Topic: Paramount hath spoken

[FPF-DieHard]

  Hear Hear .I like all the games on an even scale.I like SFC2OP as much as I like SFC3 .There in one thing though that SFC2OP and prior are mere exagerations of Star Trek.They aren't canon as SF3 is.

SFC3 is hardly canon itself so stop claming that it is.

What is not canon in it?

The ships for one thing.

Look at the TNG tech manual (yes, I am this much of a geek).   It clearly indicates the Galaxy class can fire 10 Photons forward and 10 Aft.

Can they do that in SFC3?

[EmeraldEdge]

I also don't recall where Picard went into a starbase every week and redesigned his whole ship.   "I want a smaller warp core this week, and let's move the forward photons to the back if you don't mind."   Just didn't happen.

Also, as far as canon goes, isn't it a phaser array on the dish on TV, so that the arc extends almost a full 360 (with the exception of straight behind), rather than the phaser banks that are represented in the SFC series?

[Age]

  I was referring to the weapons in general in SFC3. I never did see any drones used in Star Trek except one episode in TOS.This were Kirk told them to fire phasers at it and they were destroyed.The Klingons used disruptors instead of phasers and photons instead of disruptors as their heavy weapons.I never once seen them use drones.The same as the Romulans.

  If they used drones then they would be far better off against the Borg or Breen.There wasn't much mentioned about Star Trek after TOS was canceled so ADB had to exaggerate what weapons were used.It wasn't untill the TMP that we saw the weapons they used and going into  TNG.

  I was not referring to the weapons in exact term only in generality in SFC3.I like the aspects of SFC3 but I like the visual affects and sound of SFC2 EAW&OP eg.the ships making noise when hit.It would be nice if the Federation ships made this noise.I hope you understand where I am coming from now and Harry feel free to shead some light on this.

[EmeraldEdge]

Actually, I believe many have pointed out that the original schematics for the Klingon battle cruiser from TOS had missiles on it, that is where ADB got the missiles thing from they didn't just pull it out of thin air.  I also believe that the Feringi have fired missiles/drones off on screen, haven't they?   Plus there was mention of a very large missile thing that the Cardassians used, I believe.

I agree about the sound effects and visuals of the weapons.  That was one of my bigger beefs, you just don't feel like you are doing much when you fire in SFC3.  In the previous installments, you would let off a load and it sounded like you were unleashing a load on the guy, and his ship would light up, icons flashing and stuff.   Much more satisfying for a gamer, imo.

[Tulwar]

 Cannon vs. non-cannon:  This argument always cracks me up!  The ST cannon is so convoluted that the "cannon" itself isn't stable.  The other thing is that they are making movies and television shows, not designing battle fleets!  This argument is silly on its face.

The other thing is that adhering to a cannon is like swimming with a boat anchor.  To make a game out of the material from the big and small screens requires that you invent things the writers never dreamed of.  I've never been fond of owners of an idea telling me what I can and cannot do after I bought the product.

I did have a radical idea:  Could one make a game that would have a long shelf life?  That is a game that would still be sold for $19.95 four years after it is introduced?  Extending the return life would definitely offset production costs.  SFC OP has a problem that it is not available any more.  It is, and will be a classic.

ps.  I mentioned Harpoon in an early post.  I meant to point out the the board games are fairly similar, but the computer games couldn't be more different.

[Age]

Actually, I believe many have pointed out that the original schematics for the Klingon battle cruiser from TOS had missiles on it, that is where ADB got the missiles thing from they didn't just pull it out of thin air.  I also believe that the Feringi have fired missiles/drones off on screen, haven't they?   Plus there was mention of a very large missile thing that the Cardassians used, I believe.

I agree about the sound effects and visuals of the weapons.  That was one of my bigger beefs, you just don't feel like you are doing much when you fire in SFC3.  In the previous installments, you would let off a load and it sounded like you were unleashing a load on the guy, and his ship would light up, icons flashing and stuff.   Much more satisfying for a gamer, imo.

I believe that I heard it differntly on the Taldren boards about the K-D7 in which they said they just put some ideas out that it came with phasers,missiles and disruptors.This wasn't fact because no one knew what weapons were on a K-D7.This what someone said in the Taldren boards as I had a debate going on with someone.This someone was a SFB fan but didn't debate the ADB exaggerated it all up.That is why they can't use Star Trek on their boxes.

  The thread still might be in this forum somewhere.If you tell which episodes those were I have friend who has all of Star Trek on tape to TOS to Voyager

 PS I could not find the 2004 threads from this forum from Taldren's DB that is how my post count went up so high.I registered at Taldren2/14/04 and I made it to Commander with over 1100 posts. in that short time.

[Cleaven]

A cannon is not canon!

[GDA-S'Cipio]

I believe that I heard it differntly on the Taldren boards about the K-D7 in which they said they just put some ideas out that it came with phasers,missiles and disruptors.This wasn't fact because no one knew what weapons were on a K-D7.This what someone said in the Taldren boards as I had a debate going on with someone.This someone was a SFB fan but didn't debate the ADB exaggerated it all up.That is why they can't use Star Trek on their boxes.

I don't know what was and wasn't said to you in your thread, but Emeral Edge was right about the schematics.  The D7 was shown bristling with phasers, and carrying missiles.

Steve Cole looked at the schematics and wondered what to do with all those phasers, since they were never seen on the screen.  He finally decided that since the Klingons carried missiles then probably someone else did too.  He decided these phasers were lower power phasers of less use for long range sniping, but good at shooting down incoming missiles.  Thus the phaser 2 was born.

But who was using all these missiles against the Klingons?  The kzinti were in Trek, and he wanted another major race in his game, and no one knew what weapons the Kzinti used, and thus they became the missile boys at war with the Klinks.

The rest is history.  (You can read this development story in the designers notes for SFB.  The above isn't an exact quote, but it is close.)

-S'Cipio

[EmeraldEdge]

http://www.startrek.com/startrek/view/library/episodes/VOY/detail/68886.html

A cardassian designed missile, reprogrammed to head back to Cardassia and detonate, but of course it goes awry and they just happen (gotta love that coincidence) to find it in the Delta Quadrant heading for a populated planet.  If I have time I'll try and hunt down the episode where the Ferringi used missiles as well.  This one was easy, because I remembered the name.

[Age]

I believe that I heard it differntly on the Taldren boards about the K-D7 in which they said they just put some ideas out that it came with phasers,missiles and disruptors.This wasn't fact because no one knew what weapons were on a K-D7.This what someone said in the Taldren boards as I had a debate going on with someone.This someone was a SFB fan but didn't debate the ADB exaggerated it all up.That is why they can't use Star Trek on their boxes.

I don't know what was and wasn't said to you in your thread, but Emeral Edge was right about the schematics.  The D7 was shown bristling with phasers, and carrying missiles.

Steve Cole looked at the schematics and wondered what to do with all those phasers, since they were never seen on the screen.  He finally decided that since the Klingons carried missiles then probably someone else did too.  He decided these phasers were lower power phasers of less use for long range sniping, but good at shooting down incoming missiles.  Thus the phaser 2 was born.

But who was using all these missiles against the Klingons?  The kzinti were in Trek, and he wanted another major race in his game, and no one knew what weapons the Kzinti used, and thus they became the missile boys at war with the Klinks.

The rest is history.  (You can read this development story in the designers notes for SFB.  The above isn't an exact quote, but it is close.)

-S'Cipio

Yep that is just Starfleet Battles not Star Trek.

[kv1at3485]

Any 'refit' system should be limited to:

1) Loadout.

Stop over at a supply point, and refill your magazines of torpedoes or missiles.  One day you might decide to dump your Mk. III torps and pick up Mk. IV torps instead.  NO changing of the launcher itself, just the ammo.

This would be like the fighter resupply system in SFC.  You don't change the fighter bay, just what you carry in the fighter bay.

2) Vessel Swap

You may NOT change the systems on the ship.  You may only 'purchase' a predesigned vessel.  Or, you can refit ships SFC3 style, but the refitting ship is unavailable for an extensive number of turns.

[Victor1st]

Ahhhh....the old canon arguement.

Here's a simple idea...

Forget about canon for trek games.

If this is going to be a "brave new world" for trek gaming, the new folks buying trek games wouldnt be worried about canon.  It's the old time die hard trek gamers who worry about it.

[FVA_C_ Blade_ XC]

Ahhhh....the old canon arguement.

Here's a simple idea...

Forget about canon for trek games.

If this is going to be a "brave new world" for trek gaming, the new folks buying trek games wouldnt be worried about canon.  It's the old time die hard trek gamers who worry about it.

True,them and Paramount

[kv1at3485]

Ahhhh....the old canon arguement.

Here's a simple idea...

Forget about canon for trek games.

If this is going to be a "brave new world" for trek gaming, the new folks buying trek games wouldnt be worried about canon.  It's the old time die hard trek gamers who worry about it.

I think that as long as a Star Trek product remains reasonably canon (the definition of 'reasonably' being open to debate) then the grand majority of us will be satisfied.

[2step]

Ahhhh....the old canon arguement.

Here's a simple idea...

Forget about canon for trek games.

If this is going to be a "brave new world" for trek gaming, the new folks buying trek games wouldnt be worried about canon.  It's the old time die hard trek gamers who worry about it.

I think that as long as a Star Trek product remains reasonably canon (the definition of 'reasonably' being open to debate) then the grand majority of us will be satisfied.

Just found this thread and must agree with the formentioned statement. Being reletively new to SFC etc. and finding hope that my childhood dream of flying in a world of J.T.Kirk and all was about the best thing ( gamewise) yet that I have found.
Harry , I have enjoyed allmost all the games that have been produced to date.The chance to be a part of  Startrek is about the best thing I have found . The only way I could hope to be into "Trek" any deeper is a MMORPG that falls into "Earth&beyond" style , but yet has a "footsoldiers" perspective on it.
I eagerly await the next Trek game , and if it stinks , I will still wait for the eventual time that it is done right and gives most players what they are hopeing for .
I can only speak for myself here , but I do Hope Paramount will help their fans in getting the most bang for their buck , and in doing so , ensuring that Trek will live on for anouther 30+ years.

[SkyFlyer]

I say that if youre going to refit your ship, you have to stay in the stardock for a period of time. If that hex is attacked, you are dragged into the mission with your partially completed weapons... and you better hope for the best.

[IndyShark]

I say that if youre going to refit your ship, you have to stay in the stardock for a period of time. If that hex is attacked, you are dragged into the mission with your partially completed weapons... and you better hope for the best.

I don't agree. Even during WWII when we were in desperate need of ships, we didn't send damaged or untrained ships into combat. The ships where sent into combat when they were ready and with escorts.

I'd like to suggest that if the ship is being refitted that it is either not available if your hex is attacked or you get a "loaner". (I shudder to think what a "pool starship" would look like after driving some of the "pool cars" at work!)

Better still, there should be refit areas that are well behind the lines. Refits would not be possible along the border regions or the refits would be very minor. Major refits would require a larger shipyard.

[Tulwar]

This string has become silly.  People are discussing tweeking SFC (I, II, OP, and III) into some kind of hybrid when there is no intication that anybody any where wants anything to do with creating any kind of SFC game.

Harry was here to get an idea of what fans on this forum wanted in a game, so that he would know what kind of pitch to listen to from game developers, and maybe, just maybe let them know what we cared for.  After seeing this esoteric dribble, I would be surprised if he came back.

If this thread were to continue, the obvious question would be:  What did Harry get from his visit to this forum?

[NannerSlug]

you sure why harry was here tul? i wouldnt go putting words into his mouth.

and by the way, yes - there were examples of ships getting "refitted" or "thrown" into battle during just about every conflict. in ww2 just after pearl and before midway the lexington had severe battle damage from coral sea and was in dry dock. she was sent out to midway and had to make repairs during the trip.. there are other examples.. but that shouldnt be what this is about.

and sorry victor, but there are a lot of us who want TREK games - not just somthing with a trek label slapped on the side of it. does it have to be perfect? nope. sfc proved that. it was close, but not trek and it worked for a good time. bridge commander could have scored better as well.. they were soo close..

what is important is good game play which is based in a trek environment. at least that is what i believe.

[SkyFlyer]

Indy, I am saying if the starbase that the ship is being held in is under attack, the ship has no option but to go save the base. If he stays inside the base, and the base is destroyed, the ship is destroyed. The ship has to go out and defend the starbase, if he is in the base.