Topic: The real reason Taldren Closed it's offices in CA.

[Dash Jones]

Dash is wrong.

There is no "Taldren Korea".

Taldren CA and Taldren Korea were child companies of Taldren.

When the parent company Taldren fell, the children had to fall as well.

Erik has already stated this as fact and is going to come up with another "company name".

People, can we please get our facts straight before posting speculation?

Regards,

Taldren Korea still existed at the time I posted the item...Mr. Bethke DID say that he would rename it however.  Is that clear enough for you?

Here it is more clearly...Taldren and Taldren Korea were started up as separate companies, BUT connected via name, rights, and Mr. Bethke himself.  Now that Taldren in CA is shut down for the most part, AND Taldren Korea is built up independently in Korea, Taldren Korea has no real connections to the original Taldren in CA, and hence Mr. Bethke has no reason to continue it as Taldren Korea, and indeed has stated he will change it's name.

Thanks for trying to debunk me...but I hope I have shown I'm not entirely ignorant.  Yes, I've read the thread...I still haven't heard if Taldren Korea's name has been changed officially yet, if it hasn't, indeed, then, there is STILL a Taldren Korea...just out of interest.

Sorry this is a cached site, but it's hard to draw up information...

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=taldren+korea&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&u=www.worldcybergame.com/confer_shcase/d_main.asp&w=taldren+korea&d=C17D1DBA61&c=610&yc=46039&icp=1

Erik Bethke          CEO / Taldren, Inc., & Taldren-Korea, Ltd.
   
  Erik Bethke has been developing games for the last nine years. During this time he has worked up the ranks from a junior engineering position to the owner and CEO of Taldren. At Taldren, he is responsible for overall project development, new business development, directing future R&D expenditures, and leading internal employee growth programs. He has won contracts for Taldren with top publishers such as Activision and Interplay. Projects managed at Taldren include the Starfleet Command real-time tactical starship simulator. He has acted as the lead designer and producer/executive producer throughout the series including SFC 1, SFC: Neutral Zone, SFC II: Empires at War and SFC: Orion Pirates, and Starfleet Command 3. This series to date has sold well over 600,000 units. Taldren is now near to releasing Black9 an original sci-fi action/RPG for the PC and Xbox Prior to founding Taldren Inc., Erik has worked for both large publishers and small developers of the game industry to gain a broad foundation to build Taldren upon. Projects included I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream for Cyberdreams, PlanetNET for MPGNet, and Caesars Palace Windows 95 for Interplay.
   
     
 Accredited Game Titles   
  Black 9, Starfleet Command III, Orion Pirates, Starfleet Command II, Starfleet Command I, Caesars Palace Windows 95, PlanetNET, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
   
     
 Keynote Abstract   
  Design Patterns of Online Games
Online games are still in the beginning stages of a form of entertainment media, they range from Battle.net to Lineage to avatar sites to Star Wars Galaxies and even to eBay.
Already there have been so many successful and not-so-successful online games that have been released throughout the world; surely there must be some emerging patterns of what makes an online gaming experience a success or a failure.
Are these patterns merely technical features, gameplay features, business models, cultural differences or all of the above?
This talk will attempt to determine if there are already solid patterns of design in our emergent industry and end with some predictions of what the future trends of online games will play like.

On a sidenote however, this is UNRELATED to Taldren korea, Mr. Bethke, or others, at least probably...but get a load of this...

http://www.taldren.co.kr/

No idea what it says though...on the otherhand, who knows, I actually think it's some website selling company that is trying to sell Taldren.co.kr in Korea.

[AdmWaterTiger-11thFleet-]

Dash is wrong.

There is no "Taldren Korea".

Taldren CA and Taldren Korea were child companies of Taldren.

When the parent company Taldren fell, the children had to fall as well.

Erik has already stated this as fact and is going to come up with another "company name".

People, can we please get our facts straight before posting speculation?

Regards,

Taldren Korea still existed at the time I posted the item...Mr. Bethke DID say that he would rename it however.  Is that clear enough for you?

Here it is more clearly...Taldren and Taldren Korea were started up as separate companies, BUT connected via name, rights, and Mr. Bethke himself.  Now that Taldren in CA is shut down for the most part, AND Taldren Korea is built up independently in Korea, Taldren Korea has no real connections to the original Taldren in CA, and hence Mr. Bethke has no reason to continue it as Taldren Korea, and indeed has stated he will change it's name.

Thanks for trying to debunk me...but I hope I have shown I'm not entirely ignorant.  Yes, I've read the thread...I still haven't heard if Taldren Korea's name has been changed officially yet, if it hasn't, indeed, then, there is STILL a Taldren Korea...just out of interest.

Sorry this is a cached site, but it's hard to draw up information...

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=taldren+korea&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&u=www.worldcybergame.com/confer_shcase/d_main.asp&w=taldren+korea&d=C17D1DBA61&c=610&yc=46039&icp=1

Erik Bethke          CEO / Taldren, Inc., & Taldren-Korea, Ltd.
   
  Erik Bethke has been developing games for the last nine years. During this time he has worked up the ranks from a junior engineering position to the owner and CEO of Taldren. At Taldren, he is responsible for overall project development, new business development, directing future R&D expenditures, and leading internal employee growth programs. He has won contracts for Taldren with top publishers such as Activision and Interplay. Projects managed at Taldren include the Starfleet Command real-time tactical starship simulator. He has acted as the lead designer and producer/executive producer throughout the series including SFC 1, SFC: Neutral Zone, SFC II: Empires at War and SFC: Orion Pirates, and Starfleet Command 3. This series to date has sold well over 600,000 units. Taldren is now near to releasing Black9 an original sci-fi action/RPG for the PC and Xbox Prior to founding Taldren Inc., Erik has worked for both large publishers and small developers of the game industry to gain a broad foundation to build Taldren upon. Projects included I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream for Cyberdreams, PlanetNET for MPGNet, and Caesars Palace Windows 95 for Interplay.
   
     
 Accredited Game Titles   
  Black 9, Starfleet Command III, Orion Pirates, Starfleet Command II, Starfleet Command I, Caesars Palace Windows 95, PlanetNET, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
   
     
 Keynote Abstract   
  Design Patterns of Online Games
Online games are still in the beginning stages of a form of entertainment media, they range from Battle.net to Lineage to avatar sites to Star Wars Galaxies and even to eBay.
Already there have been so many successful and not-so-successful online games that have been released throughout the world; surely there must be some emerging patterns of what makes an online gaming experience a success or a failure.
Are these patterns merely technical features, gameplay features, business models, cultural differences or all of the above?
This talk will attempt to determine if there are already solid patterns of design in our emergent industry and end with some predictions of what the future trends of online games will play like.

On a sidenote however, this is UNRELATED to Taldren korea, Mr. Bethke, or others, at least probably...but get a load of this...

http://www.taldren.co.kr/

No idea what it says though...on the otherhand, who knows, I actually think it's some website selling company that is trying to sell Taldren.co.kr in Korea.

   
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Any Korean translators in the house?

http://www.taldren.co.kr/

<S>

WaterTiger
 

[Hyperion]

Is that in the last few months they hired Ken Lay

 

[Strat]

'http://www.babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr' is a WONDERFUL TOOL!

Hers the (*messy) translation:

-------------------
   
       
  The corresponding site it will not be able to connect in private ownership the lower part.   
     
  1. The case which is not shopping chasing which is connected in domain   
  2. The case which will violate a stipulation and an operation regulation   
  3. Civil official U above 1 month tu will push and not to be login recording hyu cotton shopping it will drive and the case
   
  4. Shopping the hose which it will drive thing it is used with use outside use and the case where the service is discontinued   
     
   
     
   hyu Cotton shopping it will drive it operates again, it will want the case which, [ again it operates, when ] it is applied.   
   The internal organs above 3 hyu cotton warning and there is not a possibility of receiving the case whole life free use benefit which connection will be restricted or.
   
   The detailed meaning of a passage the manager of corresponding site the hose thing inquires wishes or as the company.
After applying which operates again after 1 hours hyu it becomes Ji the cotton condition to do.
    When if U whom operation application day shopping it will drive again tu it pushed it does not connect
    The next day hyu it is converted again with cotton site. There is not a mistake to use and it wishes.
   
 
 
------------------------------

Oh thats not good up there ^^^^ 
Somekind of Cotton organ got disconnected from the private part and from the lower part, therefor the passage was closed and shopping was discontinued?

 

[Age]

'http://www.babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/tr' is a WONDERFUL TOOL!

Hers the (*messy) translation:

-------------------
   
       
  The corresponding site it will not be able to connect in private ownership the lower part.   
     
  1. The case which is not shopping chasing which is connected in domain   
  2. The case which will violate a stipulation and an operation regulation   
  3. Civil official U above 1 month tu will push and not to be login recording hyu cotton shopping it will drive and the case
   
  4. Shopping the hose which it will drive thing it is used with use outside use and the case where the service is discontinued   
     
   
     
   hyu Cotton shopping it will drive it operates again, it will want the case which, [ again it operates, when ] it is applied.   
   The internal organs above 3 hyu cotton warning and there is not a possibility of receiving the case whole life free use benefit which connection will be restricted or.
   
   The detailed meaning of a passage the manager of corresponding site the hose thing inquires wishes or as the company.
After applying which operates again after 1 hours hyu it becomes Ji the cotton condition to do.
    When if U whom operation application day shopping it will drive again tu it pushed it does not connect
    The next day hyu it is converted again with cotton site. There is not a mistake to use and it wishes.
   
 
 
------------------------------

Oh thats not good up there ^^^^ 
Somekind of Cotton organ got disconnected from the private part and from the lower part, therefor the passage was closed and shopping was discontinued?

 

I am at a loss of what this means and internal organs.I am guessing but wouldn't that mean internal organization of the company?The whole thing is mostly confusing.

[Strat]

I think it means the web-site was down. Sorf of like our own 'HTTP 424 Error' or what have you.

[FA Frey XC]

Dash is wrong.

There is no "Taldren Korea".

Taldren CA and Taldren Korea were child companies of Taldren.

When the parent company Taldren fell, the children had to fall as well.

Erik has already stated this as fact and is going to come up with another "company name".

People, can we please get our facts straight before posting speculation?

Regards,

Taldren Korea still existed at the time I posted the item...Mr. Bethke DID say that he would rename it however.  Is that clear enough for you?

Here it is more clearly...Taldren and Taldren Korea were started up as separate companies, BUT connected via name, rights, and Mr. Bethke himself.  Now that Taldren in CA is shut down for the most part, AND Taldren Korea is built up independently in Korea, Taldren Korea has no real connections to the original Taldren in CA, and hence Mr. Bethke has no reason to continue it as Taldren Korea, and indeed has stated he will change it's name.

Thanks for trying to debunk me...but I hope I have shown I'm not entirely ignorant.  Yes, I've read the thread...I still haven't heard if Taldren Korea's name has been changed officially yet, if it hasn't, indeed, then, there is STILL a Taldren Korea...just out of interest.

Sorry this is a cached site, but it's hard to draw up information...

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=taldren+korea&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&u=www.worldcybergame.com/confer_shcase/d_main.asp&w=taldren+korea&d=C17D1DBA61&c=610&yc=46039&icp=1

Erik Bethke          CEO / Taldren, Inc., & Taldren-Korea, Ltd.
   
  Erik Bethke has been developing games for the last nine years. During this time he has worked up the ranks from a junior engineering position to the owner and CEO of Taldren. At Taldren, he is responsible for overall project development, new business development, directing future R&D expenditures, and leading internal employee growth programs. He has won contracts for Taldren with top publishers such as Activision and Interplay. Projects managed at Taldren include the Starfleet Command real-time tactical starship simulator. He has acted as the lead designer and producer/executive producer throughout the series including SFC 1, SFC: Neutral Zone, SFC II: Empires at War and SFC: Orion Pirates, and Starfleet Command 3. This series to date has sold well over 600,000 units. Taldren is now near to releasing Black9 an original sci-fi action/RPG for the PC and Xbox Prior to founding Taldren Inc., Erik has worked for both large publishers and small developers of the game industry to gain a broad foundation to build Taldren upon. Projects included I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream for Cyberdreams, PlanetNET for MPGNet, and Caesars Palace Windows 95 for Interplay.
   
     
 Accredited Game Titles   
  Black 9, Starfleet Command III, Orion Pirates, Starfleet Command II, Starfleet Command I, Caesars Palace Windows 95, PlanetNET, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
   
     
 Keynote Abstract   
  Design Patterns of Online Games
Online games are still in the beginning stages of a form of entertainment media, they range from Battle.net to Lineage to avatar sites to Star Wars Galaxies and even to eBay.
Already there have been so many successful and not-so-successful online games that have been released throughout the world; surely there must be some emerging patterns of what makes an online gaming experience a success or a failure.
Are these patterns merely technical features, gameplay features, business models, cultural differences or all of the above?
This talk will attempt to determine if there are already solid patterns of design in our emergent industry and end with some predictions of what the future trends of online games will play like.

On a sidenote however, this is UNRELATED to Taldren korea, Mr. Bethke, or others, at least probably...but get a load of this...

http://www.taldren.co.kr/

No idea what it says though...on the otherhand, who knows, I actually think it's some website selling company that is trying to sell Taldren.co.kr in Korea.

No need to try and "debunk" anything, Dash ole Son...

Your typing on the keyboard says it all - which is to say you are, once again - WRONG.

I love how some people think they are so much more informed when the reality is many who ARE in the know are laughing at those individuals who purport such knowledge.

I am going to say nothing more on this subject. If you can't understand simple business models, then it's pointless to try and explain.

Regards,

[Chris SI]

Flog that dead horse boys.

Taldren is history.

The head guy is trying again in Korea.

End of story.

[Byzantine]

Is Bethke a visionary?  i.e. someone with imagination and ideas and a good company starter.  If the 'home run every time' for Taldren CA quote is true it seems to imply that.  But visionaries often crash and burn when it comes to the long haul of keeping a company going day-to-day.  If so, the Nameless Company in Korea  may be just as doomed as Taldren CA in the long run.

I think TraceyG's 21 gun salute thread was excellent.  But she made a technical error or oversight - when Taldren blew up it left a black hole behind.  And that hole has pretty much sucked in all real public knowledge and left us with a lot of myth on a lot of subjects: code base, company history, personality conflicts, marketing might have beens.  Some vestiges of truth may be recovered from the stellar remnants.  Only time will tell.  But like archeology it will mostly just be interesting from an intellectual standpoint.  The past is done.  But something as large as Taldren in so many players hearts and minds leaves a big vacuum that needs filled by something.

As for the future, Frey you are quite right - we are not informed.  And no one is informing.  And in the absence of information rumor and speculation will abound.  Human nature.  Frey, if you are unwilling to share any of the truth you poses then you should at least try to tolerate the rampant speculation.  I hear many respectful words for you in the community but your last post in this thread was more in the combative vein of a Bearslayer or Crim.

But Chris is right.  This whole thread has no place in this forum.  It belongs in OT or equine graveyard.

[KBF-Crim]

Posted byByz:

I hear many respectful words for you in the community but your last post in this thread was more in the combative vein of a Bearslayer or Crim.

Wow...I have been used to hit Frey over the head with...I'm flattered

[Byzantine]

KBF-Crim,

I did not mean that as an attack or personal insult.  If it came off that way I apologize.  I may be hanging out too much in the wrong forums but most of your  posts that I have seen seem to be 'shoot first, let God sort them out'.  The internet (and these forums) is 90% opinion and 10% fact (at best) so guns blazing IS a valid method.  I just personally prefer a more traditional debate style like I mostly see from ChrisSI, SirGod, MentatJohn (ouch, did I say that?) and others.

Sorry to interrupt the flame, no 'jacking intended.
Carry on.

[KBF-Crim]

heh...no problem...I really thought is was funny...

I am very combative...but I try and do so with respect

I do post in other forums besides OT ya know...

[Byzantine]

KBF-Crim,
Big, big, apology here.  I got you confused with Grim.  I shall go stand in the corner with my dunce cap for 30 minutes.

[KBF-Crim]

Please...dont trouble yerself...

Even in mistaken identity...you werent far from the mark...

I often shoot from the hip....hopefully ..I hit something besides my wingman once and a while...

[Dash Jones]

Dash is wrong.

There is no "Taldren Korea".

Taldren CA and Taldren Korea were child companies of Taldren.

When the parent company Taldren fell, the children had to fall as well.

Erik has already stated this as fact and is going to come up with another "company name".

People, can we please get our facts straight before posting speculation?

Regards,

Taldren Korea still existed at the time I posted the item...Mr. Bethke DID say that he would rename it however.  Is that clear enough for you?

Here it is more clearly...Taldren and Taldren Korea were started up as separate companies, BUT connected via name, rights, and Mr. Bethke himself.  Now that Taldren in CA is shut down for the most part, AND Taldren Korea is built up independently in Korea, Taldren Korea has no real connections to the original Taldren in CA, and hence Mr. Bethke has no reason to continue it as Taldren Korea, and indeed has stated he will change it's name.

Thanks for trying to debunk me...but I hope I have shown I'm not entirely ignorant.  Yes, I've read the thread...I still haven't heard if Taldren Korea's name has been changed officially yet, if it hasn't, indeed, then, there is STILL a Taldren Korea...just out of interest.

Sorry this is a cached site, but it's hard to draw up information...

http://216.109.117.135/search/cache?p=taldren+korea&ei=UTF-8&cop=mss&u=www.worldcybergame.com/confer_shcase/d_main.asp&w=taldren+korea&d=C17D1DBA61&c=610&yc=46039&icp=1

Erik Bethke          CEO / Taldren, Inc., & Taldren-Korea, Ltd.
   
  Erik Bethke has been developing games for the last nine years. During this time he has worked up the ranks from a junior engineering position to the owner and CEO of Taldren. At Taldren, he is responsible for overall project development, new business development, directing future R&D expenditures, and leading internal employee growth programs. He has won contracts for Taldren with top publishers such as Activision and Interplay. Projects managed at Taldren include the Starfleet Command real-time tactical starship simulator. He has acted as the lead designer and producer/executive producer throughout the series including SFC 1, SFC: Neutral Zone, SFC II: Empires at War and SFC: Orion Pirates, and Starfleet Command 3. This series to date has sold well over 600,000 units. Taldren is now near to releasing Black9 an original sci-fi action/RPG for the PC and Xbox Prior to founding Taldren Inc., Erik has worked for both large publishers and small developers of the game industry to gain a broad foundation to build Taldren upon. Projects included I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream for Cyberdreams, PlanetNET for MPGNet, and Caesars Palace Windows 95 for Interplay.
   
     
 Accredited Game Titles   
  Black 9, Starfleet Command III, Orion Pirates, Starfleet Command II, Starfleet Command I, Caesars Palace Windows 95, PlanetNET, I Have No Mouth And I Must Scream
   
     
 Keynote Abstract   
  Design Patterns of Online Games
Online games are still in the beginning stages of a form of entertainment media, they range from Battle.net to Lineage to avatar sites to Star Wars Galaxies and even to eBay.
Already there have been so many successful and not-so-successful online games that have been released throughout the world; surely there must be some emerging patterns of what makes an online gaming experience a success or a failure.
Are these patterns merely technical features, gameplay features, business models, cultural differences or all of the above?
This talk will attempt to determine if there are already solid patterns of design in our emergent industry and end with some predictions of what the future trends of online games will play like.

On a sidenote however, this is UNRELATED to Taldren korea, Mr. Bethke, or others, at least probably...but get a load of this...

http://www.taldren.co.kr/

No idea what it says though...on the otherhand, who knows, I actually think it's some website selling company that is trying to sell Taldren.co.kr in Korea.

No need to try and "debunk" anything, Dash ole Son...

Your typing on the keyboard says it all - which is to say you are, once again - WRONG.

I love how some people think they are so much more informed when the reality is many who ARE in the know are laughing at those individuals who purport such knowledge.

I am going to say nothing more on this subject. If you can't understand simple business models, then it's pointless to try and explain.

Regards,

Okay, I'm wrong...

However, maybe you should classify how wrong or right I am...afterall, by claiming I'm wrong...you're also claiming Mr. Bethke's comments (on the thread taken from where he explains Taldren being taken off) as well as his article and interview also wrong.......So perhaps you should specify....

Some interesting headlines...

News & Headlines provided by 
 
Taldren Shuts Down
By Chris Faylor of Gamerfeed
Published 11:20 AM PDT June 25, 2004

The developer behing Starfleet Command and Black 9 ceases U.S. operations, looks to reopen in Korea.

  ADVERTISEMENT
 
 
Taldren, developer of Starfleet Command, has apparently shut down operations in the United States. Initially revealed on the company's message board, the forum was recently taken offline for "network maintenance." Starfleet Universe has since provided a summary of the postings made by Taldren staff, which yields some hope for the company.

According to the staff, the final nail in Taldren's coffin was delivered when Majesco quietly cancelled Black 9 last September. Without any other titles in active development, the company was unable to remain open.

Though the situation is less than ideal, it seems that all is not lost. Erik Bethke, Taldren's CEO, plans to open "an incarnation of Taldren" in South Korea and develop a myth-based massively multiplayer online role-playing game. As for the Taldren forums, efforts are currently underway to relocate the forum database to a new home, located at Dynaverse.net.

http://gamesdomain.yahoo.com/article/28032

An incarnation of Taldren will survive in South Korea. Taldren's CEO Erik Bethke has already struck roots in Korea and is forging plans to develope a myth-themed MMORPG.

http://sfc3.filefront.com/file.news?ID=10849


http://games.techwhack.com/archives/2004/06/24/taldren-shuts/

6/24/2004
Taldren shuts
Filed under: General news? serioussam @ 10:30 pm
Taldren, developer of the Starfleet Command series, has shut down. The story clarifies that Black 9 was indeed cancelled.
?An incarnation of Taldren will survive in South Korea. Taldren?s CEO Erik Bethke has already struck roots in Korea and is forging plans to develope [sic] a myth-themed MMORPG.?

Here it doesn't really state the difference between Taldren-Korea and Taldren

http://www.kgda.or.kr/kgdc/kgdc2003/kgdc_spkintro.htm

The thing is about a tenth of the way down the page about Erik...

http://www.gamedreamz.com/index.cgi?m=stories&s=read&id=1348

My point, I might be wrong on some of it...but with all the sources pointing towards something...

I admitted I was wrong on what you said I was...HOWEVER, for the most part...I am correct...

[Azrael]

Bah.

Taldren.

I liked their game.

They themselves had some serious issues though.

I mean, what kind of a company threatens to sue their own player base for using a "betabuild" they never should have made public in the first place?

That Toast guy's going to need his own boards.

He was supposed to be an "Admin" on the Taldren Forums, but frequently bashed players and was rude to anyone who disagreed with him.

Pretty funny, now that he's lost his little "Taldren Crown" he's gone and set up his own shop with message boards.

Well, guess he's having the time of his life now, surrounding himself with people who share the same opinions as him.

That's one "bad egg" that won't be missed.

That's another strange thing about Taldren.

They're "Tester Team" was all a bunch of unpaid volounteers.

Now these people contributed to official patches which improved the game, for which I'm grateful.

However, too many of them were given "Admin Status" on Taldren's boards, and allowed to roam and abuse Forum members at their leisure.

They even had one guy (Pestilence, I think), actively searching the Dynaverse and Gamespy looking for people he could threaten to sue on behalf of Taldren (even though he didn't work for them)???

Talk about a little "power" going to your head!

I don't care if Paramount, Activision, or whoever was pressuring Taldren to release the game in time for the Nemesis Star Trek Film.

The fact that they allowed themselves to be bullied into releasing an unfinished product (and it is an unfinished product.  Check your files.  You have Cardassian and Species S Club 7 hulls in your files but not in your game) just shows the calibre of the company.

I mean, if you were commissioned to make a bus, and the brakes weren't fitted, but the Commissioning Company insisted you put it on the street, would you do it?

Of course not.

What people are forgetting is that when told to release an unfinished product to the market, Taldren could have always said no, we value our customers more than that.

I thank Taldren for the game.

I thank Taldren for little else.

With their ridiculous threats to sue their customers they basically sowed the seeds for a player rift in the Community that may never heal.

Azrael

[Chris SI]

People just can't seem to let things go.

Its a damn shame.

[Age]

    Here it is SkyFlyer you figure it all this Korean language means and see what they are doing.

[Lieutenant_Q]

See...you got it all wrong...Taldren just couldnt afford the Rent in Southern California.
 
Unless your making millions a year...Rent is just too much. 

[SkyFlyer]

Uhm... Age, no offense but this post is two months old in 3 days... and what do you mean by your post?