Topic: Braga: Next Trek film to deal with Romulan War

[J. Carney]

Yeah, I forgot they don't do the whole 7 year thing, but I still don't buy that they could evolve into the bumpy forhead guys in that short a time (especially if you take consider the time period TOS to TNG rather than Flight to TNG).   I take TOS Romulans as they way they are supposed to be, because they appeared that way in TMP movies as well (whereas they changed the Klingons, but I think they should have explained it as another species of Klingon in the empire rather than just blowing it off and not explaining).  So, somewhere from Kirk's time to TNG all romulans grew pronounced forhead ridges.

I agree with you on the Remus thing, but weren't the Remans supposedly mutated because they were mining something or other?  Like I said, I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't really know the full extent of it, but knowing B&B (or B in this case) I'm sure it wasn't well thought out.

I haven't seen the movie. I read the relevent info but have forgotten it... I'll look around and see if I can find it somewhere.

And I also agree that they should have done something to explain why all of the sudden the Klingons looked different in TMP. But Oh, well... unpredicatble change is the penalty we pay for loving Sci-Fi.

[Rat Boy]

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.

There is no statement from the movie to support that conclusion.  It's assumed that the Remans are just a conquered people.

I just hope if they do make a Romulan War Movie that they don't use Enterprise as a basis for it.  But I have a feeling B&B will probably do it anyways.   

They'd have to involve them, somehow, since it is established that Archer is deeply involved in the formation of the Federation that follows a short year after the war.

[J. Carney]

They'd have to involve them, somehow, since it is established that Archer is deeply involved in the formation of the Federation that follows a short year after the war.

They weren't too skippy on following established storylines- either the TOS one or the different TNG version- of either first contact or the foundingof the Federation.

Why get interested in continuity all the sudden?

[Davey-E]

See, Emerald Edge, here's something that they missed making Remus toxic-

Remus is a desert world.
Vulcan is a desert world.

Exactly, and boy did B&B screw up showing Remus as a dead world, just pure ignorance of REAL TREK

However, There would NEVER have been a War between Earth and Romulus WITHOUT warp drive, the Distances were simply too far, The old Adage that they fought with nuclear weps and no warp drive is STUPID, we must get rid of that idea

The Earth/Rom war started with attacks by the Roms on "Qualor" and "Draken" which the Earth Forces had planned on colonising, Leading to a Massive escalation in which the Vulcans and Andorians joined Earth

[Rat Boy]

Why get interested in continuity all the sudden?

My personal opinion: Berman had been planning for the entire series to lead up to and wage the Romulan War much as DS9 did with the Dominion War.  I'm guessing he did a lot of planning for it over time, and now that the writing is on the wall for ENT, he's trying to find a new way to bring that concept to light.  Personally, I think one whole war that spans several years is a bit much for the silver screen.  It'd work a lot better as a mini-series, ala Band of Brothers or the Dune minis on the Sci Fi Channel.

[Chris SI]

If B & B do it, the Romulans will controlled by dopey future boys giving them warp tech for the war.

[Rat Boy]

If B & B do it, the Romulans will controlled by dopey future boys giving them warp tech for the war.

But the problem is is that they need warp tech in order to even get out of their system, or else this'll be a boring war.  My personal theory is that although the Romulans have warp drive, they do not have a matter/antimatter reactor to power it.  Instead, they use fusion reactors and thus their power is "simple impulse."

[FPF-DieHard]

See, Emerald Edge, here's something that they missed making Remus toxic-

Remus is a desert world.
Vulcan is a desert world.

Exactly, and boy did B&B screw up showing Remus as a dead world, just pure ignorance of REAL TREK

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

[Davey-E]

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

Actually DH, I think it actually crashlanded on the Planet and BOOM, But True if they want to go that way,
wow
Now i know why the Rommies hate the Federation 

[Chris SI]

But the problem is is that they need warp tech in order to even get out of their system, or else this'll be a boring war.  My personal theory is that although the Romulans have warp drive, they do not have a matter/antimatter reactor to power it.  Instead, they use fusion reactors and thus their power is "simple impulse."

There is a way around this.

In a DS 9 episode, they showed Sisko recreating the ancient Bajoran ships that had star travel, via natuarlly occuring warp eddies near the denoris belt.

All you have to do is say such a thing also exists near Romulan space, and you can have two pre-warp races fight it out, the ships being designed to take advantage of this.

[J. Carney]

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

Die Hard... The Big Mac was gunned down by the Roms and crashed on Remus. It didn't self distruct- it just got it's a$$ blowed up.

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas. This is further proof (in the TOS/SFB timeline) that there were 'non-tactical' warp ships that had fusion or 'impulse' reactors powering a primative warp drive system like Chris SI suggests.

[Desty Nova]

Oh man....the Big Mac going down...that would be so cool to see on the screen.

Anyway, Roms were definitely capable of FTL travel in that era....the notion that they wouldn't be is ridiculuous and beyond the limits of credibility, I don't care what anyone says. But they had non-tactical warp, meaning they couldn't fight at warp speeds, which other races(in particular their mortal enemies, the Gorn) could. This disparity is largely what spurred the development of the cloaking device and the plasma torpedo. The Romulans needed something that would allow their basically immobile ships to survive battles with the maneuverably superior Gorns.
Why did tactical warp elude the Romulans for so long? Well, beats me. Module Y1 says something about the way the Rom govt. is structured, the political infighting has caused many technological breakthroughs to be delayed indefinitely. So it surprises me that the cloak or plasma torp could have ever been invented. Oh well, they got the tech from the Klingons, so it's all good I suppose. 

[Rat Boy]

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas.

There is no canon proof of that.

[DougC]

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas.

There is no canon proof of that.

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

[Rat Boy]

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

And SFB is not canon.  The map of the border that showed a second star system from "The Balance of Terror" called Romii is canon.

[FA Frey XC]

So how do you translate rommii to remus?

Does anyone here read the ST books?

Novels, you know - written text and all that?

[Hyperion]

I actually loved Nemesis.  I have no problem seeing the Romulans as making another race subservient to them...in fact with some of their attitudes, I would expect it.  Afterall, not everyone can be as great as a Romulan!

 

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.  I still have not seen the film yet so I haven't memorized it all, but supposedly they were turned into these vampire things by exposure to elements on Remus or something.  Just bad.  What's worse is the forhead ridges on the Romulans.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  Not only does it look stupid, but it takes away some of the cool thing about Romulans.  They could be anywhere in the Federation because they looked just like Vulcans (where they came from in the first place).  Given the time they have been away from Vulcan, it is also highly unlikely that they would have "evolved" a forhead ridge (let alone into some hideous Nosferatu like being) given the longer life cycle of Vulcans, and their long periods in between mating, they just wouldn't have that many generations in several hundred years to have evolved like that. 

I think some of the confusion comes from a book that was published years ago called the "Romulan Way" by Dianne Carey. It wasnt your usual sort of shoot'em up star trek book but and actual novel that laid out the Vulcan/Romulan history from when the race split into seperate nations (this is where the name Rhihannsu came from). It actually began thousand of years before Star Trek TOS back in Surak's  time and dealt with the Vulcans development of logic and how some of the clans refused to accept the idea on non-emotion (they felt it emasculated the race) However the Vulcans/Rhihanssu did understand that another war on Vulcan would destroy the planet for everyone. So they gathered up there clans and put them on the sleeper ships and headed out to what the thought would be a similar planet. And of course with sleeper ships something always goes wrong and one group of the vulcans/Rhihansuu ended up on Remus. Evenetually the Vulcans from Romulas hooked up with the Vulcans of Remus and understood what happened and set out to carve out thier own nation.

Anyways the book goes deeply into the history from that moment and explains why the Vulcans Never told the Federation about the genetic link, and how they got stuck the name Romulans (the Rhhansuu when they found out who the Romans were apparently were not impressed). The thing is that Nemisis basically trahsed all that.

Some of the highlights:

- A human clone of Picard is raised to infiltrate Star Fleet (not a bad idea)

- The then romulan government falls and the plan is shelved as to provacative and could start a new war with the Feds (reasonable)
- Said human Clone shipped off to penal planet (likely)

- Penal Planet is actually Remus which is tuffed full of Remans (B/s not one word has ever been mentioned of Remans in any of
  the   shows).

- Said human clone is somehow able to convince that he (a human clone) as thier leader with a bunch of Reman prosoners can
  somehow escape their prison, find a ship to get to romulas and kill the entire Romulan Senate without anyone knowing about
  or the Romulan fleet catching them. (god give me strengthi could see B&B winging this while they sipped on their Starbucks).

- They do it (B&B go on the FBI most wanted lame asses poster)

- While all this is going on they build the "Uber" battleship which conviently several times more powerful than the Enterprise E
  (presumambly this this was to help raise the tension when all i wanted to do was toss my cookies)

- Human clone offers peace to the Feds but atcually turns out to be a lunatic who wants to destroy Earth and thereby the
  Federation (B&B chortle over thir now cold Starbucks at how great this movie is going to be)

- The Enterprise of course being the Only ship around must somehow defeat thier monstrous ship (B&B copy&paste plot from any
  one of hundred different Star Trek Shows)

- Critically damaged the Crew of the Enterprise somehow destroy the Lunatic Clone/Reman leader/ with the tragic loss of Data
  (the audience by this point in full bawling mode gets down on their needs and thanks god that they have B&B to take care of
   thier precious star trek franchise, they tear thier clothes and rub ashes in thier hair and prostrate themselves before the movie
   screen).

- Credits

B&B dont need to be shot, drawn and quatered, beaten maimed or mutliated. They just need to go do something a bit more suited to their tastes, maybe the next Lizzy Mguire movie?

[Hyperion]

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

And SFB is not canon.  The map of the border that showed a second star system from "The Balance of Terror" called Romii is canon.

Agreed because then we get into the whole SFB vs SFC debate which is like chewing somebody elses gum. I just mentioned because it was there

[Rat Boy]

So how do you translate rommii to remus?

That would be SFB's problem, since they were the ones who thought that Romii must have been Remus.  There is no canon proof that says otherwise.

Does anyone here read the ST books?

Novels, you know - written text and all that?

Again, not canon.


Here's a simple guide to what is and what is not canon, folks.  If it's on a TV screen or movie screen, it's canon (whether or not the animated show is is a matter of debate; Roddenberry said he didn't think it was).  If it's printed in a book, a playing card, a table-top game, or programmed into a computer, it is not canon.

[Chris SI]

The Cartoon is NOT cannon, Paramount insisted on this.