Topic: Braga: Next Trek film to deal with Romulan War

[Rat Boy]

Excerpts from the latest Star Trek Communicator up at the Trek BBS


Also has bullets from an interview with Berman and the aforementioned talk with Braga concering the direction of S4 of ENT and the movie:

On Feds:
"We definitely want to start getting into some major Trek-oriented historical landmarks". "There are going to be some major interstellar events and conflicts happening that could involve the forming of the federation. We're going to see more of what's going on back at Earth. We might see something dealing with the Eugenics Wars".

On the Rommie war:
" It's certainly one of the things that we've been discussing. But there's also a prequel feature in development regarding the ROMULAN WARS, so we might have to stay away from that".

Well, that's certainly an eyebrow raiser.

[J. Carney]

Sounds like the fool finally figured out who butters his bread since they nearly ditched Enterprise due to horrid ratings.

Mayhaps we fans are starting to get through to him... or at least appeal to the better angles of his pocketbook?

[EmeraldEdge]

The only drawback is that these fools are still in charge of it and have ruined so much already.  They'll even take credit for coming up with the idea of the Romulan war, and say it was something they wanted to do all along.  heh.  They should have been shot for the appearance of the Remans alone (and the bastardization of what the Romulans are).  Just what kind of Romulans will they be fighting?  Maybe even a new breed?  Ugh!

[J. Carney]

Bravo EmeraldEdge!

I heartily agree, B&B ruined the Rihannia for everyone. THey took a race of honorable people full of a noble kind of savagery and turned them into the ultimate backstabbers.

[Crusader]

Well I for one am shocked that they are finally talking about the Earth/Romulan War.  My greatest fear for Enterprise was that they were going to blow off this single most important event in trek history.  If they had blown the war off it would have totally ruined Enterprise for me.  I have tolerated Enterprise to this point mostly in the hopes of seeing the Earth / Romulan War played out on the show.

Now at least there's room for hope.

[Rat Boy]

More official information.


And as for the "Rihannia" or whatever, that is not canon; just an invention by some author years ago.  As for the rest, well, when you have a species that only appeared in two episodes in the Original Series and then never again for two decades, it leaves open a lot for interpretation.

[Merlinfmct87]

Quite. I'm sorry, but the concept of Rhiannsu(Spell check me J. Carney) and "Treachery will get you anywhere" just don't mix. Beh.

Commander Donatra(nemisis) was nice to see though .

Merlin

[Merlinfmct87]

Speaking of--Where do you get all that wonderful Romulan Language stuff J. Carney? I'd love to add some of it to my sig. It looks wonderful.

Maybe mixed with a little elvish...

Merlin

[J. Carney]

More official information.


And as for the "Rihannia" or whatever, that is not canon; just an invention by some author years ago.  As for the rest, well, when you have a species that only appeared in two episodes in the Original Series and then never again for two decades, it leaves open a lot for interpretation.

RatBoy...

Sorry I'm not a Fed lover, but I like the idea that the Romulans could be noble and honorable- like they were portrayed in TOS- and not be a bootlicking Freddy.

A lot of characters were portrayed only once or twice in TOS and are still fixtures for fans:

Cyrino Jones
Harcort Fenton Mudd
Kahn Noonian Sughn (he got a movie deal out of one show)
The Mirror Universe
Tribbles
The Horta
The Tholians
The Gorn

The Klingons were fixtures on the show because the USSR was a fixture of everyday life, nothing more.

This is how non-canon things become canon. Fans like them and the directors listen. Enough Rom fans start using Diane Duane's alnguage she cooked up and Trek will make it canon, with her permission.

After all the bloody Klingon fans did it!

[Rat Boy]

Sorry I'm not a Fed lover, but I like the idea that the Romulans could be noble and honorable-

And some are.  But, just as Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander gave them an honoable side, so too did the character of Decius give them a treacherous side, a side that came to light in the early days of TNG when Roddenberry ran the show.  If you want to blame someone for character assassination, blame him.

[J. Carney]

Sorry I'm not a Fed lover, but I like the idea that the Romulans could be noble and honorable-

And some are.  But, just as Mark Lenard's Romulan Commander gave them an honoable side, so too did the character of Decius give them a treacherous side, a side that came to light in the early days of TNG when Roddenberry ran the show.  If you want to blame someone for character assassination, blame him.

But he also had Sela (who dispite having what seemed to Picard as being a twisted outlook on honor) who held to the original xenophobic, superior race, honor-bound type of character that the two Commanders in the TOS episodes did...

The Empire and Honor above all.

B&B really killed the Roms in Nemisis, but it was more of a coup de gras than a single, vicious stroke.

[Rat Boy]

B&B really killed the Roms in Nemisis, but it was more of a coup de gras than a single, vicious stroke.

Correction again, it was only one B for the movie, and despite some of the Romulans, they were ultimately redeemed by the characters of Donatra and Suran.  Other than that, what exactly were the lead-ups to this coup de gras?

[J. Carney]

B&B really killed the Roms in Nemisis, but it was more of a coup de gras than a single, vicious stroke.

Correction again, it was only one B for the movie, and despite some of the Romulans, they were ultimately redeemed by the characters of Donatra and Suran.  Other than that, what exactly were the lead-ups to this coup de gras?

Didn't know itwas only one B in the movie- will reserve a special hatred forhim from now on. 

Rodenbery did start it, looking for a new *hopes his Russian is right* Glavney Provitnik 'Main Adversary' to replace the Klingons (best term I can come up with since they werer representative of the USSR). It wasn't so much in how the characters were written, but more in how the race was portraied. All references to the Romulans contain a prejudice- an inherent 'bad guy' mentality that was not present in the two TOS appearances.

TOS, even with the Klingons, portrayed a race without such a tremendous bias being present. Sure the Klingons and Romulans were enemies of the Federation, but they were not viewed as, in a word, EVIL- they were shown as being what they were, an alien culture that ascribed to a different school of thought.

TNG just started making them 'Bad Guys,' and attached a real stigma to the antagonist role that any species in that slot had to endure. With the exceptions of Jerok and Sela, I cannot think of another Romulan character in TNG that held to a real code of honor.

That was why I said it was a coup de grace- the Roms had been bled dry subtly by bad press for a long time- Nemisis just blew what was left out the window with the whole Reman thing.

[Dash Jones]

I actually loved Nemesis.  I have no problem seeing the Romulans as making another race subservient to them...in fact with some of their attitudes, I would expect it.  Afterall, not everyone can be as great as a Romulan!

 

[DAnahos_XC]

Excerpts from the latest Star Trek Communicator up at the Trek BBS


Also has bullets from an interview with Berman and the aforementioned talk with Braga concering the direction of S4 of ENT and the movie:

On Feds:
"We definitely want to start getting into some major Trek-oriented historical landmarks". "There are going to be some major interstellar events and conflicts happening that could involve the forming of the federation. We're going to see more of what's going on back at Earth. We might see something dealing with the Eugenics Wars".

On the Rommie war:
" It's certainly one of the things that we've been discussing. But there's also a prequel feature in development regarding the ROMULAN WARS, so we might have to stay away from that".

Well, that's certainly an eyebrow raiser.

* DAnahos_XC blinks and does a double take.

//me parties like it's 1999...well 2004, anyway.

[EmeraldEdge]

I actually loved Nemesis.  I have no problem seeing the Romulans as making another race subservient to them...in fact with some of their attitudes, I would expect it.  Afterall, not everyone can be as great as a Romulan!

 

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.  I still have not seen the film yet so I haven't memorized it all, but supposedly they were turned into these vampire things by exposure to elements on Remus or something.  Just bad.  What's worse is the forhead ridges on the Romulans.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  Not only does it look stupid, but it takes away some of the cool thing about Romulans.  They could be anywhere in the Federation because they looked just like Vulcans (where they came from in the first place).  Given the time they have been away from Vulcan, it is also highly unlikely that they would have "evolved" a forhead ridge (let alone into some hideous Nosferatu like being) given the longer life cycle of Vulcans, and their long periods in between mating, they just wouldn't have that many generations in several hundred years to have evolved like that. 

[Desty Nova]

I agree with J.Carney about it being stupid how the Romulans were turned into staright up bad guys. Like they were all being evil for the sake of being evil. And yes, Nemesis was pretty much the last nail in the coffin IMO.
One of the things I have always liked about SFB is that none of the main races are 'evil' (except possibly the Andros). They all have their problems and noble qualities, and they are variously made enemies because of conflicting viewpoints or needs. Many of them hate each other and would have everyone believe their opponents are 'evil', but this is just not so with any of them. Makes them all more believable I think. The Romulans and Klingons are not sitting behind their borders twirling their big black moustaches and hatching their next evil scheme while laughing maniacally, they are simply doing what they think is right for their people, empires, the galaxy, whatever.   

That being said, I'll have a good laugh at how B&B screw this up. 

[J. Carney]

I actually loved Nemesis.  I have no problem seeing the Romulans as making another race subservient to them...in fact with some of their attitudes, I would expect it.  Afterall, not everyone can be as great as a Romulan!

 

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.  I still have not seen the film yet so I haven't memorized it all, but supposedly they were turned into these vampire things by exposure to elements on Remus or something.  Just bad.  What's worse is the forhead ridges on the Romulans.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  Not only does it look stupid, but it takes away some of the cool thing about Romulans.  They could be anywhere in the Federation because they looked just like Vulcans (where they came from in the first place).  Given the time they have been away from Vulcan, it is also highly unlikely that they would have "evolved" a forhead ridge (let alone into some hideous Nosferatu like being) given the longer life cycle of Vulcans, and their long periods in between mating, they just wouldn't have that many generations in several hundred years to have evolved like that. 

See, Emerald Edge, here's something that they missed making Remus toxic-

Remus is a desert world.
Vulcan is a desert world.

Romulans, while traveling from Vulcan, grew Vulcan grain. Where would this grain indigenious to a dry planet grow best?

Wet Romulas
Dry Remus?

Remus was the breadbasket of the Empire; being the plante most like Vulcan, it was the one that the Romuland could adapr their food stocks to the easiest.

Oh, yeah... info on Romulan lifecycles:

Physical maturity- early 20's
Legally "Of Age" - 25
average lifespan 160 - 180 years; max: aprox 215 years

Romulans don't do the "7 Year Itch" thing either reguarding mating. They are just like humans in the fact that when they want it, they want it. Romulans may marry anytime from their mid to late 20's onward and can continue to have children almost their whole first century.

There were 13 gernerations between the end of the Journey (flight from Vulcan) and Humanity stumbling accross them.

[Magnum357]

I agree with most, even though I like TNG, I like TOS Romulans more then TNG Romulans.  Much more interesting in my opinion.  And I agree with Desty Nova about SFB races literature, they are far more interesting then a lot of the stuff we see in Star Trek lately. 

So what do you guys think?  Does this Romulan War movie stand a chance?  I just hope if they do make a Romulan War Movie that they don't use Enterprise as a basis for it.  But I have a feeling B&B will probably do it anyways.   

[EmeraldEdge]

Yeah, I forgot they don't do the whole 7 year thing, but I still don't buy that they could evolve into the bumpy forhead guys in that short a time (especially if you take consider the time period TOS to TNG rather than Flight to TNG).   I take TOS Romulans as they way they are supposed to be, because they appeared that way in TMP movies as well (whereas they changed the Klingons, but I think they should have explained it as another species of Klingon in the empire rather than just blowing it off and not explaining).  So, somewhere from Kirk's time to TNG all romulans grew pronounced forhead ridges.

I agree with you on the Remus thing, but weren't the Remans supposedly mutated because they were mining something or other?  Like I said, I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't really know the full extent of it, but knowing B&B (or B in this case) I'm sure it wasn't well thought out.

[J. Carney]

Yeah, I forgot they don't do the whole 7 year thing, but I still don't buy that they could evolve into the bumpy forhead guys in that short a time (especially if you take consider the time period TOS to TNG rather than Flight to TNG).   I take TOS Romulans as they way they are supposed to be, because they appeared that way in TMP movies as well (whereas they changed the Klingons, but I think they should have explained it as another species of Klingon in the empire rather than just blowing it off and not explaining).  So, somewhere from Kirk's time to TNG all romulans grew pronounced forhead ridges.

I agree with you on the Remus thing, but weren't the Remans supposedly mutated because they were mining something or other?  Like I said, I haven't seen the movie yet so I don't really know the full extent of it, but knowing B&B (or B in this case) I'm sure it wasn't well thought out.

I haven't seen the movie. I read the relevent info but have forgotten it... I'll look around and see if I can find it somewhere.

And I also agree that they should have done something to explain why all of the sudden the Klingons looked different in TMP. But Oh, well... unpredicatble change is the penalty we pay for loving Sci-Fi.

[Rat Boy]

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.

There is no statement from the movie to support that conclusion.  It's assumed that the Remans are just a conquered people.

I just hope if they do make a Romulan War Movie that they don't use Enterprise as a basis for it.  But I have a feeling B&B will probably do it anyways.   

They'd have to involve them, somehow, since it is established that Archer is deeply involved in the formation of the Federation that follows a short year after the war.

[J. Carney]

They'd have to involve them, somehow, since it is established that Archer is deeply involved in the formation of the Federation that follows a short year after the war.

They weren't too skippy on following established storylines- either the TOS one or the different TNG version- of either first contact or the foundingof the Federation.

Why get interested in continuity all the sudden?

[Davey-E]

See, Emerald Edge, here's something that they missed making Remus toxic-

Remus is a desert world.
Vulcan is a desert world.

Exactly, and boy did B&B screw up showing Remus as a dead world, just pure ignorance of REAL TREK

However, There would NEVER have been a War between Earth and Romulus WITHOUT warp drive, the Distances were simply too far, The old Adage that they fought with nuclear weps and no warp drive is STUPID, we must get rid of that idea

The Earth/Rom war started with attacks by the Roms on "Qualor" and "Draken" which the Earth Forces had planned on colonising, Leading to a Massive escalation in which the Vulcans and Andorians joined Earth

[Rat Boy]

Why get interested in continuity all the sudden?

My personal opinion: Berman had been planning for the entire series to lead up to and wage the Romulan War much as DS9 did with the Dominion War.  I'm guessing he did a lot of planning for it over time, and now that the writing is on the wall for ENT, he's trying to find a new way to bring that concept to light.  Personally, I think one whole war that spans several years is a bit much for the silver screen.  It'd work a lot better as a mini-series, ala Band of Brothers or the Dune minis on the Sci Fi Channel.

[Chris SI]

If B & B do it, the Romulans will controlled by dopey future boys giving them warp tech for the war.

[Rat Boy]

If B & B do it, the Romulans will controlled by dopey future boys giving them warp tech for the war.

But the problem is is that they need warp tech in order to even get out of their system, or else this'll be a boring war.  My personal theory is that although the Romulans have warp drive, they do not have a matter/antimatter reactor to power it.  Instead, they use fusion reactors and thus their power is "simple impulse."

[FPF-DieHard]

See, Emerald Edge, here's something that they missed making Remus toxic-

Remus is a desert world.
Vulcan is a desert world.

Exactly, and boy did B&B screw up showing Remus as a dead world, just pure ignorance of REAL TREK

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

[Davey-E]

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

Actually DH, I think it actually crashlanded on the Planet and BOOM, But True if they want to go that way,
wow
Now i know why the Rommies hate the Federation 

[Chris SI]

But the problem is is that they need warp tech in order to even get out of their system, or else this'll be a boring war.  My personal theory is that although the Romulans have warp drive, they do not have a matter/antimatter reactor to power it.  Instead, they use fusion reactors and thus their power is "simple impulse."

There is a way around this.

In a DS 9 episode, they showed Sisko recreating the ancient Bajoran ships that had star travel, via natuarlly occuring warp eddies near the denoris belt.

All you have to do is say such a thing also exists near Romulan space, and you can have two pre-warp races fight it out, the ships being designed to take advantage of this.

[J. Carney]

I guess the USS MacArthur self-destructing in Remus's atmosphere could explain a lot of this if they would acknowledge SFB history . . .

Die Hard... The Big Mac was gunned down by the Roms and crashed on Remus. It didn't self distruct- it just got it's a$$ blowed up.

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas. This is further proof (in the TOS/SFB timeline) that there were 'non-tactical' warp ships that had fusion or 'impulse' reactors powering a primative warp drive system like Chris SI suggests.

[Desty Nova]

Oh man....the Big Mac going down...that would be so cool to see on the screen.

Anyway, Roms were definitely capable of FTL travel in that era....the notion that they wouldn't be is ridiculuous and beyond the limits of credibility, I don't care what anyone says. But they had non-tactical warp, meaning they couldn't fight at warp speeds, which other races(in particular their mortal enemies, the Gorn) could. This disparity is largely what spurred the development of the cloaking device and the plasma torpedo. The Romulans needed something that would allow their basically immobile ships to survive battles with the maneuverably superior Gorns.
Why did tactical warp elude the Romulans for so long? Well, beats me. Module Y1 says something about the way the Rom govt. is structured, the political infighting has caused many technological breakthroughs to be delayed indefinitely. So it surprises me that the cloak or plasma torp could have ever been invented. Oh well, they got the tech from the Klingons, so it's all good I suppose. 

[Rat Boy]

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas.

There is no canon proof of that.

[DougC]

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas.

There is no canon proof of that.

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

[Rat Boy]

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

And SFB is not canon.  The map of the border that showed a second star system from "The Balance of Terror" called Romii is canon.

[FA Frey XC]

So how do you translate rommii to remus?

Does anyone here read the ST books?

Novels, you know - written text and all that?

[Hyperion]

I actually loved Nemesis.  I have no problem seeing the Romulans as making another race subservient to them...in fact with some of their attitudes, I would expect it.  Afterall, not everyone can be as great as a Romulan!

 

The problem is that the Remans, are actually Romulans.  I still have not seen the film yet so I haven't memorized it all, but supposedly they were turned into these vampire things by exposure to elements on Remus or something.  Just bad.  What's worse is the forhead ridges on the Romulans.  Who's brilliant idea was that?  Not only does it look stupid, but it takes away some of the cool thing about Romulans.  They could be anywhere in the Federation because they looked just like Vulcans (where they came from in the first place).  Given the time they have been away from Vulcan, it is also highly unlikely that they would have "evolved" a forhead ridge (let alone into some hideous Nosferatu like being) given the longer life cycle of Vulcans, and their long periods in between mating, they just wouldn't have that many generations in several hundred years to have evolved like that. 

I think some of the confusion comes from a book that was published years ago called the "Romulan Way" by Dianne Carey. It wasnt your usual sort of shoot'em up star trek book but and actual novel that laid out the Vulcan/Romulan history from when the race split into seperate nations (this is where the name Rhihannsu came from). It actually began thousand of years before Star Trek TOS back in Surak's  time and dealt with the Vulcans development of logic and how some of the clans refused to accept the idea on non-emotion (they felt it emasculated the race) However the Vulcans/Rhihanssu did understand that another war on Vulcan would destroy the planet for everyone. So they gathered up there clans and put them on the sleeper ships and headed out to what the thought would be a similar planet. And of course with sleeper ships something always goes wrong and one group of the vulcans/Rhihansuu ended up on Remus. Evenetually the Vulcans from Romulas hooked up with the Vulcans of Remus and understood what happened and set out to carve out thier own nation.

Anyways the book goes deeply into the history from that moment and explains why the Vulcans Never told the Federation about the genetic link, and how they got stuck the name Romulans (the Rhhansuu when they found out who the Romans were apparently were not impressed). The thing is that Nemisis basically trahsed all that.

Some of the highlights:

- A human clone of Picard is raised to infiltrate Star Fleet (not a bad idea)

- The then romulan government falls and the plan is shelved as to provacative and could start a new war with the Feds (reasonable)
- Said human Clone shipped off to penal planet (likely)

- Penal Planet is actually Remus which is tuffed full of Remans (B/s not one word has ever been mentioned of Remans in any of
  the   shows).

- Said human clone is somehow able to convince that he (a human clone) as thier leader with a bunch of Reman prosoners can
  somehow escape their prison, find a ship to get to romulas and kill the entire Romulan Senate without anyone knowing about
  or the Romulan fleet catching them. (god give me strengthi could see B&B winging this while they sipped on their Starbucks).

- They do it (B&B go on the FBI most wanted lame asses poster)

- While all this is going on they build the "Uber" battleship which conviently several times more powerful than the Enterprise E
  (presumambly this this was to help raise the tension when all i wanted to do was toss my cookies)

- Human clone offers peace to the Feds but atcually turns out to be a lunatic who wants to destroy Earth and thereby the
  Federation (B&B chortle over thir now cold Starbucks at how great this movie is going to be)

- The Enterprise of course being the Only ship around must somehow defeat thier monstrous ship (B&B copy&paste plot from any
  one of hundred different Star Trek Shows)

- Critically damaged the Crew of the Enterprise somehow destroy the Lunatic Clone/Reman leader/ with the tragic loss of Data
  (the audience by this point in full bawling mode gets down on their needs and thanks god that they have B&B to take care of
   thier precious star trek franchise, they tear thier clothes and rub ashes in thier hair and prostrate themselves before the movie
   screen).

- Credits

B&B dont need to be shot, drawn and quatered, beaten maimed or mutliated. They just need to go do something a bit more suited to their tastes, maybe the next Lizzy Mguire movie?

[Hyperion]

actually there is...
The strategic game for SFB is called Federation and Empire and on the strategic map for that game both Romulas & Remus are seprate systems, but again that is SFB

And SFB is not canon.  The map of the border that showed a second star system from "The Balance of Terror" called Romii is canon.

Agreed because then we get into the whole SFB vs SFC debate which is like chewing somebody elses gum. I just mentioned because it was there

[Rat Boy]

So how do you translate rommii to remus?

That would be SFB's problem, since they were the ones who thought that Romii must have been Remus.  There is no canon proof that says otherwise.

Does anyone here read the ST books?

Novels, you know - written text and all that?

Again, not canon.


Here's a simple guide to what is and what is not canon, folks.  If it's on a TV screen or movie screen, it's canon (whether or not the animated show is is a matter of debate; Roddenberry said he didn't think it was).  If it's printed in a book, a playing card, a table-top game, or programmed into a computer, it is not canon.

[Chris SI]

The Cartoon is NOT cannon, Paramount insisted on this.

[Rat Boy]

I think some of the confusion comes from a book that was published years ago called the "Romulan Way" by Dianne Carey. It wasnt your usual sort of shoot'em up star trek book but and actual novel that laid out the Vulcan/Romulan history from when the race split into seperate nations (this is where the name Rhihannsu came from). It actually began thousand of years before Star Trek TOS back in Surak's  time and dealt with the Vulcans development of logic and how some of the clans refused to accept the idea on non-emotion (they felt it emasculated the race) However the Vulcans/Rhihanssu did understand that another war on Vulcan would destroy the planet for everyone. So they gathered up there clans and put them on the sleeper ships and headed out to what the thought would be a similar planet. And of course with sleeper ships something always goes wrong and one group of the vulcans/Rhihansuu ended up on Remus. Evenetually the Vulcans from Romulas hooked up with the Vulcans of Remus and understood what happened and set out to carve out thier own nation.

All of which isn't canon and shouldn't be treated as such.  There are plenty of novels like that out there, some good, some not that got overruled by canon episodes and movies, some good, some not.

The thing is that Nemisis basically trahsed all that.

If you want to discuss the quality of the film, that's one thing, but just bear in mind that it is canon and there isn't anything you can do to change that.  For every "Balance of Terror" or "Unification" we accept, we also much accept every "Spock's Brain" or "Justice" as well.

[Rat Boy]

The Cartoon is NOT cannon, Paramount insisted on this.

Initially they did and even tried to suppress it from ever being shown again.  Now, however, they're releasing it on DVD either late this year or early next year, which clouds the issue.

[Hyperion]

I think some of the confusion comes from a book that was published years ago called the "Romulan Way" by Dianne Carey. It wasnt your usual sort of shoot'em up star trek book but and actual novel that laid out the Vulcan/Romulan history from when the race split into seperate nations (this is where the name Rhihannsu came from). It actually began thousand of years before Star Trek TOS back in Surak's  time and dealt with the Vulcans development of logic and how some of the clans refused to accept the idea on non-emotion (they felt it emasculated the race) However the Vulcans/Rhihanssu did understand that another war on Vulcan would destroy the planet for everyone. So they gathered up there clans and put them on the sleeper ships and headed out to what the thought would be a similar planet. And of course with sleeper ships something always goes wrong and one group of the vulcans/Rhihansuu ended up on Remus. Evenetually the Vulcans from Romulas hooked up with the Vulcans of Remus and understood what happened and set out to carve out thier own nation.

All of which isn't canon and shouldn't be treated as such.  There are plenty of novels like that out there, some good, some not that got overruled by canon episodes and movies, some good, some not.

The thing is that Nemisis basically trahsed all that.

If you want to discuss the quality of the film, that's one thing, but just bear in mind that it is canon and there isn't anything you can do to change that.  For every "Balance of Terror" or "Unification" we accept, we also much accept every "Spock's Brain" or "Justice" as well.

The reason I posted that part was that someone was curious about the book and so i laid oout what i knew. As far as "canon" as ive said before its been open to a lot of interpretation. My issue with B&B is that it seems that they dont really have one. For whenever thier working on one particular star trek venue that "canon" (thiers that is) seems to be re-written constantly (which explains why we see so many temporal episodes).

I went into the Nemisis movie in length for the reason to highlight this kind of behaviour. We now have to deal with the travesty that these individuals have created for us (im not gonna mention the new Vulcan foreheads). Im aware that when you make a movie like this its done ultimately to make money, without the profit, no more movies, no more shows. For those who have grown up with star trek we learned to roll with the punches  but even now those who are fanatic about star trek movies ans shows are staying away in droves. Those who are general SciFi fans dont roll at all they go see stuf like I-Robot and think its a great movie.

B&B have already killed off the general publics desire for Star Trek and now they alienate the fans of the concept(Fanatic and non fanatic). Utlimately i dont care what "canon" they have, i just wish they would choose one and stick with it

[J. Carney]

And I doubt that they got that from SFB, because in SFB, Remus is in a seperate star system than Romulas.

There is no canon proof of that.

Didn't I just say that?!?!

Rat Boy, I KNOW that SFB is not considdered cannon.

I was trying to say that it was unlikely that they used information from a non-cannon game to write a non-cannon movie and you accuse me of my information being non-cannon?
 
I just freely admitted that fact! I know the canonical guidlines for Trek.

Hope no hard feelings, man, but that wasa little fierce.


As for the Romulas/Romii, I think that that was some writer's poor knowledge of the workings of a dead language meeting head on with an attempt to make a Latin-sounding plural of Romulas.

Sorry that I like a little bit of 'non-canon' flavor to my Trek. The whole game that we play here is technically 'noncanon,' so what's the big deal.

Just read you new ppost- nothing would please me more than B&B picking one version of 'canon' and sticking to it...

unless I could hook up with Nikole Kidman... that would be even better.

[Rat Boy]

(im not gonna mention the new Vulcan foreheads).

They've had them since they first appeared on TNG in the first season, back when Roddenberry had control.

[J. Carney]

B&B dont need to be shot, drawn and quatered, beaten maimed or mutliated. They just need to go do something a bit more suited to their tastes, maybe the next Lizzy Mguire movie?

 

Hypereion, that has to be the best suggestion that anyone could give them that did not involve a physically impossible use of thier 'little friends.'

[Hyperion]

(im not gonna mention the new Vulcan foreheads).

They've had them since they first appeared on TNG in the first season, back when Roddenberry had control.

Granted, but if i recall correctly the first Season had Dc Fontana and David Gerrold as writers and after they didnt last long. If "canon" means aliens with new bumps on thier heads when peviously they didnt,and whatever slops they through us on film, then i guess were doomed. In which case they might as well have put a hairweave on partick stewarts head for the second season.

[EmeraldEdge]

Just wait, the next B&B Trek project will feature all humans with forhead ridges.   The claim will be that they just didn't have the budget to put forhead ridges on all the human characters before, but now they do so on they go. heh.

[Dash Jones]

The Cartoon is NOT cannon, Paramount insisted on this.

Initially they did and even tried to suppress it from ever being shown again.  Now, however, they're releasing it on DVD either late this year or early next year, which clouds the issue.

Wow!  Really!?  When do they go on sale!?  I've never seen any of the animated Trek...Very excited if I could!

[Chris SI]

I have some of them on VHS, bought at Cons.

They run hot and cold, but some have really good stories.

For example, the 'holodeck' was shown for the first time in an animated episode, "Practical Joker," and this was the old TOS Enterprise, not even movie modified.

I did see them live, once upon a time.

[J. Carney]

I have some of them on VHS, bought at Cons.

They run hot and cold, but some have really good stories.

For example, the 'holodeck' was shown for the first time in an animated episode, "Practical Joker," and this was the old TOS Enterprise, not even movie modified.

I did see them live, once upon a time.

Yeah, TOS is given more credit in the novels and TAS for having better tech that Rodenbery couldn't do with 1960's not-so-special effects.

All of the Diane Duane books I have mentioned give the Big E a holodeck and several smaller 'holotanks' for playing games like Sulu's version of SFC.

[Hyperion]

Just wait, the next B&B Trek project will feature all humans with forhead ridges.   The claim will be that they just didn't have the budget to put forhead ridges on all the human characters before, but now they do so on they go. heh.

And theyll get Jessica Simpson to be the new ships counseler in whatever series they think of next, i can see it now.

" LT cmmder Mindy looks into her desks computer terminal deep in thought...the music rises in crescendo as they tension rises, all of sudden!!!! ....she flips out her lipstick and redoes her lips "taupe goddess" just in time to beam down with the away team"

Then next thing ya know.....Ms simpson is "canon"

[J. Carney]

Then next thing ya know.....Ms Simpson is "canon"

'Cannon' or not, she could blow me away anytime...

She just don't need to be in Trek...

"CUE THE HUMANS WITH FOREHEAD RIDGES!!!

[Hyperion]

Then next thing ya know.....Ms Simpson is "canon"

'Cannon' or not, she could blow me away anytime...

She just don't need to be in Trek...

"CUE THE HUMANS WITH FOREHEAD RIDGES!!!

But they gotta make her wear one of those little starfeelt microminis and i wouldnt care if she had ridges or not

[J. Carney]

Then next thing ya know.....Ms Simpson is "canon"

'Cannon' or not, she could blow me away anytime...

She just don't need to be in Trek...

"CUE THE HUMANS WITH FOREHEAD RIDGES!!!"

But they gotta make her wear one of those little starfeelt microminis and i wouldnt care if she had ridges or not

True that, Sir... true that.

[EmeraldEdge]

Heck, if they follow the "Let's always have a hot chick in tight clothing despite what everyone else is wearing" paradigm they seem to have we may just have the Starfleet Bikini Squad show up.   You never know.  It's pre-holo deck tech so they have to get their entertainment somewhere, what better than an onboard Bikini crew.  heh.  It makes perfect sense right?

[Chris SI]

TOS was big on micro-mini skirts.

[J. Carney]

TOS was big on micro-mini skirts.

Can we put her in the Mirror Universe uniform instead?

[EmeraldEdge]

TOS was big on micro-mini skirts.

Hehe, yep!   But at least they ALL wore micro-mini's   they didn't have everyone runnning around in jumpsuits except for the "hot-chick" who wore a micro-mini everyweek.   Starfleet's general order "If she's hot, we gotta see it.  Stick her in the tight small uniform.  Everyone else get's the baggy" (although technically I find Hoshi hotter than T'pol, and so forth.  The tight clothes chics are rarely my personal fave).

[J. Carney]

(although technically I find Hoshi hotter than T'pol, and so forth.  The tight clothes chics are rarely my personal fave).

I like Hoshi better too. She is just so sweet and innocent that it make you wanna do all kind of 'interesting' things to her.

[Rat Boy]

And ironically, she's hooked up with the guy who played Shinzon.