wanted.....ACTI said that they bought the game that Taldren made....

Chicken and egg if ya ask me...

I also suspect that the Taldren team was a little sick of SFB content by that point...seeing the amount of time it took to get things "almost" perfect...and the amount of grief it took from fans to get things "almost" perfect...

Taldren set the bar very high....and fans expected them to make it over...which IMHO...they did...but through commitment to finnishing the game...which they did...

That why there are no drones in SFC3 they never used them.

See above...

I think you will see SFC4 game made entirely different more like SFC3 though

Well..to be blunt...I'll keep playing Op then...

but yes more playable races

I agree..this is a MUST....whatever content the game is based on (no it doesnt have to be SFB...but it had better be "just as good" if not better....but that means a longer DEV time...to get everything in and balanced...and UN balanced game will die just as fast as a plain old crappy one...)

and it won't be made by Taldren because they aren't around

No...but Erik IS...and like he allways say's...

"The future is bright"

So one can never know exactly what the future will bring....but if its going to be doneby someone else....it shouldnt be called SFC4...that would imply that Taldren was in on the DEV...

that could be the answer to as why Quicksilver won't release the source code.This I assume though.

Well...dont assume anything....cuz we dont know anything yet...

There will be a new Dynaverse for it as well.

I would hope so...and I hope someone took good notes when we provided all those suggestions to Erik in what SFC fans wanted out of another SFC game...

Alot of peeps felt kinda cheated when the suggestions for the SFC3 "GAW" dynaverse where jacked into SFC3 "TNG" dynaverse...without the content to go with it...

If you could meld SFC3 functionality with SFC:OP content...and *cough* advertise it as well as Elite Force was pushed (at the end of EVERY Voyager episode).....you'd have a smash hit!

[Age]

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future ... games.

They told me that for 20 years.  But then look!  Along came SFC1!

This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game

Paramount had the entire say of what goes into a Trek-based computer game long before SFC1.  They said yes to SFB once, they can do so again.

<nudges Harry in a friendly manner>

I just hope it doesn't take another 20 years.

-S'Cipio

They won't let SFB be associated with Star Trek anymore sorry Scipio.They pulled the License from ADB sometime ago to use Star Trek.They could prevent them from using UFP,Klingons,Romulans and Gorn. These are known races in Star Trek universe.They will use a new developer and a publisher one they can count one as to the source code ? all of them.
    When you have a jewel in the Nile would you give it up not unless you want lots of money for it.
 
     I guess we will have stay tuned for the  future  of Star Trek gaming.

     Then agian Harry might get an eye strian by reading all of this.

[_Rondo_GE The OutLaw]

I hate to say this but I don't think you will see SFB in any future ... games.

They told me that for 20 years.  But then look!  Along came SFC1!

This why SFC3 is different than the rest as Viacom and Paramount have the  entire say on what goes into a game

Paramount had the entire say of what goes into a Trek-based computer game long before SFC1.  They said yes to SFB once, they can do so again.

<nudges Harry in a friendly manner>

I just hope it doesn't take another 20 years.

-S'Cipio

They won't let SFB be associated with Star Trek anymore sorry Scipio.They pulled the License from ADB sometime ago to use Star Trek.They could prevent them from using UFP,Klingons,Romulans and Gorn. These are known races in Star Trek universe.They will use a new developer and a publisher one they can count one as to the source code ? all of them.
    When you have a jewel in the Nile would you give it up not unless you want lots of money for it.
 
     I guess we will have stay tuned for the  future  of Star Trek gaming.

     Then agian Harry might get an eye strian by reading all of this.

Huuzzzahhhh!!!!

Then perhaps the logical next move is to ADB.  Change the FED,KLING etc etc before it is too late.

Seems like they are a deer caught in the headlights waiting to become road kill.  Eventually the charity extended to them will be removed unless they make the move first.

Once that is done a future developer could make the game modable to a point.  Lets say you could change race names with a push pf the button etc...all on the up and up. 

Models might be a problem but where does a Fed CC end and some other "Confederation" begin in terms of nacelles, saucer section etc.  Might as well make that modable too.

ahhhhh....

Time for a BEER!!!!!!!

[KBF-Crim]

Posted by Age:

[They won't let SFB be associated with Star Trek anymore sorry Scipio.

You understand...that's like saying..."They wont let ice cubes be associated with water anymore"

They pulled the License from ADB sometime ago to use Star Trek.

Hmmm...really?

Sheesh...dont tell these people

http://www.starfleetgames.com/

They got the words "Star trek" plastered all over the page....

They could prevent them from using UFP,Klingons,Romulans and Gorn.

Rule Number one.....IF they "could" do it...they "would" do it...and would have done so allready...

These are known races in Star Trek universe.

Really?...I'm shocked

They will use a new developer and a publisher one they can count one as to the source code ? all of them.

Huh?...sorry...you're breakin up a bit...

When you have a jewel in the Nile would you give it up not unless you want lots of money for it.

If I had the jewel of the nile...I'd NEVER give it up....I'd charge LOTS of money for people to see it though...
 

     I guess we will have stay tuned for the  future  of Star Trek gaming.

Right...but plaese stop telling us what that future WONT be...cuz you dont know anymore than any of us...

Then agian Harry might get an eye strian by reading all of this.

Possibly....but I really bet he's getting a sore neck from shaking his head.....LOL

[FPF-DieHard]

I'd love to be able to fly a campaign with single internals and find out if I'm right.

-S'Cipio

It is doable now.   I'd bet real money this can be done with a mission script (it happens on accident all the time )

[Mog]

your right rondo, somthing did. its called being a star ship combat simulator which worked! bridge commander would have done quite well if it hadnt had so few ships and a few mulitplayer issues..

the interest all begins with it being a star trek game.

Actually, trek had very little to do with it for me. I bought them because of SFB lol.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

your right rondo, somthing did. its called being a star ship combat simulator which worked! bridge commander would have done quite well if it hadnt had so few ships and a few mulitplayer issues..

the interest all begins with it being a star trek game.

Actually, trek had very little to do with it for me. I bought them because of SFB lol.

Yep same here.

[KBF-Crim]

Me three!...even though I had never played it...

[FPF-DieHard]

your right rondo, somthing did. its called being a star ship combat simulator which worked! bridge commander would have done quite well if it hadnt had so few ships and a few mulitplayer issues..

the interest all begins with it being a star trek game.

Actually, trek had very little to do with it for me. I bought them because of SFB lol.

Yep same here.

Me three but I am big on Trek and would not mind seeing a "good" cannon Trek game.

I think the ley to that is startships should not fly like fighterplanes.